Suicidal Tendencies

[goathead]

fever dreams
the only ones i ever remember
i never remember dreaming
i day dream about dreams
wish i had them
wish for an opium den
and the chance to dream

[knowmad]

Whoa!
I took some time off from reading this thread and haven't seen geeksters posting.
(((geekster)))
Um dono if you'll be reading... Bfwiw.
Try to include your brother in laws highschool afair in the healing prosses. (of course, with taste and discression in regards to his wife and children). She'll be in a world of hurt and may be pushed to the edge too. A gesture of kindness could prevent a domino effect in what is already a tradgity.
Agian sorry you are experiancing this with your famly.

[Elliot]

...fever dreams...

Is that an established phenomenon, or did you just coin the phrase?
Although, in my case, I do not remember them.

But it sounds like you're talking about a more dramatic experience.

Well, that's the question. Physical violence between family members is unthinkable in my world. So let's theorize that maybe my recent dream of fighting my father hand-to-hand to the death found its way out of the subconscious as a result of the immediately preceding unprecedented emotional upheaval (my peek into the abyss of suicide).
Yes, I'm trying to psychoanalyze myself, since no professional is going to do it.

Two tidbits from Wikipedia on dreaming:
"According to Sigmund Freud, dreams are more often forgotten entirely, perhaps due to their prohibited character."
"At least 95% of all dreams are not remembered."

Where did that dream about my father come from, and what other dark forces are lurking in there? Certainly could explain that paralyzing depression, I suspect.

[NessaZee]

Nine days without a post -- mental healthiness has broken out all over the land!

About that business of dreams.
I'm reading a novel where the protagonist suffers from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and he talks of sweating profusely during nightmares.
And earlier, somewhere else (non-fiction), I've read that we do not remember the many dreams we have while we sleep; but only the last one, the one that is still more-or-less running when we wake up.
Third, I used to find myself soaked in sweat in the middle of the night, quite often. For some time -- years -- it was routine for me to change my shirt and pillow in the middle of the night.
Finally, there was the recent dream, out of the blue, where I killed my father.

Putting these four items together, it occurs to me that I may have had a lot of narsty dreams that I do not remember. I used to think of the sweating as a result of temperature changes in the house; the number of blankets I had over me, and maybe kicked off me; that sort of thing. Now I'm not so sure. Considering how close I have been to Intolerable Desperation, maybe years of "secret" nightmares would explain some things? Is this plausible?

Thoughts? Knowledge?

it's possible that the sweating could be caused by nightmares you are not aware of...and if this is how it works, I think there are at least two benefits.
1) body works out toxins through sweating. essentially, a good sweat is helping to unload a lot of the glug that your lymphatic system has collected. Our lymphatic systems need help to eject the waste, they have no muscles of their own to contract like our intestines. sweating, massage and dry-brushing all help this waste disposal system work it's best. bathe in the morning to wash off any residue before it absorbs back into the skin.
2) nightmares are a way to work through emotions we have ignored or tucked away inside. Some of these emotions are terrible to face so we compartmentalize them so we don't have to 'deal' with them consciously. I think 'nightmares' bring these feeling back to the surface.

i don't know. our bodies are pretty spectacular and i think that all of the things we experience through them are functional. it's beautiful

[Elliot]

Appreciate your input, NessaZee!

1.... Sure. But I would much rather do my healthy sweating during the day, from vigorous work and recreation, as opposed to having it interfere with my precious sleep.

2.... Right. But if I have nightmares I don't remember, it does not do any good, now does it? From what I understand, there is no guarantee that a nightmare will wake us up while it is happening, so we can remember it and go to work on dealing with the stuff.

Yeah, Mother Nature has designed some pretty fabulous bodies for us to live in. But so long as some of us wind up murdering our own bodies to escape the crap, or paralysis, in our minds, I guess I'll keep trying to analyze things.

[NessaZee]

Appreciate your input, NessaZee!



2.... Right. But if I have nightmares I don't remember, it does not do any good, now does it? From what I understand, there is no guarantee that a nightmare will wake us up while it is happening, so we can remember it and go to work on dealing with the stuff.

...what if one didn't need to be awake to deal with suppressed emotions? Don't you sometimes feel really good in the morning? My thoughts are that we deal with our emotions on a sub-conscious level as well. in fact I think much of our 'conscious analyzing' actually impedes our ability to work through some things..

[Elliot]

Interesting! Could very well be. But I cannot say I have any mornings where I wake up feeling surprisingly good. And I have had 35 years since I moved out of my parents' house, so if the subconscious deals effectively with the "harsh toilet training" type of problems (such as my spending several years as a teenager not talking with my father at all, while living in the same house!), how much time is enough for that? That's why I now want to pursue conscious understanding.

[ibdave]

Elliot, been walking/sleeping in your shoes for awhile now..3-4 yrs..
Truth, without this thread and the ability to read and HIDE, you fucker's SAVED ME..TRUTH.
as Elliot was at his lowest, I was too. Wife had to leave for the holidays (thanksgiving) to escape my madness. If I was going, she was smart to not be around.. Now stop with the she should have, could have shit.. 30+ yrs with her and she seen it all... So no soapbox please.
What she didn't know, I was listening to you fuckers with open mind. As Elliot typed, it was as though we were in the same room and so I let his wonderful words do my talking.. Thank You Elliot for stripping it all off and tell it as it was/is... Love you man... Firefox, Love you for you insight and book.... yup have the book, but I'm sacred of it. My wife has read more and nods her head a lot.. The rest of this FAMILY, I LOVE YOU ALL. Thanks.

My road to a better ibdave is improving everyday and been to the Doc for the 1st chat and head back for the Bi-polar work up during the end of the month I hope.

Ya think because were paying our COBRA each month, I'd get in faster...
so, I'll keep ya updated and again, thanks for truly SAVING MY LIFE.......

[knowmad]

...what if one didn't need to be awake to deal with suppressed emotions? Don't you sometimes feel really good in the morning? My thoughts are that we deal with our emotions on a sub-conscious level as well. In fact I think much of our 'conscious analyzing' actually impedes our ability to work through some things...

Well FWIW;
As a practicing Native American Sweat lodge member we know of one way that seems to answer this.
The Sweat lodge tradition allows us to renter the tight places and confines of our mind and spirit while being awake and lucid. While in the lodge we are praying and supporting each other in prayer. And it is HOT! Overbearing, and out pours the waters, in breaths the will. We are reduced to our bare utterances with each other.

On the Bio-Physical level we are causing a major stress on each other and flexing our chemical reserves. The salt levels in your body are exchanged and also taxed in a way that normal daily life can’t match.
Replacing unplanned nightmare/traumatic biological crash for a controlled decent. We all enter nearly the same; loaded down with chemical worries, imbalances and over loads of bits and pieces of emotions. We all level the same too; empty and clean, weak and at rest, and then we begin to rebuild, water, air, salts, and the small fire becomes our sacred center again.

Sorry to rant/preach but this thread and Sweat lodge have been very large positive forces in my Life lately and I thought I would share that here. Like IBDave this thread and those I feel accountable to here have made me feel restrained and anchored when Inside I believe that all is lost and I am adrift. I love each and every one of you here. aho!

[ygmir]

Elliot, been walking/sleeping in your shoes for awhile now..3-4 yrs..
Truth, without this thread and the ability to read and HIDE, you fucker's SAVED ME..TRUTH.
as Elliot was at his lowest, I was too. Wife had to leave for the holidays (thanksgiving) to escape my madness. If I was going, she was smart to not be around.. Now stop with the she should have, could have shit.. 30+ yrs with her and she seen it all... So no soapbox please.
What she didn't know, I was listening to you fuckers with open mind. As Elliot typed, it was as though we were in the same room and so I let his wonderful words do my talking.. Thank You Elliot for stripping it all off and tell it as it was/is... Love you man... Firefox, Love you for you insight and book.... yup have the book, but I'm sacred of it. My wife has read more and nods her head a lot.. The rest of this FAMILY, I LOVE YOU ALL. Thanks.

My road to a better ibdave is improving everyday and been to the Doc for the 1st chat and head back for the Bi-polar work up during the end of the month I hope.

Ya think because were paying our COBRA each month, I'd get in faster...
so, I'll keep ya updated and again, thanks for truly SAVING MY LIFE.......

(((((((((((IBD)))))))))))))))))))))

[theCryptofishist]

We're here, dave. Sh*t, I'm so ... *emotional incoherent* ... to hear that so many of my on-line buddies have this dark river in their lives. Part of me really doesn't want to get into it--my rescue was in some ways miraculous. I don't want to peel back onion layers...

I only took one sweat--at summercamp. It was interesting.

[AntiM]

I love you all so much. Thank you.

[ibdave]

I love you all so much. Thank you.

can't say it any better...

I looked down and saw this.....

Users browsing this forum: Elliot, unjonharley and 29 guests

jump in newbi's, only a few of us bite, and a few of you lurkers just might LIKE IT.........

[maryanimal]

I love you all so much. Thank you.

Ditto...well said M! *hugs*

[TinkerMom]

I love you all so much. Thank you.

Ditto...well said M! *hugs*

Same here!!!

Now that the holidays are over I can come out from under my covers. I, too, don't do well
with it. But I have learned to deal with it in all kinds of ways. I totaly enjoy reading this thread.
And can see how we are all so much a like.

(((( hugs to everyone))))

[maryanimal]

*gives Tink a big hug*

[Elliot]

And can see how we are all so much a like.

I may have mentioned this before, but.... At the top of page seven in my copy of Walden, Thoreau states: "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation." He wrote that sometime between 1845 and 1854, but I have a hunch other thinkers preceded him along these lines -- probably by millennia.

It is disquieting to realize that after all these generations, humans have not yet resolved this ingrained hardship. But those of us who survive are bloody well going to keep trying.

[ygmir]

how did I end up as author of this thread? it was Maryanarchist.
or is it just my machine?

[maryanimal]

I noticed that too, but it doesn't matter how it started, it only matters that it's here for whoever needs it, or us...

(((((( squishy tight hugs for all of you)))))))

[ygmir]

yeah, but credit, where credits due, MA...........you did a great service with this thread.

[Elliot]

...or is it just my machine?

Modern (extremely imperfect) technology!

[NessaZee]

((((Elliot))))
((((ibdave))))
((((knowmad))))

((((all of you!!))))

I am so grateful for all the energy given and shared in this thread. Knowing that Elliot and all of you are somewhere close keeps tinges of loneliness manageable. What a gift.

I've wanted to participate in a sweat for a while now. hm. time to get on that.

[NessaZee]

I noticed that too, but it doesn't matter how it started, it only matters that it's here for whoever needs it, or us...

(((((( squishy tight hugs for all of you)))))))

OOoOoOooOoo! I LOVE squishy tight hugs!!

[Elliot]

Knowing that ... all of you are somewhere close keeps tinges of loneliness manageable.

One good thing about the interweb! And then we know that we will all get together for real at least that one week a year, not to be missed.

[FIGJAM]

You missed last year and look what happened!

[maryanimal]

But we will all meet and celebrate each other. I met you Figjam, and a gentleman you were.

[Elliot]

You missed last year and look what happened!

That's no joke!
Although it was definitely my mental troubles that caused me to miss last year in the first place -- my inability to earn a living and pay for the trip. Then in September I started going further downhill -- at least partly because I had missed the highlight of the year. A vicious circle.

[theCryptofishist]

To elevate Elliot's spirits...

[Elliot]

That contraption reminds me of a sci-fi novel where two planets were so close together they shared the same atmosphere. So the people traveled from one to the other by hot air balloon, flipping the thing over at the zero gravity midway point.

[FIGJAM]

You missed last year and look what happened!

That's no joke!
Although it was definitely my mental troubles that caused me to miss last year in the first place -- my inability to earn a living and pay for the trip. Then in September I started going further downhill -- at least partly because I had missed the highlight of the year. A vicious circle.

It's a perscription that only needs to be refilled once a year, Damn it!!!

Consult your HMO!

Thurow was full of shit!!!!!!

If your despirit, be fucking loud about it!!!!!!!!!!!

The pursuit of happiness keeps me destracted from desperasion!