News Reports Can Be Confusing -- Nudie Pics too!

All things outside of Burning Man.
User avatar
Elderberry
Moderator
Posts: 14976
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Camp Kelly
Location: Palm Springs
Contact:

News Reports Can Be Confusing -- Nudie Pics too!

Post by Elderberry » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:17 pm

I don't usually like long copy/paste posts and rarely post them. However I thought this article was relevant and a pretty easy read. The attention grabbers had noting to do with the content. :)

Passive News Reports May Lead Readers to Feel They Can't Find the Truth

ScienceDaily (Mar. 9, 2011) — Passive news reporting that doesn't attempt to resolve factual disputes in politics may have detrimental effects on readers, new research suggests.

The study found that people are more likely to doubt their own ability to determine the truth in politics after reading an article that simply lists competing claims without offering any idea of which side is right.

Image

"There are consequences to journalism that just reports what each side says with no fact checking," said Raymond Pingree, author of the study and assistant professor of communication at Ohio State University.

"It makes readers feel like they can't figure out what the truth is. And I would speculate that this attitude may lead people to tune out politics entirely, or to be more accepting of dishonesty by politicians."

The study appears in the current issue of the Journal of Communication.

While some disputes in politics involve subjective issues where there is no right or wrong answers, some involve factual issues that could be checked by reporters if they had the time and the desire, Pingree said.

"Choosing among government policies is simply not like choosing among flavors of ice cream. Policy questions quite frequently center on facts, and political disputes can and often do hinge on these facts, not only on subjective matters," he said.

Image

For example, when opponents of Obama's health care bill claimed it contained provisions for "death panels" that would determine who is worthy of health care, reporters could check the text of the bill to see if such a provision existed, Pingree said.

Pingree noted that many critics have condemned the media for playing too passive a role in factual disputes, but this is the first study to look at how such reporting actually affects readers, at least in terms of politics.

To find out how passive reporting affects audiences, Pingree conducted an experiment with 538 college students. All of the students were asked to read one of four versions of a fictional news story about a fictional health care bill under debate in the House of Representatives.

Image

The stories were nearly identical and set up two factual debates about the bill. In one dispute, opponents of the bill claimed that its cost will be far higher than the estimated $200 million and in the other, opponents claimed that the bill is redundant with Medicaid and will create unnecessary bureaucracy.

Two versions of the article simply mentioned the dispute, while the other two provided facts that showed which side was correct.

Image

After they read the article, the participants answered a variety of questions, including three that probed whether they felt they could, in general, find the truth in matters of politics. For example, one question asked how much the participants agreed with the statement "If I wanted to, I could figure out the facts behind most political disputes."

Results showed that people interested in the health care issue who read the passive article felt they were less able to find truth in politics, compared to those who read the article resolving who was right in the debate.

"We're just beginning to explore this issue," Pingree noted. "But it is noteworthy that just reading a single news story about a single topic can affect how people feel about their own ability to find truth in politics."

The issue of "he said/she said" journalism is especially critical today because many media outlets are understaffed and news cycles are faster than ever, meaning that reporters often have less time to check facts, he said.

Image

Pingree emphasized that he is not being critical of all journalists. Many still do a good job of resolving factual disputes when they can.

"But I think it is clear that this happens less than it used to. As a result, there may be people out there who feel like there is no such thing as a political fact, or at least that they can't figure out what it is," he said.

"That may make it easier for people to just quit following politics at all, or to accept dishonesty in politicians."
Pingree said the results suggest that readers want reporters to tell them when the facts support -- or don't support -- one side or the other.

He noted that there are now journalistic websites such as PolitiFact.com that are dedicated just to resolving factual disputes in politics.

Image

"It is interesting that there are now institutions within journalism dedicated to resolving disputes. A few decades ago, that was seen as the role of all journalists. Journalists didn't see themselves as stenographers, but as judges, keeping the lawyers honest in the court of public opinion. We don't see that as much anymore."
Elderberry

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me

User avatar
theCryptofishist
Posts: 40312
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
Burning Since: 2017
Location: In Exile

Post by theCryptofishist » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:44 pm

Interesting ideas there, and boy the news sure is crappy these days. (I mean that in a badly reported way, not a bad things are happening way.)
But all that scrolling past the insipid people...
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

User avatar
Elderberry
Moderator
Posts: 14976
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Camp Kelly
Location: Palm Springs
Contact:

Post by Elderberry » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:08 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Interesting ideas there, and boy the news sure is crappy these days. (I mean that in a badly reported way, not a bad things are happening way.)
But all that scrolling past the insipid people...
It was a cheap ploy to keep peoples interest.
Elderberry

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me

User avatar
JStep
Posts: 776
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:19 pm
Burning Since: 2011
Location: Omaha, NE
Contact:

Post by JStep » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:16 pm

I listened to a panel recently on anthropogenic climate change and the scientists were just at a loss as to why Americans, in particular, still believe in the myth propagated that there's still some debate or doubt within the scientific community on it. As I remember it, one of them asked a reporter in the audience why they still report the on the issue as if the two sides of the argument were of equal merit instead of just reporting the facts of scientific consensus. The report replied "You haven't convinced the public." The panelist replied "No sir, YOU haven't".

The reasons are many, but I think the biggest factors are that for one, news organizations (particularly newspapers) have slashed their investigative reporting budgets so far that the result is that they simply re-report news items like talking points without any investigative analysis or fact checking. Another problem is the concentration of media voices into the hands of fewer and fewer corporate entities. When the same companies own media as own power plants and oil refineries, there's little incentive to portray the facts that might damage their business.
~JStep
Nebraska Regional Contact
Tallgrass Burners - The Omaha and Nebraska Area Burning Man Regional Group
http://www.tallgrassburners.com
Email: nebraska [at] burningman.com

User avatar
Trishntek
Posts: 3462
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:27 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Retrofrolic!
Location: Ventura, CA, USA
Contact:

Post by Trishntek » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:19 pm

Another problem is the concentration of media voices into the hands of fewer and fewer corporate entities. When the same companies own media as own power plants and oil refineries, there's little incentive to portray the facts that might damage their business.
So enlighten us. Which power companies own what media outlets? Just the facts please.
RETROFROLIC, the place of Pink, Pain and Pleasure!
http://www.retrofrolic.com
Some call me Tnt,,,, works for me!

User avatar
JStep
Posts: 776
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:19 pm
Burning Since: 2011
Location: Omaha, NE
Contact:

Post by JStep » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:39 pm

Trishntek wrote:
Another problem is the concentration of media voices into the hands of fewer and fewer corporate entities. When the same companies own media as own power plants and oil refineries, there's little incentive to portray the facts that might damage their business.
So enlighten us. Which power companies own what media outlets? Just the facts please.
Seriously? You must be pulling my leg right? I can't believe you would actually be hard pressed to find an example. Ok... I'll play along I guess...

GE is but the easiest example that immediately comes to mind. The 2nd largest company in the world, which owns NBC, Universal Pictures, gas engines manufacturer Dresser Inc, oil drilling pipe maker British Wellstream Holding Plc.... they own the well-support division of John Wood Group Plc a global leader as of last year making GE Oil & Gas the largest oil-service unit worldwide.

That's just a quick google on the most obvious media monopoly, GE/NBC. I'm sure some real digging would reveal much more.

Seriously?
~JStep
Nebraska Regional Contact
Tallgrass Burners - The Omaha and Nebraska Area Burning Man Regional Group
http://www.tallgrassburners.com
Email: nebraska [at] burningman.com

User avatar
Tiahaar
Posts: 1142
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 9:13 pm
Burning Since: 2003
Camp Name: Starship Palomino
Location: Mojave Desert, CA (also Forever via Pandora)

Post by Tiahaar » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:43 pm

touche

User avatar
Trishntek
Posts: 3462
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:27 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Retrofrolic!
Location: Ventura, CA, USA
Contact:

Post by Trishntek » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:53 pm

Well when someone posts a statement like that in the context of accurate information being disseminated, yeah there should be a questioning of a blanket statement such as the one you made. Unless you feel you are an exception to the "problem" you so eloquently put forth.
RETROFROLIC, the place of Pink, Pain and Pleasure!
http://www.retrofrolic.com
Some call me Tnt,,,, works for me!

User avatar
JStep
Posts: 776
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:19 pm
Burning Since: 2011
Location: Omaha, NE
Contact:

Post by JStep » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:05 pm

Trishntek wrote:Well when someone posts a statement like that in the context of accurate information being disseminated, yeah there should be a questioning of a blanket statement such as the one you made. Unless you feel you are an exception to the "problem" you so eloquently put forth.
Um, huh? I simply referenced a well known and oft referenced phenomena regarding multi-national corporations owning media outlets and the ensuing conflict of interest that can follow... What in the world makes you then conclude that I am an "exception" to something? I'm confused I guess. (?)
~JStep
Nebraska Regional Contact
Tallgrass Burners - The Omaha and Nebraska Area Burning Man Regional Group
http://www.tallgrassburners.com
Email: nebraska [at] burningman.com

User avatar
Simon of the Playa
Posts: 22823
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:25 pm
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: La Guilde des Hashischins
Location: BRC, Nevada.

why waste your time on these monkeys?

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:10 pm

Image
Frida Be You & Me

User avatar
JStep
Posts: 776
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:19 pm
Burning Since: 2011
Location: Omaha, NE
Contact:

Re: why waste your time on these monkeys?

Post by JStep » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:11 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:Image
Indeed!
~JStep
Nebraska Regional Contact
Tallgrass Burners - The Omaha and Nebraska Area Burning Man Regional Group
http://www.tallgrassburners.com
Email: nebraska [at] burningman.com

User avatar
Trishntek
Posts: 3462
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:27 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Retrofrolic!
Location: Ventura, CA, USA
Contact:

Post by Trishntek » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:11 pm

The reasons are many, but I think the biggest factors are that for one, news organizations (particularly newspapers) have slashed their investigative reporting budgets so far that the result is that they simply re-report news items like talking points without any investigative analysis or fact checking. Another problem is the concentration of media voices into the hands of fewer and fewer corporate entities. When the same companies own media as own power plants and oil refineries, there's little incentive to portray the facts that might damage their business.
What part of this paragraph indicates you are quoting someone else?

Edit to add: When the first sentence of a paragraph has the words "I think" included, it becomes opinion and a perfect example of that which you decry. Which I believe is discerning fact from fiction.
RETROFROLIC, the place of Pink, Pain and Pleasure!
http://www.retrofrolic.com
Some call me Tnt,,,, works for me!

User avatar
JStep
Posts: 776
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:19 pm
Burning Since: 2011
Location: Omaha, NE
Contact:

Post by JStep » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:17 pm

Trishntek wrote:
The reasons are many, but I think the biggest factors are that for one, news organizations (particularly newspapers) have slashed their investigative reporting budgets so far that the result is that they simply re-report news items like talking points without any investigative analysis or fact checking. Another problem is the concentration of media voices into the hands of fewer and fewer corporate entities. When the same companies own media as own power plants and oil refineries, there's little incentive to portray the facts that might damage their business.
What part of this paragraph indicates you are quoting someone else?
You'd have to tell me because I wrote that myself and have no idea why you'd ask that. I am more that willing to admit that what I write regarding the world at large, politics, social issues etc is informed by the journalistic efforts of others. However, if I directly quote someone I usually use quotation marks and hyperlink my quote to their direct web reference.
~JStep
Nebraska Regional Contact
Tallgrass Burners - The Omaha and Nebraska Area Burning Man Regional Group
http://www.tallgrassburners.com
Email: nebraska [at] burningman.com

User avatar
Trishntek
Posts: 3462
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:27 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Retrofrolic!
Location: Ventura, CA, USA
Contact:

Post by Trishntek » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:24 pm

We could even take it a step further and ask for an example of how GE/NBC demonstrates bias in favor of energy companies.

This is precisely why news reports become confusing whether they are fact or fiction. Please provide an example of that which you claim to be true! How does NBC protect energy companies in their news reporting?

I believe in the business they call it an ACTUALITY.
RETROFROLIC, the place of Pink, Pain and Pleasure!
http://www.retrofrolic.com
Some call me Tnt,,,, works for me!

User avatar
JStep
Posts: 776
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:19 pm
Burning Since: 2011
Location: Omaha, NE
Contact:

Post by JStep » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:30 pm

Trishntek wrote:We could even take it a step further and ask for an example of how GE/NBC demonstrates bias in favor of energy companies.

This is precisely why news reports become confusing whether they are fact or fiction. Please provide an example of that which you claim to be true! How does NBC protect energy companies in their news reporting?

I believe in the business they call it an ACTUALITY.
See my first post on this thread regarding how American news outlets continue to posit the global climate change debate as a struggle between two arguments of equal merit. This is a fact. The average American believes that the scientific community is embroiled in a debate over this issue. This is a fact. The scientific community, in reality, is decided on this point. This is a fact. What point are you missing here?
~JStep
Nebraska Regional Contact
Tallgrass Burners - The Omaha and Nebraska Area Burning Man Regional Group
http://www.tallgrassburners.com
Email: nebraska [at] burningman.com

User avatar
Trishntek
Posts: 3462
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:27 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Retrofrolic!
Location: Ventura, CA, USA
Contact:

Post by Trishntek » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:45 pm

Because, simply put, you said, ",,,but I think,,,". There is no basis in fact presented. Simply another opinion,,,, just an opinion.
RETROFROLIC, the place of Pink, Pain and Pleasure!
http://www.retrofrolic.com
Some call me Tnt,,,, works for me!

User avatar
Trishntek
Posts: 3462
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:27 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Retrofrolic!
Location: Ventura, CA, USA
Contact:

Post by Trishntek » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:58 pm

To completely answer you, provide evidence the debate is over.

Provide evidence the media states the debate continues based upon arguments of equal merit.

Please demonstrate that what you say is fact.

I'm supposed to believe what you say merely because you say it?

What makes you different than anyone else? Because what you think is fact in your own mind makes it so?

Since the thread is about how confusing news reports can be, I'm simply pointing out how statements without substantiation, such as the ones you put forth, have no merit. In other words, back up what you say with facts instead of what you think.
RETROFROLIC, the place of Pink, Pain and Pleasure!
http://www.retrofrolic.com
Some call me Tnt,,,, works for me!

LLQchasm
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:48 pm

Post by LLQchasm » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:09 am

Trishntek wrote:To completely answer you, provide evidence the debate is over.

Provide evidence the media states the debate continues based upon arguments of equal merit.

Please demonstrate that what you say is fact.

I'm supposed to believe what you say merely because you say it?

What makes you different than anyone else? Because what you think is fact in your own mind makes it so?

Since the thread is about how confusing news reports can be, I'm simply pointing out how statements without substantiation, such as the ones you put forth, have no merit. In other words, back up what you say with facts instead of what you think.
As is the case with the first post, you're supposed to read between the lines... :wink:

LLQchasm
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:48 pm

Re: News Reports Can Be Confusing -- Nudie Pics too!

Post by LLQchasm » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:15 am

Like this...

Passive News Reports Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

ScienceDaily (Mar. 9, 2011) — Passive news reporting that Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.

Image

"There are consequences to Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah...

Image

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

Pingree noted that many critics Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah...

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.

Image

The stories were nearly identical Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.

Image

After they read the article, Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah...

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.

Image

Pingree emphasized that Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.

Image

"Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah keeping the lawyers honest in the court of public opinion. We don't see that as much anymore."[/quote]

User avatar
graidawg
Posts: 3179
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:50 am
Burning Since: 2011
Camp Name: CAMP Hooker
Contact:

Post by graidawg » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:34 am

can we have more nudie pics?
FREE THE SHERPAS
Burners with torches is right and natural and just.-fishy.
CATCH AND RELEASE.

User avatar
Elderberry
Moderator
Posts: 14976
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Camp Kelly
Location: Palm Springs
Contact:

Post by Elderberry » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:35 am

Hard to have an intelligent argument when people refuse to accept facts. Doc Placebo has presented the SCIENTIFIC evidence for climate change that is non-disputable. Are there other facts you need referenced?
Elderberry

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me

LLQchasm
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:48 pm

Post by LLQchasm » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:48 am

jkisha wrote:Doc Placebo has presented the SCIENTIFIC evidence for climate change that is non-disputable...
Does anything strike you as ironic about this statement? Placebo maybe? :mrgreen: I know he's on this board...

BTW... I'm not a skeptic about climate change. It seems to me everybody knows its happening. The only people I've seen dispute it are those reporting on it in the media.

User avatar
gyre
Posts: 15457
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Post by gyre » Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:20 am

There are books about journalistic decline and why.

GE = nuclear.
Renamed Atomic Train and censored the fictional movie.
Routinely downplays or cuts stories on corporate corruption, lobbying, chemical poison and toxicity, etc
I saw an "expert" on nuclear spouting the whole industry line on nuclear, no accidents until three Mile, no meltdown, no deaths, no danger.
Lies lies lies

SNL is restricted and jokes about this are sneaked in.
There was a whole routine about the limits on subjects and the attempt to appear open with SNL.
I can't recall who presented it though.

GE has manufactured 60,000 nuclear weapons, that I know of so far.

News is now for profit and the obligation to report is removed.
Some is called "entertainment" which means they don't even pretend to be accurate.

There are dockos, but you have to look to UK and the "liberal" ie free ish news from PBS.
Active efforts to kill that last outlet free from corporate control are kicking up again.

Look what they did to ACORN just for representing the poor.

If you add the BBC icon to your toolbar you can drop down a list of stories.
Very handy and better reporting on the usa than here.


I hear factual stories presented, then a crank moron "viewpoint", and they conclude with "It's a controversy"

And they love "controversy" stories about things or people no one gives fuckall about.

LLQchasm
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:48 pm

Post by LLQchasm » Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:50 am

gyre wrote:I hear factual stories presented, then a crank moron "viewpoint", and they conclude with "It's a controversy".
Bill Maher essentially said the same thing; that not all opinions deserve equal weight. Somehow in the USA that has become synonymous with democracy that we should take the opinions of people who are as developmentally stunted as to make you think they have downs syndrome and give those opinions the same rank as those of scientists.

The real problem from the perspective of the true "owners" of this world is overpopulation. Time for a massive eradication of their human infestation problem so they can get on with the business of colonizing Mars with the emptied bank accounts of all the victims.

User avatar
MyDearFriend
Posts: 3760
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:22 am
Burning Since: 2011
Camp Name: Barbie Death Camp THIRTEENTH BARBIE
Location: Washington, DC

Post by MyDearFriend » Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:52 am

LLQchasm wrote:
gyre wrote:I hear factual stories presented, then a crank moron "viewpoint", and they conclude with "It's a controversy".
Bill Maher essentially said the same thing; that not all opinions deserve equal weight. Somehow in the USA that has become synonymous with democracy that we should take the opinions of people who are as developmentally stunted as to make you think they have downs syndrome and give those opinions the same rank as those of scientists.

The real problem from the perspective of the true "owners" of this world is overpopulation. Time for a massive eradication of their human infestation problem so they can get on with the business of colonizing Mars with the emptied bank accounts of all the victims.
Dude, I'm confused here. Do you personally believe that our planet has a "human infestation problem" or are you ascribing this view to somebody else?

That phrase (human infestation problem) hit the news in my city a while back when a crazy person shot a bunch of random people; the HIP was his big beef, according to his interweb ramblings. Anyway my very interesting downtown neighborhood is routinely invaded by pseudohipsters from the suburbs on weekend evenings, so, now instead of rolling my eyes at the 'tragically hip' I think "HIP" when I see bourgemobiles parked illegally at all the corners.

No I would not kill them or even wish them harm. I always hope they'll tip well at my favorite bars.

LLQchasm
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:48 pm

Post by LLQchasm » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:07 am

MyDearFriend wrote:
LLQchasm wrote:
gyre wrote:I hear factual stories presented, then a crank moron "viewpoint", and they conclude with "It's a controversy".
Bill Maher essentially said the same thing; that not all opinions deserve equal weight. Somehow in the USA that has become synonymous with democracy that we should take the opinions of people who are as developmentally stunted as to make you think they have downs syndrome and give those opinions the same rank as those of scientists.

The real problem from the perspective of the true "owners" of this world is overpopulation. Time for a massive eradication of their human infestation problem so they can get on with the business of colonizing Mars with the emptied bank accounts of all the victims.
Dude, I'm confused here. Do you personally believe that our planet has a "human infestation problem" or are you ascribing this view to somebody else?

That phrase (human infestation problem) hit the news in my city a while back when a crazy person shot a bunch of random people; the HIP was his big beef, according to his interweb ramblings. Anyway my very interesting downtown neighborhood is routinely invaded by pseudohipsters from the suburbs on weekend evenings, so, now instead of rolling my eyes at the 'tragically hip' I think "HIP" when I see bourgemobiles parked illegally at all the corners.

No I would not kill them or even wish them harm. I always hope they'll tip well at my favorite bars.
I'm not a "true owner" and therefore it is not my belief. These are the ideas of an elite few who I happen to have met but I think they are despicable people. Of course not everyone thinks that way even in the top 1%, but they do exist.

User avatar
MyDearFriend
Posts: 3760
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:22 am
Burning Since: 2011
Camp Name: Barbie Death Camp THIRTEENTH BARBIE
Location: Washington, DC

Post by MyDearFriend » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:25 am

LLQchasm wrote:I'm not a "true owner" and therefore it is not my belief. These are the ideas of an elite few who I happen to have met but I think they are despicable people. Of course not everyone thinks that way even in the top 1%, but they do exist.
Okay just checking. 8)
"BTW I'm not your wife so don't lie to me." -Ratty

LLQchasm
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:48 pm

Post by LLQchasm » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:30 am

MyDearFriend wrote:
LLQchasm wrote:I'm not a "true owner" and therefore it is not my belief. These are the ideas of an elite few who I happen to have met but I think they are despicable people. Of course not everyone thinks that way even in the top 1%, but they do exist.
Okay just checking. 8)
Their argument which is Machiavellian on some levels and Straussian (where the Neo-Con agenda comes from) on others is that prosperity only causes expansion of population which leads to greater demand and further depletion of resources. So to keep the species in check, the majority of the population must be subjected to poverty and ignorance so that fewer babies are born that survive to further deplete resources. From this point of view conflicts are seen as a way to reduce the world's population by enlisting "undesirables" to fight against each other in wars which enriches the elite who are the keepers of the "philosophy" of classical antiquity. The argument that Leo Strauss made was that because of what happened to Socrates (being forced to drink the hemlock) that the general population should not be educated beyond their station and that philosophy belonged to the gentry. It is a long argument, which Jacob Klein thought was a cowardly position... but there are people in top positions in government who hold to this philosophy and think that deception of the public is in the best interests of humanity until such a time that humans have differentiated their chromosomes to the point that they are sufficiently removed from baboons to behave in a civilized manner...

This is the idea behind royal blood; the purification of the species that Hitler saw based on the ideas of Darwin, survival of the fittest, etc...

Some conspiracy theorists have said that religion (by masons, Illuminati, take your pick) is engineered to create the cataclysm that will lead to the thinning out of the species and that the 2012 hype, dramatic reports of horrific events played up in the media and other such beliefs will be used against the ignorant to make them believe that the end of the world is coming so that they duke it out while the elites one day retire to their bunkers at NORAD and elsewhere and wait it out to pick up after the destruction.

User avatar
Simon of the Playa
Posts: 22823
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:25 pm
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: La Guilde des Hashischins
Location: BRC, Nevada.

Last Train to Antarctica!

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:43 am

um....yeah....


backing out door.....***wondering why o why he ever started with the whole nazi-ufo-mason hoax on these boards***....


people actually BELIEVE that shit!


omg...

it was a joke people...


yikes.
Frida Be You & Me

LLQchasm
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:48 pm

Re: Last Train to Antarctica!

Post by LLQchasm » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:54 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:um....yeah....


backing out door.....***wondering why o why he ever started with the whole nazi-ufo-mason hoax on these boards***....


people actually BELIEVE that shit!


omg...

it was a joke people...


yikes.
I don't believe the BS in the last paragraph about 2012, etc. But I have spoken to some high level philosophers (Jacob Klein of St Johns) and these positions actually do exist in politics and have been debated upon! I understand that philosophy is not big in the minds of the general public, but pick up Plato's Statesman, or the Sophist if you have time. These arguments are a part of classical antiquity and some people still hold to these ideas to this day and many of them are in powerful positions in government. This is a fact. To deny it just shows your ignorance.

Post Reply

Return to “Open Discussion”