Tech Question...

All things outside of Burning Man.
User avatar
ygmir
Posts: 29386
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq
Location: nevada county

Post by ygmir » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:28 am

hahaa, yeah, this is the point, it all sounds like the teacher on a Charlie Brown cartoon (how old am I? haha).

I've just not spent enough time with electronics, to get all this.
and, at 10K for the solar system, am really not wanting the "square smoke ring" thing......

Good info here, so much to digest, let alone comprehend.
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan

User avatar
Lassen Forge
Posts: 5320
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:35 pm
Location: Where it's always... Wednesday. Don't lose your head over it.

Post by Lassen Forge » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:55 am

Ma Fwa, Fwa fwa mwa mwa mwa... Fwa mwa mwa fwa mwa...

I think... THINK... the only component you would damage would be the cheapy 300W inverter. It all depends how much "backflow" current it can handle. It may be a non-issue, but the risk would be in feeding the 3KW INTO the inverter, not the other way - after all, the system is designed to be live on the grid...

If the inverter could handle it (and off the top of my head I can't see why it wouldn't, really) then you'll be kinda home free.

Remember - the system is looking for 110V at 60 HZ to detect to sync the Freq. of the system... you could almost, I'm guessing, segregate it through a transformer or something. Damn, it's been too long...

You could do a smoke test - - make a double-plugged cord, plug one end into the wall, the other into the inverter, see what happens. At best, nothing, at worst, you fry the inverter and/or pop the breaker but then you know. And inverters like I'm talking about are relatively cheap - say $30-ish... beats $10K.

User avatar
ygmir
Posts: 29386
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq
Location: nevada county

Post by ygmir » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:04 am

hhhm,m\
\\

good idea..........I even have a 400w inverter from my MV..........

thanks, BBS..........
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan

User avatar
kman
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:27 pm
Location: Studio City, CA

Post by kman » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:55 pm

Trishntek wrote:
can't sit still wrote:Plasma kicks ass on flour and LED;
http://news.cnet.com/Luxims-tiny-but-po ... 34653.html
The one question begging an answer would be, "What is the life expectancy of this plasma lightbulb?" That is why plasma TV's went by the wayside. Even though they offered better images their 10k hour life span made them impractical.
FWIW, you're using outdated information, or a typo. Modern plasma TV's have a half-life rating of approx 100,000 hours. That's over 50 years given common usage patterns of 3 hours per day. Even if you run it 6 hours per day, I'm pretty comfortable with a 25 year life-span of a device I will probably replace in no less than 10 years.

User avatar
gyre
Posts: 15457
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Post by gyre » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:58 pm

Reducing brightness typically increases life and sharpness, as with crts.

User avatar
Trishntek
Posts: 3463
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:27 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Retrofrolic!
Location: Ventura, CA, USA
Contact:

Post by Trishntek » Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:50 pm

kman wrote:
Trishntek wrote:
can't sit still wrote:Plasma kicks ass on flour and LED;
http://news.cnet.com/Luxims-tiny-but-po ... 34653.html
The one question begging an answer would be, "What is the life expectancy of this plasma lightbulb?" That is why plasma TV's went by the wayside. Even though they offered better images their 10k hour life span made them impractical.
FWIW, you're using outdated information, or a typo. Modern plasma TV's have a half-life rating of approx 100,000 hours. That's over 50 years given common usage patterns of 3 hours per day. Even if you run it 6 hours per day, I'm pretty comfortable with a 25 year life-span of a device I will probably replace in no less than 10 years.
I did not know that! I have seen some high dollar medical imaging plasma screens fade away within three years. But they are used nearly 24/7.
RETROFROLIC, the place of Pink, Pain and Pleasure!
http://www.retrofrolic.com
Some call me Tnt,,,, works for me!

User avatar
Trishntek
Posts: 3463
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:27 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Retrofrolic!
Location: Ventura, CA, USA
Contact:

Post by Trishntek » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:59 pm

In my search for batteries, it seems the 6V/395Ah battery has the most bang for the bucks found so far:

http://store.solar-electric.com/cr395amdecyb.html

121 pounds each is pushing the limits for portability. But two of those would sufficiently run a 750W system. One of them would be enough for Burning Man! $1200 for four of them is the best price per watt I've found so far.
RETROFROLIC, the place of Pink, Pain and Pleasure!
http://www.retrofrolic.com
Some call me Tnt,,,, works for me!

User avatar
unjonharley
Posts: 10294
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Elliot's naked bycycel repair
Location: Salem Or.

Post by unjonharley » Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:53 am

We have a state surplus barn here in Salem.. They dump new batteries like that for half$..

User avatar
unjonharley
Posts: 10294
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Elliot's naked bycycel repair
Location: Salem Or.

Post by unjonharley » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:22 pm

What is the radius of 200 feet of wire in a circle?

Dumb down to me OK?

User avatar
gyre
Posts: 15457
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Post by gyre » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:26 pm

Diameter is 63.66197723.

Half is the radius.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_fi ... cumference

User avatar
Trishntek
Posts: 3463
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:27 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Retrofrolic!
Location: Ventura, CA, USA
Contact:

Post by Trishntek » Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:23 pm

it's all how you slice the pi
RETROFROLIC, the place of Pink, Pain and Pleasure!
http://www.retrofrolic.com
Some call me Tnt,,,, works for me!

User avatar
Elorrum
Posts: 5412
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:09 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Baby fell in the Bucket
Location: Reno

Post by Elorrum » Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:26 pm

unjonharley wrote:What is the radius of 200 feet of wire in a circle?

Dumb down to me OK?
circumference is pi D.

D = 2 x radius

200 = 3.14 D

D= 200 / 3.14

D= 63.69

r = 31.84

User avatar
Trishntek
Posts: 3463
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:27 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Retrofrolic!
Location: Ventura, CA, USA
Contact:

NEC grounding requirements

Post by Trishntek » Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:44 pm

So I go to LOWES for a grounding rod. Call me stupid,,,,,, EIGHT FEET? Really? I don't wanna poke a hole in my sewer or something like that and I always thought 3-5 feet was sufficient. Is it relative to the diameter of the rod used? There are several websites willing to sell you the seemingly "proprietary" code book of the NEC. Anybody know? I'll keep lookin',,,
RETROFROLIC, the place of Pink, Pain and Pleasure!
http://www.retrofrolic.com
Some call me Tnt,,,, works for me!

User avatar
Trishntek
Posts: 3463
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:27 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Retrofrolic!
Location: Ventura, CA, USA
Contact:

Post by Trishntek » Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:55 pm

Okay, I found it,,,, sheeesh,,,,,

http://www.transorbelectrical.com/pq/te ... dRodR8.pdf

Stupid
RETROFROLIC, the place of Pink, Pain and Pleasure!
http://www.retrofrolic.com
Some call me Tnt,,,, works for me!

User avatar
ygmir
Posts: 29386
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq
Location: nevada county

Re: NEC grounding requirements

Post by ygmir » Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:45 pm

Trishntek wrote:So I go to LOWES for a grounding rod. Call me stupid,,,,,, EIGHT FEET? Really? I don't wanna poke a hole in my sewer or something like that and I always thought 3-5 feet was sufficient. Is it relative to the diameter of the rod used? There are several websites willing to sell you the seemingly "proprietary" code book of the NEC. Anybody know? I'll keep lookin',,,
I think you can put said ground rod in horizontally.
IIRC, it needs about 18" of cover, well tamped soil. the deeper the better, though.
But, it's my memory, so......
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan

User avatar
Kinetik V
Posts: 1653
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:43 am
Burning Since: 2002
Camp Name: Sanctuary West

Re: NEC grounding requirements

Post by Kinetik V » Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:57 am

8 foot long, straight down, clamped properly. No shortcuts, no compromise, a good solid ground is absolutely CRITICAL and will serve you well for years to come.

Yes driving that rod is going to be a pain in the rear. But this is one thing you just gotta do.
Kinetic V
~~~~~~
I bring order to chaos. And I bring chaos to those who deserve it, wherever that may be.

User avatar
Elderberry
Moderator
Posts: 14699
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Mudskipper Cafe
Location: Palm Springs
Contact:

Post by Elderberry » Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:21 am

So speaking of grounding rods, does anyone use them with their generators at BM?

JK
JK
Image
http://www.mudskippercafe.com
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me

User avatar
JStep
Posts: 776
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:19 pm
Burning Since: 2011
Location: Omaha, NE
Contact:

Post by JStep » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:42 pm

gyre wrote:So what happened with Y2K?
Lots of IT people had to go to work at midnight on NYE to watch nothing happen, thus ruining their quasi-millennial NYE celebrations.
~JStep
Nebraska Regional Contact
Tallgrass Burners - The Omaha and Nebraska Area Burning Man Regional Group
http://www.tallgrassburners.com
Email: nebraska [at] burningman.com

User avatar
motskyroonmatick
Posts: 1960
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:37 am
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: B.R.C. Welding&Repair
Location: Aurora Oregon

Re: NEC grounding requirements

Post by motskyroonmatick » Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:11 pm

Kinetic V wrote:8 foot long, straight down, clamped properly. No shortcuts, no compromise, a good solid ground is absolutely CRITICAL and will serve you well for years to come.

Yes driving that rod is going to be a pain in the rear. But this is one thing you just gotta do.
If this is going to be inspected one thing I have had an inspector look for is mushrooming of the top of the ground rod to make sure it is full length and has been pounded in. It is advisable to put the ground clamp on before pounding so that you don't have to battle the mushroomed top of the ground rod to get it on.

I have had very good luck pounding ground rods in to hard ground by adding water to the ground as you pound the rod down. It seems to follow the rod down and lubricate the soil making it easier for the rod to go through the soil and not bind up on the way down.

One can generally assume the relative location of the sewer line leaving the house by looking at the plumbing under the house. Generally it is off of one of the bathrooms. Usually the septic tank is off set from the house a fair distance.

You might call for locates if you are uncertain of where your power, phone or cable enter the house. If any of that comes in underground it would be wise to do so. Just tell them you are getting preconstruction locates for planning purposes. This can lead to trouble if you are doing non permitted construction as the city will come out to locate water, sewer and storm if you are in an area with those services. It seems to me that you are not in one of those areas if my memory serves me correctly.

Can you take a picture of the location so we can have a look at it? 1000 words and all...
Black Rock City Welding & Repair. The Night Time Warming Station. iGNiTE! Bar.

Card Carrying Member BRCCP.

When you pass the 4th "bridge out!" sign; the flaming death is all yours.-Knowmad-

User avatar
motskyroonmatick
Posts: 1960
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:37 am
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: B.R.C. Welding&Repair
Location: Aurora Oregon

Post by motskyroonmatick » Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:20 pm

FYI I have excavated a galvanized steel ground rod before and found the entire core to be oxidized. If this is a long term thing it may be better to go with the copper ground rod. I believe there is also a material that can be mixed up and mixed in with the soil if you are burying the ground rod in a trench. It is some times used in arid areas to provide better grounding to the soil. I have no idea what it is specifically though.
Black Rock City Welding & Repair. The Night Time Warming Station. iGNiTE! Bar.

Card Carrying Member BRCCP.

When you pass the 4th "bridge out!" sign; the flaming death is all yours.-Knowmad-

User avatar
Trishntek
Posts: 3463
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:27 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Retrofrolic!
Location: Ventura, CA, USA
Contact:

Post by Trishntek » Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:57 pm

So what if I simply clamp to an outdoor faucet pipe? This unit is portable and not necessarily a permanent power plant. I built it primarily for BM, but might as well use it here and keep it exercised. I'll take some pictures and post them soon.
RETROFROLIC, the place of Pink, Pain and Pleasure!
http://www.retrofrolic.com
Some call me Tnt,,,, works for me!

User avatar
motskyroonmatick
Posts: 1960
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:37 am
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: B.R.C. Welding&Repair
Location: Aurora Oregon

Post by motskyroonmatick » Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:28 pm

I've lived in several houses where the panel was grounded to the metal water supply line to the house. It was a very common practice.

I think it would be ok to ground to the faucet just as long as you know for sure that there is continuous metal pipe for quite a ways under ground.

If it were my place I would do the ground rod thing just to be sure.

I'm curious to see your power plant and will be reserving more comments until seeing it.
Black Rock City Welding & Repair. The Night Time Warming Station. iGNiTE! Bar.

Card Carrying Member BRCCP.

When you pass the 4th "bridge out!" sign; the flaming death is all yours.-Knowmad-

User avatar
Trishntek
Posts: 3463
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:27 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Retrofrolic!
Location: Ventura, CA, USA
Contact:

Portable solar power supply

Post by Trishntek » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:24 pm

Hopefully this url works.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=4 ... 0031825783

If the pics cannot be accessed, let me know and I will find another way.
RETROFROLIC, the place of Pink, Pain and Pleasure!
http://www.retrofrolic.com
Some call me Tnt,,,, works for me!

User avatar
Trishntek
Posts: 3463
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:27 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Retrofrolic!
Location: Ventura, CA, USA
Contact:

Post by Trishntek » Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:41 pm

Let's try this:

Image
A small BBQ cover works perfectly! I grommeted the holes through which the upper bracket attaches to the tool cart's top rail.
Image
Four 6 volt golf cart batteries in series rest on the bottom shelf. Note the grounding clamp above the wheel.
Image
This bracket is designed to slide and pivot for sun angle adjustment.
Image
Image
The inverter is too thick to fit in the drawer, but the top shelf is covered anyway. I could have gotten away with a single negative terminal, but this provides a way to disconnect each component independently.
Image
The controller has built in safety controls and the inverter has built-in GFI. This particular brand of inverter is the only one I've seen with a full TWO year warranty.
RETROFROLIC, the place of Pink, Pain and Pleasure!
http://www.retrofrolic.com
Some call me Tnt,,,, works for me!

User avatar
Trishntek
Posts: 3463
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:27 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Retrofrolic!
Location: Ventura, CA, USA
Contact:

Post by Trishntek » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:51 pm

Yup, got over zealous on the grounding. Those terminals must be isolated from one another via the cart chassis. I removed those interconnecting ground cables and everything is tickadeeboo.
RETROFROLIC, the place of Pink, Pain and Pleasure!
http://www.retrofrolic.com
Some call me Tnt,,,, works for me!

User avatar
motskyroonmatick
Posts: 1960
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:37 am
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: B.R.C. Welding&Repair
Location: Aurora Oregon

Post by motskyroonmatick » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:57 pm

I take it tickadeeboo means it is working great. :)

Ok you are leagues ahead of me with solar. Carry on!

I really like that set up and could definitely put that to use. Cool.
Black Rock City Welding & Repair. The Night Time Warming Station. iGNiTE! Bar.

Card Carrying Member BRCCP.

When you pass the 4th "bridge out!" sign; the flaming death is all yours.-Knowmad-

Post Reply

Return to “Open Discussion”