Looking for work?

[Sham]

I read the article that Gyre posted about Slab City, and one particular person, Vince Neill who was sending out 30 to 40 resumes a day and had no luck landing a job. I know there are several people on the board here who are also out of work and having trouble, and I am hoping that some of the professionals here can offer some useful and constructive guidance for those needing help finding a job.

The economy is clearly the worst since the great depression and jobs are very scarce. There are some useful tips and tricks that can be used to play towards a company to help land the job you are looking for.

Emailing 30-40 resumes is simply a waste of time. You are throwing balls of mud against a wall and hoping they will stick. Many of the jobs that are posted online are for sales type jobs that are very difficult to make a living at, but there are many that are for real and those are the ones to target.

Step one, learn as much as you can about the company you are zeroing in on. Go online and read about them and their competitors. Show a knowledge of the job before contacting them and sound attentive and intelligent about the nature of their work.

Fight to get an interview, face to face with the person who does the hiring. Study again for your interview.

Dress appropriately for the position. (no 3 piece suit for a warehouse job) No cologne or perfume that will stink up the place after you leave.

The receptionist in any company plays a HUGE part in deciding if you get hired. BIG, BIG mistake if you don't think so.

Be more interested in asking questions pertaining to the nature of the business, rather than asking about benefits such as "what do you people give for vacations, sick time, insurance, maternity leave etc". That's all stuff for the second interview---and if you play the first one right, there will be a second interview. One of the worst things you can start by asking is what do you people do here.

Firm handshake with your interviewer, wait to be offered to sit down, no nervous, blathering small talk. Make your point clear and concise, then SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Don't try to make friends with your interviewer. Make yourself out to be someone who will genuinely work hard to make their business a better place by putting the company first.

When the interview is over, another firm handshake and a close by saying that you are very interested in working for this company and you hope to hear from him/her soon.

[Sail Man]

Damn! That's a very serious posting you have made there.

Ok, who are you really and what the hell have you done with the real Shambala? You know, the wacky and irreverent Shambala? The one who rides around on pontoon boats in the middle of the desert?



jk, jk!

that's a very insightful post, and packs a lot of very good advice for those to follow.

Though I do have a question. When do I start, and do I get a parking space by the front door, with my name on it? (ok, 2 questions)

[wh..sh]

Great post Sham!

- Don't get stuck in a "one resume to cater all jobs" mode.
Resumes are critical to be called for an interview. Usually companies filter resumes based on key words/necessities of the job. I always advice people to customize the resume for each job. The idea is to highlight the skills, real time experience and the impact it has had on the business and so on that is relevant to the job in question. Customizing resume to highlight certain skills/experience necessary for job can be advantageous (by customizing I don't mean lie or to make up stuff).
Same with cover letter.

[Sham]

Finding companies that are hiring can be extremely tricky. Once a job is published on any medium, the potential employer is inundated with applicants and every hopeful candidate is now submitting resumes with hundreds of other people. There are things that can be done to reach these companies without having to elbow dozens of people for the same job.

If you can attend job fairs, put your best foot forward, but keep track of any and EVERY company that you might consider working for. Let a month or so go by, and then approach that company without the crowds. These companies have turn over, and there will probably be some openings that are not publicized. If you are clever, you will even have the name of a contact there.

You can also scope out companies in a radius of your house that you can comfortably travel to. Drive around industrial areas in, let's say, in a 10 mile radius and see what kind of businesses are there. Don't be shy about dressing nicely and stopping right in to these companies. Remember that receptionist knows what's going on and that person can get you in to see Mr. Big if there is a job available. That receptionist can quietly buzz the boss and tell him/her, "I have this person at the window who seems like they would be perfect for the customer service job". If there is nothing right now, the reception person might know that Acme Widget right around the corner is hiring now.

The big thing is to get up and out and start to see people's faces to get a job. Seeing a post on Craigslist and then just blindly sending off a resume is nearly never effective and can be very demoralizing.

Keep in mind that no employer really wants to deal with sorting though hundreds of resumes to find new people. You have the ability to make things very easy for them by approaching them first. They will love you for it.

[Sola Gangsta]

Its better to start your own business in the field you're interested in rather than trying to get a job if at all possible. This is what I did and the result is that several companies tried to hire me. However you should beware because it may be an indication that they want to steal your ideas or work in order to get rid of competition. This was the case with one company who tried to hire me multiple times and they eventually sued one of my B:B connections in order to try to put me out of business because I refused.

[Sham]

Damn! That's a very serious posting you have made there.

Ok, who are you really and what the hell have you done with the real Shambala?

Sailman, I was visited by three ghosts last night--Christmas past, present and future. I didn't like what I saw, so I'm repenting! And I'll keep penting and repenting until I'm exorcised of my demons! (glad you asked?)

wh..sh, that is a great suggestion about the customized letters and resume. I never really thought of that, but it is an awesome idea.

SG, in good times, starting a business may be a good idea, but with so many established businesses closing up shop, it may not be a good time to be opening up a new business. Most new businesses fail within the first year, and the ones that succeed don't show a profit for 3 years. It takes a life savings to get most businesses off the ground, and most people can't afford to lose that money.

[junglesmacks]

Its better to start your own business in the field you're interested in rather than trying to get a job if at all possible. This is what I did and the result is that several companies tried to hire me. However you should beware because it may be an indication that they want to steal your ideas or work in order to get rid of competition. This was the case with one company who tried to hire me multiple times and they eventually sued one of my B:B connections in order to try to put me out of business because I refused.

Damn 1%'ers.

[Sic Pup]

The reality is most firms are looking for one of three things:

1) how you can make them more money
2) how you can make them more efficient
3) how you can add value that facilitate #1 and #2

My experience as a 54yr old with a wealth of experience in a field I no longer wish to pursue is:

1) most jobs are found through networking. Talk to your neighbors, call up old co-workers, relatives, bond and exchange info with the guy/gal next to you at the job fair keep your ear to the track and enlist others to let you know if they hear of any openings. There's some truth to the phrase it's not what you know but who you know.

2) I refer to Monster, CarrerBuilder, USAJobs and Craigslist as the black hole, you can keep throwing cover letters and resumes at them but don't set your hopes too high on getting a response. Use it to augment some of the other methods mentioned not as your sole vehicle.

3) Tailor your cover letters to provide specific examples of how your experience addresses each and every sought after quality/skill listed in the posting. Tailor your resume/CV accordingly, omit items that are not relevant to the position and that could potentially put a decision maker off. I'd have a pretty extensive history that would automatically disqualify me from most positions I'm applying for if I didn't omit.

4) Social Media - it goes without saying make sure you have the proper security in place if you post things you wouldn't necessarily want a potential employer to see. But it works both ways (see below).

5) Thoroughly research the company and if possible the decision maker

6) My experience has been the vast majority of positions in job fairs and online are sales positions many of which require the applicant to tap into their network of friends, family, and neighbors as potential clients. The real value in job fairs is the networking IMO.

I'm not sure how valid my suggestions are in that I'm still looking but my situation may not be the norm, right now I have very specific requirements, it needs to be local, there needs to be some goal in the mission statement AND in practice of something other than just making money and it needs to be something where I'm not on call 24/7 (did that for 30 years).

I've recently taking another tact in my last two applications, namely, treating the reader as a human being, dropped some formalities and tried to show myself as a unique individual and something more than being represented as another application littered with tired jargon.

A) I've responded to an ad looking for creative people to participate in a think tank - I referenced Burning Man, some non-career work I've done with a MacArthur Genius Award receipient, my volunteer work and I even referenced salad tossing in a manner appropriate to the application (don't ask). Amazingly, I got a response and the fellow seems quite interested. He sent me a second email saying my BM Toddler Tweets project was pure genius, as fate would have it it turns out the project is related to Social Media and that fit beautifully. I actually applied as a goof because the questions asked were a bit silly and I really wanted to tackle "You're about to be launched into deep space and can take 23 items with you on a sustainable, intergalactic vessel headed 1000 light years away. List the items you choose and why." In most cases all you lose is time when doing something on a lark and at a minimum you gain the experience. Speaking for myself the one thing I have plenty of right now is time.

B) I applied for a position managing a Mental Health (har!) satellite office for a foundation of a local university. I did the normal matching of my experience to the skills sought and then after the formal letter appended an almost as lengthy postscript. With some due dilligence and some snooping on social media I found out the director was the same age as myself, had a masters in Social Work and loved cats so I humanized the application a bit by stating how difficult it was to compete in a youth-centric market at age 54, sneaking in a mention of my volunteer work with feral colonies and my degree in Behavorial Sciences. I was also very clear that I wasn't looking for just a job, had modest needs in terms of compensation and that I felt that the position had positive social consequences that fit well to where I'm currently at. I also sent my application via US Mail as opposed to the online mechanism in the hopes that physical paper might demand a little more attention, might make my application stand out from the rest and not be as easily dismissed as just one more digital task to rifle through (at the risk of never making it to or getting lost on her desk). It remains to be seen whether this new tact makes a difference, the last day of application is today. If I don't hear something early next week I will follow up.

DISCLAIMER: I feel it's probably prudent to mention that referencing tossing salads may not be advantageous to you unless you've really done thorough research on the decision maker or if it's applicable to the position.

[Sail Man]

Damn! That's a very serious posting you have made there.

Ok, who are you really and what the hell have you done with the real Shambala?

Sailman, I was visited by three ghosts last night--Christmas past, present and future. I didn't like what I saw, so I'm repenting! And I'll keep penting and repenting until I'm exorcised of my demons! (glad you asked?)

Well, as long as the penting doesn't involve the use of personal lubricants, yes.

[Ugly Dougly]

You'll wait in the lobby. DON'T SIT DOWN. When the interviewer comes to the lobby to pick you up, they want to see you standing, reading the company's product literature, not wallowing in the leather sofa trying to look up the receptionist's skirt. Sorry, got sidetracked there. First impressions are important.
Also, if you're out of work, go to school or volunteer so you don't have a big gaping hole in your resume. Important!

[The CO]

Don't forget that volunteer work can go on a resume. Perhaps working at some thing in the desert....

I run a small festival, and always point out to my volunteers that they are performing a job (gate, runner, medical) that can be listed on a resume. I've written 3 letters of recommendation for people from that event, and 2 of them got jobs.

Never underestimate the power of a good letter from a past employer.

[wh..sh]

Volunteer work relevent to experience and skills can also be found online. I would enroll in volunteer organizations such as http://womenoncall.org/
They have work for all kinds of people and skill level.

[FIGJAM]

The best advice I ever heard was to spend as many hours a week looking for a job as you would doing a job!

40=40

[graidawg]

meh i have found simply by getting a job getting a better one is easier, wehn i got laid off back in november i was looking forward to some couch time. then dammit i got a job. lets hope it pays but if is doesnt, well i can get another

[Sham]

Things must be much better in England. Here in the States, things are pretty bleak and any tips or tricks that can be used to find employment is a good thing.

Everyone who wants to work, should be able to find a job and work. I'm not sure how long the depression is going to last, but I think we can help each other here.

[theCryptofishist]

Things must be much better in England.

I dunno. I have an interest, as my niece just got a masters from University of Manchester and doesn't have a job.

Anyone need any translation work? (Russian and German.)

[mdmf007]

Couple comments -

1. Its no better in the UK for job prospects and real estate has taken a bigger hit.

2. If your sending out 30 or 40 resumes a day, you obviously have little time to customize your resume for each company.

3. Nothing bounces a candidate faster here than NOT knowing what we do, our clients, our mission, past jobs. Google is pretty wide spread, simply looking up some articles on the company your going into shows some initiative.

4. Keep the BS to a minimum - We have plenty of time to vette candidates, your FB, Myspace, Linkedin, and 20-30 pages deep of google hits are going to get read and the highlights compiled for HR. With the way the job market is, we can be picky right now.

Last tip, if your really hurting for meaningful work, and a job that WILL pay you 60k plus out of HS, full medical, retirement. Join the merchant marine. Its a pain in the ass to get qualified and please the USCG to get licensed as an OS - Ordinary Seaman, but there are jobs. Many of my clients are hurting for entry level sailors to train up. Its not for everyone.

Just some tips.

[Simon of the Playa]

The Mafia is now Hiring.

send me a PM.

[lemur]

simon knows a guy

[Sham]

Dressing and appearance for a job search and interview are crucial.....

It goes without saying that a "few" burners may have what some consider a "unique" appearance". Bright hair colors, piercings, tattoos, outlandish clothing, etc. All those are great, but may need to be tempered a smidge if searching for a job.

Yes, many of my close playa friends are individuals with distinct appearances. Potential employers will certainly love the look once they get to know the person, but the big trick is to actually snag the job so they CAN get to know you.

Deplayafying (not a real word, but it should be) yourself may be a bit of a trick, but very important. Looking conservative, and boring give the appearance of a team player. While actively hunting for a good job, you want to blend into the norm as much as possible.

Remember that no cologne or perfume thing. You want to stand out as a perfect candidate for the job, but you don't want a stench lingering after you leave.

Cover tats, remove piercing adornments, conservative hair, business clothes---use your mirror and try very hard to blend in and look like everyone else. Once you get the job--and they get to know you, the real YOU can start to come out.

Remember, the goal is to get a job during these tough times.

[delle]

The receptionist in any company plays a HUGE part in deciding if you get hired. BIG, BIG mistake if you don't think so.

... Remember that receptionist knows what's going on and that person can get you in to see Mr. Big if there is a job available. That receptionist can quietly buzz the boss and tell him/her, "I have this person at the window who seems like they would be perfect for the customer service job". If there is nothing right now, the reception person might know that Acme Widget right around the corner is hiring now.

I can't even begin to tell you how true this is! As a front desker for a relatively large hiring power for my area with very diverse needs, I've seen it all when it comes to job applications.

I'd add that the most successful applicants have had certain things in common: They were Aware, Open, Universally Respectful and Eager. They took the time to do it right.

Doing it right means assessing the situation. If the person at reception looks busy, stand aside and let them do their job. When asked what you need, explain that you're here to apply for a job, but you're not in a hurry - that you can see how busy they are and you can gladly wait or come back at a better time of day. The points you'll rack by this gesture alone are golden. You are already showing that you care for both the team and the client.

I've seen people come in looking (and smelling) like a train wreck, figuring that it's an unimportant step. They treat the front desk like a regular queue situation and jostle for their place, regardless of what's going on.

That young woman in a hoodie overlooking the exchange from the perimeter? The one you've been rude to in order to get to the "suit" with the graying hair? She's actually the boss. You just blew it without even knowing it.

Critical Stop

It helps to understand the peak flows of the company you're working for. Don't show up at a hotel or congress centre during check-in and check-out times. Don't show up at a restaurant during mealtimes. If you see that the parking lot is full to the brim of clients' cars, now might not be the best time to plead your case.

We had a person applying for a maitre d'hotel job a couple of months ago who tried to push her way in during a huge lunch rush. General consensus was that she couldn't possibly have a clue if she chose that particular time to introduce herself. She never made it past that move.

Alternately, we had a young woman who came in - saw it was busy, so took herself out of the fray, busying herself with our literature and looking over the place - smiling at everyone, and being extremely pleasant all around - until there was nobody at the front desk. She handed me a pretty generic cv with no cover letter (we get these ALOT). When I asked which department she was interested in, she told me "housekeeping". By then, I'd had a pretty good look at her, and made some (pretty good) assumptions about her. A 5 minute conversation determined that she had the skills and aptitude to be in a position much more in the forefront.... which she was hired almost immediately to do, after I called the head of the department and told them I had a hot one at reception. The job hadn't yet been posted. And she ended up with a job that she LOVES (which I'm not sure would have been the case were she hired as a housekeeper).

I guess the moral of that story is "Act like you already belong". It goes a long way to making it true.

[delle]

Remember that no cologne or perfume thing. You want to stand out as a perfect candidate for the job, but you don't want a stench lingering after you leave.

GAWD, yes!!! I can think of at least half a dozen who were not hired just because of this alone. You may think you smell pretty, but we just can't imagine having to smell that every day.

[theCryptofishist]

I read this thread with a sense of despair sadness, because I've never been too good at those things. It all seems overwhelming. Back in the day, sometimes it was better to apply for a job in a half-assed way, than not at all.
I am so grateful that I am employed and will continue to be unless things get really bleak indeed.

[Sham]

I read this thread with a sense of despair sadness, because I've never been too good at those things. It all seems overwhelming. Back in the day, sometimes it was better to apply for a job in a half-assed way, than not at all.
I am so grateful that I am employed and will continue to be unless things get really bleak indeed.

Don't be sad fishy, it takes practice and some people get lots and lots of it. There are lots of State sponsored programs that help with finding employment, but this thread is meant to cut right to the chase and play to the employer to get the job. No touchy-feely work books, just cold, stark advice. If you have a job, hang the fuck on to it! If you don't have one (and want one), join the conversation here.

[graidawg]

I didn't mean to be blase' with my earlier comment about getting a job but i have found when applying for a job having the confidence to act as though you can't imagine them hiring anyone else works wonders, many of my job interviews have had me saying "so when do i start then"
having said that i have been sacked from 2 companies this year.

[ygmir]

well, and as a "self employed" person, it can get weird, well, IMO, anyway.

if business got much less, and rent gets much lower, I could easily find myself, in the position of needing to find employment.
But, when you've been self employed for 30 ish years, well.......the prospect seems daunting, at least.

I can also state some frustrations, from the employer side:
over and over, I've hired someone, and, in fairly short order.......they're showing up late.....maybe only 10 minutes, but, it still bugs me.....because, of course, they want to leave exactly on time, or even early, but want pay for the full day. Also, not showing up, for a day, or two........no call....just not there. Then, show up like "no biggie, I had stuff to do".
Add that to not respecting my tools, equipment, material or work quality, and work ethic.
Nothing like walking up, and seeing someone you're paying, just standing, looking at the ground, or, look up from the ditch, to find them watching you work, doing their job.
There's a huge, and often obvious, difference between "not knowing what to do" and being lazy/stupid.
I never ask anyone, to do something I won't do, or work harder, than I do. But, when I'm working them in the dust, and they're sitting there gasping, or not able to hold their end up, well........dang.

Enthusiasm, attitude, and willingness to learn and take constructive criticism, goes a long, long way. IMHO.

I'm not, by any means saying all, or even most, do that.
But, many friends who own companies, have the same lament.

So, just as something to say:

It's not only important to land the job, but, to keep it.

[FIGJAM]

I hear ya!

If I need help, I pay it as piece work.

This tends to speed things up as I explain that the faster we're done, the more they make per hour.

Punctuality is my big thing, and one of the best selling points I have.

People are so sick of being told "We'll be there between 9 and 5." only to get a call at 5:10 saying "Can't make it today."

Customers love me for this more than anything else.

If I say noon, I will be there at 11:45.

If I need help, they better be waiting for me, instead of me waiting for them.

Cause I don't wait!

If the jobs important to them, they'll be ready to go, or they miss out, and it's a way of teaching them how I will be treated!

Or else!!!

[Elderberry]

well, and as a "self employed" person, it can get weird, well, IMO, anyway.

if business got much less, and rent gets much lower, I could easily find myself, in the position of needing to find employment.
But, when you've been self employed for 30 ish years, well.......the prospect seems daunting, at least.

I can also state some frustrations, from the employer side:
over and over, I've hired someone, and, in fairly short order.......they're showing up late.....maybe only 10 minutes, but, it still bugs me.....because, of course, they want to leave exactly on time, or even early, but want pay for the full day. Also, not showing up, for a day, or two........no call....just not there. Then, show up like "no biggie, I had stuff to do".
Add that to not respecting my tools, equipment, material or work quality, and work ethic.
Nothing like walking up, and seeing someone you're paying, just standing, looking at the ground, or, look up from the ditch, to find them watching you work, doing their job.
There's a huge, and often obvious, difference between "not knowing what to do" and being lazy/stupid.
I never ask anyone, to do something I won't do, or work harder, than I do. But, when I'm working them in the dust, and they're sitting there gasping, or not able to hold their end up, well........dang.

Enthusiasm, attitude, and willingness to learn and take constructive criticism, goes a long, long way. IMHO.

I'm not, by any means saying all, or even most, do that.
But, many friends who own companies, have the same lament.

So, just as something to say:

It's not only important to land the job, but, to keep it.

I've experienced all of the above when I was in the construction biz. Mostly, and how do I say this politely, from American workers. Which is why we hired quite a few Hispanics on the don't ask don't tell plan.

One incident that stays so clearly in my mind is an electrician we hired. We did high end remodeling, and consequently if wiring needed to be brought into areas of the house not actually effected by the remodel, wires had to be run without tearing out sections of the walls. That meant using special very long drill bits, crawling under the house, etc. I'll never forget when this guy was informed of this responded with 'I didn't go to school to crawl in the dirt.'

I think it took me about two minutes to cut his first and last paycheck right there on the spot.

[delle]

well, and as a "self employed" person, it can get weird, well, IMO, anyway.

if business got much less, and rent gets much lower, I could easily find myself, in the position of needing to find employment.
But, when you've been self employed for 30 ish years, well.......the prospect seems daunting, at least.

I can also state some frustrations, from the employer side:
over and over, I've hired someone, and, in fairly short order.......they're showing up late.....maybe only 10 minutes, but, it still bugs me.....because, of course, they want to leave exactly on time, or even early, but want pay for the full day. Also, not showing up, for a day, or two........no call....just not there. Then, show up like "no biggie, I had stuff to do".
Add that to not respecting my tools, equipment, material or work quality, and work ethic.
Nothing like walking up, and seeing someone you're paying, just standing, looking at the ground, or, look up from the ditch, to find them watching you work, doing their job.
There's a huge, and often obvious, difference between "not knowing what to do" and being lazy/stupid.
I never ask anyone, to do something I won't do, or work harder, than I do. But, when I'm working them in the dust, and they're sitting there gasping, or not able to hold their end up, well........dang.

Enthusiasm, attitude, and willingness to learn and take constructive criticism, goes a long, long way. IMHO.

I'm not, by any means saying all, or even most, do that.
But, many friends who own companies, have the same lament.

So, just as something to say:

It's not only important to land the job, but, to keep it.

I used to wonder about this phenomenon. Like maybe it was a "big city" thing, where relative anonymity overrode concern about a person's personal reputation. Then, as I encountered it more and more at work in my small town, I put it down to "youth", as it seemed it was all the young bucks who couldn't seem to grasp the importance of their part in the team.

Fact is, you're ALWAYS hired as part of a team, and your performance affects the entirety. It just seems to me that having the ability to take pride in your work -- to take pride in yourself, and your contribution -- is the basis for how you're going to do in a company. Any company, in any position. It's also the basis for how much you're going to enjoy what you're doing...

I used to work for a large telecommunications company here that gave us all a golden pin upon our arrival. Its message was ingrained into us during our training period just as strongly as the tasks we were to perform. The pin said "Attitude". The message was that your attitude was the basis of everything you could ever hope to achieve - personally, or for the team, or for the client. Change your attitude, and you're changing everything.

I've long since lost the pin, but the message remains strong. "I have the power!"

With that came an ability to Love My Job. To make every task and interaction count. To find pride (and actual joy) in what I'm doing, no matter how menial -- because it's always important somehow, to somebody. Once you find that switch inside of you, everything changes. Everything.

And it's easy to see who has found that switch and who hasn't. It affects not only performance, but the overall happiness of the person.

...and isn't that the most important thing?

[FIGJAM]

You lost your "Attitude"?

People are telling me to do that all the time.