Decarbonized camping?

[Crissa]

I'll start with a little story. We've mostly camped independently, and even our first year, experienced burners didn't think we were newbies. They loved us camping next to them, all quiet yet bright. One reason is that we've always brought solar with us since 2008, our first year. We only brought a 12-watt amorphous glass panel that year and powered a couple strings of LED light... It still lasted all night long and was of course, totally silent. The next year, we upgraded to four panels, and ran white LEDs along with our colors. Then to a 100-watt fold-out panel, then 180-watts... with an AGM battery that couldn't hold it all. This year, our seventh (I think, maybe I lost count) we dialed back to the one 100-watt panel but a lithium LFP battery that held nearly 3x the power the lead-acid AGM battery... Expensive, but it still replaced the car battery directly. No more running out of power in the night!

That said... It really seems like the number of generators has gone up. Every RV has one. Every sound camp. So many structures have them. The big industrial ones aren't so bad, but the common retail ones are soo noisy.

It'd be really neat if there were camping areas or villages exclusively generator and fossil-fuel free camping? The AEZ is a village, and they're cool and all, but they're just one camp. And the idea of Hushville was great, but when we looked into them, they had additional rules of no music. In 2022 we camped across from IllumiNaughties and let our lit arch be an additional chill zone for them. We're not afraid of sound, it's noise we don't like.

It's cool seeing the big solar camps spread across the city now. But could there be space for those of us a little less organized, or just not wanting to be stuck between others' generators?

-Crissa

[Elorrum]

I think it’s just going to get worse. The number of people who expect that the only way to burn is with an ac for their shiftpod or rv or hexayurt is going to make this a more difficult thing to avoid. I was talking to a second year burner who sees air conditioning as a necessity for next year. She lives in New York. The volume of material and transport and storage to make that work blows my mind… why?! (What about baffle boxes? I don’t think they are even a consideration any more.) Sleep at night I suggested. I picked up a packed shiftpod this year to put it in someone’s trailer, and realized it would fill half of my hatchback car. That’s her desired necessity, and she doesn’t have a drivers license, or her own camping gear even. These people should not go to the desert!

I like quiet camping. At burning man… I hope to not listen to or smell a generator right next door. I think outside is a shared space that deserves everyone’s respect. This is a good feedback item for the org. as it will be increasing. https://burningman.org/feedback-loop/ .
Walk in camping with a wagon might be at the moment the only guaranteed way to avoid this. Or try an ad hoc neighborhood in open camping if you could.

[some seeing eye]

OP, your place to start is by joining the AEZ message board and Zoom calls. Second, connect to all the BMORG solar and sustainability groups and their meetings announced in the last few months on the Burning Man Journal.

Between those, a variety of possibilities are possible for 2023.

[Popeye]

It's late, but lets start by eliminating 2 cycle generators. There is absolutely no reason for someone to show up with two Sears 3.5 kw 2 cycles. and run them all night.
And yes, this goes into the feedback loop.

[motskyroonmatick]

I think it’s just going to get worse. The number of people who expect that the only way to burn is with an ac for their shiftpod or rv or hexayurt is going to make this a more difficult thing to avoid.

Regretfully I think this is true.

I made a big solar array and system that powered the interactive portion of camp this year. It was great! We ran the welder off of it linked to my travel trailer system. It was a real victory and the old power system we have would have burnt through 100 galons of diesel and an oil change in that time period. Man people asked about it and I had some pretty good rap sessions about solar. From what I am seeing camps are trying to find out what it would take to give every Travel Trailer or Shift pod a circuit for AC. People are talking about getting more and bigger generators. I think it is going to get worse. Solar is a big expense and a large undertaking to build but it's really amazing to not have the noise or fumes. I think we will only see a portion of BRC go solar. It's too easy to just buy in to power with a generator rental and fuel deliveries.

[Jackass]

People have totally forgotten how to "embrace the suck" that burning man can be. I had at least half a dozen generators operating within 30ft of my trailer all week long. The camp right next to me decided (for whatever reason) to run their propane 3500 in a small 1 person tent along with 4- 20# tanks of propane, it was about 3 ft from my trailer. Over the generator's regular operating noise I started to hear what I thought to be a slight hissing sound, which grew louder over the next few minutes. I got up to go check it out and found the exhaust and engine heat were aimed directly at one tank that was blowing off propane from the safety valve, in order keep the tank from over pressurizing and exploding altogether. We burned our hands grabbing the gennie and it's supply tank out of the tent and shut that shit down. A backfire, loose spark, or nearby open flame and who knows what kind of explosion that would have made. One person was in camp, inside their trailer and didn't know wtf was going on. The tank continued to blow off propane for the next 20-30 minutes until it cooled off enough...

If something doesn't seem right, take swift action. Don't assume that campers around you know wtf they're doing with various fuels and their newly purchased equipment that they know nothing about.

I spent the entire week with just my deep cycle battery for a fan and lighting, no ac pleasure at all this year. It was just my neighbor's generators that kept trying to kill me all week long...

[motskyroonmatick]

People have totally forgotten how to "embrace the suck" that burning man can be. I had at least half a dozen generators operating within 30ft of my trailer all week long. The camp right next to me decided (for whatever reason) to run their propane 3500 in a small 1 person tent along with 4- 20# tanks of propane, it was about 3 ft from my trailer. Over the generator's regular operating noise I started to hear what I thought to be a slight hissing sound, which grew louder over the next few minutes. I got up to go check it out and found the exhaust and engine heat were aimed directly at one tank that was blowing off propane from the safety valve, in order keep the tank from over pressurizing and exploding altogether. We burned our hands grabbing the gennie and it's supply tank out of the tent and shut that shit down. A backfire, loose spark, or nearby open flame and who knows what kind of explosion that would have made. One person was in camp, inside their trailer and didn't know wtf was going on. The tank continued to blow off propane for the next 20-30 minutes until it cooled off enough...

If something doesn't seem right, take swift action. Don't assume that campers around you know wtf they're doing with various fuels and their newly purchased equipment that they know nothing about.

I spent the entire week with just my deep cycle battery for a fan and lighting, no ac pleasure at all this year. It was just my neighbor's generators that kept trying to kill me all week long...

Damn that was a close call. Fucking A!

[Token]

Fucking close call Jackass.

Good thing it wasn’t me there in that situation. I’d have a fire engine out there so fast flushing the whole thing with spray they would have learned a good lesson.

BM - the incubator of stupid!

[Elorrum]

As people move towards the big electrical uses they want for ac and ebikes, there will be a bigger fuel need for generators. Nothing requires a bit of safety like lots of explosive flammable fuel. 2019, we had village members with gallons of gasoline inside a nice hot closed up van. Individuals falling from high things, as a major danger, is no competition for a big fire.

There are people with desires for ac and battery powered bikes, with all the money they need, and no clue what they are buying. Big camps are being put together by “event planners” where they used to be built by groups of recreational and professional handymen, contractors and engineers. The expertise is lacking in all phases.

“Oh, yeah. Oooh, ahhh, that’s how it always starts. Then later there’s running and screaming.” - Dr. Ian Malcolm (Jeff Goldblum) in Jurassic Park: The Lost World.