The necessity of the Burning Man ethos

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:16 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
oneeyeddick wrote:True, for right now anyhow.

* inserts ball gag *
Does anybody else find it reassuring that OED inserted that up his own ass? You just gotta have a soft spot for inept bondage.

hahaha Fishy, you may be scared, I almost posted a very similar thought, at the same time.............
you were just quicker..............

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:00 pm

It has become painfully clear to me now that this thread was started by "can't sit still".

I empathize.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:06 pm

hey now.........

*watching hugely muscled, handsome OED kicking sand at other kids on Venice beach*..........

Deb Prothero · Post by **Deb Prothero** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:30 pm

OED, speaking of the original thread, we were talking about decommodification to save our society.

Now you're spending your spare change on sex toys. How is that helping?

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:13 pm

You are right, it's not helping.

It is supposed to be about keeping it local, and using less.

Anyone wanna barter some spankings for some brandings ?

I've been a bad, bad boy.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:38 pm

ygmir wrote: *watching hugely muscled, handsome OED kicking sand at other kids on Venice beach*..........

Hey, in Venice it's called the Lido. Kinda like the cookies.

Actually, exactly like the cookies.
Whhoops. Wwas that commodification?

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:55 am

Deb,, " I believe that the de-commodification that we preach at Burning Man will need to be spread universally throughout the West."

I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. That woul'd mean giving up being; self-absorbed, self-centered, hedonistic and greedy. Currently, our sense of security comes from our individual horde of assets. It would be tough to convert back to where we placed our faith in our community.

Deb Prothero · Post by **Deb Prothero** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:01 pm

can't sit still;

Unfortunately I agree that it will be difficult. But doesn't it warm your heart that at least in one place on this planet, we are learning the gift culture and every year more and more people are interested in going.

That's what gives me hope. Well, that and the online love among burners to try to support each other as we take the principles home for the other 51 weeks.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:11 pm

Yes, I love the gift culture. I've had 4 bicycles stolen. My generosity is bottomless.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:29 pm

can't sit still wrote: Yes, I love the gift culture. I've had 4 bicycles stolen. My generosity is bottomless.

when I asked if I could have them, no one said "no"..........

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:03 pm

The world is currently run by force and greed. Here's a quote from Coolidge;

Peace must have other guarantees than constitutions and covenants. There is another element, more important than all, without which there can not be the slightest hope of a permanent peace. That element lies in the heart of humanity. Unless the desire for peace be cherished there, unless this fundamental and only natural source of brotherly love be cultivated to its highest degree, all artificial efforts will be in vain. Peace will come when there is realization that only under a reign of law, based on righteousness and supported by the religious conviction of the brotherhood of man, can there be any hope of a complete and satisfying life. Parchment will fail, the sword will fail, it is only the spiritual nature of man that can be triumphant.
--Calvin Coolidge

Deb Prothero · Post by **Deb Prothero** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:23 pm

I'm not real big on Coolidge's reliance on religious conviction having anything to do with hope.

However he ends the quotation by saying something far more relevant: "It is only the spiritual nature of (hu)man(ity) that can be triumphant."

That offers some hope.

As for the world being run by force and greed, I agree that this is the way of things. But it doesn't have to be. We can just stop participating especially in the commodification of our lives.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:39 pm

Deb, leave out the word "religious" and it still reads " conviction of the brotherhood of man" .
That idea stands alone just fine. It's not very popular right now. Indications are that we are in a death-spiral. Survival will trump brotherhood,,, sadly.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:50 pm

can't sit still wrote: Indications are that we are in a death-spiral.

Cites?

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:14 pm

Off topic

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:19 pm

can't sit still wrote:I looked for a thread close to what I wanted,,, no luck.
Here's an article talking about our current financial situation. Many of the things listed in the article echo the beliefs of Larry Harvey. The author lays out clearly the theme [or disease] of commodification. The article shows a progression to a society where gifting and self sufficiency of groups is the only salvation. It's an interesting, alternate view of our society.
Seeing as how the default world is so reviled by so many, this article may be a blueprint for change. Dan
http://www.realitysandwich.com/money_an ... vilization

Sorry, I didn't bother checking the link, but does it revolve around "temporary autonomous zone?" Whether the org likes it or not, the event is anarchist in its origins and (at least early) history. Its a beautiful concept, a beautiful dream for mankind...but, mankind isn't that smart or open minded. We still have republicans don't we?
As a social experiment, its bold and innovative, but not realistic. The personal experience is more promising...its at least taught me how to hate people less, and be more understanding. Its definitely something more people need, but aren't ready for.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:51 pm

You're right on all accounts. Even though the hero may get the girl and ride off into the sunset, he still has to get up and punch a timeclock in the morning. Burning Man certainly isn't a blueprint for survival.

the fire elf · Post by **the fire elf** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:58 pm

it's not an over the counter pill to cure what ails

if you can 'get it', carry it, and hold the space, why toss them in the light of lacking it?

sure... there are republicans... there's money... there's tv and goobs and gobs of this and that

this sprang out it

slit your ankle and run the three legged race?

nah

honor the ancestors

we fell from them

they lift us up

course, i could just be jaded and in denial

wouldn't that be weird

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:08 pm

Our nervous systems are not evolved to live in a world of 6+billion. Not even evolved to live in a city of 50,000. What ever you may think about the techniques that we developed in the past 10,000 years, we don't have any other real horses in the race...

I find myself unsatisfied with this response. I want to get across the absolute silliness of thinking that "anarchy" is actually going to save us, when we aren't even defining the problem properly. I'm not saying "buy into the system;" in lots of obvious ways, the system sucks. I just thing that erasing the board and starting all over is throwing out a lot of hard earned baby, to mix a metaphor.

And now I"m gonna get called risk adverse again.

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:30 am

theCryptofishist wrote: I just think that erasing the board and starting all over is throwing out a lot of hard earned baby

nice turn of phrase: "hard earned baby" (Throwing anything out that is residing in water would be anathema to a fish.)

I think that if the horns went off and they called game soon over that BRC would not be as wonderful a place to be as some imagine.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:44 am

yeah, imagine staying, or being trapped, on the playa for extended time......

once the free booze and "e" ran out, there'd be herds of "fratboyyahhoos" running amok, looking for the "stuff" they're entitled to.......

if we could, we'd have to corral them all and keep em in the stock pens, for bbq..........

most of us can hold the loving, free and happy mindset for a week, some, only the weekend they come out, some, maybe longer.......but, in no time, it'd turn to barter and human interactions.....and all that go with them......

all, of course, IMHO......

zachass · Post by **zachass** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:40 pm

I think you have it right. The giving wouldn't continue. All it would take is a few of the most sincere running out of the things they need to survive, and the others not continuing the gift economy for FEAR of losing something.

Humans are inherently flawed. Fucked but Fact.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:15 pm

Flawed,,,,,,,, yes. but, there is that one little question of survival. The bottled water would run out before the food. Imagine trying to bring in enough water and food to feed 40,000 people. Ignore the trash and just figure the gasoline to ferry in supplies.

If people didn't have gas to leave the playa, there wouldn't be gas to supply them from Gerlach. Ignore the lack of money for many people. The playa is completely inhospitable. It's a fairly short time between your last drink and,,,,, your last breath.

I'm all for the Burning man ethos,,,,, NOT the Burning Man locale.

zachass · Post by **zachass** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:48 pm

Sorry, thought that was implied. I'm speaking more in the hypothetical. As a concept the gift economy is wonderful. I can't wait to experience it for the first time. As the product of died-in-the-wool hippies, I've been exposed to such ideas.

Nice thing to realize though, is that at some point in our distant past we were all swinging from trees. Maybe there really is hope. As it stands now, there is simply too many unenlightened (my words, my opinion) people in the world. I wish it wasn't so, and I'm really not a naysayer (much).

In the mean time until we all find enlightenment, all we can do is try to be the best humans we can, and celebrate the good things. Burning Man appeals to me as such.

magicmarty · Post by **magicmarty** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:04 pm

Hold that thought and philosophy, Zackass. Only for the rest of your life and you will have contributed to us all and to my grandchildren as well.

Your name is so inapropriate. You are anything but a Zackass.

zachass · Post by **zachass** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:07 am

Much obliged. My philosophy is simply a product of my conditioning. An example: we've all run into situations where we've lost something, had something taken from us, etc. It's the times where things are returned or even just left where we lost them that give me hope.

There ARE good souls out there. I think that's what is so appealing to me re: Burning Man. I'm sure there are bad apples there too, but it strikes me as a place where I'm more likely to be surrounded by like-minded people. I think the teeter-totter leans in the opposite direction more often in our 'regular' lives.

Zachass is a nickname that's been with me for quite a while. Those that know me and gave it to me have been subjected to my smarmy ways. My humor is......offhand sometimes?

I'm actually hoping to be given a playa name in '10 from my 'new' friends.

Post by **AntiM** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:10 am

Your playa name will find you, never fear. Just hope it doesn't happen in conjunction with monumental stupidity.

zachass · Post by **zachass** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:41 am

I don't care where it comes from so long as it's real.

A name derived from one of the many stupid things I'm guaranteed to do during my rookie season on the playa would be just fine with me.....so long as serious personal injury and/or offensive/criminal behavior aren't party of the equation, whatever's clever.

Some of the funniest things committed to my memory are incidents where I've been monumentally stupid. Pride bruises heal quickly, and I tend to find it easier to get those guttural laughs at myself than at others.

Inability to laugh at oneself is a red flag.

Post by **AntiM** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:16 am

yeah, but do you really want to be called RebarAss?

zachass · Post by **zachass** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:26 am

doesn't have a nice ring to it, no.

Rheebarb would be okay though.

The necessity of the Burning Man ethos

original thread

Re: The necessity of the Burning Man ethos