CalExit 2017

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ShanghaiShin
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CalExit 2017

Post by ShanghaiShin » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:30 pm

This should probably be in the Politics thread but I am going to ask that it have its own topic as the possibilities spill over into many areas, culture, consciousness, etc.

If you live in California, you may have seen a few news bits about 'Calexit' the proposal that the state of California 'secede' from the United States and form it's own country. A few celebrities and one or two tech company owners tweeted messages and then went silent as the main steam press pish-poshed the idea. However the proposal is now morphing into a political movement that is already divided into two factions; one to gain signatures for a 2019 referendum on leaving the union and the other on building a political party modeled on the Scottish National Party, that would eventually run candidates for state wide office.

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Before I go into detail let me mention that I was born in San Diego and was living in San Francisco in the 1980s, where I had the honor of participating in the Cacophony Society's antics (Zone Trip #2 LA), and the Baker Beach Burns before I moved to Asia (where I live in exile in Shanghai,assisting the Chinese burners here), just missing the Zone Trip #4 1st Burn on the playa I worked for various environmental groups such as the Sierra Club and League of Conservation Voters. It was during a campaign against the Peripheral Canal (a project that would divert Sacramento River delta water south to big agriculture) that while campaigning door-to-door that encountered both split the state and nascent California independence opinions from people at their doorstep. I also met Peter Berg of the Planet Drum organization and learned about his ideas of 'bio-regionalism,' where the outline of your home's watershed becomes the outline for political action. I also read Ernest Callenbach's Ecotopia, a science fiction story of an independent West Coast and briefly met the man himself at a Berkeley party.

If you can rub your eyes and take a good look through the fog and mist of time you can see the outlines of California as a nation-in-waitng. We share a language with the rest of America, but in our history, culture, values, and way of life we are unique. The recent election results of Nov. 8 made this crystal clear. Historically California was independent for a few weeks in 1846 before the U.S. invaded and annexed it from Mexico. We avoided slavery, the Civil War, and racist baggage that still exists 'over there.' When Mexican and Spanish-speaking immigrants came in bigger numbers after WWII we accepted them and permitted them to assimilate as they saw fit. The Beats and the Hippies came and we helped get the rest of the nation high. Burning Man, while it takes place in Nevada, is a California cultural creation through and through, a phenomenon that really could only have hatched here in San Francisco.

To give up membership in the United States, peacefully, is a massive leap, one not everyone will necessarily want to make. But in articulating a new nationalism (the good, democratic, all-inclusive, tolerant nationalism) we can create a California Nation inside the U.S.A., fight for our rights and laws in the face of the Trump menace. Many of us who are politically engaged and motivated to resist the new order after Jan 21, 2017 are looking for ways to do so and independent California movement could be one more beautiful way to do that. I used to be proud of some parts of being American, but when I think of California I am prouder still. I close my eyes and see our beaches, mountains, deserts, redwoods, fields of rice, wheat, grapevines, and leafy bud, the Golden Gate, Chinatown, the barrios, glitz, glitter,neon and rainbows... the Ten Principles practiced by an entire people, perhaps. Why not? Let this movement begin and grow now, as yet another alternative for us to consider and possibly choose as we face a challenging future on the planet.

Websites Yes California initiative http://www.yescalifornia.org/
California National Party http://www.californianational.party
California State online voter registration https://covr.sos.ca.gov/
Planet Drum Foundation http://www.planetdrum.org/
State of California's Legislative Analysis office study of feasibility of independence
http://www.lao.ca.gov/BallotAnalysis/In ... e/2016-011

[Notes: Yes California appears the better organized group with a flashy website, advertising an ambitious goal to get over 500,000 signatures to put exiting the union on the statewide ballot in 2019. It has one serious issue in that its leader, one Louis Marinelli is from upstate New York, worked to oppose Gay Marriage in 2011, and now lives in, you guessed it, Russia, where,in Moscow he recently opened a 'California Embassy. funded by a semi-government body' They tweet on #CalExit.
The California National Party, which I am an activist in, is the authentic, California based political party that has the more modest goal of registering 50,000 California voters as member in order to get legal status. They will then run candidates for office. Now they are active in joining in anti-Trump events, such as the Women's Marches this coming weekend Jan 20-21, and they have scheduled a first Party Convention on March 11 in Santa Monica. Their goal is to be a California Center-Progressive-Left party that will stand up for California interests and break the GOP-Republican two party stranglehold on politics. We tweet on the hashtag #FreeTheBear]
I'll be happy to continue this conversation with anyone on any platform.

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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by BBadger » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:15 am

This is such an absolute waste of time and thought. Nothing from this will ever materialize.

Aren't there more worthy causes that you could spend your time and effort on than this navel-gazing exercise?

You could volunteer to help animals at your local Humane Society.

You could help out your city's poor. Teach people to read. Teach people skills.

You could campaign for useful causes in your local municipality, or better yet, in a municipality that needs improvement.

You could visit places outside California so you earn some perspective (and not as a tourist, but a "participant").

You could try fixing places rather than abandoning them when they prove difficult.

No, instead you're taking your cue from a bunch of privileged celebrities and tech company owners who think somehow that they're gonna suffer or something from this president they don't like. The kind of people and companies that hide their riches in tax havens. The people are charitable to the "single digit millionaires" who can't catch a break. Oh right, that Obamacare repeal is really going to fuck with them!


Fucking hippies.
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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by lucky420 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:32 am

Oh for fucks sake. Remember not to long ago when Texas wanted to quit the U.S.? That was stupid, this is stupid. I fucking hate trump and all that he stands for but I will deal with that as best I can and work hard to get those cunty Republicans out of office in 2 years.

As Bbadger said, use your energy for something that might do some good.
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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:24 am

this,


like climate change,



might be a chinese hoax.



( i say this with more tongue in cheek than the orgy dome )
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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by some seeing eye » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:04 am

A third party is not a solution, it fractures support for any policy. It's an opiate.

It has been proven to throw away the power voters would otherwise have. Without third parties we would have had different outcomes in the 2000 and 2016 elections. No Iraq war, ISIS, and no whatever disasters we face in the next few years.

It is much more effective to get people involved in real citizen lobbying and change the existing parties from within. The Occupy generation has demographics on their side to do anything they want if they get organized, including changing the two major parties.

If you really want a challenge, politically unite Eastern and Western California.
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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by ShanghaiShin » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:44 am

Thank you for your list of suggestions. However this movement has practical applications. The Scottish National Party was laughed at in similar fashion when it first appeared in the UK and look at them now, they are the dominant political party in their region. The U.S. Constitution has rusted solid and cannot be revised, let alone amended. The two party system is now a 1.5 party system, The Bill of Rights is under attack and may not last the next 4 years, I have seen the rest of the country and while I still like aspects of America it is a foreign country. A new one, here, is not an impossibility.

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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by ygmir » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:17 pm

some seeing eye wrote:A third party is not a solution, it fractures support for any policy. It's an opiate.

It has been proven to throw away the power voters would otherwise have. Without third parties we would have had different outcomes in the 2000 and 2016 elections. No Iraq war, ISIS, and no whatever disasters we face in the next few years.

It is much more effective to get people involved in real citizen lobbying and change the existing parties from within. The Occupy generation has demographics on their side to do anything they want if they get organized, including changing the two major parties.

If you really want a challenge, politically uniteEastern and Western Northern and southern California.
fixed it for ya
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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by ShanghaiShin » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:46 pm

I didn't expect the knee-jerk conservative reactions to a new and quite viable idea on a Burner site but hey, it takes all kinds. Our graphics person has been producing some lovely stuff which I am happy to share here.
Image
Image
Image
Image

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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by lucky420 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:21 am

Ha! I'm very very far from being a conservative...

I remember laughing when Texass wanted to leave the Union. Feel this is just as silly. I totally understand your whys though
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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by ygmir » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:37 am

you somehow think all Californians agree with you......

Hail Cascadia.
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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:27 am

get the fuck off my creepy zone.
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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by ygmir » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:49 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:get the fuck off my creepy zone.
Is your Creepy Zone the new Perth Amboy?
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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by BBadger » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:07 pm

ShanghaiShin wrote:Thank you for your list of suggestions. However this movement has practical applications. The Scottish National Party was laughed at in similar fashion when it first appeared in the UK and look at them now, they are the dominant political party in their region.
Scotland has historically been a sovereign state, with its own languages, cultures, and armies. The SNP represents these historic claims, as well as other interests for a country within the UK. It'd be closer to a party from Puerto Rico pushing for independence. It is nothing remotely equivalent to a bunch of hippies trying to take their ball and go home because they didn't get their way.
The U.S. Constitution has rusted solid and cannot be revised, let alone amended. The two party system is now a 1.5 party system, The Bill of Rights is under attack and may not last the next 4 years, I have seen the rest of the country and while I still like aspects of America it is a foreign country. A new one, here, is not an impossibility.
This is just a bunch of platitudes.
Last edited by BBadger on Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by some seeing eye » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:24 pm

ShanghaiShin wrote:I didn't expect the knee-jerk conservative reactions to a new and quite viable idea on a Burner site"

is just name calling and inaccurate.

A comparison of a US 3rd party to Scottish National Party is not valid because the UK parliament system has 11-12 parties represented. It is a completely different voting system which encourages many parties, while the US system encourages fewer parties.

There is such general distraction in the USA - Postman's Amusing Ourselves to Death and low voter turnout, that a concerted effort by the formerly uninvolved could control either party.

I think it's great the burner stuff you have done though.
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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by ShanghaiShin » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:40 pm

Americans can be remarkably sophisticated in areas such as computer/IT device tweaking, car engine enhancements, or fantasy football leagues but in the realm of politics we remain hideously underdeveloped. We can do more and make a better nation or even a new one, This election was a 8.0 earthquake and Calexit is emerging as just one part of a new realignment of political and social forces on the continent. It might be fun too.

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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by BBadger » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:49 pm

ShanghaiShin wrote:Americans can be remarkably sophisticated in areas such as computer/IT device tweaking, car engine enhancements, or fantasy football leagues but in the realm of politics we remain hideously underdeveloped.
If the former areas you list are what you consider "remarkably sophisticated", you're probably the least qualified person to assess what is "hideously underdeveloped" in this country. No, this country's political systems are very well designed, resilient, and adaptable. It will outlast our lifetimes just as it has in the past.
We can do more and make a better nation or even a new one, This election was a 8.0 earthquake and Calexit is emerging as just one part of a new realignment of political and social forces on the continent. It might be fun too.
No, you just don't have much perspective in life. It shows from the hyperbole and platitudes you use to describe what has not even been proven to be a major problem.

This election was certainly not an "8.0" earthquake. Nothing has even happened yet. Yet here you are abandoning ship because, oh gee, you didn't get the president you wanted. Or that you think all the good things will be torn down, as if things ever moved that fast in this country. Or because people, who don't share your privilege, voted in someone who wasn't part of any political establishment (you know, the one hideously underdeveloped), specifically to change things up.

This country has weathered much worse, and will weather it still.
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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by ygmir » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:37 am

BBadger wrote:
ShanghaiShin wrote:Americans can be remarkably sophisticated in areas such as computer/IT device tweaking, car engine enhancements, or fantasy football leagues but in the realm of politics we remain hideously underdeveloped.
If the former areas you list are what you consider "remarkably sophisticated", you're probably the least qualified person to assess what is "hideously underdeveloped" in this country. No, this country's political systems are very well designed, resilient, and adaptable. It will outlast our lifetimes just as it has in the past.
We can do more and make a better nation or even a new one, This election was a 8.0 earthquake and Calexit is emerging as just one part of a new realignment of political and social forces on the continent. It might be fun too.
No, you just don't have much perspective in life. It shows from the hyperbole and platitudes you use to describe what has not even been proven to be a major problem.

This election was certainly not an "8.0" earthquake. Nothing has even happened yet. Yet here you are abandoning ship because, oh gee, you didn't get the president you wanted. Or that you think all the good things will be torn down, as if things ever moved that fast in this country. Or because people, who don't share your privilege, voted in someone who wasn't part of any political establishment (you know, the one hideously underdeveloped), specifically to change things up.

This country has weathered much worse, and will weather it still.
well said.
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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by Chowski » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:58 am

I'm listening CalExit. Born, raised and educated in California, lived on the East coast for awhile, but returned ten years ago. Am frankly exhausted of having my taxes funneled to the moocher states whose ignorant, dependent racists continue to vote for pussy-grabbing frauds. Tired of my taxes being funneled into the pockets of the Military Industrial complex, "trickling down" into the grasping hands of the war profiteers and those who spend their lives prancing around with their guns and playing soldier. Done to death with my taxes being funneled to ignorant christofascist states who teach ignorant students bible bullshit instead of science. I'm listening CalExit. The fucktards in flyover land want to elect their hateful, inept, bankrupt fraud with a Russian whore third wife and THEN preach to us about family values? Fine. Let them all starve without California's leadership, education, and ECENOMY! I'm listening CalExit. And there are many, many more people just like me who have had it with the shithole states and the mooching bigots who live there.

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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by forty_eight » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:49 pm

CA Secession isn't really new

The Calexit branding is new, I guess

I agree it's a non-starter but potentially a useful thought exercise

Once you wade through the opportunities and acknowledge the real restraints, there is maybe something left over that is informative

Maybe

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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by Dr. Pyro » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:02 pm

If California leaves the union, can you at least leave Placer County behind? Or better yet, have us absorbed into Nevada. I like the fact that we're mostly rural, vote Republican (second most Republican county in the state behind Nevada County, and this does not include Alpine County because nobody lives there), support personal freedom and reject governmental overreach, and would vote to eliminate the State of Jefferson (sic) income tax. Not perfect, but better than being governed by San Francisco and Santa Monica.

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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by Ratty » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:40 pm

Sorry. What were you saying? I got distracted by Doc Pyro's hair in forty-eights avatar.
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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by ygmir » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:24 pm

Dr. Pyro wrote:If California leaves the union, can you at least leave Placer County behind? Or better yet, have us absorbed into Nevada. I like the fact that we're mostly rural, vote Republican (second most Republican county in the state behind Nevada County, and this does not include Alpine County because nobody lives there), support personal freedom and reject governmental overreach, and would vote to eliminate the State of Jefferson (sic) income tax. Not perfect, but better than being governed by San Francisco and Santa Monica.
where I live. yeah leave me out of being governed by the Bay area and L.A.
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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by Chowski » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:55 pm

Dr. Pyro wrote:If California leaves the union, can you at least leave Placer County behind? Or better yet, have us absorbed into Nevada. I like the fact that we're mostly rural, vote Republican (second most Republican county in the state behind Nevada County, and this does not include Alpine County because nobody lives there), support personal freedom and reject governmental overreach, and would vote to eliminate the State of Jefferson (sic) income tax. Not perfect, but better than being governed by San Francisco and Santa Monica.
Allow me to correct your mistake here - Not perfect, but better than being supported by San Francisco and Santa Monica because we have no economy of our own capable of paving our own roads, supporting our own schools, paying for our police or military, sustaining our physical infrastructure, etc.

It's always the "Radically self-sufficient" libertarian types who are so frequently completely dependent on those of us with actual jobs to support their "rural" lifestyle choice.

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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by ygmir » Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:39 am

Chowski wrote:
Dr. Pyro wrote:If California leaves the union, can you at least leave Placer County behind? Or better yet, have us absorbed into Nevada. I like the fact that we're mostly rural, vote Republican (second most Republican county in the state behind Nevada County, and this does not include Alpine County because nobody lives there), support personal freedom and reject governmental overreach, and would vote to eliminate the State of Jefferson (sic) income tax. Not perfect, but better than being governed by San Francisco and Santa Monica.
Allow me to correct your mistake here - Not perfect, but better than being supported by San Francisco and Santa Monica because we have no economy of our own capable of paving our own roads, supporting our own schools, paying for our police or military, sustaining our physical infrastructure, etc.

It's always the "Radically self-sufficient" libertarian types who are so frequently completely dependent on those of us with actual jobs to support their "rural" lifestyle choice.
don't overlook the idea that "rural infrastructure" allows raw materials and products, to get to your urban areas, where so many "real jobs" (not disrespecting) are tech or service, which use said materials. For said materials and products to be harvested and created, people must live there, and associated infrastructure must exist. As such, the rural areas and people are vital to cities. IMHO
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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by Elderberry » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:53 am

ygmir wrote: don't overlook the idea that "rural infrastructure" allows raw materials and products, to get to your urban areas, where so many "real jobs" (not disrespecting) are tech or service, which use said materials. For said materials and products to be harvested and created, people must live there, and associated infrastructure must exist. As such, the rural areas and people are vital to cities. IMHO
All parts of the country are important and discriminating against the urban or the rural areas is not much better than racial discrimination. And those that discriminate and fail to realize the contributions and needs of people regardless of where they live is a big part of the problem.
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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by some seeing eye » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:46 am

I am getting tired of this rural - urban divide talk (same with middle - coasts divide, class divide,...)

Media, from large, down to blogs, has created sensationalism to generate pageviews. A common tactic is to tell people they are victims. No.

Rural and urban work together and evolve together, we are not separate, and we honor our differences and similarities.
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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by Dr. Pyro » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:16 pm

Try telling that to these Occupy Wall Street/Occupy Democrats morons who supported Hillary Clinton about honoring differences and similarities. If you voted for Trump, you were called (and still are called) the vilest of names and put down as a racist in their estimation.

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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by some seeing eye » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:20 pm

Doc, I respect many conservatives, and with them disagree/agree on many issues. I'm in favor of zero based budgeting and halving the defense budget. Health care reform. Energy. Hey let's discuss!

What you are talking about is a generational culture divide. Millennial generation v other culture is one place to look.

We need to bridge that. Together.

People who voted for Trump for president, or any candidate, are individuals. They voted with heart - logic - tradition - whatever personal. That's how we do it. It is not useful to assume individual thinking of X who voted for Y when there are tens of millions of individuals.

Going to elect Thiel as president of the country of California? Going to have a constitution excluding special economic interests from politics? Eliminate corporate personhood? Immigration policy?
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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by lucky420 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:57 pm

Dr. Pyro wrote:Try telling that to these Occupy Wall Street/Occupy Democrats morons who supported Hillary Clinton about honoring differences and similarities. If you voted for Trump, you were called (and still are called) the vilest of names and put down as a racist in their estimation.

Uhhh Doc? You totally just did that, called people you don't agree with names... :?
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: CalExit 2017

Post by Dr. Pyro » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:17 am

Lucky, you're correct. But being called a moron (something I'm rather used to) is a far cry from being called racist. Morons can become educated, if you're considered a racist you're a lost cause. Big difference in my opinion. But still, I'm sorry to all you morons out there, that was mean-spirited of me and I apologize.

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