Suicidal Tendencies

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BAS
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby BAS » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:45 pm

I lack the experience to reply to the cantaloupe sex part of the thread (despite having worked in a grocery store), but with regards to the self-love part, I seem to recall hearing something akin to love being when you like someone very much while still perceiving their flaws. If you think you love someone while denying they have any flaws it is infatuation. ("Romantic love" borders on infatuation I seem to recall being said by the same source, which was a guest speaker back when I was in high school way back last century.)

In suppose it would be healthiest for a person to see themselves as a work in progress. After all, if there is nothing left for a person to work on improving, that person's only option is to stagnate.

(Well, now I am going to have to log off and try elevating my left ankle. The %$^#ed thing has decided to bother me again!)
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:59 pm

Hm, graidawg...
For what it's worth what happened to me was a realization (although that may not be the right word, it implies that it happened much quicker) that not only did I have my faults but that I had my good points, and sometimes they were exactly the same thing. In friendship, your low count might indicate not that you are flawed but that you don't give friendship easily and look for quality rather than quantity. On a more practical level, given that you are in your forties--it's harder to meet people than when you were in school and those other sorts of childhood/young adulthood things.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Foxfur » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:59 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Hm, graidawg...
For what it's worth what happened to me was a realization (although that may not be the right word, it implies that it happened much quicker) that not only did I have my faults but that I had my good points, and sometimes they were exactly the same thing. In friendship, your low count might indicate not that you are flawed but that you don't give friendship easily and look for quality rather than quantity. On a more practical level, given that you are in your forties--it's harder to meet people than when you were in school and those other sorts of childhood/young adulthood things.

I've never thought about it that way. That's so true.
I feel that as I've gotten older I've become better at selecting friends and am just not interested in people, though perfectly friendly, who lack substance. It dramatically reduces the pool of potential friends but the ones you find are a real catch!
A great example is having met EspressoDude and Helga. I am honored to call them my friends :). In this case eDude selected me thru a PM so I guess he's pretty selective too :roll: . And only a real friend will bring a sound cannon and a machine gun over to my house, set em up, and step back inviting me to go at it! We're going to meet up at a junkyard tomorrow then go back to his place to see some incredible stuff. Yay for junk!


And BAS :!: I really like that definition of love and infatuation. I guess flaws are part of what makes love. If I can't embrace the flaws then how can I love the person? Thanks for posting that.
You worked in a supermarket and weren't getting your 5 a day? :shock: Oh man... :lol:
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Re: Re:

Postby Elderberry » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:49 pm

Foxfur wrote:
jkisha wrote:Do you eat after you're done fucking it?

Reminds me of that old joke...well of course I would, haven't you ever heard about fucking it then eating the fuck out of it?


I tossed it out the window for the bears. :)

Reminded me of an old army phrase. Ate the fuck up or 8-Up.
Did they have that phrase when you were in?

I don't think so, it would seem like something I would have remembered.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Frostyfire » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:04 am

suicidal tendencies thread huh!? .. well . i wonder if my little story might qualify. 36.gay guy. p.t.s.d derived from years of systematic mental abuse, wrought from the very minds of those said to "help" me . shit starts real early @ childrens behavioral services. when your 8. residential for 4 years. only to go home for a while .. so it could start again when i was 13 . label'd adhd @ 8 so it set the excuse to send me to adolescent treatment center. first for school . then suddenly and without reason given, residential, till 16. many scars there . (A.T.C by the way was located at our collage of knowledge here in reno .. aka the nut house, aka N.... mental health institute in general here. still is to this day) then on to lovely china springs youth camp (bootcamp for troubled teens) 11 months there .. so .. dealing with recurring nightmares of this shit . pannic attacks on a regular baisis (daily at least 1) and trying to deal with everything while my mother slowly dies in front of me. her grandmal siezures keeps me at the house 90% of the day . cant look for a job cause her doc said she cant be left alone at all. my ptsd and yes admitedly aadhd rape the shit outta me constantly. im tired a lot . and i have to keep an up beat mask on all the time for my mom .(seizures,lower spinal surgery,diallasys, vertigo, are just a small part of her medical trainwreck) i tryed to get help a little over a year ago . but i was told my only recourse was to go to NMHI.. not much of an option for me ... best way i could describe it would be ... pow going to the prisoner camp that tortured him for treatment.. much less the nature of the torturer's themselves. and in the knowledge i have gained from living in that environment for so very very long would hinder any such assistance i could hope to recieve from such a place or profession. so sadly i truly believe that i cannot get help. and that im truly on my own. i was about a week away "from checking out" when i was given a reprieve.poi spinning! 1 of the rare few precious things that can actually focus my aadhd on. it gave me long enough to learn about BM and decide to put my plans on hold for at least a little bit . besides spinning fire actually made me happy (truly rare moments indeed) i succeed in living my life to the code of ."and it harm none' love and do what thou will" and i believe that when the universe put me together and said that my job in this world was to make people smile , or laugh . then i have done that . very well . but i live behind that mask . a thing of frustrated helpless pain and rage, an ocean of empty that none can see. held together by the failing dam that is a fadeing life. i exist in constant fear, a shut in for years . no family to speak of,and when mom is gone..... i will be truly alone in this world. sadly im 1 of those that hides emotions very well and have the impromptu psychological training equivalent to that of a masters degree to complete the illusion of a well rounded contented camper.when im anything but. none would ever know,could not know, the depth of the current hole in me, i find excuses to continue my existence. practice,shows,bm, . and yet i find myself slowly dissconecting from those same things as well ... it sucks living in constant fear and sadness . when your future looks like bill after bill of pain in the mail and not enough happy checks to cash them all with......... personal mantra this year ... i just gotta make it through Burningman this year is all.
(yes i have my ticc allready)
so i ask myself (whilst crying) hold the delete button for a few ..... or submit button?
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby MyDearFriend » Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:10 am

(((Frostyfire))) This is your first post? Welcome to you. Thank you for reaching out. This world can be a truly beautiful place.

I'm very sorry about your mother, and your wretched childhood. Many of us know that yawning gulf of rage and fear, and the inner child who weeps alone in darkness and in pain.

But, take my hand here: we are not helpless children any more. We are alive. We have each other. We can be happy.

And, with care and kindness, each of us can find the broken-hearted creature we are shielding, and share a warm embrace.

Bring light into the darkness, Frostyfire. Befriend that child. Be good to yourself today.

And have some fun. 8)
"You can be whoever you want to be, and sometimes people laugh and sometimes they clap, and mostly and beautifully they don't really care."

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Foxfur » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:34 am

Damn Ff, that's a hell of a lot to go through before even reaching the age of majority. I'm glad that you didn't check out and instead decided to check out fire (good taste!), Burning Man, and Eplaya. I appreciate your having shared what you have as this place feels to me like the place to do just that. A look back at some of my posts will show you what I mean. :) I've suffered abuse nearly all of my life, self inflicted due to a part of myself that I could not reconcile until I came here, shared, and heard back from these fine folks. I envy the fact that you seem to have come to terms with your sexuality far earlier than I did which was the reason for my self abuse. Maintaining a facade for decades can kill you slowly and inspire you to speed up the process in an awful DIY manner. It's never the answer. Review this thread and look at some of the answers as to why a number of us decided not to do it. Note that it's not just family that has prevented it but friends also. When your mother is released from the body that is sadly failing her, you will still have your friends who love you. Please consider what their losing you would do to them. They love you and leaving them in this manner would devastate them and leave them wondering for years what happened, why they didn't catch the warning signs, what they could have done ("If I only did xxxxx maybe he would still be here...), , etc. At times that was the only thing that kept me hanging on. That and having known how I felt when I lost a love of mine to her own hand as well as too many other friends. It sounds like you might live in a town that I visited very recently. A town where I was shown the love and friendship of many people. People that I met HERE though I'd never met them in person. On arrival I was treated like a long known friend, shown by them a hospitality that blew my mind, and shown a trust by them that could have only been developed here. A number of them took me into their homes and hearts and treated me like family. You've no idea just thow much that meant to me or how much I needed that due to my tendency to withdraw and being isolated by my caregiving duty to my wonderful wife. I am now a much more complete person, getting out and meeting new people, engaging strangers in conversation, finding out that I am likeable no matter what I've told myself in the past.
Thank you for jumping right in and sharing what you have. Sounds like this thread came along just when you needed it. I no longer believe in coincidence due to this place and the wonderful things that have sprung forth as a result of sharing myself here.
Welcome!
Keep coming back, it works! :D
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Frostyfire » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:01 am

indeed . 1 hell of a first posting . sorry if bummed anyone out . so not the intent . i just figured i would get the underlying me out of the way . considering you would have no idea it was me if you met me irl. i hide pain internaly and my mask is flawless. i loathe to share anything about myself of that nature considering where the subject matter could lead me (locked in some soul shriveling hell of a psyche ward on some insipid deathwatch kind of thing) i decided to reach out.. here i suppose would be as good as anywhere else . i have tryed to get help where i live, but the resources i guess just dont exist, and what information i have gotten has ben ... well your fucked.... kinda thing . so the options are even more limmited here . its almost like if i do ever decide to do the perverbial deed .. i had better do it right the first time cause if i fk it up .. even worse waits after. 1 of the warning sighns are having a plan , the more detailed the worse it is .. shit iv had a plan for the past 10 years( a few of em really) and yes i fully understand the ramifications to friends. (mom is the only family i have) my buddy pete . havent seen in years since he moved to penn state. vinny , yea he would be sad . but again we rarely see eachother .he lives 1 state over... besides life goes on, the world and universe marches to its own beat regardless of wheather we or i are here or not . so sadly no . little or no impact at all from my sudden dissapearance ,, i seriously believe it wouldnt even be noticed for years that i was gone at all. 98% of my daily interactions with people are . plug n play. bubblegum. ahhh single serving friends, anyone of meaning in my life has either long gone away . on to lives of there own. or just faded out for some reason or another ... my fire spinning troup you ask?? yea can you say cliquey .. verry cliquey. and as the only gay male there... il just say that i dont fit in . im in a clique of 1 . always . and in everything i do. this will not change. i could go to a thousand festivals . with millions of people. and still be an ocean of emptyness inside... as for the beauty and light . i see it everywhere. in every new days dawn . every sunset that throws pink peach and copper fire across the cloud laden sky. when i stretch languidly out at my favorite lake while the wind carresses my naked skin. splashing in a puddle after a strong rain. (i think the universe just likes splashing puddles) so please dont think for a min that i dont appreciate every day we are all on this dust mote we call home. im just tired of the monthly recurring nightmares, random daily pannic attacks,the very real threat of having everything taken away at without notice (moms passing would facilitate an immediate homelessness on my part) and the knowledge that if i ever truly needed that kind of help (which 1 one day i will if my life stays on this track) it wont be there. and if it is . it would come in the form of those that did the dammage in the first place... as for my inner child!? sentiments appreciated, but sadly hees ben commatose since i was 9. its ben up to adult me ever since. im trying to snap him out of it . why do you think im going to burningman . maybe i can find out what it means to be happy . even if its only for a short time . maybe il be to buisy to remember my past and just be in the moment . they say its a life changeing experience out there .. im fervently preying it is . im preying it awakens my soul to something better than what is my life now. that my innerchild will feel the need to step to the fore and fill the missing places in me and start to heal the rusted over edges of this old and festering wound in my heart n soul. i want to feel the light inside . instead of just seeing the projection of it. i want my mask to be real , to feel in my heart what i project to others. i guess im tired of being a smiling fraud. humor ! its a grate weapon . keeps people from seeing any inner pain. there usually laughing to hard to notice.
shit .. 2nd post n just as heavy n long winded as the last
Frosty fire :cry:
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby MyDearFriend » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:55 am

(((Frostyfire))) Do you have your ticket? Please look at it. If you are "will call" then, I can send you a scan of mine. It will tell you, in the upper left-hand corner, that you are a Transitional Being. 8)

Please believe it. We are not stuck. Come come come come along with us as we become who we can be.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby graidawg » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:21 am

frosty, If you have read this post and looked at my other posts or foxyfurs, you will see that both of us where in a pretty low state when we came here, foxy has found a better joy than the mask He wore and I have scrapped my plan to do exactly what you are talking about. Both of us from what we have found on here, there are many many threads where the peole here share real soul destroying things - not because its anonymouse but because we all plan to meet (eplaya meet n greet thursday 6pm). Many of us meet reguarly in the real world and we share US our real feelings how we feel, not using a mask to pretend or the safety of an internet forum to lance a little of that poison but the safety of this internet forum to share ourselves with people who accept us for what we are, if we try our best and do what we can they will help -WILL HELP.

I have found an army of friends here who have turned my world around - im going to burning man now to meet them more than anything. Dont get me wrong i want to see every damn shiny thing there is too see and play with fire and dance till i cant stand. I know at some point its all going to be a bit much, probably more than once and you no what? thats fine because if ive learnt one thing from being on here, i'm not alone.

you have had a far far more traumatic childhood than me, and i simply cannot imagine what it was like for you, but i do know this, you can let it go and reach out someone will be there if you try.

come to burning man frostyfire and you will get hugs and be a part of something that wants you to join in (it says so on the main site) please put away the mask and be who you are at - better yet be who you want to be it may stick with you far longer that this thing in the desert we are all going to

((((((frostyfire))))))) claim that hug anytime you want

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby OregonRed » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:26 am

Up until very recently, I had never been close to someone who committed suicide. That changed on May 31 when my friend and tattoo artist drove to a small coastal town and shot himself in the head in a restaurant parking lot. He'd finished my most recent piece (a tribute to my daughter, JekJek) two weeks before, and I had seen him and had a great conversation two nights before he did it. He never said a word.

His shop was two doors down from where I work and drink and still, I expect to see him outside, having a cigarette and snarking on the yuppies who walk by under his breath. It breaks my heart a little whenever I realize that I won't see him there again.

Some days I'm alright and can remember Jeff without tears and even smile and laugh over my memories. Other days I'm furious with him for despairing silently and not telling any one of his friends that he was hurting so badly. Other days it just makes me sad that such a bright flame was extinguished so early.

I hope your friend is doing better maryanimal. Be grateful that she reached out. I really wish that Jeff had.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby snake » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:52 am

frostyfire...do you keep journals? you have a very nice writing style. are you a writer? writers, mostly by necessity, are loners. i think you're a writer and sharing these types of thoughts and torments can really help others that go thru similar trials. sometimes its 'wow, and i thought i had it bad' or 'boy, i can really relate, somebody has really articulated my brain loops'. you can be a voice for others that don't have that ability. their are many internet sites, or start your own blog. i'm sure you will find a following of those that care.

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Frostyfire » Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:23 am

admit 1 transitional being" --- indeed . that could be misconstrued to mean 1 being in transition from this plane of existence to the next (tho i fully get what it means just a play on words here is all).. and as i have related to a mutual aquaitence here ... the universe will guide me as it sees fit while i am out there for my first year. i will neither search anyone out. or expect to be searched for while i am there. the universe will show me what i need to see and know while i am there. i will make every attempt to truly be in the moment. what ever that moment may be. yes im currently sliding down the despair slide. but honestly this site is helping .(props to all those that give more than 2 shits) insights galore, some irony, and yet a touch of anxiety, looking at previous posts in more detail after my 2nd post . the bit about elaborate planing and the informing of the 911 people.... which mean lockdown, torturers and personal hell. that alone will and has facilitated an intense fight or flight reticence to meet anyone irl from this site. gods know whom among any of yall could be and or is a licenced therapist that would feel a legal/personal obligation to intervein because yes .. i am suicidal!.. have ben for years . and its only the unyielding fact that it would devastate and could quite literaly kill her, that i have not acted on any of my alternate or primary method of self termination. i can only say that i know i will be in desperate need of help when she passes .. my connection to this mortal coil will be tennious at best. its allready strained as it is .. hence my reaching out any way i can. before its to late for me........ she cant live forever.

re ... no im not a wrighter at all .. avid reader tho . when most kids my age were reading "the pokey little puppy" i was engaged in such literature as . Robert A Heinlien's "the star beast" and of course the narnia books . so it should not come as much of a surprise that my vocabulary is rather extensive end expansive, or that i have a gift for oratory descriptives presented in literary formation...i guess it helps to wright what you know and feel .........

3ish more weeks to go till playa time :|
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby NellieX » Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:03 am

This thread is making me so, so sad, yet I'm strangely comforted by knowing there are others on here who struggle with the same feelings.

After a childhood filled with very little emotional nurturing (oh, we weren't neglected physically, we had everything...what we lacked was the love, support, and encouragement your parents are supposed to provide. My mom was physically abusive, although she'd call it "discipline", and remains extremely mentally and verbally abusive to this day. I think my dad tried, but after years of being verbally beaten down by my mother, he just kind of gave up and doesn't offer much in the way of support. Their way of doing things is to throw money at you, and if that doesn't fix everything YOU'RE a selfish beast and a bad person), and almost 5 years of struggling with an eating disorder (after a lifetime of abnormal eating), things have kind of gotten to an extreme low-point, and suicide has been constantly in the back of my head. I don't have a plan, per say, but its scary to know how easy it would be for me to commit to it, during one of my low points, when I'm not thinking rationally or clearly.

Less than 6 months ago, a girl I knew through an online ED support community committed suicide. She'd been living with her abusive parents, dating an abusive man, and her decline could be tracked over the course of 3 months. Her posts got increasingly dark and hopeless, and her normally vulgar language became almost squeaky clean (strangely, this was our biggest indicator that something was not right). The night before she killed herself, she made a post on Facebook asking people to call her. No one did. The next day her parents found her in her car, with a plastic bag over her head and a tube running from the bag to her car's exhaust pipe. People are still reeling from the loss.

I don't know if we could have saved her, but I wish someone had tried. I wish I had asked her for her number instead of ignoring the warning signs. I wish my phobia of phonecalls hadn't prevented me from reaching out to someone who needed ANYONE to listen to her. It scares me to think that some day I could reach that point, and make one final call for help, and there might be no response.

The best thing we can do is be there for our friends. Never take a threat of suicide lightly, and learn to recognize the signs. You can try to help someone, and even if you don't succeed, at least you tried, and that's what's important.

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby OregonRed » Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:21 am

(((((NellieX)))))
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Foxfur » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:47 am

snake wrote:frostyfire...do you keep journals? you have a very nice writing style. are you a writer? writers, mostly by necessity, are loners. i think you're a writer and sharing these types of thoughts and torments can really help others that go thru similar trials. sometimes its 'wow, and i thought i had it bad' or 'boy, i can really relate, somebody has really articulated my brain loops'. you can be a voice for others that don't have that ability. their are many internet sites, or start your own blog. i'm sure you will find a following of those that care.

Starting a blog is a wonderful idea. A friend recently encouraged me to start blogging. I'm so glad she did and I'm so glad that I did. While I am certainly not in a suicidal state and do not expect to be ever again, the blog has helped me to process some of my recent and tremendous life and lifestyle changes. It allows me to articulate my thoughts, share those thoughts with others, and recieve feedback on those thoughts. It also provides a wonderful outlet for my creative writing proclivities! It's fun to share my thoughts, feelings, and ideas with others and gives me a great feeling of accomplishment with every post completed. I can share my deepest as well as lightest ideas and give others the opportunity to think, laugh, or pass. It's not fair to friends and loved ones to keep yourself inside and locked away. Sometimes what you think others should not hear is exactly what you should say!
And Sweetpea is so happy I've done so. That right there is reason enough :)

(((((Frostyfire)))))
(((((NellieX)))))

Hang in there, ok? We don't want to lose you right after we've found you.
We need you every bit as much as you need us.
Soon we will all be together in dust, together in trust...
You WILL be there, understand?
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby graidawg » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:46 am

frosty just do something, you are reaching out now there are people here who will be hurt, very very hurt if you stop now we all need each other. carry on trying join in on the other threads i am sure you will find you have plenty to add and that on its own is one reason to carry on
nellie xxx (((hug))) its difficult when you see other people suffer more obvious hurts but i see how you feel dont let it drag you down

big hugs to you all
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby BAS » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:38 pm

Frostyfire-- I really don't know what to write, but I do hope you will hold on, even if only for your mother's sake. (My mom's health has been declining, although not as bad as you mother's it is still sad to watch.)

I spent most of July in bed with what turned out to be physical symptoms of anxiety and depression. (I think I am developing a resistance to Prozac.) At the investigatory meeting which proceeds the pre-disciplinary meeting (followed by the disciplinary meeting, which is followed by ANOTHER meeting, of course!) I had today, being cited with a variety of charges for not getting the two floors of bathrooms done in Ogg Hall quickly enough, I came right out and told them that a major part of the anxiety was that I won't be able to "afford to live after the end of August!" I really hadn't intended to say it that way-- it just came out. At the end of August our pay is DECREASING, our payment into our health insurance is INCREASING, we will now have co-payments on our medical visits as well as medication (and it will all be percentage based instead of a fixed amount.) Added to that, my rent is being increased (by a modest amount-- my landlord simply can't afford to keep my rent at its current level), and my car needs something done about its exhaust (AGAIN!) because right now the only thing keeping me from getting monoxide poisoning it that I can keep the windows open. After I told them all this, their solution is that I should look into public assistance. I have no idea how this will go. As an employee of the University of Wisconsin-- Madison I HAD hoped that they would have a better solution than Wal-Mart. I suppose I have unrealistic expectations, since the Housing Department seems to the department the most excited over the prospect over the Union losing power. (I don't think that they realize that it isn't just the Union which will lose out, or the workers under them. A really good sounding argument could be made for privatizing Housing, while cutting most of managements jobs in the process. Or at the very least, cutting their benefits, too.) All in all, I don't think my supervisor or her supervisor made the connection between my anxiety and depression and that I had been having trouble getting my work done. I have GOT to find a way out of that place! The only things which have been keeping me there has been the health insurance and retirement. (To keep those I need a different State job.)

Anyway, I'm sorry for hijacking the thread. As the supervisors and union steward pointed out, at least I have a job. And the public assistance here in Madison, Wisconsin is (at least hypothetically) better than is most places. I don't even have a suicide plan (I'm not convinced that death would be an improvement. Having read about life after death experiences, it sounds like you are still in the same mental anguish and can do even less about it. Plus, I don't like the idea of letting the depression win.) If I did commit suicide, I think I would like to do so in the middle of an ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Council-- the driving force behind the attack on the middle and lower class) convention-- that should set the tone nicely....

Just hang in there, and get to Burning Man. Don't expect miracles, but maybe you will at least get inspiration. Or, at least, connections. All different sorts of people go there, maybe you will meet the right one or ones who can help you out some way or another. Heck, go there for ME, since I can't make it, if nothing else. I'm hoping for the best for you.

P.S.: You might want to look into books on lucid and creative dreaming. Maybe if you can take control of the nightmares you can overcome them. The best book I ever found on the subject is "Creative Dreaming" by Patrica Garfield, which might be out of print but I believe used copies still show up on Amazon and are pretty cheap.

Good luck.
"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.
Do things that have never been done."
--Russell Kirsch

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NellieX
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby NellieX » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:53 pm

((((OregonRed))))
((((Foxfur))))

For a bunch of snarky assholes, you guys sure are sweet ;)

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BAS
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby BAS » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:56 pm

NellieX wrote:The best thing we can do is be there for our friends. Never take a threat of suicide lightly, and learn to recognize the signs. You can try to help someone, and even if you don't succeed, at least you tried, and that's what's important.


That is very good advice.
"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.
Do things that have never been done."
--Russell Kirsch

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby miracle » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:08 pm

So sorry to hear about your friend. Outside of the Playa I am a Licensed counselor who works primarily with abuse/trauma, and families. Some insight that may be helpful for you to know about when someone is thinking about suicide, and some questions you may want to ask them
1. Do they have a plan?
2. Do they have the means to carry out the plan?
3. What keeps them from carrying out the plan?
4. Can they promise you they will not do it?

Here is what I think about when I ask these questions to my clients.

1. If they have a plan is it specific - if it is you know they have put some thought into it. If it is not specific, they may just be feeling like we all do sometime...
2. If they have the means to carry it out - this is a HUGE red flag. You need to tell someone if they have a plan and the means to carry out their plan. Tell their family, theur friends, and if you have to call 911. DO NOT worry about keeping a promise, if they have asked you to. It is far better to break trust and possibly lose a friend due to lack of them trusting you (but in essence you have protected them from hurting themself) than to have them take action on hurting themself.
3. If they cannot tell you what hope they have in life... what keeps them from hurting themself - this is a pretty big red flag as well.
4. Lastly, if they cannot promise to you that they will not do it - big red flag. Why would it be difficult for them to make the promise that they would not hurt themself, if they truly were not thinking about taking action on hurting themself.

Anyways, I hope this helps. Good luck with your friend. I wish you and her the best!

Miracle

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Frostyfire » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:04 am

Hang in there, ok? We don't want to lose you right after we've found you.
We need you every bit as much as you need us.
Soon we will all be together in dust, together in trust...
You WILL be there, understand?[/quote]


hanging in there for now... its the best i have for ye these days.......



went for a walk today out in the woods (not hard to do in my area) and i happened to come across a tree.... no big thing there really eccept ............ for the knife sticking out of it kinda high up on the trunk . perhaps a teenager or shortish person having a bit of fun and lost there blade... i stared at this thing for over an hour... reflecting, seeing myself in this damned tree. thankfully im well over 6ft and the blade was as nothing for me to extract. how long had it ben there i wondered? how long had that tree suffered with that blade inside of it? and would it be there still if i had not removed it? .... im keeping the blade,the universe put it there for a reason, it has something to tell me . just dont know what.... yet !
"the universe is as it should be"
"we live , we learn , we grow "

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Frostyfire » Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:53 am

damn good day today ! mom got out of the house. we went to a friends birthday party (so burner style) she had a blast . actually drank a little beer that she said she was craving for a while. i spun some fire as well . she loved it as did everyone else. me yea admitedly a glowing moment . its a wonderful thing tho to see her truly happy. and some new burners i had never met before were there as well . mostly temple crew members i think..... very interesting folk . more inteligent than your average huminal (human animal) . it was refreshing to share in that rather unique energy that passes between burners. i have no words to fully articulate the emotion?,feel?,..(i cant explain vibes) energy!..... and for the first time since learning that yes im going to burningman i was excited truly excited. had that little diddy float through my head .. going to burningman going to burningman,, burningman,burningman..(lucy daughter of the devil)....truth told i think its from the feeling of family that i have ben missing since nana died when i was 12. we had family reunions when she was alive . when she died they stopped . i know i have aunts and uncles out there . but i wouldnt recognise them if i saw them ,or they me .bill says (yes damnit bill bill) BM is like going to a family reunion with 50k+ relatives that you have never met before!... is this true ?? because if it remotely is then that is definately something to "stick around for"... so to all my burgeoning friends who have taken the time to impart universal truth in my path i thank you. tip my hat to the universe for a good day . send up my intentions to the universe that you all are safe . happy. and well in your worlds . :)


p.s Bloging?? what is it ?how is it done ? (utter technotard here)
"the universe is as it should be"
"we live , we learn , we grow "

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Foxfur » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:07 pm

Yay Frosty!
It feels so nice when you see a loved one in pain gain a temporary reprieve and you can see the happy person emerge from a long slumber and be present in the moment.
When my sweetpea has these moments it brings my heart so much joy and makes her inevitable decline a bit easier. When we have no idea and no schedule to these random emergences it can be very depressing. We just have to bear in mind that they may have more and that can give us the drive to carry on when all seems lost.
Your being there for her in her time of need shows us your humanity. That humanity sustains both of you and will serve you well if you allow it to. Coming to terms with her mortality and accepting her eventual passing on is a very tough thing to do but if done it can bring more peace than you imagine. It can temper your loss at a time when you will need it and can save your life. Please continue to post and share your progress. It sounds like this is exactly what you needed and exactly when you needed it.
He's a mystery wrapped in a riddle, inside an enigma, painted in hot pants. - Savannah
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby swampdog » Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:02 pm

Frostyfire - so many of us have been down there wrestling with the black dog. Fuck! On a scale where I judge my mental health, "measuring rope" is about the lowest I've gotten. It sounds like you've lived there for months at a time. That is fucking exhausting.

It sounds like you're in Reno and you've found the temple build crew. I was going to suggest you do that. They're starting to transition out towards the playa but there's some damned fine people there and some good things to do with your day. My only concern with this suggestion is that people may be in full on "no time for distractions" mode. PM me if you want contacts there.

Here's one thing that helps me survive. Make a promise to someone that you'll call them before you act. A close friend is best, but it could be a stranger. Preferably someone who can come and sit with you if you need it. I would be glad to be that person for you although I could only be with you on the phone.

One thing that works against me is booze. It makes it worse. It can help me get thru the nights but I pay for it the next day, and night. I'm more irritable and unhappy with myself after drinking. 12 step programs have the advantage of surrounding you with other fucked up people who have been through their own hells. Whether you want to quit or not, knowing you're not alone can be very powerful.

One corny thing I'm trying currently that seems to help is a gratitude journal. I just write down every day, something I'm grateful for. It helps.

Do please try to come to the meet n greet at Burning Man. I'd love to meet you and I'm sure a lot of others would.

PM me if you want further contact details.

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Frostyfire » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:01 am

dear foxfur . out of everyone here i can relate to you the best. we both know the pains ,trials, tribulations ,and general helplessness of being a caregiver. :cry: we also share the same intense fleeting joys when they smile :mrgreen: but admitedly to few and far between do we have these moments . and all to often can i count on the random "god hates me" "i want to die" and "please god kill me" from her.. and when i tell her how it makes me feel . she tones it down for a few days .. then its right back to it again. :evil: .. i cant get away from it (again 24-7 supervision) at all . exhausting is an understatement!. how do you ???? decompress (pun intended). im going to see if a friend of hers can come over and hang out for the day .. so i can go to (yes i live in reno) tahoe for the day.. i so need a zen day.. :|


dear swampdog. im sorry you were to the point of measuring rope . its a horrible feeling.i dont spend months here,iv spent years here, i live there still. the trek to and from the mine can be a long one when your at that x-road., (heh i grew up here .. yall think you know the desert!?...."snicker snicker") temple crew: not an option . moms health is such that ... well you get the idea. i do know several folks from temple .. beyond the build. (they live here to lol) ........

promises and notification: no one closeish to me knows anything! again flawless illusion. im far FAR to private an individual to tell anyone anything. A. they would try to stop me. B official bubblegum lights clean white coats kinda folks come to take me away (again death first), which takes us back to A. C.they do not need to be burden'd by me, they have enough to deal with. D. folks change when they know your an emotionally fucked up huminal, id rather see the smile of hello than the smile of concern...... (which segways into)

meeting on the playa: again and sadly no .... few reasons really .but most lame excuses, admitedly. but the prevelant among them being the fact that yes some of you are licenced psychoshrinkers (my personal monicer) folks that would in all likely hood trigger a massive panic attack. if your familiar with them . there not plesant . even minor ones. its the profession. not the people . so please try not to take it personaly. if you do run into me at home please do not tell me your profession ,LIE THROUGH YOUR TEETH IF YOU HAVE TO,and please dont let me know you know me from here . i go by Frosty. respond to it as if it were my real first name. and will be intruduceing myself as such.the old addage is appt here "ignorance is bliss" and my memory is shit when it comes to names (faces tho. memory like a camera) so its doubtfull il know any of you out there (foxfur the acception and we have allready spoken about this)..

just know .. this is helping . more than i thought it would . i feel a lot better reading through all of your heartfelt desires to see me stick around. and the insights i glean from each read over (yes i re read these a few times)... if its any comfort to y'all. i have planed to post ... something .... if im ever getting that far down the mine. (what ?? i know where several mines are , found em as a kid)

p.s Foxfur. i firmly believe the universe put us in each others path for a profound mutual reason. i see it more and more every day. i see the borrowed light of the angels in each of us for the other at a time that we needed them...
"the universe is as it should be"
"we live , we learn , we grow "

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby swampdog » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:56 am

Well, first off, I totally get the :don't want the white coats involved. If I ever were to make an 'attempt', well, it wouldn't be an attempt it would be successful. What could be worse than to be hauled back damaged by a failed attempt to live out in shame and pity?

I was going to make an offer "if you call me at the the last moment I promise not to call the white coats" but I can't promise that, can I?

I'm not a shrink, just a fellow sufferer who thinks about these things a lot. Probably way too much.

I'm going to PM you a couple of names of people who live in Reno and are involved in Temple crew that I think you might connect with

Please recognize the cost of maintaining the 'flawless illusion'. Sometimes it helps me to go to a mall or someplace flooded with people and look as deeply as I can (within the social bounds) and think, "just another fucking cripple", another person fighting their way through the days with all the handicaps and pain of being human.

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:50 am

Frostyfire wrote:B official bubblegum lights clean white coats kinda folks come to take me away

Given the current state of the safety net and unwillingness of private insurance to cover mental illness, no, they won't come.
talking about these things can make a difference. If you don't want to talk to any one directly, keeping a journal can be very interesting.
Given the current state of the safety net, finding additional caregivers for your mother is likely to be hard. But I think you might need some "alone time" in all this. Some time to decompress, rather than bearing that weight alone.
Good luck.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby FIGJAM » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:02 pm

"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Frostyfire » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:45 am

standard day .. still trying to get to Tahoe sometime . hopefully sometime before 10ish ...
"the universe is as it should be"
"we live , we learn , we grow "


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