OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Ugly Dougly » Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:12 am

No radical change on the plane of history is possible without crime. ~Hermann Keyserling

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Dr. Pyro » Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:47 am

It's not like Burning Man at City Hall. At Burning Man some of us do occasionally shower.

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Nipple » Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:07 pm

Needs more RVs.

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Ugly Dougly » Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:57 pm

And less commerce of course.

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Nipple » Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:07 pm


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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:59 pm

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by burner von braun » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:15 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:PHASE TWO BEGINS NOV 5th

that is the day thousands perhaps tens of thousands, MAYBE hundreds of thousands of patriotic Americans are going to remove their money from the "Big Banks" and put them into small, local credit unions.


etc.
Nov 5 is a Saturday... (not trying to be funny or sarcastic)

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Nipple » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:30 pm

What exactly does this mean?
The @BurningMan Twitter wrote:RT @danger_ranger: Dramatic change will occupy the summer of 2012 & Burning Man may be tasked with an important role. goo.gl/YzvQH

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:48 pm

Nipple wrote:What exactly does this mean?
The @BurningMan Twitter wrote:RT @danger_ranger: Dramatic change will occupy the summer of 2012 & Burning Man may be tasked with an important role. goo.gl/YzvQH
Other than BM is mentioned in the article (for whatever obtuse reason), I think it means nothing. But that's just my opinion.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Kinetik V » Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:16 pm

Mission Statement: Occupy Las Vegas

The first questions that come out of anyone's mouth whenever a new political movement arises are, “Who are they?” and “What do they want?”

They are good questions that should be answered.

WHO are we?

We are the 99% of Americans who have not benefited from the various financial bailouts, tax breaks, and other subsidies that the dominant 1% of the population have gained over the past several years.

We are students, veterans, homemakers, workers, the unemployed, those on Social Security benefits, those whose savings and investments were either wiped out or greatly diminished by the economic fluctuations starting in 2007.

We are those who have had our homes foreclosed upon, those whose homes are about to be foreclosed, those whose homes are now worth a fraction of what we paid for them, and those who have never owned a home and don’t expect to ever be able to.

We are the newly poor who wonder how everything for which we worked hard vanished so quickly and how we and our families are going to survive.

We are the long-time poor, who have never had much of a chance, let alone a voice, to make our own way in our current social and economic system.

We come from all backgrounds, races, and religions.

We are concerned about and more than a bit scared by the directions in which we see our lives, and the lives of our families, friends, neighbors going, the directions in which we see our nation and the whole planet going, and we are angry with those who have taken us in those directions.

We are part of a much larger global and national movement that wants real changes in how the world is run.

In short, we're you, and you are one of us.

WHAT do we want?

We want an end to corporate money's influence in politics, whether through campaign donations, PACs, or other groups. Money is not speech.

We want truly effective campaign finance reform, so that corporations and other interests have no overwhelming advantage over the rest of us in any part of American politics.

We want far greater legal accountability for public officials and corporate executives, and we demand that, if found guilty of committing crimes while in office, they are made to pay for those crimes in full, like anyone else.

We want our justice system to treat everyone equally regardless of origins or social class, at all levels and at every stage, from investigations to trials and sentencing.

We want an end to the continual attacks on our social safety net and on the rights of workers to organize themselves and, if need be, to strike to get better pay, benefits, and working conditions.

We want secure and sustainable investments and improvements in our social infrastructure, like schools and libraries, and to create an America where everyone may actually live in a decent and dignified manner, an America where everyone's rights count and are respected by all.

This is who we are and what we want. We ask for no more and shall take no less.

We are the 99% and we will not be silenced.

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:47 pm

[youtube][/youtube]
http://www.wolf-pac.com
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by cowboyangel » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:00 pm

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by lucky420 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:27 pm

I like that link cowboyangel. I'm going to put my thinking cap on and compose a message to one of them . I will also be passing the link onto my mom who is incredibly gifted at writing and has a way with words.
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by cowboyangel » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:17 pm

Thanks. remember, evil always has an address.....
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by MOOP_Czar » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:48 pm

I need clarification.

I agree with about 90% of the 99%, but I have seen repeated demands that ALL CREDIT CARD DEBT be forgiven. I dug that hole about 10 years ago and had to declare bankruptcy due to divorce, etc. I am just trying to discern how avoiding all responsibility for debt incurred is the right thing to do... and please don't insult me by stooping to the argument of "Well the banks got a bail out so I deserve one!" There is no excuse for their actions and the least honorable thing to do would be to use an argument about an attitude that the protests are about to support this demand.

I would just like someone to explain how this particular demand is valid.

I look forward to a lucid response because when I asked in a few chat rooms of the OWS crowd I was accused of being a member of the tea party. I just asked if this is about fiscal responsibility how can you ask to have the credit card debt forgiven?

Edited for drunken spelling.
Last edited by MOOP_Czar on Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by ygmir » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:05 pm

MOOP_Czar wrote:I need clarification.

I agree with about 90% of the 99%, but I have seen repeated demands that ALL CREDIT CARD DEBT be forgiven. I dug that hole about 10 years ago and had to declare bankruptcy due to divorce, etc. I am just trying to discern how avoiding all responsibility for debt incurred is the right thing to do... and please don't insult me by stooping to the argument of "Well the banks got a bail out so I deserve one!" There is no excuse for their actions and the least honorable thing to do would be to use an argument about an attitude that the protests are about to support this demand.

I would just like someone to explain how this particular demand is valid.

I look forward to a lucid response because when I asked in a few chat rooms of the OWS crowd I was accused of being amamber of the tea party. I just asked if this is about fiscal responsibility how can you ask to have the crdeit card debt forgiven?

yeah, me too!! I see it a lot, people wanting to be relieved of a debt, incurred by them, because "the bankers" are evil.......Still seems, if you borrow money, you should pay it back.
Interest, can be debated, but, not the money you borrow.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:40 pm

I haven't seen that once.
Oh well.

I think that there is a reasonable argument that over the past 2, 3 decades the banks embarked on a campaign to push cards heavily, and under terms that were deceptively nasty. But I agree that it's not a simple thing.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:12 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:I haven't seen that once.
Oh well.

I think that there is a reasonable argument that over the past 2, 3 decades the banks embarked on a campaign to push cards heavily, and under terms that were deceptively nasty. But I agree that it's not a simple thing.
I haven't seen that one either. Though I have seen something about forgiving all student loan debt; which I might be persuaded to have some sympathy for.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by MOOP_Czar » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:28 pm

Pretty sure Ygmir and I werent having a mutual hallucination 2500 miles apart.

I have seen it numerous occaissions. I ihave heard it mentioned while wathcing the live feeds of the GAs.

That is why I wanted it explained. I have heard it more over the last week or so than earlier...
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Kinetik V » Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:23 am

jkisha wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:I haven't seen that once.
Oh well.

I think that there is a reasonable argument that over the past 2, 3 decades the banks embarked on a campaign to push cards heavily, and under terms that were deceptively nasty. But I agree that it's not a simple thing.
I haven't seen that one either. Though I have seen something about forgiving all student loan debt; which I might be persuaded to have some sympathy for.
When you are encompassing 99% of society in your efforts you can expect to see many ideas float through. But this forgiving credit card debt is a new one for me. Definitely not personally supportive of it unless you go the Chapter 7 route and take the full hit for doing so.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Sola Gangsta » Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:40 am

MOOP_Czar wrote:I agree with about 90% of the 99%, but I have seen repeated demands that ALL CREDIT CARD DEBT be forgiven. I dug that hole about 10 years ago and had to declare bankruptcy due to divorce, etc. I am just trying to discern how avoiding all responsibility for debt incurred is the right thing to do... and please don't insult me by stooping to the argument of "Well the banks got a bail out so I deserve one!" There is no excuse for their actions and the least honorable thing to do would be to use an argument about an attitude that the protests are about to support this demand.
Ordinarily I'd agree with this and would still do so under the gold standard. But cash is just "paper hegemony" now. It's not backed by anything except political will. Because of this, a bankruptcy is a failure of the political elite to get an individual to support the economic system. This happens for numerous reasons but often the cause of imbalance is due to unforeseen circumstances which is more likely because we are not on a gold standard which would stabilize the economy to keep it from generating huge swings of political will in any particular direction that can wipe people out.

Bankers realized a long time ago that the gold standard was inhibiting (stabilizing) the economy and wanted artificial ways to generating wealth much faster. Gold is not the most valuable commodity to control. People are. So taking us off the gold standard and replacing it with a system where the dollar represents indebtedness, people are harnessed to generate wealth.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by BBadger » Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:16 am

MOOP_Czar wrote:I need clarification.

I agree with about 90% of the 99%, but I have seen repeated demands that ALL CREDIT CARD DEBT be forgiven. I dug that hole about 10 years ago and had to declare bankruptcy due to divorce, etc. I am just trying to discern how avoiding all responsibility for debt incurred is the right thing to do... and please don't insult me by stooping to the argument of "Well the banks got a bail out so I deserve one!" There is no excuse for their actions and the least honorable thing to do would be to use an argument about an attitude that the protests are about to support this demand.

I would just like someone to explain how this particular demand is valid.
It's not valid, and follows the same logical fallacy as "tu quoque" (i.e. "you too"). Unfortunately, this kind of thing reinforces my view that much of this 99% stuff is about envy, not finding a better way. People want to partake of the unearned spoils too. They want to be part of this huge orgy of debt and debt forgiveness and "free" money. Yeah, the banks, automotive industry, etc. should not have been bailed out, but this doesn't mean further bailouts should be added to the heap.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Sola Gangsta » Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:20 am

BBadger wrote:Unfortunately, this kind of thing reinforces my view that much of this 99% stuff is about envy, not finding a better way.
As if people would put "envy" ahead of simple needs like food, sleep, shelter, showers... This is out of touch. People don't have a better way that I can see. There are people who through foreclosure are literally "out on the street" and on Wall street because they got kicked out of their house.

What "better way" do you propose?
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Kinetik V » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:36 am

I hope this discussion moves beyond the credit card debt discussion and covers other things on Occupy's Mission Statement like ending the influence of PAC's and SuperPAC's on our political process. There's no mainstream effort to have all credit cad debt or student loans forgiven by the movement at this point in time.

Again I'm going to post a link to Occupy Las Vegas's mission statement. While wordy it is what we use to keep us on focus. It was community created by consensus, and while other groups around the country have introduced some variations and local issues into their statements, ours stays pretty clean. It makes it easier to support.

http://occupylasvegas.org/announcements ... al-version

Also if you see something in any of the local Occupy groups you don't like, don't be a spectator. Participate! You can shape the debate and the way the movement is heading. Just last night at Occupy LV's first night at our new occupation site I raised my hand, got handed a bullhorn, said my peace, and when it was done the motion I supported was voted on and there were no objections...it's now part of Occupy Las Vegas's policies and protocols. If I can do it...you can do it.

And one last thing, you don't have to agree with everything Occupy is doing. But if anything in that Mission Statement resonates with you, if you know someone who has lost a house to foreclosure or seen their savings wiped out because they couldn't find work and you know they busted their asses to do so...then you are part of the 99%. Again, come join us or your local Occupy movement and let's try and make a difference.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Kinetik V » Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:49 am

Ok, I stand corrected.

This link is floating around:
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#! ... a/GrQ0cm26

Speaking for myself when it comes to Occupy's policy on anything if I have a question, I visit their websites and see it from the source. Anything posted on the main page has been approved by General Assembly vote and can be considered official. Anything else that's out there is just out there. Individuals can do whatever they wish...but they do not speak for everyone else. The link above...is in the forums on several Occupy sites, but it's not a main page, mission statement type thing. In short...not official policy.

In short put on your critical thinking hats and if it doesn't seem right check it out.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:12 am

I think you are confusing "envy" with "fair" and equal treatment.

Regardless of your opinion of the petition(s), I think that site is a great tool for democracy. I am embarrassed to admit that I was not aware of it until KV's link.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by cowboyangel » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:10 am

MOOP_Czar wrote:I need clarification.

I agree with about 90% of the 99%, but I have seen repeated demands that ALL CREDIT CARD DEBT be forgiven. I dug that hole about 10 years ago and had to declare bankruptcy due to divorce, etc. I am just trying to discern how avoiding all responsibility for debt incurred is the right thing to do... and please don't insult me by stooping to the argument of "Well the banks got a bail out so I deserve one!" There is no excuse for their actions and the least honorable thing to do would be to use an argument about an attitude that the protests are about to support this demand.

I would just like someone to explain how this particular demand is valid.

I look forward to a lucid response because when I asked in a few chat rooms of the OWS crowd I was accused of being a member of the tea party. I just asked if this is about fiscal responsibility how can you ask to have the credit card debt forgiven?

Edited for drunken spelling.
Moop. Great questions.

Back when the congress was deciding on a spate of new credit card and banking regulations after the bailouts, one of the bills included placing a 15% cap on all credit cards. I urged my congresswoman to vote for that but the coward wall St worm Obama axed that out. I ask why when so many of us are being called on to face a battery of austerity measures, the credit and banking industries can't do the same? In fact just the opposite is happening. They are making profits.( except for a slight dip in earnings last week). State banking is one solution to easing the credit crisis and I strongly urge you all to support it in your states.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by cowboyangel » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:19 am

BBadger wrote:
MOOP_Czar wrote:I need clarification.

I agree with about 90% of the 99%, but I have seen repeated demands that ALL CREDIT CARD DEBT be forgiven. I dug that hole about 10 years ago and had to declare bankruptcy due to divorce, etc. I am just trying to discern how avoiding all responsibility for debt incurred is the right thing to do... and please don't insult me by stooping to the argument of "Well the banks got a bail out so I deserve one!" There is no excuse for their actions and the least honorable thing to do would be to use an argument about an attitude that the protests are about to support this demand.

I would just like someone to explain how this particular demand is valid.
It's not valid, and follows the same logical fallacy as "tu quoque" (i.e. "you too"). Unfortunately, this kind of thing reinforces my view that much of this 99% stuff is about envy, not finding a better way. People want to partake of the unearned spoils too. They want to be part of this huge orgy of debt and debt forgiveness and "free" money. Yeah, the banks, automotive industry, etc. should not have been bailed out, but this doesn't mean further bailouts should be added to the heap.
But free money for the too big to fail banks and next to nothing interest charges for the money they do get is ok?

Here's a sensible proposal
http://www.truth-out.org/student-debt-t ... 1319131961

I am all for drastic rate reductions on credit card debt with big protections built in to prevent consumer credit card misuses. Why not? We charge next to nothing for US federal timber sales, mining etc. we give the oil industry fantastic tax breaks we give billionaires a free pass on off-shoring banking deposits, we give corrupt defense contractors a trillion dollars in wasted programs? Get real.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by cowboyangel » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:40 am

Oh yeah...one more thing...as we talk about "free money" or debt forgiveness....check this out...latest from BofA and financial vampire Brian Moynihan

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... 09#p752809
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by cowboyangel » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:03 pm

an interesting video that nails it down with 50 nails...50 states.......States will save the USA

[youtube][/youtube]
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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