9/11

All things outside of Burning Man.

What really happened?

I tend to believe the official story, more or less.
14
23%
I tend to believe the official story, more or less.
14
23%
I think the gov't knew, but allowed it to happen.
7
11%
I think the gov't knew, but allowed it to happen.
7
11%
I think it was an inside job.
7
11%
I think it was an inside job.
7
11%
Other (explain)
3
5%
Other (explain)
3
5%
 
Total votes: 62

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ygmir
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Post by ygmir » Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:33 am

neon tetra wrote:What I mean is exactly what I said. I don't see how you can "love" people who have murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians for no good reason other than the fact that they were told to by crooks & liars.

Our soldiers haven't fought an honorable war since WWII.
so, you say no "innocents" were killed in WWII?
Or, was that just "ok"?

How do you define "honorable war"?


to hold these soldiers in contempt, as people and individuals, is wrong, IMHO.

I totally believe, you're entitled to your opinion, and, honor that.
but, if you "hate" on our soldiers, well, ............
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Post by neon tetra » Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:45 am

I personally think they went too far in WWII, especially w/ Hiroshima & Nagasaki. As well as some French cities that were bombed after the war was pretty much won.

But here's an interesting fact - despite our so-called "precision" weapons, the percentage of civilian casualties in wars have been increasing for every war since WWI.
Right now, the majority of people killed are civilians.

The real heroes in this day & age are the ones who refuse to fight. And the ones who expose all the bullshit that is going on in our names and with our $$.
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Post by cowboyangel » Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:23 pm

Glory be! I just heard our el-presidente once more affirm the errant message that "Afghanistan was the staging ground for 9/11".

I wonder if he found the cave where they manufactured tons of nano-thermite.

I wonder if he found the headquarters where they planted the sophisticated auto-pilot navigational systems aboard all doomed 9/11 flights.

I wonder if he found the receipts for the inside stock options trades on United and American made just days before 9/11.

I wonder if he ever consulted an independent physicist to verify whether or not the building collapses bore any resemblance to the laws of physics.

I wonder if ever heard the cries of the 9/11 victims families calling for a new investigation.

I wonder which master this president serves, because as I see it, it surely ain't the master who Martin Luther King or Thurgood Marshall or Malcolm X served. Mr. Obama? Time to quit smokin the smog of lies being wreathed around your head and show some courage. Lead or be forgotten.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by myburningdesire » Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:00 pm

There is no honor in war, and yes, I love my soldiers. NeonTetra, I disagree with your viewpoint but that is your own.
Our current government and the bodies that fill it, have to go. They are the cancer that is eating america........

FUCK CANCER!

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Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:23 pm

myburningdesire wrote:Our current government and the bodies that fill it, have to go.
please define your terms
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Post by myburningdesire » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:38 pm

Clarify Fishy?

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Post by theCryptofishist » Sat Dec 04, 2010 9:33 am

What is "our current government"?
What is "the bodies that fill it"?
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Post by myburningdesire » Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:12 pm

I am not pleased with the bureaucracy and the politicians. Nothing gets done and they get paid to do nothing. I think they have long ago quit representing the people and instead represent their best interests and the interests of the companies with the most money.

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Post by ygmir » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:50 am

myburningdesire wrote:I am not pleased with the bureaucracy and the politicians. Nothing gets done and they get paid to do nothing. I think they have long ago quit representing the people and instead represent their best interests and the interests of the companies with the most money.





+1
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:28 am

ygmir wrote:
myburningdesire wrote:I am not pleased with the bureaucracy and the politicians. Nothing gets done and they get paid to do nothing. I think they have long ago quit representing the people and instead represent their best interests and the interests of the companies with the most money.





spoken like a true arm-chair quarterback.

blame the cogs, not the machine.....Typical.

Hate the game, not the hard working players who DO have your best interests at heart.


civil servants means JUST THAT, they work hard to serve the public's needs and are always criticized, never thanked.


think about it next time you flush your toilet, pick up your mail, drive down the street or do ANYTHING that normally seems transparent, because its always there, and you take it for granted.


stop whining and do something about it if you don't like it, that's what ACTIVISM is for.
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Post by Dr. Pyro » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:30 am

Well said Simon. It reminds me of the of the idea that the only thing worse than taxation without representation is taxation with representation.

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Post by ygmir » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:40 am

the politicians, have little to do with the toilets flushing, roads being open, etc.
That, is done, hands on, by our wonderful "civil servants" and public employees.

the issue is the D.C.-ites, IMHO, and, where the criticism lies.

and, yes, activism is the only way to change that.
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:48 am

your pitchfork, or mine?
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Post by Roberto Dobbisano » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:50 am

I got Dibbs on Joe Lieberman.
"10 principles? you cant HANDLE the 10 principles..."

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Post by ygmir » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:21 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:your pitchfork, or mine?
It doesn't really matter, I bet we wear the same size dress.

Image

I think Lieberman would be tough and stringy........
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Post by theCryptofishist » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:50 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:civil servants means JUST THAT, they work hard to serve the public's needs and are always criticized, never thanked.
Thank you, Simon.

As for you, Ygmir and MyBurningDesire, I think a temporary plonk is in order.
I have great respect for my co-workers, protecting the public interest when they are often tagged as "it" for the blame game, have to work with shrinking budgets and increased responcibilities, maintain a high level of skill and integrity, and the list goes on. It makes me angry to see them dismissed so lightly and ignorantly.
See you later.
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"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Post by ygmir » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:18 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
Simon of the Playa wrote:civil servants means JUST THAT, they work hard to serve the public's needs and are always criticized, never thanked.
Thank you, Simon.

As for you, Ygmir and MyBurningDesire, I think a temporary plonk is in order.
I have great respect for my co-workers, protecting the public interest when they are often tagged as "it" for the blame game, have to work with shrinking budgets and increased responcibilities, maintain a high level of skill and integrity, and the list goes on. It makes me angry to see them dismissed so lightly and ignorantly.
See you later.
you seem to have missed, my pointed attempt, at not dissing those "on the ground".......the ones who do the work, and get things done.
my problem, is with those in "the ivory tower" in D.C.

ETA: quote:
the politicians, have little to do with the toilets flushing, roads being open, etc.
That, is done, hands on, by our wonderful "civil servants" and public employees.

the issue is the D.C.-ites, IMHO, and, where the criticism lies.

and, yes, activism is the only way to change that.
_________________

and, if that's all it takes to get "plonked" then, fine.......And, don't feel you're doing me a favor, by "unplonking" me..........I don't take your actions as a "punishment".

of course, I suppose, this won't get read anyway.
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Post by myburningdesire » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:56 am

Please point out to me where I lumped civil servants into my complaint? My dislike is for the politicians, not civil servants and engineers that make things possible. For you to assume I was lumping these people in with politicians was unfair.

Well I guess we can all agree to disagree. <3

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SOAP BOX TIME!

Post by Simon of the Playa » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:10 am

last time i checked, politicians were civil servants.


ask not what your playa can do for you, ask what YOU can do your playa.


Police sign on to PROTECT AND SERVE


some of them end up not doing this so well.....fine

they will lose their jobs or the respect of the community soon enough.

Politicians, well, SOME actually want to Serve, that is the highest calling, and why take a shitty salary (in comparison to the private sector) unless one has "Rangell's Disease" (never met a camera he didn't like) or is power hungry (McCain and Palin) or Both (Palin)

Jerry Brown comes to mind as well as Richard Lugar.

Both are men of Integrity and a Deep Commitment to the Constitution and our Nation.

One's a Liberal, a Democrat and from California

One is a Republican, Fiscally Responsible, and from Indiana.

yet i hold both in High Regard, because they are passionate, determined and strive for the better good as they believe it to be, on a daily basis, and they do this for YOU.

oh, and by the way i am Pleased, and Proud to have Obama as our President and Commander in Chief.

period.
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:15 am

P.S. Yggy, unlike Wikileaks vs.the american government, you can say anything you want, and i wont censor you.


Because even Nazi's get to march thru Skokie.

It's the American Way.
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Post by ygmir » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:24 am

you may well find, the random, (and IMHO rare) altruistic politician.
and, I'd submit, we may all well have differing opinions as to who qualifies as such.

But, I am very cynical, towards those in power, the "ruling elite".
Those in the ivory tower.
And, as a group, feel they are not worthy.

I have no better solution, so, play the cards I'm dealt.
But, that does not preclude my disdain for them, their agendas, and the processes they use to forward same.

I do reserve this for those, "on high" though. And, as stated, have no issue and do respect, those "on the ground" doing their jobs, and, mostly, to the best of their abilities.

PS:
I see your post, as I'm "penning" this missive, and, I do appreciate your sentiment.
I too, will always listen, and never "plonk".
I appreciate differing points of view, and relish the opportunity to learn, and, when applicable, even have my mind changed.

"To live in a rut, any rut, is disservice, to ones self, and to all around us "

*my quote*
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:57 am

E Pluribus Unum.
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Post by myburningdesire » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:46 pm

Simon, thank you for the input. I have a couple politicians I would like to learn more about.

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and he's tyrolian, too!

Post by Simon of the Playa » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:05 pm

you're welcome.

here is another Politician (amongst many things) as well as one of my personal heroes besides my Father and Sir Richard Burton.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhold_Messner
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Post by goathead » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:11 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:
ygmir wrote:
myburningdesire wrote:I am not pleased with the bureaucracy and the politicians. Nothing gets done and they get paid to do nothing. I think they have long ago quit representing the people and instead represent their best interests and the interests of the companies with the most money.





spoken like a true arm-chair quarterback.

blame the cogs, not the machine.....Typical.

Hate the game, not the hard working players who DO have your best interests at heart.


civil servants means JUST THAT, they work hard to serve the public's needs and are always criticized, never thanked.


think about it next time you flush your toilet, pick up your mail, drive down the street or do ANYTHING that normally seems transparent, because its always there, and you take it for granted.


stop whining and do something about it if you don't like it, that's what ACTIVISM is for.
speaking for the cogs?
many are just that.
fucking with people to justify their miserably existence.
sure their are many fine people doing their job just like the rest of us
it is always such a pleasure to find one like that.
but how many have you dealt with that leave you
with feelings of rage and homicidal thoughts
ones that feel that you, hmmm, they wonder why you even are?

Don't you know they are BUSY.

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Post by goathead » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:18 pm

Image

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Post by ygmir » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:21 pm

goathead wrote:
Simon of the Playa wrote:
ygmir wrote:




spoken like a true arm-chair quarterback.

blame the cogs, not the machine.....Typical.

Hate the game, not the hard working players who DO have your best interests at heart.


civil servants means JUST THAT, they work hard to serve the public's needs and are always criticized, never thanked.


think about it next time you flush your toilet, pick up your mail, drive down the street or do ANYTHING that normally seems transparent, because its always there, and you take it for granted.


stop whining and do something about it if you don't like it, that's what ACTIVISM is for
.
speaking for the cogs?
many are just that.
fucking with people to justify their miserably existence.
sure their are many fine people doing their job just like the rest of us
it is always such a pleasure to find one like that.
but how many have you dealt with that leave you
with feelings of rage and homicidal thoughts
ones that feel that you, hmmm, they wonder why you even are?

Don't you know they are BUSY.
just an aside:

that is not my quote.
Simon penned that, somehow, it looks like I did.
I'll not take credit for anothers thoughts.

just a point for clarity.
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when you know you're being watched...you flip the bird!

Post by Simon of the Playa » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:24 pm

FUCK GOLIATH!


Image
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cover your Alias!

Post by Roberto Dobbisano » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:30 pm

quick! everyone CYA!
"10 principles? you cant HANDLE the 10 principles..."

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Post by goathead » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:33 pm

ygmir wrote: just an aside:

that is not my quote.
Simon penned that, somehow, it looks like I did.
I'll not take credit for anothers thoughts.

just a point for clarity.
I should have fixed that.

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