The Car Thread

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Elliot
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Elliot » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:53 am

One task to figure out with this project is to find a suitable windshield.
The original windshield arrangement has too many pillars obstructing the view for highway use. It consists of three main panes and two outer panes. That's four pillars. One pillar in the middle would be fine.

It would probably not be terribly difficult to find an automobile windshield to replace the three main panes. The SAAB 900 has impressive curvature. But that's a rather narrow windshield. I really want one windshield to replace all five panes.

I fully expect to set the new windshield further back in the center, since there is not likely an automobile or truck on the planet with so much total curvature.

A friend gave me a broken windshield from his 1959 Ford Thunderbird. It is in the right direction. A good start for research.
So I started looking at photos of similar era Fords.
1956 shows promise. Both pickups and cars. Looking at them again... they might be the same glass.

What I would like to have is some sort of catalog of all windshields from the 1950s and 1960.
There is a series of books called National Auto Glass Specifications, published by Mitchell. The first book covers 40 years and is the one of interest. But I have no idea what is actually in that book.

Annoyingly, I have so far not found a way to buy it.

The local auto glass business had not heard of it. My next stop is the local body shop, where I know the owner. But I figured I would give you guys a shot at it. Any suggestions?

Oh.... The concept is to buy the car body -- or at least the right to cut it up -- and cut the entire windshield structure out of the car -- several inches above and below, hopefully with the windshield wiper mechanism. Then graft this into the airplane. (And finally replace the glass itself with a new one, unless I'm very lucky with the original.)

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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Captain Goddammit » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:18 pm

Hey Elliot don't forget to look at REAR windows. There's all sorts of shapes there too, and less demand for them which means they tend to be cheap.
That's a way-back custom showcar trick.
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Elliot » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:48 pm

Thanks! Great idea. And yes, you remind me that I have seen this done a number of times thru the years.
Only one possible problem.... Aren't backlights usually tempered glass? Somehow, that was legal for windshields in Europe when I grew up. Horribly dangerous. This needs to be laminated windshield glass, and preferably with the D.O.T. approval marking.

Just a few minutes ago I learned that 1957-60 Ford pickup windshields are 61.5 inches wide, which is over 2 inches wider that 1956. Progress. However, the 1957-60 A-pillar slopes a bit, which the 1956 does not.

Digging up such tidbits of measurements takes "forever". Sure hope we can find a catalog or such.
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby ygmir » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:34 pm

Hey Elliot:
I was in my local glass shop, getting paint (PnG), and asked about a windshield for my 73 International dump truck.....they said if they didn't have it, they could have one made reasonably.........
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Elliot » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:12 am

This style? (Below.)
That might be of interest.
I know that any shape can be made. It is sometimes done for the high-dollar custom cars I cover for the car magazine. (And I expect for manufacturers' prototypes and show cars.) But that costs thousands.

I bet there are patterns for every windshield ever mass-produced, and this would bring the cost down to reasonable, such as for your truck.

And come to think of it... it is a catalog of such patterns I would love to have.

One element I need is that the bottom of the glass must have an arch to it. This IH has it, and the 1956 Fords have it. But more would be better. Material can be sanded off, but I imagine it would be time-consuming and expensive to have that done.

1973 IH.JPG
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Elliot » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:41 am

Here is the concept of the one-piece automotive windshield. Proportions and such are off. This is only to illustrate the concept. Methinks the resulting “visor” will look quite nice.

Image

[URL=http://s46.photobucket.com/user/Elliotn/media/img058_zpswhuw9nlm.jpg.html]Image[/URL
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Captain Goddammit » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:44 am

Is the visibility really bad with the original arrangement?
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Elliot » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:58 am

It is "not great". What's worse... is that it appears terribly obstructed when seen from outside. And this vehicle must have nothing to draw unfavorable attention from law enforcement. Rather, it must appear impressively correct and in compliance with the Vehicle Code.
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Traveller in Time » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:22 pm

Is it possible and or allowed to use acrylic?
There are wear resistant coatings.
The shape would be not impossible to mold, even the original folds would be possible.
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Elliot » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:05 pm

To my knowledge, acrylic is not allowed.
The California Vehicle Code (sections 26700, 26701, 265703, 26704) uses the term "safety glazing material", and defines it as "a type meeting requirements established by the department" (Department of Motor Vehicles).

Sec. 26704 then has the following footnote: "Repealed and added Ch. 723, Stats. 1979. Effective January 1, 1980."

And that... is as far as I have gotten. I have failed to find that statute. And I have failed to find that "requirement". I simply don't know how the laws work. Anybody?
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Ratty » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:38 pm

Pictures or it didn't happen Greycoyote
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Elliot » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:10 pm

Thank you, Ratty!

That gave me a federal standard -- ANSI/SAE Z26. So I searched for that.
(The bottom line with California seems to be that they use the Federal standards.)

And I found a wondrous document.

Turns out… the standard does not simply describe the types of glass approved for motor vehicles. Rather, it describes the 26 test that glass must pass to become approved. The actual technical details of the tests, yes. For example, there is a blueprint of the steel ball, which is used to bang against the glass in one test.

There are 18 types of glass for motor vehicles. They include several tempered types; and several that are plastics (for such as interior partitions); and four that are Glass-Plastics, which means glass on the outside and plastic on the inside.

Only four of the 18 are approved for windshields, and none of those is tempered. So that settled that part.

Two of them are bullet-resistant. Never mind.
A third is a Glass-Plastic, but it is not approved for convertibles. I have never heard of it before, and I have a hunch is must be quite rare.

The one… which is approved for all windshields… is laminated – that is, it has glass on both sides and plastic in the middle.

IN OTHER NEWS….
My friend Alvaro, the body shop owner, referred me to one of his parts-suppliers. Alvaro is certain they have a book full of windshield data. So that’s my next stop. :D
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Ratty » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:03 am

I met a guy last night at a party. He has a MV called Maria El Dorado. You may have seen it in years past. An Eldorado on a tank base. It's like a transformer on a scissor jack. I love it and hope he brings it back this year. I'll ride 9 feet up in the sky at a whopping 1.5 mph. The wind will rush through my hair. If it's windy.
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Elliot » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:28 am

I remember it well; the Maria Del Camino -- a 1959 Chevrolet El Camino. Pretty cool indeed!
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby burner von braun » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:24 am

Image

Here is a photo I took of it on the playa, with a photoshop mini-whiteout added to obscure 'innocent' bystanders. I researched a bit more just now (thank you for the name of the vehicle Elliot), and apparently Bruce Tomb, the builder of Maria Del Camino, has an active kickstarter going for about one more week to help him finance needed repairs. He still has a way to go to meet his goal...

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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Captain Goddammit » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:28 pm

And to think I paid for my own goddamm MV repairs all these years...
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Maria_dEl_Camino » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:48 pm

Howdy,

I just joined the ePlaya, late in the game.
Yes— Maria dEl Camino!

That's me.
I have done a ton, (no— 5 tons!) of repairs and improvements on this beast over the past seven years.
I made the cake, so I suppose I gotta eat it, but the cost for this next chapter is beyond the pale...
[removed]
If you look a little closer, you'll see there is a lot of radical engineering going on here, and NAPA auto parts doesn't have what it takes!

Hey burner von braun, I love that pic from Her first year! That when She could only drive like a default car...

[link removed by moderator]
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Captain Goddammit » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:32 pm

Does it seem out of sorts to show up right off the bat with your hand out rather that to talk cars?
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Ratty » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:58 pm

Capt. It's my fault. Don't hold it against him. We met last night at a volunteer appreciation party. I love his car and had already seen the kickstarter somewhere else. I told him to put it on eplaya too and jump into the car thread. Yes. We had been drinking. Maybe the mods can move it over to the appropriate thread.
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby burner von braun » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:29 pm

.
edit: I was writing this even as Ratty posted above--


I dunno Captain, in fairness, I was the one that first brought up the kickstarter here in this thread. I'm guessing word somehow got back to Maria_dEl_Camino, and he just now discovered eplaya and strolled in. Perhaps a mod should give this a nudge over to a more appropriate Art or MV category on eplaya though. My hope is that he decides to hang out with us here more often now that he knows we're here, and regale us with stories about himself and the build!

..and Captain, maybe it isn't said often enough, but I for one am grateful for the enormous effort and expense you undergo to bring the Land Yacht to the playa. It is a stellar contribution.

Perhaps it's time for a 'pros & cons of kickstarters' discussion, but I don't think it should land directly on MdC's shoulders, nor occur in The Car Thread really for that matter. I will say that those types of philosophical discussions on eplaya really help to crystallize my thinking on such matters though, often bringing to light much that I simply wouldn't have thought of or considered otherwise.

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Re: The Car Thread

Postby ygmir » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:21 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:Does it seem out of sorts to show up right off the bat with your hand out rather that to talk cars?

yes
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby AntiM » Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:07 am

Rather than split off or delete the entire conversation, I deleted the link. For future reference, there is a fundraising forum, and posting within guidelines there would be allowed. Just mentioning a kickstarter without links in any other forum is allowed, although on the line. Pour us a freaking drink first.

And geez, play nice.
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Maria_dEl_Camino » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:42 am

Sorry I misstepped.

I am new to ePlaya— had no idea there were categories with rules...
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby ygmir » Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:09 pm

Maria_dEl_Camino wrote:Sorry I misstepped.

I am new to ePlaya— had no idea there were categories with rules...

carry on and have fun! there's lots to see and do here, and welcome
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Elliot » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:21 pm

Update on the Datsun 383 Z....
My brother is visiting again, so we dusted off his 1973 Datsun 240 Z, which a previous owner stuffed a small block Chevy into, claimed to be a 383 stroker.
To recap... he bought it off eBay, sight unseen, and it arrived at my house on a truck.

In our last episode I had failed to get the engine running. Weak spark -- when there was a spark at all. This is an HEI distributor with the coil fastened on top of the cap.

Well, she's running now. And I think I found the culprit. The photo shows the coil's output terminal, which faces down into the center of the cap. There is a small spring connecting this flat disc of brass to the rotor thru a hole in the center of the cap. That flat disc, around 7/16" in diameter, is supposed to be bright shiny brass. And it looks more like rusty iron, with a sand-cast surface and deep pits from some-sort-of erosion.
Reckon there has been some serious arcing there.

We will try to take her around the block tomorrow.

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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Captain Goddammit » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:51 pm

Maria_dEl_Camino wrote:Sorry I misstepped.

I am new to ePlaya— had no idea there were categories with rules...

No harm done, and your MV is one of my all-time favorites, for lots of reasons. It's a full custom, there nothing else out there like it, it's a '59 El Camino... it's a REAL Mutant Vehicle, not a decorated cart. Definitely one of the best ever.
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Elliot » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:01 pm

What the Goddamm Captain said. Wonderful MV.

Fundraising is particularly tricky on ePlaya, because ePlaya is an official part of Burning Man, and thus follows the basic "Nothing commercial" rules of the Event. That said, we actually have permission for fundraising -- so long as it is done within the carefully crafted system that makes it possible to do it at all.

And the moderators are all marvelously friendly and helpful folks (and active Burners), so you will probably be released on parole after only a handful years of hard labor.

As for my brother's Dat-rolet, he drove it three miles yesterday. Very carefully. And he said it was... different from his 2004 Corvette Z06. :roll: :lol:
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Traveller in Time » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:24 am

And it has got tracks :D
Great to see them
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby Janowski710 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:32 pm

Hey everyone! This is my 98 s10 project. Put air ride on all 4 corners and slapped a built 350 in it with a 700r4. Was definitely more work than I could have imagined but I learned a lot in the build process.
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Re: The Car Thread

Postby ranger magnum » Tue May 02, 2017 11:34 pm

Nice S10. I build old chevys, specifically Impalas. Did a cool aircraft set up in my 6duece rag, but now I only build them to oem specs.

Did u c-notch the frame yourself? Did you do a 4 link as well? Would love to see more detailed pix of the fab work you did
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