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Rian Jackson
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Postby Rian Jackson » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:27 pm

..and there you have it. yet another word of wisdom from the Priest of Wop.

You're my favorite heresiarch.
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bullD
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Postby bullD » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:28 pm

Rian Jackson wrote:I think we all have to decide, at some point, whether to marry (if we are to marry) for love or politics.

I have a growing number of friends and acquaintances from privileged backgrounds who plan to marry to get someone else a visa.


yep, 'if we are to marry'. Not marrying was my thing before her but, what can I say, I fell head over heals. Not marrying is, again, my thing.
I have been offered money several times to marry for visa and just recently I was offered over thirty thousand. I just can't bring myself to doing it.

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Postby tisha2 » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:30 pm

damn.

i'd do it.

30 grand??? hell, yeah.
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Postby diem » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:31 pm

tisha2 wrote:damn.

i'd do it.

30 grand??? hell, yeah.


for 30grand I"LL marry you.
The only man alive with a 4-4 heartbeat

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bullD
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Postby bullD » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:31 pm

he he he, Priest of Wop, he he he...

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Rob the Wop
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Postby Rob the Wop » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:32 pm

Rian Jackson wrote:You're my favorite heresiarch.


That's hairsearch, ma'am. But I wouldn't search too much, it's pretty scary underneath.
The other, other white meat.

Rian Jackson
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Postby Rian Jackson » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:32 pm

See, the folks I know who are into the idea of Visa marriages wouldn't do it for money. Just for the political results.
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Rian Jackson
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Postby Rian Jackson » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:32 pm

Rob the Wop wrote:
Rian Jackson wrote:You're my favorite heresiarch.


That's hairsearch, ma'am. But I wouldn't search too much, it's pretty scary underneath.


I'll shave it if i must.
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Rob the Wop
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Postby Rob the Wop » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:33 pm

Rian Jackson wrote:I'll shave it if i must.


Funny, that's not the first time I've heard that phrase from a woman.
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Postby Rian Jackson » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:34 pm

btw, it's not every day you get called a heresiarch, is it? i can't believe ya just threw it away like that.

People these days. No sense of propriety.
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bullD
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Postby bullD » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:34 pm

Rian Jackson wrote:See, the folks I know who are into the idea of Visa marriages wouldn't do it for money. Just for the political results.


That's why I cant do it, I'm not in it for the money.

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bullD
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Postby bullD » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:35 pm

political results with A marraige?

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Rob the Wop
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Postby Rob the Wop » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:40 pm

Rian Jackson wrote:btw, it's not every day you get called a heresiarch, is it? i can't believe ya just threw it away like that.

People these days. No sense of propriety.


Actually, I never knew the term. Just looked it up. I automatically assumed it was some Catholic title, of which there are fucking millions.

My bad. Thank you for the honorific. Does this mean I am now your spiritual leader, my daughter?

Catholic schoolgirl outfits mmmmmmmmmmmm...
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Postby Rian Jackson » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:42 pm

Daughter... hmm.... leaves lots of wiggle room, in the Catholic sense. Does that mean you still want to see the little plaid skirt?

Great word though, isn't it?
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Postby samtzu » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:44 pm

Rian Jackson wrote:See, the folks I know who are into the idea of Visa marriages wouldn't do it for money. Just for the political results.
Any marriage in my future would have to be for the money.
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Rob the Wop
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Postby Rob the Wop » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:45 pm

Rian Jackson wrote:Great word though, isn't it?


Yup. Already making the funny hat for the outfit.

Now I need to find some entrails from a Christian. Now I KNOW there is a Christian supply place around here- I'm sure they would have some.
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Rian Jackson
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Postby Rian Jackson » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:51 pm

Rob the Wop wrote:
Now I need to find some entrails from a Christian. Now I KNOW there is a Christian supply place around here- I'm sure they would have some.


makes me think of Shaun of the Dead....

Try the Christian bookstores, like the Evangel chain.
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Postby bullD » Thu Feb 03, 2005 3:24 pm

bullD wrote:political results with A marraige?




?????????

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Badger
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Postby Badger » Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:12 pm

Shaun of the Dead....


Don't you mean Shawn of the Dead? The one currently in the drug induced coma?
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Postby Rian Jackson » Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:55 am

Badger wrote:
Shaun of the Dead....


Don't you mean Shawn of the Dead? The one currently in the drug induced coma?


Drug induced coma? Que? Well, I thought I meant Shaun, but since I have no idea what you're talking about, it's possible that I'm wrong. Pop culture references aren't my strong point.
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Postby actiongrl » Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:28 pm

I am not in admin mode here, but since my friend here has just experienced the resolution of a terribly painful experience, and started this thread to share the tale with the people who might care to know the news, I was wondering if I could bring this thread back to shore for a moment to thank everyone in the Burning Man community who helped to track down the assailant and bring him to justice.

Thanks for the hard work and the vigilance - that kind of community support is what makes BRC unique.

As an aside it makes me kinda bummed that on tribe, the same thread has flourished with support and dialogue, but here, on Burning Man's own board people went on for three pages using it to discuss everything except the crime or the victim's well-deserved resolution. I'm not trying to chastise...wait, yes I am. I'm not usually a drift nazi, but to me it seems a little disrespectful, in this case. Maybe I'm hypersensitive about it because I care about Dennis...I dunno. But still.

Rian Jackson
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Postby Rian Jackson » Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:40 pm

I think it's because there were umpteen million pages of dialogue about it here at first, when the incident happened. There's been less to do and less to say on the subject since then, from my standpoint at least. What I mean is that although the people involved in the incident have a lot to say because - well, because they're involved, I've already said all i need to. That may also be true of others. I think it's wonderful that we're getting an update, but i can add nothing on the topic.

And frankly, if the thread hadn't drifted it would probably be dead. At last this way it's continually being seen by people.

But if you prefer thread death, fine.....
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Rian Jackson
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Postby Rian Jackson » Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:48 pm

I think I need to revise the above. I just checked and there don't seem to be that many pages - several threads started by flackmaster, plus some talk on the crutches thread about it.

Apologies.

More likely I was thinking of the HUGE MESS that the incident created in the seattle community. There were times when it looked a bit like a witch hunt.

It would probably be wise to have a community wide conversation about vigilante justice and such - because there were a lot of trying questions that came out of this.

But still, my first comment stands, AG. I see where you're coming from, and there's no shortage of sympathy from here, but I still have to quibble with your interpretation a bit.
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Postby Simply Joel » Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:53 pm


actiongrl
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Postby actiongrl » Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:31 pm

Witch hunt?

Signed confessions, positive ID, digital proof, and the guy still doesn't deny he did it. He doesn't come across as particularly contrite, to be honest, considering the severity of the beating he doled out. Meanwhile, Dennis has a bunch of metal in his arm and $15K in medical bills...he's lost time, his feeling of personal safety, and and has been through months of agony over this.

I'm sorry, I'm not saying I'm the arbiter of appropriate talk, and I definitely wasn't in Seattle for the "total mess" you're describing, but there is one person to blame for it, and it is not any of the people who were trying to track down the clown. Johnny should be the one sorry for causing a disruption in the community.

I just thought that the thread was more appropriate for offering Dennis support and sharing in this moment with him, and that the level of highly vital conversation (over 80 messages on this topic in two days, last time I checked) happening over on Tribe said something to me about our habits on this board.

..and it bummed me out in a more particular way, yes, because Dennis is my friend and has been a volunteer on the team I help manage for a long long time, and I was hoping more people on our own board would be supportive like they're being everywhere else.

I'm glad that Johnny will be tried for these charges - that's what's best for him and for Dennis - and I'm very glad so many people helped to hunt him down. My thanks to those people, be they in San Francisco, Seattle, Utah, Nevada...all of them.


As to vigilante justice, well, Dennis actually did a lot to try to keep people FROM "dealing with it the old fashioned way", and I think that's commendable. Still, the fact that participants helped so much (seems to me the cops would have never been able to catch him without their help)....that says a lot to me about what one can and can't get away with in BRC.

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Rian Jackson
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Postby Rian Jackson » Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:57 pm

I'm not saying that the perpetrator doesn't bear a heavy responsibility here.

I'm saying that it's very easy for communities to begin to point fingers without enough information. It's very easy for 'it was a clown' to implicate a lot of other people. And to some extent, it wasn't fair that in the eyes of the community, the perpetrator was convicted long before he went though any sort of official justice channels.

I'm saying that what i saw are tendencies that are not healthy. All of a sudden the BM community at large - make no mistake, it's because the community cares, and because they're outraged that this shit happens in the community - all turns attention to finding this person. All well and good. Except the nature of the beast is that people are named on suspicion before evidence is put forth, and they're tried in the court of public opinion long before the jury - all of us - has sufficient information.

The potential for abuse is vast. And it's an illness that many communities experience. And it is dangerous.

I'm very happy the person responsible will be held responsible. But i don't believe that any one person controls how we behave and how quick we are to criminalize people within our communities. Neither am I saying that Dennis is in some way responsible for causing this, don't misunderstand me, please. Calling out to the community makes complete sense, as far as I'm concerned.

As far as this tribe/eplaya issue, this board has never been very warm and fuzzy. I'll have to do a search, but i believe that a lot of support was expressed back in the day. I'm sure Dennis received a lot of PMs. And frankly, I'm pretty damn sure he's been getting a lot of our best wishes for some time now. I hope he's found the support he's needed from communities all over - voiced or not. I know it's been out there for him.

Dennis, sorry if you haven't got what you needed from this group here.

Actiongrl, i'm afraid you might have to look elsewhere for pages of sympathy alone.

I hear trible does that well. Good luck.
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Postby DVD Burner » Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:03 pm

:shock: :?
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samtzu
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Postby samtzu » Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:43 pm

Well, I agree with actiongirl, but let me stick my foot in my mouth:

Shit happens... not just someone getting the crap beat out of them (for which the perpetrator should be hunted down and have the crap beat out of them... I'm sorry, but nothing less would suffice for what he has inflicted), but also thread drift...

The thread drift was not disrespecful of Dennis, not intentionally, anyway, but it does happen... this is a dynamic community and it evolves (and involves) more than most because of the active minds which inhabit it... Many of us were very pleased that justice (or what passes for it these days) was begun, but then other issues popped up... so it goes.

True, these issues could have been dealt with on other threads, but they weren't... so it goes...

I know that everyone here here who has ever been involved in a similar situation (and also those who can imagine it) are relived that the assailant was caught... and that something is being done.

But... still... thread drift occurs...
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Postby actiongrl » Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:59 pm

Actiongrl, i'm afraid you might have to look elsewhere for pages of sympathy alone.

I hear trible does that well. Good luck.


I'm not even going to touch that one.

I don't think anyone meant to disrespect Dennis, for what it's worth. That's why I phrased it carefully. I guess that everything looks different depending upon where one sits.


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