Legal drugs as appropriate/appreciated gifts?

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theimaginarygirl
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RE: Legal drugs as appropriate/appreciated gifts?

Post by theimaginarygirl » Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:14 pm

And one more thing (while we're on the subject)...concerning the Valerian Root, I took a bottle with me last year, I ended up "gifting" the entire bottle away 2 pills at a time. It was very appreciated by many friends, and new friends.

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Lassen Forge
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Post by Lassen Forge » Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:21 pm

Wow, tig - overreactionary, mayhaps just a bit? I don't know if it's the weather or what, but why is it that it seems everyone and their brother is more than wiloling to jump on someone else's butt and get out the fists and swords and condemnations? I just can't wait until BRC this year. Yeesh!

Dougnaka asked a question, wanted advice. All I did was point out the potential negatives of doing his thing (esp. from a law enforcement POV, since I work with a buncha them) so he could take precautions or figure out if it were something he was willing to work with or to find something else... And I get told I should be ashamed? ASHAMED??!! What I am is... I was gonna say offended. I think, tho, it's more like hurt.

Oooh yeah, it's goonna be a year...

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Kinetic IV
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Post by Kinetic IV » Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:34 pm

I cannot believe this is the best you all could come up with for him.
That line irritates the heck out of me. When you walk into a community it is not the place of that community to slow down or stop to bring someone in and get them up to speed on how that community works. One is expected to take at least a few minutes and observe, maybe read through the threads here and get a feel for how things work. If you barge in like a bull in a china closet and expect immediate acceptance...well that ain't gonna happen.

As for your other comments, you need to go back and reread the thread. And yeah I know about Valerian Root...I have plenty of it over here. Look back at my points on Kava and the same applies to ANY pill that is given out.

I better shut up now...this has me thoroughly pissed off.
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Post by AntiM » Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:55 pm

I'm offended that TIG feels she can apologize for me; I've kept well out of this until now. I am so sorry I am not as cool or interesting as TIG mandates I must be. I suck. I am less burny than thou. See how things can be misinterpreted in e-form? I took your friendly commment to Dougnaka as an insult, I did not like you speaking for me. There, that's as hostile as I get.

I took an entire bottle of Vicodin, prescribed to me, and Did Not Share a Single One. I took them all myself. I appreciated my doctor for providing me with a medically necessary drug. There, that's as satirical as I get.

Even Ginseng makes me sick, that's why I've kept out of this until now, I'd have simply been reiterating the points others made so succinctly. I thought everyone was doing a fair job of asking and answering and clearing up any misconceptions as adults until now. This is not an attack on TIG, this is a reaction to the content of a post which put me in a snit. There, that's as simple as I can make it.

Sheesh, to paraphrase: it is Just a Fucking, Bulletin, Board.

theimaginarygirl
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RE: Legal drugs as appropriate/appreciated gifts?

Post by theimaginarygirl » Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:56 pm

Well, I didn't figure it'd take much to piss this lot off. I did re-read the thread, and while everyone was at a different place on the horrible-meter, the entire thread was mean. The only *good* advice I saw given was the guy who said "I wouldn't take a pill that a stranger handed me"
Yes, there was some points made on Kava Kava, and they were correct. Some of the posts toned down, but it was all after he was FLAMED. Sue, you had good advice, but the manner which it was delivered was mean and condesceding. dougnak started a thread of discussion that could have been a very interesting and enlightening thread. Instead he was called (let me see if I can remember them all) "Asshat" "Fucking Idiot" "Retard".
I think I wont read anymore Burning Man blogs, it's a real buzz kill (yes, that is pure living life, adreneline, 100% non-chemical BUZZ KILL).

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Post by Kinetic IV » Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:05 pm

This place where you are posting is a BBS: Bulletin Board System. It is not a blog.

The community is a bit harsh, that is true. However I won't be apologizing for defending an event that I commit so much time and personal funds towards. Anything that threatens that event will get a response from me...I can't speak for the rest of the people on here...but I saw the proposed actions as a clear and present danger to the event, and the response was meted out with restraint but with the intent to try and address the threat. To be blunt about it I think that Badger's reply was actually too nice and I wished he had kicked it up about 4 notches in intensity.

Anyway it's done, as a first timer you made the same negative splash that Dougnaka did. You claim to have re-read the thread....did you really read it, or just skim it? Much of what's in there is good old fashioned common sense. I'll be mean and suggest you reread it again.
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Post by theCryptofishist » Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:05 pm

Hey TIG, I didn't get the chance to post on this thread before so don't forget to plonk me too. I can be so mean. Heck, I bet I made BRR cry...
The Lady with a Lamprey

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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Post by AntiM » Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:13 pm

Ooh you bad Fishie, you! Two plonks on the tailfin for you and you may not enjoy it.

You go K IV, rock on.

I'm thinking of changing my name to: Anti M, Minion of Satan, BuzzKiller Extraordinaire. Too pretentious?

Stop me before I post again.

theimaginarygirl
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RE: Legal drugs as appropriate/appreciated gifts?

Post by theimaginarygirl » Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:22 pm

Kinetic: not a first time Burner...just a first time "Poster". Never felt compelled until now.
Thanks for the technical correction. Let me re-state, "I think I wont be reading anymore Burning Man Bulliten Board Systems, they are a buzz kill".

AntiM: I hope all went well with your medical proceedures. As I recall, they kept you from the burn last year. Hopefully you are back to 100% for this years burn.

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Post by safetythird » Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:27 pm

There are no dumb questions, just dumb asses with superiority complexes.

Doug, please don't let these twits ruin your time. Know what? I gave out loads of legal drugs last year. I can't even count how many Tylenols I possessed and distributed. And vitamins too!

Consider the ramifications and decide for yourself. Too bad the good bits of advice were wrapped in shit and hard to find.

Shame on the rest of these tools!

S3

BTW as long as you're splitting hairs (cuz you're so smart and stuff), in the context of this forum its labeled as a forum and a discussion board. Right there at the top of the page. Not a BBS.

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Post by AntiM » Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:28 pm

No, I was at the burn last year, drugged and somewhat ill, but I was there. Thank you for asking, I am much better this year, well, I think I'm much better this year, there's first annual follow-up diagnostics this week and I've lost what's left of my mind trying not to think about it.

Aw, c'mon, we can all use a good buzzkill now and again. I keep one in camp in case I have Too Much Fun.

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Post by Kinetic IV » Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:28 pm

Well....welcome to the eplaya, even if it was a bit of a harsh entrance. You're on here now, I hope you'll stick around. The more voices on here, the better.
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theimaginarygirl
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RE: Legal drugs as appropriate/appreciated gifts?

Post by theimaginarygirl » Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:42 pm

Awe...see? This is how it should be. All of the sudden I went from feeling like I wanted to hide under a rock, to wanting to find all of you at the Burn and giving you a big fat hug!!! I hope dougnak is still reading this thread.

AntiM: So glad to hear that you are doing better, last year at this time you were not doing so well...I suppose you are right, we do need a buzz kill every once in a while, I guess that's what makes the buzz what it is :)

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Post by dragonfly Jafe » Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:49 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:...I'll be mean and suggest you reread it again.
Here is a piece of advice. Re-read the posts until you understand what these people are trying to tell you (there is good advice there). The comments may have been a bit brisk, but that is the nature of this BBS - if you haven't lurked here enough to realize that, what are you posting stuff like this for? It makes you appear to be a Troll, or worse, an undercover Cop who is trying to bait us into incriminating statements. These kind of posts happen almost weekly, and after a while it gets tiring. You do realize that this BBS is a permanent record and that many LEO's read everything here? Most regulars here are very protective of the event and percieved threats to it, which this certainly can be construed as. Posting at all about drugs here (legal or not) is a sure way to get flamed.

This suggestion is full of peril; for the Burningman event as a whole, and even more so for dougnaka. What are the pluses? Very few. What are the minuses? So many they would be hard to list (although others have made an excellent start).

Despite what may be thought about "legal" drugs, there is a serious risk of being arrested if you follow through with this plan. Sure, a couple of pills will get you a ticket, but a whole VIAL full of them (or multiple vials)??? The LEO's hit dealers VERY HARD at BM...(and rightly so - it is a NO COMMERCE event!) Yes, eventually the charges will be dropped. But first you will be taken from Burningman to Reno. Then they will try to search your camp (and everyone in it). And you will make the News as "another drug arrest at BM" (they sure don't tell how many false arrests/tickets were made afterwards). You may make bail immediately, or be released in a few days, but either way you then have to get back into Burningman. Did you have your ticket with you when you were arrested? No? Guess that means you don't get back in (ticket sales stop on Thursday). What about your stuff? Hope it is still there on Monday (or Tuesday) when you convince someone to let you back in (and your "friends" don't take it for you). this happens every year to people. Please do not be the next (at least carry your ticket in a secure place if you are going to risk this).

If you do get stopped, DO NOT try to give a false identity, they verify your identity on the spot by asking you questions (home address, auto registration, etc) until they are convinced they know who you are. Also, do not try to "argue" with them that the drugs are legal - any sign of resistance is usually a bad thing. "Yes Sir, No Sir, have a nice day!" is the best way to avoid a beating followed by an arrest. And whatever you do, never ever try to touch a LEO, or move quickly in their presence "Is it OK if I now reach into my pocket to pull out a printout of what this material is" as opposed to just reaching for it and shoving it into their faces.

A final bit of well intended advice for both dougnaka and theimaginarygirl - chill. Let your skin thicken (the Playa is a harsh place) If you cannot handle the heat here, you will certainly have an interesting time on-Playa about day 4.

And stop by Blunderland (2 o'clock and Ego, in the Borg2 Art Zone), where I will offer you a completely legal and cold beverage of your choice, and we can perhaps discuss this topic a bit more openly.

regards, Jafe

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RE: Legal drugs as appropriate/appreciated gifts?

Post by theimaginarygirl » Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:19 pm

I generally spend an average of 9 days on the Playa, this year however, will be a bit shorter (only 5) so my skin is pretty thick.
I agree that the mention of drugs on a Burning Man (Blog, Discussion Board, Bulliten Board, whatever) is passe, but I stand by my belief that he was legitimately asking for advice, doing his homework...not just waltzing in handing out sheets of LSD to children assuming that anything goes at Burning Man, cuz hey, its Burning Man. He *deserved* a little kindness. He wasn't proposing ANYTHING illegal. He was ASKING. For that, he was berated and ridiculed.
Maybe if the LEO's do read this, they will start to realize that not all Burners are Burn outs. Maybe next time the arrest someone for possession, and are told that it's a legal substance, they will believe them. And finally, that some of us can enjoy legal fun.

Bay Bridge Sue: I deeply apologize for saying that you were condescending and mean. I had your post confused with another one.

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Ron
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Post by Ron » Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:20 pm

Oh, for crying out loud. As S3 points out, there's a huge range of "legal drugs," that can be given out as gifts without any fear of LE involvement, danger to the organization, danger to the recipient, or so on, given a minimal amout of work.

Frankly, every year I've gone some stranger has returned an act of kindness on my part by giving me some drug or another on playa. Everything from unknown pills handed to me by folk buying ice, to a cold beer after some hot time working in the sun, to countless other examples. In fact, alcohol may be one of the most commonly gifted substances in BRC, and it's hard to think of a better example of a legal drug in our society. Of course, no one here every accepts a cup of coffee or tea from someone on playa, eh? Or doesn't caffine count either?

(And, by the by, while I don't do mystery pills I'm always entertained by them as a gift and getting them are some of my favorite memories.)

Want to give out gell caps on playa? Know what's in them. Be certain it's completely legal. Don't give said caps to anyone you haven't talked about it with and make certain they understand what they're swallowing. Make sure they know as much as you know about possible combination effects and other expected results from said swallowing. Don't give one to minors. Don't lie about what you're doing in any way.

My campmates know if they need EmergenC, any number of vitamins, over the counter meds of all kinds, and various legal herbal stuff they've only to ask me. And if I see folk who are doing poorly I'll offer them water, aspirin, sunscreen, vitamins, or whatever legal substance seems to be of service at the time. Have done so for years without any legal, organizational, or health based problems. Some even call it kindness.

Ron

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Post by dougnaka » Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:36 pm

Ron wrote: Want to give out gell caps on playa? Know what's in them. Be certain it's completely legal. Don't give said caps to anyone you haven't talked about it with and make certain they understand what they're swallowing. Make sure they know as much as you know about possible combination effects and other expected results from said swallowing. Don't give one to minors. Don't lie about what you're doing in any way.
Wow, thanks Ron. This is *exactly* the kind of useful advice I was looking for. I appreciate you treating me like a fellow human being. As for your points above, I wouldn't consider doing it any other way. I'm a bit of a freak when it comes to researching anything I do, legal or not, from aspirin to zyrtec. I research and research, and wouldn't ever give something to someone else unless I felt they understood exactly what it was, what it should do, what it could do, what things mix badly with it, etc.

I also tend to be very sensitive to any drugs I do, especially caffeine. I was considering the information paper that could be burned, so no MOOP to go with the pills....

TIG, thanks, you rule. I'm totally looking you up on the playa for that hug.

KIV wrote: "Anything that threatens that event will get a response from me."
Well, I think it's obvious your angle on the matter. I appreciate your input, even if you are a little rough giving it.

"chill. Let your skin thicken"
... I think this is even funnier... Consider the level of obvious anger in each of the sides posts. Now, who needs to chill? Who maybe has thin skin here?

thanks again all... always a pleasure

(edit note: I fixed my quotes! finally, had to enable BB code.. you'd think I'd know better having a phpBB board of my own...)

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Post by spectabillis » Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:55 pm

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:Wow, tig - overreactionary, mayhaps just a bit?
No more than just about everyone else.
Kinetic IV wrote:One is expected to take at least a few minutes and observe, maybe read through the threads here and get a feel for how things work. If you barge in like a bull in a china closet and expect immediate acceptance...
Even for a newbit, this is much.
dragonfly Jafe wrote:Here is a piece of advice. Re-read the posts until you understand what these people are trying to tell you (there is good advice there).
Its not worth the effort to wallow through that crap to get to whats good.


I watched from the sidelines to see if people could *somehow* back off and things could return to some balance. Its starting to, but it would have been easier to just fucking lock the whole thing.

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Post by Kinetic IV » Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:55 pm

One parting shot. I hope this same level of energy is around if / when the ORG needs community support for the BLM permit process in 2006. My hunch is all kinds of special interests are going to try and stick it to the ORG in the form of more stipulations and other hassles. And hopefully our comments will help offset any negativity that folks like Rex Scates would try and insert into any investigations or public comment periods.
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Post by dragonfly Jafe » Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:07 pm

it all started with "So.. ? thoughts?"...You got them (but apparently not what you expected).

7 responders were definately against the idea (in what could be called a "harsh" fashion)

4 responders were against the idea but framed it "nicely"

3 responders were for the idea

(that's 79% against, 21% for)....Presidents have done worse...

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Post by unjonharley » Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:11 pm

To bad there isn't a small hill close by. If you need to get fucked up, dizzy and puke. You could just roll down a hill a few times. Don't be handing me any legal pills. You might kill me laughing at you.
.
As for the folks trying to save his punk. Get off the cross.
I'm the contraptioneer your mother warned you about.

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Post by Badger » Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:27 pm

but it would have been easier to just fucking lock the whole thing.
Easier perhaps but not acceptable.
Desert dogs drink deep.

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Post by dougnaka » Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:35 pm

dragonfly Jafe wrote: (that's 79% against, 21% for)....Presidents have done worse...
Hmm, in the end I win..... Dougnaka for president!!!

So, this is what I've decided to do.. I'll be taking my own supply of things I want to experience on the playa, all legal, and maybe will share them with new friends. I won't be "gifting" freely pills to anyone who holds out an open hand.. but I wouldn't have done that anyway..

This chat has been a nice experience at the edge of what is burning man online, and I'll remember it as such. I am very optimistic that it's not an adequate reflection of BRC or BM, and I'm guessing that the pain brought from the attacks is felt (also as usual) more by the attackers, so if that's not enough reason to move along, I don't know what is.

Perhaps a discussion for another day is why do so many people cower and hide from immoral laws (no government should be able to make laws about what i put in my body, period). It is a moral act to disobey an immoral law. Of course, this thread was strictly about 100% LEGAL things to put in your body.

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Post by theCryptofishist » Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:59 pm

dougnaka wrote:It is a moral act to disobey an immoral law.
Yeah, but not to take down non-consenting individuals (or events) with you.
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Post by dragonfly Jafe » Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:07 pm

dougnaka wrote:...It is a moral act to disobey an immoral law...

...Of course, this thread was strictly about 100% LEGAL things to put in your body...
It's all fine to stand on your morals, just don't be surprised when the fall comes. Seriously, no one was saying that the stuff you suggesting bringing wasn't legal (well, maybe a few at the beginning...), just that doing what you suggested was not a good idea (in our opinions, which you asked for). Feathers, glass bottles, 2-ply toilet paper, and Pistachios are all things that probably should not be brought to the Playa (even though completely legal). Had you suggested bringing any of those, the response would likely have been as vehement. Doing so would have probable consequences not just for you, but others as well (notably the clean-up crew).

You sound like a sincere and intelligent person, and likely have done all the research, etc and could do this without serious issues (assuming a few basic precautions are taken, like you have mentioned). But there are many others who read this BBS, perhaps not as educated and sincere as yourself, who may think to follow in your footsteps. Our responses are to them as much as you, for as I said before, everything here is permanent, and read by many LEO's. Discretion is the word of the day. There are other places and times when conversation can be less constrained...

Your ultimate solution sounds wise, I wish you the best of experiences this year and always.

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Post by Cabanasprings » Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:31 pm

Hi - I am a field operator with the CIA, FBI, NASA, OSCPA and AARP and all I have to do is push one button and the whole event is over, forever.

Wouldn't it make more sense that the LEO's read the board to identify illegal acitivity and apply that information when they are out on the Playa. They aren't going to shut down the event from anything that is said here because it is all heresay. If that were the case then Rex would get on here with 100 socks and start talking crap about illegal drugs.

Maybe we should get on a AKC chat board and start talking about illegal drugs and try to get the FBI to close all AKC events forever. Please. Of course they read this shit but it's just a bunch of shit talk by a bunch of people with made up names.

And in conclusion, if BM is shut down for abusive drug use it will because of the stoners smoking their big bongs in the middle of the street or the Ravers handing out free E or drug induced situations they can no longer control.

(BTW - I have nothing against Stoners or Ravers - I just don't chose my words very good)

badge number: 169500

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Post by spectabillis » Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:02 pm

Cabanasprings wrote:Wouldn't it make more sense that the LEO's read the board to identify illegal acitivity and apply that information when they are out on the Playa.
Honestly? No.

The vast majority of narcotics bought/sold/used on the playa are by dealers with enough paranoia behind them to never post things like that, they rarely discuss it with anyone who they dont personally know. I will be the first to admit I could be wrong - but all I see is people skirting both sides of the discussion without a lot of knowlege, getting inflamed when others dont agree, and elevating a bunch of rhetoric in an attempt to fill in the gaps.

Now I said narcotics, not drugs - which because of reactions like this makes it just about impossible to distinguish between the two and places an extra burdon on people like me who have to bring medication in a clearly marked container with a copy of the prescription on it. Yeah thats my own personal rant, but I only state it as an example of just how off track things are along this discussion, and the silly attempt to slam someone because they think they are polluting the event.
spectabillis wrote:Right now, I am less concerned about the issue and points being made since they seem to be covered here pretty well. Hope no one is expecting me to jump into a debate where my input would not add much value, 'cause that aint gonna happen.
Edit: Well fuck, just broke that promise. But then again, the points being made regressed...

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Post by ThePikey » Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:07 pm

Think of it this way -

One of the hallmarks of Burning Man is Radical Self Reliance. If someone puts up a post here that seems not so terribly well thought out, others tend to get on their case because thinking about consequences of your actions is part of RSR. And if you don't know what the hell you're doing, why are you even here dumbass?!?

Note: there's also a somewhat greater tendency for people to hurl invective and flame in electronic communications. (See last sentance in the previous paragraph for prime example) Don't let the posts here serve as evidence that all these people are jerks. I mean, I'm sure *some* are, but not as high a proportion as you might think.

Also: I was one of those people thinking to myself 'There's no way in hell I'm going to swallow a pill some random stranger is trying to hand to me'. (Just in case you were curious)


Also: Cabanasprings is my hero. Well, for today anyway.

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Post by Isotopia » Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:00 pm

Also: I was one of those people thinking to myself 'There's no way in hell I'm going to swallow a pill some random stranger is trying to hand to me'.
You

would

not

believe

the number of folks who get sent to REMSA or Ranger Sanctuary who DON'T follow that line of reasoning.

Seriously.

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Ron
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Post by Ron » Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:17 am

Isotopia wrote:...
the number of folks who get sent to REMSA or Ranger Sanctuary who DON'T follow that line of reasoning.

Seriously.
Sure I would. A camp mate of mine last year was almost one of those folk and his experience has made one of our favorite playa stores.

He found a bullett (a small metal cylinder used to store powders, not the kind you put in a gun) on the playa filled with some white powder that he couldn't identify. When he told me that I asked him if he still had it and wanted me to take a look at it.

"Ah, no," he replied, "I snorted a bunch of it a bit ago and was wondering if you could watch me and figure out what it was by how I react."

"It was rat poison," I answered, "You fucking idiot. You're eyes are rolling back in your head right now."

Soon he and his girlfriend both had a full nod on and were the butt of endless ridicule by the rest of the camp for being such fools. He was wandering around camp in his underwear looking like a total moron. Especially after we used the misters to soak the front of his shorts, giving him that oh so high quality, "pissed myself," look.

So, yeah, I'd believe you when you say that other folk will take stuff they don't know....

Ron

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