Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

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Token
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Re: Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

Post by Token » Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:19 am

FlyingMonkey wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:19 am
JohnEBGud wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:42 pm
The Facebook group that is serving as a repository for Renegade Burn info is Black Rock Plan B. It is a private group so you'll have to request an invite to view and join in the discussion.

The latest information posted there suggests:
  • Permits are only required for large camping groups.
  • What constitutes a large group is not defined, but most are assuming 50 or more, but again, no one has been able to cite an official figure.
  • Groups of campers exceeding the permitting threshold will be subject to fines.
  • No one in the FB group currently knows of any permits that have been requested or granted.
  • A requisite for the permit is proof of $1 million liability policy. There are various opinions on whether such a policy can be obtained for what is officially an unorganized event.
Of course, there's no assuming that what is posted on a FB or Reddit page is factual, but the stated purpose of the Black Rock Plan B group is to quash rumors and help people plan and so far has been a reliable source of information.

Sorry (many will disagree with me on this) but the hole point of a non-event is for people to just show up without any of the organizational bullshit that happens when people want to feel important and "in charge" of something. That's the root of most drama found on the Playa.

Last year by all accounts was great and they didn't have a fucking private FB page.

When I saw people starting to plan and organize a baby burn I threw up in my mouth a little. What could have been a great non-event is now lost.

I'm sure some of these people think they are doing a great thing & I hope the babyBORG has a great baby burn. Too bad they can't envision a non-event without their meddling and had to hi-jack what would have happened anyway.

Like I said, many will not see eye to eye with me on this. I embrace your difference of opinion. I just don't want to drive 2,000 miles & hang out with burner busy bodies.

Looks like I have to go to freaking Hawaii with Captain now (metaphorically of course) :shock:
You got my vote for mayor of non-BRC!

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Re: Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

Post by sadie » Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:04 pm

I totally agree. You put my thoughts into words…
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Re: Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:44 pm

FlyingMonkey wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:19 am
Looks like I have to go to freaking Hawaii with Captain now (metaphorically of course) :shock:
It really doesn’t suck.
When you’re there, you don’t give half a crap about that dirty desert.
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Re: Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

Post by some seeing eye » Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:46 am

All the news that fits to print:


Good Morning,

You are being contacted because you have reached out with questions or you have submitted an application for a commercial or organized group Special Recreation Permit (SRP) to come out to the Black Rock Desert playa this summer.

I am writing to inform you that the Bureau of Land Management, Winnemucca District, Black Rock Field Office (BLM), has made decisions regarding the activities mentioned above. These decisions have been made with Public Health and Safety, and Resource Protection in mind, and we hope that you all and other visitors will respect these decisions. The decisions are:

No Organized Group SRPs will be authorized/issued. People are still welcome to visit the Black Rock Desert playa and camp.

No Commercial/Vending SRPs will be authorized/issued. Camps must be self-sufficient. No deliveries, or services will be authorized. This includes porta-potties. Camps can get their own toilets, off of public land, and bring them out themselves, then return them. This must all be done by someone in your camp. No pumping services will be authorized.

The BLM will also be implementing Temporary Restrictions of the playa. These restrictions include:

Commercial activities, as defined at 43 CFR 2932.5, are prohibited.

Camping use is limited to the flat and un-vegetated playa surface.
Building of structures is prohibited. A structure is defined as construction, placement or organization of parts, pieces, or objects that are not intended for sleeping, cooking, or protection from the elements, such as shade tents.

Ignition of fires other than a campfire is prohibited, unless specified by a fire prevention order. Campfires may only be burned in containers that are sturdily elevated six (6) inches above the playa surface and in a manner that does not pose a risk of fire debris falling onto the playa surface. Plastic and nonflammable materials may not be burned in campfires. Burning of construction materials, pallets, or wood with screws or nails is prohibited.

Possessing, discharging, using or allowing the use of fireworks, pyrotechnic or incendiary devices is prohibited.

Possessing, shooting, or causing to burn; explosives or explosive material, to include binary explosive targets is prohibited.

The discharge and dumping of grey water or black water onto the playa/ground surface is prohibited. Grey water is defined as water that has been used for cooking, washing, dishwashing, or bathing and/or contains soap, detergent, or food scraps/residue, regardless of whether such products are biodegradable or have been filtered or disinfected. Black water is defined as waste water containing feces, urine and/or flush water.

Depositing human waste (liquid and/or solid) on the playa/ground surface is prohibited.

Dumping or discharge of vehicle oil, petroleum products or other hazardous household, commercial or industrial refuse or waste onto the playa surface is prohibited. This applies to all recreational vehicles, trailers, motorhomes, port-a-potties, generators and other camp infrastructure.

Storage of over 20 gallons of fuel must include secondary containment capable of holding and preventing leaks and spills on the playa surface. Storage of less than 20 gallons must include a spill pad or other measures to prevent leaks and spills. Secondary containment is defined as capturing the entire contents of the largest tank in the containment area in the event of a leak or spill.

Unauthorized dumping or discharge of fresh water onto the playa surface in a manner that creates a hazard or nuisance is prohibited.

Aircraft landing, taking off, touch and go’s, and taxiing is prohibited. Aircraft is defined in Title 18, U.S.C., section 31 (a)(1) and includes lighter-than-aircraft and ultra-light craft. However, in an emergency, fixed wing aircraft and helicopters that are providing emergency medical services are not prohibited.

Possession of an open container of an alcoholic beverage by the driver or operator of any motorized vehicle, whether or not the vehicle is in motion, is prohibited. An open container is defined as any bottle, can, or other container which contains an alcoholic beverage, if that container does not have a closed top or lid for which the seal has not been broken. If the container has been opened one or more times, and the lid or top has been replaced, that container is an open container. The possession of an open container includes any open container that is physically possessed by the driver or operator or is adjacent to and reachable by that driver or operator. This includes, but is not limited, to containers in a cup holder or rack adjacent to the driver or operator, containers on a vehicle floor next to the driver or operator, and containers on a seat or console area next to a driver or operator.

All motor vehicles must comply with the following requirements:
A. The operator of a motor vehicle must possess a valid driver’s license.
B. Motor vehicles and trailers must possess evidence of valid registration.
C. It is prohibited to ride on the top of or outside of the passenger compartment (the area intended for sitting inside a vehicle).
D. Motor vehicles, other than a motorcycle or golf cart, must be equipped with at least two working headlamps and at least two functioning red tail lamps. Motorcycles or golf carts require only one working headlamp and one working red taillight during night hours, from a half-hour after sunset to a half-hour before sunrise. Trailers pulled by motor vehicles must be equipped with at least two functioning tail lamps and at least two functioning brake lights.
E. Motor vehicles, including motorcycles or golf carts, must display a red, amber, or yellow light brake light visible to the rear in normal sunlight upon application of the brake.
F. Except for the flat and un-vegetated playa surface, all vehicle use is limited to designated vehicle routes (roads and ways).
G. Motor vehicle is defined as any device designed for and capable of travel over land and which is self-propelled by a motor.
H. Trailer means every vehicle without motive power designed to carry property or passengers wholly on its own structure and to be drawn by a motor vehicle, this includes camp trailers, pop-up trailers, 4’x7’ or larger flatbed trailers, enclosed cargo trailers, or RV style trailers.

The possession and or use of lasers is prohibited. A laser means any laser beam device or demonstration laser product that emits a single point of light amplified by the stimulated emission of radiation that is visible to the human eye.

The discharge of any firearm is prohibited within the flat and un-vegetated surface of the Black Rock Desert playa. Firearm means any pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun or other device which is designed to, or may be readily converted to expel a projectile by the ignition of a propellant. Discharge means the expelling of a projectile from a firearm. Discharge of firearms outside of the flat and un-vegetated playa surface requires a safe back shooting across or towards roads and trails is prohibited.

The use or discharge of flame effects is prohibited. Flame effect is defined as the combustion of solids, liquids, or gases to produce thermal, physical, visual, or audible phenomena. This includes all flames that are automated, switched, pressurized or having any other action than simply being lit on fire; as well as projects using propane or other liquid or gaseous fuels.

We also ask that everyone continue to follow Leave No Trace principles and follow all other state and local laws.

Please be respectful of the communities and services you use when coming to the Black Rock Desert playa.

Please use best judgement and know your limits. The BLM wants visitors to have a good time when visiting public land but we want you to be safe. Be aware that Emergency Services (medical, fire, law enforcement) are limited around the area.

I want to thank you all for reaching out and being responsible recreationists. I hope to see you out on the Black Rock Desert playa this summer. If you have questions please email me to schedule a time to talk. Thank you.

Chelsea McKinney Burning Man Project Manager Bureau of Land Management Winnemucca District Black Rock Field Office
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion

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Jackass
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Re: Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

Post by Jackass » Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:50 pm

Damn, it sounds like they're dropping the hammer on a few things that were no big deal last year... we'll see how this goes. Hey, thanks for trying to organize an unorganized event... friggin idiots

It was all unnecessary attention, how's that for a response to your permit inquiry?!

It was so simple, if you can't shit in a bucket, don't go.
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

Post by JohnEBGud » Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:18 pm

Yeah, I think either that BLM was caught off guard last year or they realized from the buzz on social media and publicly posted city maps that the population this year is likely to be 10x greater than last.

Porta potties are allowed, you just can't have them delivered to the Playa by an outside vendor. They have to be rented off playa and brought in and out by a camp member. On the other hand, pump-outs are prohibited so you don't want to be the camp member responsible for returning them.
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Re: Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

Post by Popeye » Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:19 pm

Well, it's better than I expected but worse than I hoped. They must have gotton a whole bunch of "We don't want your bullshit letters". I encourage everyone to write one, doesn't have to be well written just expressive. :D
I wonder how much of this is salami slicing- adding a little bit of regulation then a little more then more and more.
I have to say I really like the no commercialization.
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Re: Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

Post by lucky420 » Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:33 pm

Jackass wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:50 pm
Damn, it sounds like they're dropping the hammer on a few things that were no big deal last year... we'll see how this goes. Hey, thanks for trying to organize an unorganized event... friggin idiots

It was all unnecessary attention, how's that for a response to your permit inquiry?!

It was so simple, if you can't shit in a bucket, don't go.
You get all my upvotes today :coffee:
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:15 pm

I think they think what I think.
Last year was cool, this year was shaping up to be a train wreck.
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."

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some seeing eye
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Re: Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

Post by some seeing eye » Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:52 pm

Jackass wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:50 pm
Damn, it sounds like they're dropping the hammer on a few things that were no big deal last year... we'll see how this goes. Hey, thanks for trying to organize an unorganized event... friggin idiots

It was all unnecessary attention, how's that for a response to your permit inquiry?!

It was so simple, if you can't shit in a bucket, don't go.
Yes!

Actually it may be worse. There is a report the rules start July 1, in other words, including the 4th of Juplaya.

The organizer online attention whores got the attention they deserved and brought it on everyone too. Several people here have said similar. Last year was better, as usual.

It also sounds like that BLM letter was written by a lawyer.
Last edited by some seeing eye on Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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burner von braun
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Re: Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

Post by burner von braun » Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:19 pm

The first rule of going renegade is...

You don't talk about going renegade.

Really though, it was never going to fly under the radar this year. At least BLM released this statement now, rather than in August.

But yeah, not good if rigidity begins to spill over into other events that happen on playa. I still think that Juplaya sounds to me much more like the experience many seem to be craving.

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Re: Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

Post by lucky420 » Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:00 pm

some seeing eye wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:52 pm
Jackass wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:50 pm
Damn, it sounds like they're dropping the hammer on a few things that were no big deal last year... we'll see how this goes. Hey, thanks for trying to organize an unorganized event... friggin idiots

It was all unnecessary attention, how's that for a response to your permit inquiry?!

It was so simple, if you can't shit in a bucket, don't go.
Yes!

Actually it may be worse. There is a report the rules start July 1, in other words, including the 4th of Juplaya.

The organizer online attention whores got the attention they deserved and brought it on everyone too. Several people here have said similar. Last year was better, as usual.

It also sounds like that BLM letter was written by a lawyer.
The BLM rules that they’re enforcing this year are still the same rules they’ve always enforced. There might be 1 or 2 new ones (source Juplaya FB page) so same old

People’s heads be exploding all over FB. Y’all can still go camping up here and be weird :coffee: :mrgreen:
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

Post by M F Bonz » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:27 am

Snickers~
That’s the way I read it. Kind of expected this from BLM.
I would have been surprised if they’d actually gave out permits.
Bump and I will be going … not sure about the rest.
Still waiting for some people to respond.

See you in the dust.
I’ll bring the beach.
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Re: Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

Post by The Rod » Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:18 am

Interesting to note that sending out personally signed emails as to what is and isn't allowed does not equal either laws, official closure orders and/or regulations and restrictions. Most of that shit is legally unenforceable... Sure it wont stop the LEO's from trying to fine you for erecting your art or find probable cause to further infringe on your rights, because we all know that pigs will be pigs.

It's worth waiting to see if BLM releases an actual official statement or public notice of usage restrictions.

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Re: Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

Post by some seeing eye » Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:42 pm

If you have time to waste on the book of face...

$64k question: did anyone get ticketed this weekend for any of the “Rules” BLM published for this year?

"The BLM rangers were great. One ranger up on our Tesla coil extravagant lightning performance and asked permission to take a video to show his colleagues in order to win their informal “coolest thing seen on the playa this weekend” contest."

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1009341 ... 3562988753

TL:DR Juplayans and LEO were well behaved
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Re: Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

Post by M F Bonz » Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:26 pm

some seeing eye wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:42 pm


TL:DR Juplayans and LEO were well behaved

I’m not sure why anyone would be surprised juplaya was relatively uneventful as far as problems. It’s been going on for years without any major problems. No reason that would be any different this year.
Possible the camp out in August can be the same with no major problems???
Hard to say….

Just remember ignorance of the law is not a defense. If somebody tells you there could be some laws restricting what you do out there. That’s a courtesy.
It’s not in their responsibilities to teach you those laws …it’s yours to know them ….well if you don’t want to be ticketed or arrested.

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Re: Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:02 am

I find it amusing that the BMORG will only refer to going without them as “visiting the playa”
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Re: Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

Post by some seeing eye » Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:26 pm

What I find interesting is that BLM used Washoe County as LEO instead of Pershing County where the land lies.

The legal complexity of continuing that is beyond my knowledge. But it would be a big step up to the burn, and Hualapai, if that could be made so. That's why we pay the BORG the big bucks to maneuver shit.
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Re: Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

Post by gaminwench » Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:04 pm

If BRC were gerrymandered from Pershing to Washoe ... ???
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Re: Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:50 am

gaminwench wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:04 pm
If BRC were gerrymandered from Pershing to Washoe ... ???
I just learned a new word today
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Re: Are you still planning a trip to the Black Rock Desert?

Post by XPTom » Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:37 pm

If we're going to gerrymander don't we need to have an election process to gerrymander? I vote no on the election idea. ......Tom
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