Legal drugs as appropriate/appreciated gifts?

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dougnaka
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Legal drugs as appropriate/appreciated gifts?

Post by dougnaka » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:08 pm

Hey all, I'm a BM virgin this year, and am racking my brain trying to think up good gifts. One thing that i love to share with close friends is a few legal drugs that I enjoy. None of the things I would give out would be easily abused, or overdosable, or addicting. In fact, I would hope to spread awareness that there are good legal alternatives to illegal drugs, and if we use them responsibly, and bitch vociferiously at our legislators, then they will continue to stay legal. Now, I'm not mentioning any drug names here, since I am not looking at drawing attention online to these drugs, since it's much easier to just search a forum than it is to pack your things and spend a week in the burning desert.
So, I'd make gel-cap pills, and possibly attach paper notes with brief exlanations to them. I'd hope the paper could be burnt so as not to turn into MOOP, but like I said I'm a BM virgin, and have read about the downsides of things like flyers....

So.. ? thoughts?

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Re: Legal drugs as appropriate/appreciated gifts?

Post by HughMungus » Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:12 am

dougnaka wrote:So.. ? thoughts?
I wouldn't take a pill that a stranger handed to me.

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Lassen Forge
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Post by Lassen Forge » Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:40 am

Things to think about...

How does Johnny Law know what's in that cap is legal? Sure you have this written thing, but how do they know it's not a BS piece of paper with something less legit inside? Is it worth getting your trip to BRC screwed up by a trip to the greybar motel while they find out?

Let's put that aside. I have violent reactions to a few different substances which are legal, one of which is life threatening. I don't want to leave the playa in a black zipper bag. What would you do if a total stranger you gifted got real sick or died from something you gave them?

Plus (and don't take this wrong) how do I know you wouldn't slip something less-than-legal, or even really nasty, into the cap? I don't know you, and even tho you have the best of intentions, you could also be a jerk bent on hurting folk.

I'd think of another gift. Seriously. Too much hassle. Too much risk. Too much liabiliy. And too much cop bait.

BBS

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life is hazardous / too much liability .. funny contrast..

Post by dougnaka » Sat Jul 23, 2005 6:33 am

"How does Johnny Law know what's in that cap is legal?"

An interesting point really, but the opposite is what matters. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. A close relative of mine is a cop, in Nevada no less, and I've spoken with him several times about their drug awareness training. I'd imagine LEO's at BM are quite knowledgeable about illegal drugs. Now, a typical reaction for a cop making a bust and having some extra pills that could be anything is to throw them away and stick to the actual drugs he knows are illegal. Cops aren't stupid, they may be wrong, and authoritarian, or even oppressive, but if they see a gel cap filled with some crushed green matter, and it's obviously not pot, and you tell them what it is, they just might believe you. I also think cops in general have good BS detectors... Anyways, I've read the reports and noticed that most drug related offenses at BM were in the form of tickets, in fact I don't think I saw any drug related arrests.

"Let's put that aside. I have violent reactions to a few different substances which are legal, one of which is life threatening. "

This is an excellent point, and something that I would say is my top concern. I do not want to kill or hurt or bum anyone out. I wouldn't just gift these to random people as they walked by, I would only gift them to people I talked to, built up some trust, and then took the time to explain exactly what this was, it's effects, and potential side effects. The drug I'm thinking about has hundreds of years of use, several studies done on it, and is a very mild drug tamer than alcohol, roughly equivelent to a pot buzz with a clearer head.

"how do I know you wouldn't slip something less-than-legal, or even really nasty, into the cap?"

You don't and wouldn't. But from talking with burners who have taken illegal drugs from people they've met at BM, who didn't make the drugs, and sometimes who haven't even taken the drugs, I'd say this is another trust issue. If you don't trust me, and I give you a pill, don't take them. I don't plan on giving them to people who I don't trust, and often trust is reciprocal.

Thanks for the advice.

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Post by Kinetic IV » Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:13 am

I'll apologize in advance for being direct about this, but IMHO this is THE SINGLE MOST ASININE IDEA TO BE POSTED ON THE EPLAYA since it began. And the reasons are too numerous to list. For a LEO reading this it could all be a cover for other things...how are they to know, do they need to bring a copy of "the pill book" along with them? Innocent until proven guilty applies in the courtroom but for a LEO investigating suspicious activity it doesn't work that way. At the minimum they get to hassle you while they investigate and next thing you know you've got people snooping around that don't need to be there. I can sit here and think of several bad scenarios to come out of this....

Not that my advice means anything but I'd STRONGLY RECONSIDER this idea or scrap it. Surely out of all the things you could gift people with you could find something a little more suitable. Do you have special talents, creative ability, art work, free time to volunteer...anything else to offer but this? I bet you do...and I really hope you try and find something else. </soapbox>
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Post by unjonharley » Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:32 pm

Now now guys, I think your being a little hard on dougnaka. He has figured this from all angles. Even check with a cop. The only problem is, He thinks he going to a Rainbow outing. He figures it's just a ticket for handing shit out. So tickets don't mean any thing. JUst throw them in he glove box.
.
Dude you can get hauled in and held until a lad test is completed. .
Your not fucking with Barny Fife here. Some of these guys don't like being out in the heat. They will take it out on you.
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Post by Badger » Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:46 pm

Thanks for the advice.
That wasn't advice. That was a clue - you fucking idiot.
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Post by spectabillis » Sat Jul 23, 2005 6:45 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:... this is THE SINGLE MOST ASININE IDEA TO BE POSTED ON THE EPLAYA
Not by a long shot.

The whole drug thing has been pushing certain peoples buttons to a point I just dont understand. The drugs are legal, dougnaka seems to have put *some* thought and research into things like law enforcement, so I would have hoped that people realize its a hell of an improvement over the previous discussions.

I was not expecting blatant name calling and thinly veiled desires to dumb someone else down. Definately was not exprecting an actual body slam request, if even half-jokingly.

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Post by unjonharley » Sat Jul 23, 2005 6:57 pm

spectabillis wrote:
Kinetic IV wrote:... this is THE SINGLE MOST ASININE IDEA TO BE POSTED ON THE EPLAYA
Not by a long shot.

The whole drug thing has been pushing certain peoples buttons to a point I just dont understand. The drugs are legal, dougnaka seems to have put *some* thought and research into things like law enforcement, so I would have hoped that people realize its a hell of an improvement over the previous discussions.

I was not expecting blatant name calling and thinly veiled desires to dumb someone else down. Definately was not exprecting an actual body slam request, if even half-jokingly.


~
My my don't poke the bear. Sounds to me like your trying to bait the poor fool in. Maybe you enjoy watching him get bit?
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Post by Kinetic IV » Sat Jul 23, 2005 6:59 pm

Spectabillis, normally I agree with you on a lot of things but I stand behind my earlier comment. And instead of repeating things let me refer everyone back to Bay Bridge Sue's eloquent points about what is so wrong with the idea. After reading that what is there not to understand here?
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Post by Isotopia » Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:13 pm

The drugs are legal, dougnaka seems to have put *some* thought and research into things
I'd argue that point Spectab. Legal drugs are legal ONLY for the person to whom thay are prescribed. Unless we're talking about over the counter remedies which I see no indication of this being the case. Passing them on as a 'gift' or whatever the fuck you want to call it initiates two very clear crimes. Posession and distribution. Each time it happens and arrests are made it contributes to the negative perception of the event by the (mostly local) public. Each time it's openly talked about it reinforces the perception that the event is primarily about consuming drugs. It reinforces and I'd argue justifies law enforcement's attitude that drugs are the norm at Burning Man and warrants an over the top response which we've seen for nearly a decade. To that I'd add that it also goes a long way towards stretching the current relationship with law enforcement that at times is strained and often acrimonius.

And are you suggesting that there is in any way a lack of fucking idiocy at the suggestion that it is somehow appropriate to 1) hand out prescription drugs to strangers 2) at a public event attended by law enforcement personnel 3) who might also be monitoring this board and 4) might tighten the screws on the permitting proces when the process starts anew next year. An argument here that openly suggesting as much might have the potential of either jeopardizing the permit or lead to an escalation in the number of law enforcement persons on the playa.

Like it or not I'm standing by my words. Dougnaka, you are a clueless, irresponsible ass. Perhaps consider attending the event either after you've further contemplated the potential ramifications of your shit for brains 'gifting' idea or someone pops you staright across the mouth with a clue x 4.
The whole drug thing has been pushing certain peoples buttons to a point I just dont understand.
No, what pushes buttons is when asshats come into a very public forum and discuss intentionally breaking the law because they see it as a mis-interpretd means of self-expression at the event as they understand it. The escalating number of folks like Dougnaka who (obviously) give little weight to how their actions might conceivably weigh heavily on the event in terms of event/LEO relationships is something that has been escalating every year. If you or anyone else here doesn't think that this board isn't monitored by law enforcement personnel your naive to the nth. If you don't think that every year the project doesn't have to assure, cajole, negotiate and bargain with law enforcement about issues JUST like this then I'd say you're out of the loop insofar as what some folks within the project have to deal with in order to asure the event continues.

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Government officials

Post by tigerlillie » Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:45 pm

I agree with Iso- just because I am not attending the event, and my activities at work have been greatly changed because I am with child,
I will tell you this, I live in Virigina Beach, and work in the Field for the
FBI, just because I post on this board for fun doesn't mean that I am not with out influence and these types of boards are just not skipped over!
don't piss me off, I am smarter than you!

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Post by Isotopia » Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:53 pm

Get yee to the Jewish Mother tigerlillie. That or the Virginia Beach Crab House (off of Laskin Rd.)

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DRUGS ARE JUST FUCKING STUPID NO MATTER WHAT!!

Post by tigerlillie » Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:59 pm

Dougnaka---- where do I start.. you made a valid point " if you don't trust me, don't take the pills or drugs!!" Illicit and Illegal drugs, for the purpose of and intent to use, sell and to give out is FUCKING RETARDED!.


There are so many different ways to get a high or cop a buzz in life or get be an adrenaline junkie! It is called life! Experience the event for itself and not in a fake haze and clouded haze of drugs! Get high off nature and exicement and the events going on around you. The arts and festivals!
Explore push your limits like you have never pushed them before, go skydiving or something but don't blastaway what little brain cells are left in your head by doing drugs. JUST SAY NO!
don't piss me off, I am smarter than you!

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Post by tigerlillie » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:01 pm

I am very very far from being Jewish!!! :D Don''t worry, you have nothing to fear from me. I am now a paper pusher thanks to my pregnancy with the triplets. By the way, Dougnaka, like the countrywestern, sigline...and I am serious, not joking!!
don't piss me off, I am smarter than you!

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Post by tigerlillie » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:05 pm

Iso, you must love the movie Mommy Dearest! Dam Good Movie!
don't piss me off, I am smarter than you!

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Post by Kinetic IV » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:34 pm

After going back through the thread and all the replies, I'm going to go a little more in depth on this.

Ok, first off Dougnaka proposes the following:
One thing that i love to share with close friends is a few legal drugs that I enjoy. None of the things I would give out would be easily abused, or overdosable, or addicting.
More:
Now, I'm not mentioning any drug names here, since I am not looking at drawing attention online to these drugs, since it's much easier to just search a forum than it is to pack your things and spend a week in the burning desert.
Ok, taking the ball and running with it he's not mentioning giving out prescription drugs, he's saying he'll give out "legal" drugs. He won't name names but I betcha I know one he's got in mind. Kava Kava...known for it's relaxing effects among other things, is most likely on his list.

Here's a link to learn more about Kava from a good source, Erowid:
http://www.erowid.org/plants/kava/kava.shtml

Ok, now that we have some background knowledge of the drug, let's take a look at a sample of Kava. I happen to have two different brands of Kava right here, Gaia Herbs Kava Kava, and Tru-Nature Kava Kava, both purchased at a natural foods store here in Kansas City. Here's a picture of the capsules:
Image
(Tru-Nature is on the left, Gaia's product is on the right)

Now let's assume for a second that Dougnaka is going to give these away in BRC. First off, not everyone will react to the "legal" drugs the same way. Also with this one in particular there's a rare chance of liver problems if you take it. And with other legal / recreational drugs it is safe to assume that they too might share some kind of risk factor for some groups of people. So...by giving this out you don't know if that person is going to be the one that has a reaction or not!

Ok, another point. Put yourself in a LEO's place. You're on the playa and you see someone giving out pills like the one above. You move in and start investigating and since you're in plain clothes you ask for and get to see the capsules like you see above or you may be able to see enough from a distance with the right optics. Now the ones on the right could be anything! Is it Kava in liquid-gel form? What exactly is in there? And why is this person giving them out? I could go on and on but this can snowball quickly. And with a sheriff out there seeking publicity for his re-election campaign and the main permit coming up for renewal in 2006, do you want to have a LEO start investigating stuff like this? No you don't.

I could go on even further but I hope this illustrates the point and covers my objections to the idea. Also with all the new readers to the board it might be prudent to remind them that Badger is a Black Rock Ranger and has certainly dealt with LEO's over the years. If he speaks on the subject he is speaking from experience...and his POV should be given appropriate consideration.

Thanks for staying with me through all that. </soapbox>
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Post by Zulegoona » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:37 pm

I have to agree with BBSue's points. Even some kind of herbal concoction though legal could open both the giver and recipients up to a lot of hassles, and I just don't see it as being worth it. yeah innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, in the mean time you'd be sitting in the can waiting for the substance to be analyzed.

I think I'd even think twice about bringing lose green tea that wasn't in a tea source bag. why ask for problems.

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Re: DRUGS ARE JUST FUCKING STUPID NO MATTER WHAT!!

Post by dougnaka » Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:25 pm

[quote]
There are so many different ways to get a high or cop a buzz in life or get be an adrenaline junkie! It is called life! Experience the event for itself and not in a fake haze and clouded haze of drugs! Get high off nature and exicement and the events going on around you. The arts and festivals!
Explore push your limits like you have never pushed them before, go skydiving or something but don't blastaway what little brain cells are left in your head by doing drugs. JUST SAY NO![/quote]

So you will not be consuming any 1.) alcohol or 2.) caffeine, or 3.) aspirin, or 4.) acetominophin, or 5.)ibuprofin, or 6.)most teas, or 7.) ginseng, ginko, energy drinks, red bull, or anything else that is a "drug"

I realize that I made a mistake when I assumed people would consider "drugs" to mean things that effect the chemistry of your body.

It is highly unlikely that you are not partaking in dozens of drugs a day. And your "save your braincells" tirade is ridiculous as some drugs help your brain cells.

btw, I hope to one day skydive, and I don't use illegal drugs. I use legal drugs occasionally, and am lucky to not have an addictive personality.

The "drug" that I am STILL considering giving out should now be termed and referred to as "legal herbal tea in pill form" as it is more in line with its legal classification.

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Post by dougnaka » Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:29 pm

[quote="Badger"][quote]Thanks for the advice.[/quote]

That wasn't advice. That was a clue - you fucking idiot.[/quote]

Clue, advice, same thing from a not too different perspective..
now, name calling.. entirely new thing... much less appreciated.

I'm really beginning to worry that burning man is full of repressive assholes like you, and isn't really about anything "fun". If we meet on the playa you will mention how many "times" you've been to BM, no doubt? Maybe even chime in a little arrogant "things used to be better at BM".

Well, if I decide not to go due to fear of too many assholes, I've at least decided not to sell my ticket, but to frame it, perhaps with a printout of some of the more friendly words my would be playa-mates have shared with me...

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Kava kava bad

Post by dougnaka » Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:34 pm

[quote="Kinetic IV"]Thanks for staying with me through all that. </soapbox>[/quote]

Thank you for the information. I think you have valid points and agree that it could be a bad idea.

FYI Kava kava does nothing for me and makes my kidneys hurts. I'm amazed they sell it so many places.

I think I won't be giving out any legal herbal pills at BM. Between the good reasons provided here, and the amount of completely rude people, I don't think I want to share anything with anyone.

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Post by Kinetic IV » Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:47 pm

Quick semi-factoids of marginal interest:
Current eplaya membership: 9526 vs. 35,000+ who attended the event last year.
Active eplaya posters, guestimated number: 400. Again out of 35,000+.

My point? Don't let the actions of a few eplayans set your impression for the event. Yeah this is the official ORG sanctioned board for discussing all things BM and then some but it's just a sliver of the real thing.

I'm don't want to be all nicey nicey but it is what it is. I don't like seeing someone bolt out of here thinking everyone's going to be an asshole at BM because of what they see here. Because that's not the reality you're going to see when you get there. You've got barely over 30 days before you'll be on the playa with us, and I think you'll be shocked at what you find there. When you get home and you come back and reread this it will all make sense. You'll understand more...it's just going to be better. I hope you stick around and see for yourself!
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problem solved

Post by tigerlillie » Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:58 pm

here is a way to solve everyone's problem, it could be arranged to have the event totally shut down with just the right phone calls and a few names mentioned to the right people in Washington DC that my husband knows and some others I know, get an investigaton going, shut the event down and problem solved!
don't piss me off, I am smarter than you!

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Re: problem solved

Post by Kinetic IV » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:21 pm

tigerlillie wrote:here is a way to solve everyone's problem, it could be arranged to have the event totally shut down with just the right phone calls and a few names mentioned to the right people in Washington DC that my husband knows and some others I know, get an investigaton going, shut the event down and problem solved!
Now why would you want to do something like that?

As for your other points, there are 35,000+ people who attend the event, and a few of those people have influence on the hill and very deep into the administration. The event will be defended...I wouldn't bet the farm on seeing it shut down.
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Post by spectabillis » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:27 pm

I was talking more about pushing buttons, and letting others push yours. Right now, I am less concerned about the issue and points being made since they seem to be covered here pretty well. Hope no one is expecting me to jump into a debate where my input would not add much value, 'cause that aint gonna happen.

Out of the twelve months of the year where these same posts and issues get debated around - I certainly hope more action goes into the one month just before the event, and how to apply it where the rubber hits the road. A verbal hammer can be a fun tool to use - but are you honestly expecting to see that work with the people you are trying to address?

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Post by Isotopia » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:27 pm

The "drug" that I am STILL considering giving out should now be termed and referred to as "legal herbal tea in pill form" as it is more in line with its legal classification.
If that's all that you're considering then consider my prior posts retracted and a sincere apology extended. Having said that Sue's point(s) are certainly worthy of consideration. Not to mention the body of evidence that suggests liver damage and potential problems with pregnant women. But I digress.

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Post by Isotopia » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:38 pm

Tigerlillie,

I think you might be a bit confused re. my last post. The Jewish Mother thing was in reference to a pretty well known restaurant in Va. Beach. It wasn't a presumption of your ethnicity on my part. Nothing more.

<OK, got that one out of the way.>
it could be arranged to have the event totally shut down with just the right phone calls and a few names mentioned to the right people in Washington DC that my husband knows and some others I know, get an investigaton going, shut the event down and problem solved!
Um, I hope you don't confuse my words this time when I suggest 1) that you flatter yourself in your suggestion that you, your husband or his friends would be able to shut down the event based on the multitude of posts here specific to drugs or other illegal (and non-illegal) activities and 2) you are pretty much full of shit in even making the suggestion.

(fully expecting a retort in which you counter how you/your husband/his friends/etc can do anything they want beacuse of their position in law enforcement)

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Post by dougnaka » Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:18 am

[quote="Isotopia"][quote]The "drug" that I am STILL considering giving out should now be termed and referred to as "legal herbal tea in pill form" as it is more in line with its legal classification.[/quote]

If that's all that you're considering then consider my prior posts retracted and a sincere apology extended. Having said that Sue's point(s) are certainly worthy of consideration. Not to mention the body of evidence that suggests liver damage and potential problems with pregnant women. But I digress.[/quote]

Apology accepted. The Kava kava is along the lines of what I was considering, but good points made by all, and I'm overall glad I made the post, as I was dissuaded from doing something that people with more experience say is a bad idea.

Anyways, hope to see you all on the playa, I can't contain my excitement for BM...

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Post by spectabillis » Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:10 pm

I had to go back and dig this up from Piss Clear.

http://www.blue-period.com/pissclear/Re ... mmies.html

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RE: Legal drugs as appropriate/appreciated gifts?

Post by theimaginarygirl » Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:06 pm

Um...Wow...I think this is the most hostile blog thread I've ever read. I am just out perusing the BM website, getting myself all jazzed for BM this year, when low and behold, I stumble upon this. It made me feel, um...Icky. dougnak is a first time burner, he's no doubt been fed stories about how amazing, wild, crazy, difficult and WELL worth it Burning Man can be.
I cannot believe this is the best you all could come up with for him. I'm impressed (and surprised) that he took it as well as he did, kudos to you dougnak for being the bigger Burner here.
dougnak: please let me officially apologize for the other 34,990 Burners that are cool, interesting and excited to meet and talk to new people and learn new things from these new people.
I didn't realize there was so much hate among the Burning Man community, I've always found our community to be accepting, warm, loving and compassionate. Forget the topic of this blog thread, the overall feeling of Mob Rules makes me a lil sick to my stomach.
dougnak: I hope I run into you on the Playa, I'll give you a big hug and ask you to tell me all about your herbs. (I personally am into Valerian Root!! love the stuff! I also like Reishi, very good).
The rest of you: You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

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