Todays NYTimes: "Established" artists use BM as a

DoctorIknow · Post by **DoctorIknow** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:23 pm

An interesting NYTimes read today (Culture Warriorsâ€™ (Serious) Fun House) about how one famous and one sort of famous artist came to BM, "a heavily branded, drug-friendly, clothing-optional convention of 50,000 men and women" (as the author of the article,ERIC KONIGSBERG states) and bascially used it (including video) as a backdrop for their art project, which is now on exhibit in Long Island City.

The "branding" and commoditization of "the festival" (as it's called in the article) excites so many in the eplaya that I urge you to follow the link, read the three pages, and add more fuel to your debates, which are some of the most sincere and thoughtful I've read here. Thanks for those posts!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/arts/ ... odayspaper

The above link may not be effective after it is no longer "...todayspaper" as in the above web address, but I think the article could be found by date (it says Sept. 25 in the byline) or by the article title or author as listed in this post. If it changes, I'll post it in this thread...

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:46 pm

Mr. Smith and Mr. Kelley, who were discussing their process while watching a crew set up their installation in Long Island City, began trading critiques of the festivalâ€™s notion of itself as a countercultural event and agreed that it was pretty lame.

â€œThey say itâ€™s radical self-expression,â€

dr.placebo · Post by **dr.placebo** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:57 pm

[quote]But the sight of a 5-foot-6 hirsute baby in Crocs barely seemed to register. Either the crowd was truly oblivious, or assumed that the man embodying the persona was just your average fetishist setting free his fantasy self. â€œFor the most part everybody looked right through me,â€

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:39 am

HEY!

i'm from WESTERN NEW YORK.

do not group me with those downstate motherfuckers...

them Manhattanites think we're all a bunch of gun-totin', snow-mobiling, just this side of deliverance, back woods hill-billies.

and they would be right.

Artemis · Post by **Artemis** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:16 am

I was confused about the "branding" comment when I read that this weekend. Did anyone understand what was meant by that?

NB: I reside in Queens, but have family upstate and their neighbors sound quite a bit like Simon's description...

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:11 am

Hopefully it will keep the extra fratboys away.

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:25 am

doubtful ... frat boys don't read articles about art ... they only hear "naked girls" and "party"....

i just think some people like to criticize anything that gets a lot of attention but doesn't quite work for them, making the event the problem - rather than themselves.

which is fine ... whatever keeps 'em happy ...

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:28 am

dr.placebo wrote: All of those hip, snobbish, elitist, New York artsy types sound the same, too. So there!

you forgot, "Jewish" too!

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:37 am

really, zeusy, if you must be obnoxious, could you PLEASE find a way to be clever or entertaining when you do?

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:40 am

of course you did not read the article,

Mr. Smith characterized his upbringing as â€œChicago, south side, Jewish. My father was in real estate.â€

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:00 am

what you posted had nothing to do with the article.

you suggested that all "hip, snobbish, elitist, New York artsy types" who diss burning man are jewish.

i submit that this is not the case ... or, if it is, it can not be proven by the existence of one (mr. smith).

and you're still boring ..... Zzzzzzzzzz .... you and DVD ......... sometimes i think you are one and the same.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:16 am

littleflower wrote:what you posted had nothing to do with the article.

you suggested that all "hip, snobbish, elitist, New York artsy types" who diss burning man are jewish.

NO I never said that they were "hip" or "elitist" or New York Artsy Types"!

But I do find it funny they he had to describe himself as "Jewish"! He labeled himself.

Because, if he does that, then he can get accepted by the New York Jewish art community.

I tell people in new york i'm jewish. it really helps your career. Ask Michael Richards. He only got the job on Seinfeld because everyone on the show thought he was jewish! And Jerry Seinfeld is a bigot!

DVD is pro Islam, I'm anti-judasim, christianism and Islamism. Curse of humanity! Remember that!

Actually, I was trolling for Simon, but littleflower showed up!

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:17 am

littleflower wrote:.... you and DVD ......... sometimes i think you are one and the same.

If not, they should merge. Think of the overhead they'd save.

YOu do know about hte ignore feature, littleflower, don't you. Of course, my peace of mind is hard to come by, so I use it a lot, but I can respect people who don't's integrity.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:20 am

theCryptofishist wrote: Of course, my peace of mind is hard to come by,

is that the same for your "peace of" ass too!

Loosen up!

and thanks for not plonking me fun!

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:21 am

Oh, and I have to say, that of course "Established" Artists in the NYC scene would diss the burn. We didn't go to art school and learn how to peddle all that bs that keeps the scene there running. Our artists' statements don't read like some dreary combination of Foucoult and Jay Cees. And we don't buy into that whole pile of steaming crap that they live their lives around.
And not only are we percieved as a threat, we may actually be one. We make art that's fun and happy and amazing and appealing. Most of them can barely lay claim to one of those qualities.

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:21 am

fishy, i tend to pick and choose stuff, so zeus doesn't bug me much. i just felt like responding because it makes me cringe when he gets into it with simon ... sorta like david vs. goliath, except david has only a pea-shooter, and very few peas ...

i do like seeing what simon comes up with, though....

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:24 am

theCryptofishist wrote:Oh, and I have to say, that of course "Established" Artists in the NYC scene would diss the burn. We didn't go to art school and learn how to peddle all that bs that keeps the scene there running. Our artists' statements don't read like some dreary combination of Foucoult and Jay Cees. And we don't buy into that whole pile of steaming crap that they live their lives around.
And not only are we percieved as a threat, we may actually be one. We make art that's fun and happy and amazing and appealing. Most of them can barely lay claim to one of those qualities.

amen to that! it's true for the established LA art scene, as well. the anti-establishment has become the establishment .... funny how that happens.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:24 am

littleflower wrote:fishy, i tend to pick and choose stuff, so zeus doesn't bug me much. i just felt like responding because it makes me cringe when he gets into it with simon ... sorta like david vs. goliath, except david has only a pea-shooter, and very few peas ...

i do like seeing what simon comes up with, though....

It's because david is cut! How dare you dis david!

And I don't know what the hell you mean!

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:24 am

Well, I just wanted to be sure that you knew you had options.
Me, I think my doctor orders me to plonk for the sake of my blood pressure.

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:26 am

theCryptofishist wrote:Well, I just wanted to be sure that you knew you had options.
Me, I think my doctor orders me to plonk for the sake of my blood pressure.

thanks .... and take care of your bp! you aren't missing anything.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:27 am

(((littleflower)))

DoctorIknow · Post by **DoctorIknow** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:27 am

From the article:

[quote]â€œFor the most part everybody looked right through me,â€

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:37 am

theCryptofishist wrote:Oh, and I have to say, that of course "Established" Artists in the NYC scene would diss the burn. We didn't go to art school and learn how to peddle all that bs that keeps the scene there running. Our artists' statements don't read like some dreary combination of Foucoult and Jay Cees. And we don't buy into that whole pile of steaming crap that they live their lives around.
And not only are we percieved as a threat, we may actually be one. We make art that's fun and happy and amazing and appealing. Most of them can barely lay claim to one of those qualities.

Sorry most artists in nyc love burning man and are jewish! So there!

Most of them don't ever say that they are jewish and feel it is not important and should never come up. Except those that want to profit or use biased labels for their own advancement.

The Michael Richards exposure was a lesson for people like Seinfeld. Hire people based on their talents not their religion. It was a big embarrassment and exposed him and the producers as a bunch of bigots and true un-americans.

And of course, I would never lie about me being Jewish though I do have a running joke with a jewish friend about it. I am quite proud of being a indigenous Hellenic!

trolling can be fun you never know what you'll hook!

AIIZ

Remember if I don't sign off with the AIIZ i'm not being serious. Gotch you again littleflower.

Ps- I don't think Simon would appreciate you call his dick a pea shooter or Goliath!

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:44 am

Apollonaris Zeus wrote: Ps- I don't think Simon would appreciate you call his dick a pea shooter or Goliath!

Well maybe he calls his manhood, "Goliath"

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:55 am

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:54 pm

All of those hip, snobbish, elitist, New York artsy types sound the same, too. So there!

Sounds like he's only elaborating what for many is quite obvious.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Still, there does seem to be more than a bit of hand-biting hypocrisy in his statement.

fciron · Post by **fciron** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:21 pm

Huh, the weird summation of Burning Man comes from the article's author, not the artists, perhaps he is referring to the Burning Man brand when he says heavily branded. I think his description is out of whack in lots of ways, for instance, theme camps are not primarily tribal and no one has actually explained why Burning Man was the ideal backdrop.

I think it might be a very entertaining installation, but it doesn't sound like it has much to say about Burning Man.

Sorry that no one over-reacted to your giant baby outfit. You're right, it's because we're terrible people...or maybe it's because radical self-expression means that you can dress like a giant baby if you want to. It's really hard to mess with people's expectations in a place where most of us are spending the week trying not to have any.

and sculpture dude, READ THE SURVIVAL GUIDE!
'cause after we go home, all that's left is desert.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:07 pm

Sorry that no one over-reacted to your giant baby outfit.

There's often a fine line between outrageously stupid (in the best sense) and painfully lame. The lameness sometimes kicks in when the one doing it is the only one who 'gets' the inside joke.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:13 pm

"Heavily branded"?

I wouldn't get into that. But whatever floats your boat.

accordionMan · Post by **accordionMan** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:18 pm

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:Sorry most artists in nyc love burning man and are jewish! So there!

I totally agree. Perhaps it comes from our descendants wandering the desert for 40 years... that we love getting back to our roots.