Shutdown of GOV

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Shutdown of GOV

Post by can't sit still » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:03 am

I'm starting this as a new topic because it appears to be a "roadmap" for future cuts.
"House Republicans edged closer to a real government shutdown Friday if the GOP’s demands for domestic spending cuts are not immediately met.

A draft bill being prepared by the House Appropriations Committee on Monday night would put the Defense Department on permanent footing through the end of this fiscal year but require $12 billion in new cuts as the price for keeping domestic agencies and the State Department operating another week.

OK, so it appears that defense is going to be spared cuts. That means cuts in non-defense stuff. There seems to be a "target" painted on the back of Medicare.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/52508.html

It appears that the GOP is serious about a shutdown;
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/52532.html
If "save defense" and cut "entitlements" is going to be the mantra, then there will be plenty of pain for almost everybody.
There is normally a lot of "posturing" when the budget ceiling is being raised. It remains to be seen how much of this is just posturing.
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Post by can't sit still » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:35 pm

I expected a lot of posturing over the GOV shutdown threat. There is a bit more;
http://www.military.com/news/article/wh ... ESRC=eb.nl

As I had feared, it appears that GOV is going to use the debt-ceiling fight to pump up the military budget and cut the social welfare system. I don't have time to look for corroborating sources but;
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/0 ... 44692.html
It seems that social welfare programs are at the head of the line for the chopping block.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... bral-palsy

I suppose that we'll hear more in the next few days.
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Post by DarthKrosis » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:33 pm

If GOV shuts down, and stays shutdown, until, say the Nov 2012 elections, that means all National Park Service sites will be closed, right? What about BLM sites? There's a dry lake bed north-east of Gerlach, NV where I was planning a camping trip, probably the week before Labor Day - it would total suck if it was closed...

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Post by gyre » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:56 pm

Comparable to buying a $200,000 house and arguing over $400.


Once again, they're betting on stupidity.

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Post by Ugly Dougly » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:07 pm

We already got ourselves worked into a lather over it here:
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... highlight=

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Post by can't sit still » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:32 pm

When the budget crunch hit hard in Ca., GOV went out of their way to shut down stuff that most inconvenienced the public. At the Canoga Park DMV the dmv assholes forced everybody to line up outside the building in the hot sun. The people protested that they should be allowed to line up on the shady side of the building. The dmv assholes said NO ! If they were lined up on the shady side of the building, they would not have been visible from passers-by on the street.
Someone called the cops and the cops asked the dmv assholes WHY?
The cops told the people to line up in the shade.
I expect GOV to close the very visible stuff. BRC doesn't fit that category.
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Post by can't sit still » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:07 pm

This is worth reading;

On Monday, Treasury Secretary Geithner sent a letter to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, John Boehner, the Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, House Democratic Leader, and Mitch McConnell, Senate Republican Leader warning that the U.S. Credit Card will be maxed out by May 16. Geithner wrote:

I am writing to update you on the Treasury Department’s projections regarding when the statutory debt limit will be reached and to inform you about the limits of the available measures at our disposal to delay that date temporarily.

In our previous communications to Congress, we provided regular estimates of the likely time period in which the debt limit could be reached. We can now make that projection with more precision. The Treasury Department now projects that the debt limit will be reached no later than May 16, 2011.

[…]

If the debt limit is not increased by May 16, the Treasury Department has authority to take certain extraordinary measures, described in detail in the appendix, to temporarily postpone the date that the United States would otherwise default on its obligations. These actions, which have been employed during previous debt limit impasses, would be exhausted after approximately eight weeks, meaning no headroom to borrow within the limit would be available after about July 8, 2011. At that point the Treasury would have no remaining borrowing authority, and the available cash balances would be inadequate for us to operate with a sufficient margin to meet our commitments securely.

As Secretary of the Treasury, I would prefer to avoid resorting to these extraordinary measures. The longer Congress fails to act, the more we risk that investors here and around the world will lose confidence in our ability to meet our commitments and our obligations.

If Congress does not act by May 16, I will take all measures available to me to give Congress additional time to act and to protect the creditworthiness of the country. These measures, however, only provide a limited degree of flexibility—much less flexibility than when our deficits were smaller.

[…]

For these reasons, default by the United States is unthinkable. This is not a new or partisan judgment; it is a conclusion that has been shared by every Secretary of the Treasury, regardless of political party, in the modern era.

Treasury has been asked whether it would be possible for the Treasury to sell financial assets as a way to avoid or delay congressional action to raise the debt limit. This is not a viable option. To attempt a “fire saleâ€
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Post by can't sit still » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:35 pm

The New York Times has the story:

"Congressional Republicans are vowing that before they will agree to raise the current $14.25 trillion federal debt ceiling - a step that will become necessary in as little as five weeks - President Obama and Senate Democrats will have to agree to far deeper spending cuts for next year and beyond than those contained in the six-month budget deal agreed to late Friday night that cut $38 billion and averted a government shutdown.

Republicans have also signaled that they will again demand fundamental changes in policy on health care, the environment, abortion rights and more, as the price of their support for raising the debt ceiling. "
I suspect that GOV would dearly love to get rid of the EPA. It was already mentioned.
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Post by TomServo » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:17 pm

The governments shut down before. And it didn't this time. I didn't care once I found out it didn't mean anarchy.
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..

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Post by Ugly Dougly » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:39 am

The republicans are grandstanding, making Planned Parenthood the issue rather than responsibly balancing the budget. They want to turn to their constituency and claim that they were fighting to block government funded abortions, while at the same time, blocking tax increases for the fat cats that fund their campaigns.

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Post by 1durphul » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:03 am

We have the largest military on the planet and the means to extract wealth, energy, minerals, and other resources at the point of gun. Defaulting would destroy our largest competitors that own all of our debt. Seems like an easy solution to a stupid problem.

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Post by Ugly Dougly » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:43 am

1durphul wrote:We have the largest military on the planet and the means to extract wealth, energy, minerals, and other resources at the point of gun. Defaulting would destroy our largest competitors that own all of our debt. Seems like an easy solution to a stupid problem.
And it would be so much fun to watch.

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Post by 1durphul » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:03 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:
1durphul wrote:We have the largest military on the planet and the means to extract wealth, energy, minerals, and other resources at the point of gun. Defaulting would destroy our largest competitors that own all of our debt. Seems like an easy solution to a stupid problem.
And it would be so much fun to watch.
"On behalf of the United States I would like to announce that we no longer recognize our debt with China, or India. All nations will continue shipments of oil and commodities to the United States. Any refusal to do so will result in the complete destruction of your production abilities, naval routes, and the mass killing of your civilians through bombing sortees. You will also be giving these goods to us as a form of tribute."

Meanwhile China and India would completely collapse, disabling their ability to conduct war against us in retaliation.

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Post by Lassen Forge » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:34 pm

Right.

China would be here to collect on its debt faster than you could say When, Jaibow?

Image

Hi, Barack, my name's Chen, me an' my buddies on dis here boat, and a hunnert and fifty more like it, I've come to collect da money youse guys owe us... Anny questions? hyeh hyeh hyeh...

Think about it. The Yuan is more stable right now than the dollar, and a lot of folk (OK, some teabags but others more rational) have already surmised the reason our rights have been deteriorating so rapidly is that we're already been sold out and it's being kept from the American people, as not to scare them away... until its too late...

With a modern military larger than anyone else (3 million and counting) things could look pretty bleak, indeed...

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Post by gyre » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:06 pm

All they have to do is drop a third of their population on us and take over with rakes and shovels.

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Post by Major Krash » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:54 am

stop buying foreign made stuff

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Post by ygmir » Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:15 am

gyre wrote:All they have to do is drop a third of their population on us and take over with rakes and shovels.
they could probably link arms, and use air mattresses to make a human bridge and walk here.
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Post by Ugly Dougly » Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:54 am

Major Krash wrote:stop buying foreign made stuff
And of course, stop selling our goods overseas. Good luck with that isolationism. It hasn't been possible for at least 100 years and there's no way to go back. We're all interdependent, more or less like the playa.

So let's invade Mexico.

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Post by TomServo » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:29 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:
Major Krash wrote:stop buying foreign made stuff
And of course, stop selling our goods overseas. Good luck with that isolationism. It hasn't been possible for at least 100 years and there's no way to go back. We're all interdependent, more or less like the playa.

So let's invade Mexico.

Why don't we buy mexico? Our military is streched thin.
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..

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Post by Ugly Dougly » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:48 pm

You know we'll be done with the middle east soon enough. Our agents have done their job fomenting pro-democracy riots there, while their counterparts in the western hemisphere have done well in destabilizing south of the border - don't tell me you didn't know their involvement in the drug trade! Mexico is nearly softened up enough to become a de facto colony.

Yeah, I've been sniffing some of CSS's glue. Hope I don't get a headache afterward.

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Post by 1durphul » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:46 am

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:.

Hi, Barack, my name's Chen, me an' my buddies on dis here boat, and a hunnert and fifty more like it, I've come to collect da money youse guys owe us... Anny questions? hyeh hyeh hyeh...

With a modern military larger than anyone else (3 million and counting) things could look pretty bleak, indeed...
Oh hai der Mr. Chen. im very happy for you and ima gonna let you finish but our B2 stealth bombers are the best bombers of all time. My name is Barack Obama, and I want change, change on the dollar four debt. While you were sleeping last night I sunk your armada. You cannot haz navy. Soz. While we were at it we bombed your shipyards, oil production facilities in Africa, and have convinced the middle east that paying us tribute vs. returning to poverty due to their oil production facilities being bombed off the face of the planet is in their best interest. Good luck feeding your country!

Image

Btw, Chen have you seen your western border where we've been massing troops for the last decade? Yeah, we were as surprised as you that afghanistan actually touches your border. O yes, we can haz! And we didz! We is all up in yo china. Stealin' yur rice.

Pew! Pew!

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Post by ygmir » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:54 am

1durphul wrote:
Bay Bridge Sue wrote:.

Hi, Barack, my name's Chen, me an' my buddies on dis here boat, and a hunnert and fifty more like it, I've come to collect da money youse guys owe us... Anny questions? hyeh hyeh hyeh...

With a modern military larger than anyone else (3 million and counting) things could look pretty bleak, indeed...
Oh hai der Mr. Chen. im very happy for you and ima gonna let you finish but our B2 stealth bombers are the best bombers of all time. My name is Barack Obama, and I want change, change on the dollar four debt. While you were sleeping last night I sunk your armada. You cannot haz navy. Soz. While we were at it we bombed your shipyards, oil production facilities in Africa, and have convinced the middle east that paying us tribute vs. returning to poverty due to their oil production facilities being bombed off the face of the planet is in their best interest. Good luck feeding your country!

Image

Btw, Chen have you seen your western border where we've been massing troops for the last decade? Yeah, we were as surprised as you that afghanistan actually touches your border. O yes, we can haz! And we didz! We is all up in yo china. Stealin' yur rice.

Pew! Pew!
chuckling............
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Post by Elderberry » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:53 am

why did i even bother clicking on this thread? :roll:
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Post by 1durphul » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:49 pm

jkisha wrote:why did i even bother clicking on this thread? :roll:
In the not serious way I put it there is actually some things to consider as to why China would have trouble against our military.

The first is that we have the ability to project our power via the stealth B-2 anywhere on the globe. We showed the world that with Libya where the B-2's ran their bombing missions from a base in Missouri. If they can't detect us and we are able to take out their supply lines, and their ability to project their power outside their territory they don't have much ability to threaten us.

The second is that we already have our war machine in a neighboring country. Air, infantry, mechanized infantry, drones, all ready with supply lines in place.

China would have to resort to asymmetrical or nuclear warfare in order to really win against us.

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Post by can't sit still » Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:26 pm

JK, I know how you feel. There has been a bit of thread drift. There has also been a "flight of fancy" concerning world powers. I've never complained about thread drift so, I might as well jump in .
1durphul wrote that we "could take everything that we need at the point of a gun." That's true only up to a point. The critical item is oil. If we hijacked tankers, the oil producers would quit pumping. Our military is good for blowing things up, but not very useful for going in and loading tankers.
If we threatened to bomb their capitals unless they supplied us with free oil, we would have our hands very full. We show off our conventional military but hide the good stuff. If you read the books by Jerry Vassilatos, you will get a glimpse of the really terrible weapons.

"Secrets of Cold War Technology
Declassified patents of the Cold War and SDI
Gerry Vassilatos"
You don't have to speculate. He gives extensive info and illustrations for many patents that are now de-classified. You can look up the patents for yourself.
http://www.borderlands.com/vassilatos.htm
They include all kinds of energetic beam weapons and exotic stuff for orbiting platforms. You have to consider that if these patents are de-classified, they must have been superseded by far more powerful weapons. I have all 3 books and they are filled with tons of info. Like I said, you can pull up the patents on a search.

Most people tend to think of warfare in very conventional terms. Bullets and missiles.,,, Planes and tanks. If things turn badly, there is always ICBMs. There is some knowledge of orbiting weapons.
It costs $ 1 million to kill someone with a nuke. R&D, production and delivery. It costs $ 1,000 to kill someone with a biological weapon. Everybody is working on them. There has been fierce competition for talent.
http://www.rense.com/general62/microvv.htm
In general, there has been a lot of killing of weapons researchers. A few top Iranians have lately been killed off.
http://justgetthere.us/blog/archives/Li ... gists.html
Bio-war seems to give the most bang for the buck.
Not as exciting as stealth bombers but, cheaper.
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Post by can't sit still » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:46 pm

The debt limit has been raised 70 times. There is no shortage of drama accompanying the debt-dance. The drama is getting much more heated. The bankers have come out and warned Obama not to stall or play games. The Reps want HUGE cuts before they will sign on. The gloves may very well come off. http://www.cnbc.com/id/42775820
You remember the flash-crash in may. There just might be some kind of repeat,,, just to make things interesting.
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Post by Elderberry » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:25 pm

1durphul wrote:
jkisha wrote:why did i even bother clicking on this thread? :roll:
In the not serious way I put it there is actually some things to consider as to why China would have trouble against our military.

The first is that we have the ability to project our power via the stealth B-2 anywhere on the globe. We showed the world that with Libya where the B-2's ran their bombing missions from a base in Missouri. If they can't detect us and we are able to take out their supply lines, and their ability to project their power outside their territory they don't have much ability to threaten us.

The second is that we already have our war machine in a neighboring country. Air, infantry, mechanized infantry, drones, all ready with supply lines in place.

China would have to resort to asymmetrical or nuclear warfare in order to really win against us.
All we would have to do to destroy China is to simply stop importing good and services from them.
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Post by can't sit still » Sun May 01, 2011 5:44 pm

Soros says that obummer has lost control of the economy. If true, the upcoming funding battles will go against the Dems. I suspect that if the Reps get their way, Medicare will be subjected to high-amputation quite soon.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-1 ... enda-.html The debt ceiling and funding should be quite a slugfest.
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Post by can't sit still » Thu May 05, 2011 7:49 pm

"But it appears Congress will not raise the federal debt limit before that ceiling is reached on May 16, Geithner said in his letter. In anticipation of this inaction, the Treasury will begin shutting down certain types of debt issuance this week,"
http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2 ... human.html
They're calling this a high-stakes game of chicken.
"The Treasury has told lawmakers a roughly $2 trillion rise in the legal limit on federal debt would be needed to ensure the government can keep borrowing through the 2012 presidential election"
I'm sure that the Reps will be more than happy to provide lots of smooth sailing for obummer to get re-elected. :lol:
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Post by can't sit still » Fri May 13, 2011 8:12 pm

It looks like we'll hit the debt ceiling on Monday;
http://ml-implode.com/staticnews/2011-0 ... onday.html
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