2004 Democratic National Convention

All things outside of Burning Man.
psyntist
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2004 Democratic National Convention

Post by psyntist » Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:36 pm

Hello,

I am writing in search of other burners who are going to this event. I was recently elected as a delegate and would love to know if any other burner or burner types are going as delegates.

So if you or anyone you know is going please get in touch with me.

crystal @ apathyiscool . com Trying to keep my email from the bots.

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Post by Simply Joel » Tue Jun 29, 2004 1:09 pm

The blind leading the blind...
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psyntist
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Post by psyntist » Tue Jun 29, 2004 1:27 pm

I was kind of hoping to not make this political discussion. I am simply asking if anyone else will be there.

That said, the blind leading the blind is better than letting someone else lead you around with out your input or say.

One thing I learned from being a part of this thing called Burning Man is that if you want to see something happen you have to make it happen. The old do-ocracy. The US works on a very similiar ideal.

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Post by cowboyangel » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:57 pm

Simply Joel wrote:The blind leading the blind...
oh come on Joel...lay off the useless attacks for awhile will ya.........
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by cowboyangel » Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:00 pm

psyntist wrote:I was kind of hoping to not make this political discussion. I am simply asking if anyone else will be there.

That said, the blind leading the blind is better than letting someone else lead you around with out your input or say.

One thing I learned from being a part of this thing called Burning Man is that if you want to see something happen you have to make it happen. The old do-ocracy. The US works on a very similiar ideal.
good luck at the convention psyntist.......stay safe
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by rev. lucifer » Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:11 pm

I see your plan, make a difference from the inside. Good plan and good luck. :D
"I only became the Pope because of the hat!?"

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Post by Wind_Borne » Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:31 pm

Psyntist,

The party conventions seem like a quaint anachronism left over from the days before primaries. Aside from providing free air-time to the candidates, what do modern conventions do?
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
-- George Washington

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Post by rev. lucifer » Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:00 pm

Get alot of people together. :roll:
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Post by Wind_Borne » Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:50 pm

rev. lucifer wrote:"I only became the Pope because of the hat!?"
That tall, phallic hat?
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
-- George Washington

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Post by Wind_Borne » Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:54 pm

Seriously. The Dems are spending over 63 million dollars on their convention. They couldn't think of something better to do with that money?
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
-- George Washington

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Post by Tancorix » Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:07 pm

Wind_Borne wrote: Aside from providing free air-time to the candidates, what do modern conventions do?
I know that the broadcast networks plan to seriously scale back their coverage of the conventions unlike years past so the free air-time will be at a premium this year.

As for what the conventions really do: Create chaos for commuters, shut down interstates and mass transit, wreck city budgets, tax various infrastructure systems, sell lots of Excedrin and Tagamet to security professionals, and make lots of money for the right people in the right places.

Some of the project work I've helped with this year is tied to the Democratic convention in Boston, and is helping fund my trip to BRC this year. So I love those conventions!

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Post by rev. lucifer » Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:58 pm

yes, isn't it beau :twisted: tiful?
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Post by rev. lucifer » Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:59 pm

that was " beautiful. :twisted: "
"I only became the Pope because of the hat!?"

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Post by Simply Joel » Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:19 pm

cowboyangel wrote:
Simply Joel wrote:The blind leading the blind...
oh come on Joel...lay off the useless attacks for awhile will ya.........
pray tell, when does a simple observation become an attack?

oh yeah... that is liberal logic and thinking... that is how.
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Post by Bambi of Finland » Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:12 pm

Good luck Psyntist. Pay no attention to the little man behind the curtains.

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another simple observation sure to set your hair afire...

Post by Simply Joel » Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:32 pm

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!


slap my salmon, baby

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Post by Rob the Wop » Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:38 pm

Question: What is the difference between a liberal and a madman?

Answer: Madmen are locked up for continually spouting insane bullshit.

Just doing my duty in stirring the pot...
[b]The other, other white meat.[/b]

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Post by Simply Joel » Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:42 pm

"The principle feature of American liberalism is sanctimoniousness. By loudly denouncing all bad things--war and hunger and date rape--liberals testify to their own terrific goodness. More important, they promote themselves to membership in a self-selecting elite of those who care deeply about such things. . . . It´s a kind of natural aristocracy, and the wonderful thing about this aristocracy is that you don´t have to be brave, smart, strong or even lucky to join it, you just have to be liberal." P.J. O'Rourke
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!


slap my salmon, baby

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You might be a democrat if you've ever said...

Post by Simply Joel » Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:08 pm

"But look at all the good Ted Kennedy has done for the women of this country!"
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Post by samtzu » Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:55 pm

Joel wrote:
"But look at all the good Ted Kennedy has done for the women of this country!"
Joel,

While I may disagree with much of what you say, I will defend your right to say it, because every once in a while you hit the nail on the head so hard it power-drives itself down through the wood!!! Thanks! I needed that righteous sense of perspective!!!

Sam :lol:
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Post by cowboyangel » Tue Jul 06, 2004 6:33 pm

Simply Joel wrote:"The principle feature of American liberalism is sanctimoniousness. By loudly denouncing all bad things--war and hunger and date rape--liberals testify to their own terrific goodness. More important, they promote themselves to membership in a self-selecting elite of those who care deeply about such things. . . . It´s a kind of natural aristocracy, and the wonderful thing about this aristocracy is that you don´t have to be brave, smart, strong or even lucky to join it, you just have to be liberal." P.J. O'Rourke
if you just substitute the word "conservative" for every incidence of the word liberal and replace 'war and hunger and date rape with "tax relief ( for Billionaires), welfare reform ( meaning welfare elimination) and "a few bad apples" (instead of a military/private contractor alliance corrupted by power and torture ) you get pretty much the same sense from this flawed extrusion from the hit or miss O'Rourke


Is O'Rourke some kind of god for you? you're making the quotes biblical in stature....
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by Simply Joel » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:55 am

Q: Why does a Kennedy always have red eyes after sex??




A: Mace.
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Post by VerbenaMaya » Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:12 am

:lol: Thanks joel, I needed that last one.
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But what they don't tell you is that every time you hear a mouse trap snap, an Angel gets set on fire.
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Ron
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Post by Ron » Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:52 am

VerbenaMaya wrote::lol: Thanks joel, I needed that last one.
That's funny, I heard that one with "Redneck," substituted for Kennedy....

Ron

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Post by cowboyangel » Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:09 am

there've been a rash o these substitution things going around.........
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by Simply Joel » Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:27 am

cowboyangel wrote:if you just substitute the word "conservative" for every incidence of the word liberal and replace 'war and hunger and date rape with "tax relief ( for Billionaires), welfare reform ( meaning welfare elimination) and "a few bad apples" (instead of a military/private contractor alliance corrupted by power and torture ) you get pretty much the same sense from this flawed extrusion from the hit or miss O'Rourke
I did this as you instructed... and as you know, it didn't sound like you had anticipated.
cowboyangel wrote:Is O'Rourke some kind of god for you? you're making the quotes biblical in stature....
To answer you directly.... no and no...

you seem to make the supreme being/deity references, not i.

I just think P.J. hits the mark, and does it with a sense of wry humor.
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!


slap my salmon, baby

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Post by cowboyangel » Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:13 am

Translator in Eye of Storm on Retroactive Classification
By Anne E. Kornblut
Boston Globe

Monday 05 July 2004

Washington - Sifting through old classified materials in the days after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, FBI translator Sibel Edmonds said, she made an alarming discovery: Intercepts relevant to the terrorist plot, including references to skyscrapers, had been overlooked because they were badly translated into English.

Edmonds, 34, who is fluent in Turkish and Farsi, said she quickly reported the mistake to an FBI superior. Five months later, after flagging what she said were several other security lapses in her division, she was fired. Now, after more than two years of investigations and congressional inquiries, Edmonds is at the center of an extraordinary storm over US classification rules that sheds new light on the secrecy imperative supported by members of the Bush administration.

In a rare maneuver, Attorney General John Ashcroft has ordered that information about the Edmonds case be retroactively classified, even basic facts that have been posted on websites and discussed openly in meetings with members of Congress for two years. The Department of Justice also invoked the seldom-used "state secrets" privilege to silence Edmonds in court. She has been blocked from testifying in a lawsuit brought by victims of the Sept. 11 attacks and was allowed to speak to the panel investigating the Sept. 11 attacks only behind closed doors.

Meanwhile, the FBI has yet to release its internal investigation into her charges. And the Senate Judiciary Committee, which oversees the bureau, has been stymied in its attempt to get to the bottom of her allegations. Now that the case has been retroactively classified, lawmakers are wary of discussing the details, for fear of overstepping legal bounds.

"I'm alarmed that the FBI is reaching back in time and classifying information it provided two years ago," Senator Charles E. Grassley, a Republican from Iowa and a leading advocate for Edmonds, said last Friday. "Frankly, it looks like an attempt to impede legitimate oversight of a serious problem at the FBI."

Edmonds, a naturalized US citizen who grew up in Turkey and Iran, said in an interview last week that the ordeal has made her grow disillusioned with the "magical system of checks and balances and separation of powers" that had made her so drawn to the United States. "What I came to see is that it exists only in name," Edmonds said. "Where is the oversight? Who is there to stop him [Ashcroft]?"

In a development that legal analysts say is disturbing, a pattern of retroactive classifications has begun to emerge in recent years, all of them pertaining to - but not limited to - national security. For example, Representative John F. Tierney, Democrat of Massachusetts, is locked in an ongoing battle with the Defense Department over testing requirements for a national missile defense system that were made public in 2000 but have since been declared classified.

Bush administration officials argue that the three-year campaign against terrorism has required unprecedented levels of confidentiality, especially inside intelligence and law enforcement agencies. Critics do not dispute the need for heightened secrecy in the current environment. Edmonds is careful not to discuss standard classified information, such as methods the FBI used to obtain the material she translated.

But she and a growing number of her defenders - who include a government watchdog group, some Sept. 11 families, and Grassley, a Bush administration ally - maintain that the secrecy imposed on her case has jeopardized national security. One of Edmonds's assertions to her superiors included suspicions of espionage within the FBI, which she said the bureau has not addressed.

"Their [the administration's] mantra seems to be that secrecy promotes safety, and I don't think that's true," said David Vladeck, a Georgetown University law professor who is representing the watchdog group Project on Government Oversight in a lawsuit challenging the retroactive classification. "At times, I think secrecy breeds suspicion."

Edmonds's native skills drew her to languages. Born in Istanbul, raised for seven years in Tehran, with Azerbaijani relatives on her father's side, she speaks three languages crucial to intelligence-gathering in the Middle East. She does not speak Arabic. But her specialty languages were no less important after Sept. 11, 2001, when investigators began tracking Al Qaeda and other terrorist connections in Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, and Iran.

She had a job application at the FBI before Sept. 11, and it was accelerated after the attacks so she could start work Sept. 20. One of her main assignments, she said, was to expedite requested translations from field agents, including material that a field agent in Arizona submitted for retranslation on a suspicion that it had not been examined thoroughly before Sept. 11.

"After I retranslated it verbatim, I went to my supervisor to say, 'I need to talk to this agent over a secure line because what we came across in this retranslating is gigantic, it has specific information about certain specific activity related to 9/11,' " Edmonds recalled. "The supervisor blocked this retranslation from being sent to the same agent. The reasoning this [supervisor] gave me was, 'How would you like it if another translator did this same thing to you? The original translator is going to be held responsible.' "

In the end, Edmonds said, the field agent who requested a reinterpretation of the intelligence material "knew there were things that were missing, and yet he was reassured by the Washington field office that the original translation was fine."

Edmonds said the intercept jumped out at her because it contained references to skyscrapers and the US visa application process. Such references might have triggered suspicions at Immigration and Naturalization Services before Sept. 11 if they had been correctly translated, she said, but they seemed unrelated before the attacks, in part because they were gathered during the course of a criminal investigation.

A Phoenix FBI agent was the source of a memo before the attacks warning about Middle Easterners taking flying lessons. Edmonds does not know whether the same agent is related to her case.

Edmonds said she made another troubling discovery: One of her colleagues admitted being a member of an organization with ties to the Middle East that was a target of an FBI investigation. The colleague, also a Turkish translator, invited Edmonds to join the group, assuring her that her FBI credentials would guarantee admission. Edmonds declined to name the organization, because she said it has been under surveillance.

Two months later, Edmonds said, one of the agents she worked with found hundreds of pages of translation that her Turkish-speaking colleague had stamped "not pertinent" and had therefore gone untranslated.

The agent asked Edmonds to retranslate her colleague's work. "We came across 17 pieces of extremely specific and important information that was blocked, and at that point, this agent and I went to the FBI security department in the Washington field office, and found out my supervisor had not reported my original complaints," she said.

Edmonds said she was repeatedly warned that she would be opening a "can of worms" if she kept filing security complaints, but she continued reporting lapses to ever-higher levels of management until, in March 2002, she wrote a letter to FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III, she said. She also contacted the Senate Judiciary Committee. In response, the FBI confiscated her home computer, challenged her to take a polygraph test, which she said she passed, and terminated her contract.

A Justice Department spokesman did not respond to a request for comment. Previously, officials have said Edmonds was fired for disruptive behavior on the job.

Over the summer of 2002, the Senate Judiciary Committee requested and received unclassified briefings about her case by FBI officials, in which Senate aides said the FBI confirmed much of what Edmonds had alleged. Senators Patrick Leahy, Democrat of Vermont, and Grassley, the Republican, wrote letters to Ashcroft, Mueller, and Glenn A. Fine, the inspector general at the Department of Justice, requesting immediate attention to Edmonds's case. They posted their letters on their websites, and Edmonds went public with her story, which was featured in a segment on "60 Minutes" in October 2002.

Edmonds also filed suit against the Justice Department on First Amendment grounds. That prompted Ashcroft to invoke the rare "state secrets" privilege, arguing "the litigation creates substantial risks of disclosing classified and sensitive national security information," a Department of Justice news release said.

Edmonds's lawsuits have since been stalled in court, but other Sept. 11-related cases, involving the independent panel's investigation and civil lawsuits involving victims' relatives, have put her saga back in the spotlight. The Senate Judiciary Committee recently e-mailed staff members informing them the FBI now considers the information related to Edmonds classified and warning them not to disseminate it anymore.

Grassley's and Leahy's offices have removed their letters to Justice officials from their websites, though the letters are still available on the Internet.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Lots of Luck....

Post by Simply Joel » Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:55 am

July 7, 2004
OP-ED COLUMNIST
Body Politic Will Reject 'Charisma Transplant'
By WILLIAM SAFIRE

WASHINGTON — Senator Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican, and Senator John Edwards, a North Carolina Democrat, were born in the same hospital in the small town of Seneca, S.C., within two years of each other. It occurred to me that Graham would have a good feel for the impact that John Kerry's selection of Edwards as his running mate might have on voters in the South and in small towns.

"In an election where a handful of states determine the winner," Graham says, "the vice presidential pick has the most effect if your choice can carry a state that's crucial. I don't see North Carolina or South Carolina going for Kerry because of Edwards."

What about Louisiana, which went for Bush in 2000 but for a Democrat, Bill Clinton, before that? "John Kerry is no Clinton. John Edwards doesn't repair the damage of having the most liberal senator, and from Massachusetts, the presidential nominee."

Forget about delivering a swing state; what of Edwards's delivering a shot in the arm to a currently lifeless Kerry campaign? "If Edwards gets their base excited, the theory is that he will help in terms of energy," allows Graham. "But this is not a pick of confidence. Edwards was chosen to fill the gap. Kerry's campaigning gap is that he has no charisma, that he doesn't relate well to average people.

"This is Kerry saying, `I know I've got this problem, and I hope this will fix it.' But there's no such thing as a charisma transplant."

Graham is properly partisan, but offers an insight about a "pick of confidence." When Bush chose Cheney in 2000, that expressed confidence in victory: Cheney was seen not primarily as a campaigner, but as an active participant in the coming administration, which even his fervent detractors admit he has been.

Bush was then filling in a gap, too — his foreign policy inexperience — but his pick was directed at governing, not campaigning.

Consider Kerry's choices for a running mate. John McCain turned it down both privately and publicly, and Joe Biden didn't want the job enough. Bob Graham might have helped in Florida, but his diary obsession would have generated sustained media derision. Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack would have triggered a nationwide "Who?"

The serious alternative was Representative Dick Gephardt. The Missourian abandoned by union labor in the primaries is solid and experienced in both domestic and foreign affairs, and might even have delivered Missouri, but he is the Man from Dullsville. He would have been Kerry's Cheney — the pick of confidence.

Kerry, in the most important political choice of his life, chose Edwards. Though youthful in appearance, he is 51, a fresh face but no spring chicken. He is demonstrably adept in persuading juries. Though with only five years in public office, he is a quick study and has learned to half-answer and slip around hard questions as well as many lifelong pols.

He is also the happy class warrior, the smoothest divisive force in politics today. Throughout the primaries, the potent Edwards message was "two Americas," haves vs. have-nots, richies vs. the rest. In yesterday's coordinated statements, "class" was the theme: both the patrician Kerry and the multimillionaire Edwards took pains to identify themselves with the "struggling" middle class. Kerry embraced this populist pitch as "the center of this campaign."

In the vice presidential debate, Democrats expect the on-message Edwards to run rings around the stolid Cheney. (But if I were a TV producer, I'd find a film of the Joe Louis-Billy Conn championship fight to run after the debate.) Though the G.O.P. will dwell on Edwards's inexperience, he will be a campaign asset, countering the recent sharp rise in Kerry's "unfavorable" ratings.

A larger question looms that confronts every presidential nominee: what if he wins and dies in office? In making his decision yesterday, Kerry should have kept that criterion of "the best man ready to take over" uppermost in his mind.

In my view, he failed that test. In the choice between the Democrat most ready to be president and the Democrat who would enliven a stalled campaign, Kerry played it safe and chose the political hottie, Edwards.

Not, as South Carolina's Graham says, "the confident pick."

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
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I just can't help myself... Teddy probably says that too...

Post by Simply Joel » Wed Jul 07, 2004 12:13 pm

Sen. Ted Kennedy:
"And when the Reagan administration was selling arms to Iran, WHERE WAS GEORGE?"


Answer: Dry, sober, and at home with his wife.Paraphrased from "A Parliament of Whores" by P.J. O'Rourke
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Not to be judgmental or anything, but...

Post by ebaynelson » Wed Jul 07, 2004 12:28 pm

Hey Joel - do you have any opinions of your own, or does your entire personal philosophy come from editorials and bathroom quote books? It's great that you read a lot, but the talking heads don't really need a secondary mouthpiece to spout their commentary. P.J. O'Rourke is funny and all, but is it really healthy to live on the equivalent of a mental Atkins diet? Judging from your verbal diarrhea, you need a bit more intellectual fiber...
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