OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:51 pm

Interesting note--Chicago Mayor Rahm Emmanual (Obama's Chief of Staff) arrested 130 OWS protesters, many of them volunteer nurses.
ygmir wrote:
jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote:
I'd also submit (again) that part of why the marches are on banks, is because, most of the OWS folks, support the current administration, and would not want to make them look bad, especially this close to an election.
And, don't "brush that idea off"........you know, there are people at the lead, that, get "input" from politicos and such.
I think you are wrong about this.
about all of it?

yeah, I'm just guessing, of course. it'd be interesting, to know the political demographics, of the general populations there. I'd still bet, it's very "left justified".
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Sola Gangsta » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:21 pm

[youtube][/youtube]
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by ygmir » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:23 pm

jkisha wrote:Interesting note--Chicago Mayor Rahm Emmanual (Obama's Chief of Staff) arrested 130 OWS protesters, many of them volunteer nurses.
ygmir wrote:
jkisha wrote: about all of it?

yeah, I'm just guessing, of course. it'd be interesting, to know the political demographics, of the general populations there. I'd still bet, it's very "left justified".

are you saying, they're not "left of center" becuase, Rahm had them arrested? Could it be, he's pandering to some special interest? Pissed because they make him look bad? Who knows.
I don't see the correlation to "left/right" politics, though.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by ygmir » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:27 pm

cowboyangel wrote:
ygmir wrote:I'd agree, most of the blame lies with gov.

I'd also submit (again) that part of why the marches are on banks, is because, most of the OWS folks, support the current administration, and would not want to make them look bad, especially this close to an election.
And, don't "brush that idea off"........you know, there are people at the lead, that, get "input" from politicos and such.
Woahaaaa....sorry ygmir, that is totally fucking untrue. The OWS are demanding an end to corruption and corporate money in both parties. The Dems are just as bad as the repugnant republicans. If anyone has let the 99% down it's the spineless, gutless, Wall St ass-kisser in the White House. He's so far taken more money from banks and Wall St than all loser republican candidates combined. Think about that. The OWS has.
see, that's heartening to hear, if true.
And, speaks to the centrist seeming leadership.

but, I still maintain, that if such info could be gotten, you'd find as a "whole" OWS folks lean left.
Not saying it's good or bad, just noting it, and seeing how it could be a reason for mostly letting gov. off the hook in the protests while aiming at banks.

I don't understand, why, it's not in the news more..........hell, the million, I mean 250K man march got more coverage..............
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by theCryptofishist » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:13 pm

From jk's link
One last observation. Many of the 53% crowd seem quite proud of their Christian faith. I am not religious myself, but I am reasonably certain that Jesus would not respond to the poor and unemployed with shouts of "Get a job!" I vividly remember what it was like to be poor. To be concise, it sucked, and my heartfelt sympathies automatically go out to anyone who has to experience it, especially children who are blameless for their circumstances. Whenever I meet someone who has not been as lucky as I have been, I recognize how easily our roles could have been reversed by the random forces of fate. And despite my lack of religion, I instinctively think "There but for the grace of God go I." If only those who actually believe in God would think the same thing more often they might not be so eager to cut my taxes.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by ygmir » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:29 pm

I think a lot of people think, that, if taxes are cut, a lot of the wasteful/pork barrel spending will be cut.
I'm not sure that's true, since, that's where the politicians get their power, and buy their re-elections.

my problem with large gov. programs, is the inherent waste.
I'd much rather see folks helping folks directly, building friendship and community that way, too.
But, that flies in the face of the "big gov." people.

If my taxes were cut, yay.
If they're not cut, well, dang.
But, if I see a neighbor hungry, I'll help either way.
It's just, to me, if I have more in my pocket, I have more to help with.

I also dislike the seemingly random decisions made, by big gov. (probably not as random as I think, more like pay offs) in the dispensing of "help".
Who, draws the lines?
yes, help U.S. citizens.
well, ok, help others here.
How about sending money to Mexico, Canada....they are our neighbors after all.

well, if Mexico, how about Nicaragua?
Argentina?

well, heck, Hungary is closer than Argentina (well maybe, just making that up).
Oh yeah, Kazakhstan.
Pakistan.
India.
Israel........

no wait, what about Sudan?
Rwanda ( is it still a country?)
South Africa?

Who decides how much, and to whom?

Just seems so arbitrary, and rife with corruption, and the potential, for same.

There will always be cracks to fall through, and, people to fall through them.
you can't "save the world". I'd rather we save, those we can touch. Each, as individuals.
I'd bet, a lot more, would get a lot more help, that way.
And, I have the faith in humanity, that, people would "step up" if they knew the gov. was not going to do it.

and, some will still fall through, and that's a bummer....but, it's that way, no matter what. sometimes, you're not lucky, sometimes, Darwin wins.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Sola Gangsta » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:30 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:From jk's link
One last observation. Many of the 53% crowd seem quite proud of their Christian faith. I am not religious myself, but I am reasonably certain that Jesus would not respond to the poor and unemployed with shouts of "Get a job!" I vividly remember what it was like to be poor. To be concise, it sucked, and my heartfelt sympathies automatically go out to anyone who has to experience it, especially children who are blameless for their circumstances. Whenever I meet someone who has not been as lucky as I have been, I recognize how easily our roles could have been reversed by the random forces of fate. And despite my lack of religion, I instinctively think "There but for the grace of God go I." If only those who actually believe in God would think the same thing more often they might not be so eager to cut my taxes.
As the Bible says, you shall know them by their works. It doesn't say that you should take people at their word. Many say they know God but are really hypocrites.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by BBadger » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:09 pm

jkisha wrote:Just curious why so many people question OWS' motives. I'd trust their motivations before those of the Koch backed Tea Party any day. Just hearing how Fox is reporting on them, and how the Republicans are reacting to them tells me they are on the right path. Time will tell...
I'm curious why you don't question any movement's motives? This is the same kind failed logic that makes people tell people not to watch Fox News, and yet they blindly follow and parrot their own biased news sources. You don't take anything at face value, otherwise it no better than blind faith.

Nor do comparisons to the trustworthiness of other movements imply anything about the first. I don't care about Koch, or the Tea Party, or Republicans, or Democrats, or the Nazis or whomever. They make no difference in the motives of OWS, especially when they're purposely highly inclusive.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:42 pm

BBadger wrote:
I'm curious why you don't question any movement's motives? This is the same kind failed logic that makes people tell people not to watch Fox News, and yet they blindly follow and parrot their own biased news sources.
News is supposed to be, and always used to be, news. The fact that Fox news and the republicans have caused people to believe that "the main stream media" had a bias toward left wing liberals and their lies and a prejudice against the right wing conservatives and the truth is a testament of their success at hoodwinking the less educated public.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by BBadger » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:34 pm

jkisha wrote:News is supposed to be, and always used to be, news.


Holy shit that is naïve! You really believe that?
The fact that Fox news and the republicans have caused people to believe that "the main stream media" had a bias toward left wing liberals and their lies and a prejudice against the right wing conservatives and the truth is a testament of their success at hoodwinking the less educated public.
Not relevant.

What I'm asking you is why aren't you questioning your sources and these movements? You're essentially doing what these "hoodwinked less educated public" people are doing and taking what you read and hear at face value.

You know what I like to do? Get my news from many sources and decide for myself. Nothing like having diversified views from many different sources, especially from those I usually don't agree with.

I remember talking with someone from Russia who complained that US media rarely, if ever shows any criticism of Israel. The whole "Jew-run media" claim. "Go to any mainstream US news website and tell me if you see any criticism of Israel". I out-of-hand rejected that claim, but it did get me thinking, especially since I would get most of my news from the BBC, rather than CNN or MSNBC. So I did some more investigation, and indeed it was hard to find much criticism of Israel in US media outlets (international news), especially compared to the BBC world news. Not entirely devoid of criticism, but a sharp contrast to what you'd see elsewhere. It has since improved, but lesson learned: to rely on single sources of news, on those sources that agree with your preconceived notions, is at best poisonous in any context.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:52 pm

:roll:
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Bob » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:59 am

Leaving the Israeli-baiting alone for a millisecond...

Where's the OP? Did s/he join an Occupy Drum Circle?
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NO drum circle circle.

Post by Simon of the Playa » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:12 am

Bob, are you my Daddy?

was i actually adopted by a family of recliners and no one ever told me?
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:24 am

Bob wrote:Leaving the Israeli-baiting alone for a millisecond...

Where's the OP? Did s/he join an Occupy Drum Circle?
WOW. The OP could actually have been an ingenious spam post!
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Sola Gangsta » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:57 pm

In watching the blame drift from Bankers, to Govt and then finally the people who are asleep and not participating in government, a reminder for those with short memory:

[youtube][/youtube]

Legislation starts in back rooms and is introduced in fine print upon thousands of thousands of pages that even Congress never reads themselves. The blame is most assuredly the petty interests of the few who have power in the banking industry. People cannot be expected to take time every day to review the thousands of pages of documents that get generated by our govt in fine print with a magnifying glass to see what kind of dirty tricks are being snuck by us by a govt that threw our interests overboard 30 years ago.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by ygmir » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:24 pm

well, maybe some sort of rule:

"you gotta write new laws, in plain English, understandable by a 6th grader, and, you can only pass one bill or law, at a time..".

novel approach?
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by graidawg » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:42 pm

I read this today
Without Community there can be no consensus to resist the greedy, the envious, the power mad narcissists who seize control and turn the institutions of civilization into a series of doom machines.
Dean Koontz, relentless 2009

it seems to me that OWS is with the "WE are the 99%" and no clear single message simply trying to remind government of its purpose, its for the people not corporations

when the banking crisis started many of the british politicains weren't voting for the bailout. some politician or other said this was a failure of goveernment to do its job. I say exactly the opposite. its members of parliament doing what the voters wanted. which is what its for right?

i am still mystified as too why we spent such a ridiculous amount of money on doing basically what starte the problem in the first place, spending money on something that wouldn't get apid back.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:12 pm

I was more than a bit surprised to find out that a lot of the legislation voted on in congress ia actually written BY THE LOBBYISTS!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :twisted: :evil:
ygmir wrote:well, maybe some sort of rule:

"you gotta write new laws, in plain English, understandable by a 6th grader, and, you can only pass one bill or law, at a time..".

novel approach?
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by ygmir » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:03 pm

jkisha wrote:I was more than a bit surprised to find out that a lot of the legislation voted on in congress ia actually written BY THE LOBBYISTS!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :twisted: :evil:
ygmir wrote:well, maybe some sort of rule:

"you gotta write new laws, in plain English, understandable by a 6th grader, and, you can only pass one bill or law, at a time..".

novel approach?
yeah, I had heard that....foogin amazing, but not surprising:

Lobbiest:
Senator, I'd like a bill, to give my company full access, and unfair advantage in our market. I hope you like the new boat (more than the Oldsmobile that didn't float so well).
Can that be done?

Senator:
sure (hic), just write it up and I'll get it passed..........."scuse me honey, can you do that...yeah, right there"........
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by BBadger » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:28 am

jkisha wrote::roll:
As expected.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:16 am

BBadger wrote:
jkisha wrote::roll:
As expected.
Yup. Done wasting my time.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:24 am

[youtube][/youtube]


This is Simple, Straightforward and Will NOT waste your time.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Ugly Dougly » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:41 am

This is fucking eye-opening as well.
http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/26/t ... -to-power/
In a new paper called "How Power Corrupts," a Columbia University team of psychologists suggest that power doesn't change the psychology of powerful people but, rather, their physiology. Lead author Dana Carney and her team hypothesize that because power eases so many daily stressors — dictators never have to worry about driving a car or paying a mortgage — powerful people show persistently lower levels of cortisol, a hormone closely associated with stress.

Typically, immoral behavior — even routine sins like lying — is stressful. "A lie-teller must actively inhibit and suppress many things including: the truth, internal monitoring of [his or her] moral compass, social norms, fear of consequence, and consideration of others' interests," Carney and her colleagues write. "This suppression leads to negative emotions, decrements in mental function, and physiological stress."

But because they have lower levels of cortisol, "the powerful have an abundance of emotional and cognitive resources available to use when navigating stressors as they arise." In this way, dictators may become immune to regret. When the Columbia team tested their hypothesis in a lab setting, they found that study participants who were placed in large offices and informed they were managers made difficult decisions much more easily than those given the role of subordinates. Not only did the high-power group score lower on psychological measures of stress; they also had lower levels of cortisol in saliva samples.

None of this means we can excuse dictators for their crimes. But our brains simply weren't designed to wield absolute power. Dictators may fight to the end because they don't understand that any end is possible. Gaddafi should stand down before he loses everything; Mubarak should have left Egypt weeks before he resigned; Hitler could have brokered for peace; Saddam Hussein could bargained for his life. But dictators are too strong militarily and too weak psychologically to bargain. That's why they invite annihilation.



Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/26/t ... z1buWXwyPk

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by cowboyangel » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:19 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:This is fucking eye-opening as well.
http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/26/t ... -to-power/
In a new paper called "How Power Corrupts," a Columbia University team of psychologists suggest that power doesn't change the psychology of powerful people but, rather, their physiology. Lead author Dana Carney and her team hypothesize that because power eases so many daily stressors — dictators never have to worry about driving a car or paying a mortgage — powerful people show persistently lower levels of cortisol, a hormone closely associated with stress.

Typically, immoral behavior — even routine sins like lying — is stressful. "A lie-teller must actively inhibit and suppress many things including: the truth, internal monitoring of [his or her] moral compass, social norms, fear of consequence, and consideration of others' interests," Carney and her colleagues write. "This suppression leads to negative emotions, decrements in mental function, and physiological stress."

But because they have lower levels of cortisol, "the powerful have an abundance of emotional and cognitive resources available to use when navigating stressors as they arise." In this way, dictators may become immune to regret. When the Columbia team tested their hypothesis in a lab setting, they found that study participants who were placed in large offices and informed they were managers made difficult decisions much more easily than those given the role of subordinates. Not only did the high-power group score lower on psychological measures of stress; they also had lower levels of cortisol in saliva samples.

None of this means we can excuse dictators for their crimes. But our brains simply weren't designed to wield absolute power. Dictators may fight to the end because they don't understand that any end is possible. Gaddafi should stand down before he loses everything; Mubarak should have left Egypt weeks before he resigned; Hitler could have brokered for peace; Saddam Hussein could bargained for his life. But dictators are too strong militarily and too weak psychologically to bargain. That's why they invite annihilation.



Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/26/t ... z1buWXwyPk
Yes and even more interesting when you migrate these observations over to the US at large..as a global dictator -militarily and financially. It does explain some things.
Anyway, power never gives up anything without a fight.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:26 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:

This is Simple, Straightforward and Will NOT waste your time.
You're right. I shared it on FB too.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by MOOP_Czar » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:07 pm

jkisha wrote:Interesting note--Chicago Mayor Rahm Emmanual (Obama's Chief of Staff) arrested 130 OWS protesters, many of them volunteer nurses.
Just a quick note to add to jkisha - Oakland's Mayor is a Democrat and pro Obama and their PD gassed, flash bombed, and shot rubber bullets and bean bags at protesters in Oakland. Before the question is even asked - yes - I watched it happen.

Been scarce because I have been busy with OSF. I got recruited to help mod the livestream chat room. So, since there isn't crap going on in Michigan, I opted to help in that way. OSF is likely getting raided tonight - likely in about an hour by SFPD.

Gotta run.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:14 pm

Thanks for getting involved.

Ya, I've seen most of the videos and have lots of friends in th SF area. The police response is beyond words. I don't think this will be going away any time soon.
MOOP_Czar wrote:
jkisha wrote:Interesting note--Chicago Mayor Rahm Emmanual (Obama's Chief of Staff) arrested 130 OWS protesters, many of them volunteer nurses.
Just a quick note to add to jkisha - Oakland's Mayor is a Democrat and pro Obama and their PD gassed, flash bombed, and shot rubber bullets and bean bags at protesters in Oakland. Before the question is even asked - yes - I watched it happen.

Been scarce because I have been busy with OSF. I got recruited to help mod the livestream chat room. So, since there isn't crap going on in Michigan, I opted to help in that way. OSF is likely getting raided tonight - likely in about an hour by SFPD.

Gotta run.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:00 pm

Interesting talk...

http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkin ... 2011-10-25
We feel instinctively that societies with huge income gaps are somehow going wrong. Richard Wilkinson charts the hard data on economic inequality, and shows what gets worse when rich and poor are too far apart: real effects on health, lifespan, even such basic values as trust.
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Kinetik V
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Kinetik V » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:50 pm

The Oakland PD response is over the top excessive. If that Iraqi Vet they hit with the beanbags and is now in critical condition dies, I hope the officers involved are indicted and charged with murder.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:01 pm

Kinetic V wrote:The Oakland PD response is over the top excessive. If that Iraqi Vet they hit with the beanbags and is now in critical condition dies, I hope the officers involved are indicted and charged with murder.
I thought he was hit by a tear gas grenade/canister. But I agree, but let's hope he doesn't die and they prosecute the officers for excessive use of force.

I just heard on the news that the Los Angeles mayor said its now time for the protesters to go, so there might be some more videos coming out of L.A. tomorrow.
JK
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Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me

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