Would BM exist without drugs?

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:53 am

Why, exactly, you would want to shake a stick at adrenaline and endorphins is presumably your own issue.

1. Because there are big globs (e) of adrenaline and endorphins on the stick on you want to get them off.

2. Because Pinky double dared you.

3. The trails! The trails!

4. Interpretive dance ain't easy.

5. Better then candy-flipping!

Borris · Post by **Borris** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:28 am

I've had more then a share of drugs in my life (Psychedelics and amphetamines mostly) and allthough i like them i tend to call them recriational drugs (All pot products, MDMA/Ex, Acid, Shrooms) cause that's what they give me, recriation - FUN. yes i have alot of fun at BRC without them, i was sober most of the time, I'm not an Alcohol drinker (Xcept for the Meet&Greet, and i got plastered there within 3 drinks) but at some point i just wanted to have some alterd mind states.

allthough this was my first burn I consider myself a burner for more then 10 years now (even before i knew of BM or of the term burner) and before i started doing any drugs.

as to the festival at large, i belive that those who are burners without drugs would do it as it is, and those who need drugs to become burners AND are capable to recreate that experience sober would have reached it anyway. so YES the event could have existed without drugs, it would probably look a bit different, but yes.

On the other hand, would the Hippie revolution (that eventually led to BM) have existed without drugs???

Oh and US acid sucks, i took 4 hits and remained completly sober. but then I had the Goa boot camp where we woke up and went to sleep with 450 micrograms of acid on our tounges.

PJ · Post by PJ » Mon Sep 08, 2003 11:28 am

Borris wrote:would the Hippie revolution (that eventually led to BM) have existed without drugs?

Much of the music would have been easier to understand, but without oral contraceptives it would have been way different.

Qt · Post by Qt » Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:21 pm

One of the things that I like about Burning Man is that it enables me to see the places that I *can* go within myself ... even if I don't live in that space all the time, it means a lot to be able to take with the knowledge that I *can* get there.

One of the things that I like about drugs is that they enable me to see the places that I *can* go within myself ... even if I don't live in that space all the time, it means a lot to be able to take with the knowledge that I *can* get there.

Although I took a "drug" of some sort of every day that I was out there, I only truly felt high twice. Both of those experiences were amazing and among my favorite moments of the trip. However, there were many other favorite moments that occured because of/in spite of complete sobriety.

I think that Burning Man, like life, is an experience that cannot be enjoyed from one perspective. Rather, it's true beauty is revealed by approaching it from many different angles and then taking the sum of them all. Some of the angles I approach from can only be reached with chemical assistance, while others can only be reached with the assistance of friends new and old.

Burning Man provides the invitation to open your mind. How and why you do so is the reponsibility of the participant. Just like taking a sexual perspective requires a certain amount of responsibility, so does taking a chemical perspective. Those willing and able to take those responsibilities should be allowed, no, encouraged, to do so.

IMHO, of course ...

Atomic Gardener · Post by **Atomic Gardener** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 12:09 am

And kids, gramps has done MASSIVE amounts of candy in his day (s), never IV though, but I can assume that blasting down the street between the man and the temple at a high rate of speed, arms stretched out to the stars and laughing like a maniac (as I did this year on my dad's old french racing bike, making some multigenerational mojo happen...) has GOT to be what a speedball in a glass on glass is like.....hmmm? No drugs for me, thanks, it would be like seeing a movie while tripping (ever done that? BO RING! Somehow the movie becomes three dimensional instead of two,yet at the same time a big old tired one dimensional...or is that four instead of two if you include the sound and time fluxuations?(Which of course makes the simultaneous one dimensional experience even more of a let down....Hmm..well, you know what I mean....). AG

nymphgonebad · Post by **nymphgonebad** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 12:42 am

Atomic Gardener wrote: No drugs for me, thanks, it would be like seeing a movie while tripping (ever done that? BO RING! Somehow the movie becomes three dimensional instead of two,yet at the same time a big old tired one dimensional...or is that four instead of two if you include the sound and time fluxuations?(Which of course makes the simultaneous one dimensional experience even more of a let down....Hmm..well, you know what I mean....). AG

i actually used to love watching movies on acid. not when i'm peaking, y'understand.

first time i saw the movie brazil, i was balls-to-the-wall tripping on ecstasy.
i couldn't even pay attention to the movie because i was busy watching the psychedelic postage stamps glowing on my ceiling.

and right minutes after that, i was busy getting my underwear ripped (yes, literally) off my person.

i miss sex on e.

OregonRed · Post by **OregonRed** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:17 am

During the last three years, I've done acid, shrooms, "e", pot, alcohol, FOXXY, and sobriety on the playa. I have fun stories from almost every experience (FOXXY did not agree with me at all). BRC is a trip unto itself and sometimes more is better. I try to know my mind well enough to know when it's not a good time to do _____. (Pick something from above list)

I have never been so high I couldn't find my camp, or if I was I didn't leave it. I don't even go to the JOTS without my water and I take goggles and a dust mask with me everywhere, so as not to get caught off gaurd. I try to trip responsibly (holy oxymoron Batman) and know my limits.

As to whether or not BM would exist without drugs...probably, but I wonder what it would be like?

nymphgonebad · Post by **nymphgonebad** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:19 am

OregonRed wrote:During the last three years, I've done acid, shrooms, "e", pot, alcohol, FOXXY, and sobriety on the playa. I have fun stories from almost every experience (FOXXY did not agree with me at all). BRC is a trip unto itself and sometimes more is better. I try to know my mind well enough to know when it's not a good time to do _____. (Pick something from above list)

I have never been so high I couldn't find my camp, or if I was I didn't leave it. I don't even go to the JOTS without my water and I take goggles and a dust mask with me everywhere, so as not to get caught off gaurd. I try to trip responsibly (holy oxymoron Batman) and know my limits.

As to whether or not BM would exist without drugs...probably, but I wonder what it would be like?

not quite so bright and shiny, i imagine.

shuranuff · Post by **shuranuff** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 12:49 pm

sleep deprivation was my most common drug of choice on the playa. it's cheap, legal and gives you some pseudohallucinatory effects. plus you get to dance alot and see the sunrise every day. gotta be double good about water and electrolytes when you're runnin your body ragged but i guess that's true with most drugs. and be ready for the serious emotional lability that crops up at the end of the week. you may just burst into tears when someone tells you you're beautiful or asks if you want the green pancakes.

DogBoy · Post by **DogBoy** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:08 pm

I'm pretty sure Larry H. did not start this thing as a drug orgy, so I would say yes, it would exist w/out drugs. That said, there are a LOT of people in BRC that just shouldn't do drugs, period, Burning Man or not. I have had my share of campmates that were no fun to be around because they had completely run out of seratonin.

If you can't enjoy the event without drugs, you should examine why you come. If you can, the right ____(insert substance here) can make BRC that much more enjoyable.

I have a pet peeve about the people that can't handle whatever they are on-The girl trying to address a crowd of 100+ while she is peaking on E, the "man I'm so fuckin high" stoner, drunks (not alcholics-drunks), anyone that cannot maintain the difference between their brain & the drug.

Leave the drug use to the proffesionals. As I said to a friend that eats mushrooms once every 2 years (and TOTALLY turns into giggleman), "Kurt, you have got to stop taking my drugs!"

antron · Post by **antron** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:12 pm

without legal drugs, i'd probably sneeze a lot more
without illegal drugs, blm would be far less entertaining

Angry Butterfly · Post by **Angry Butterfly** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:36 pm

Society in general wouldn't exist without drugs.
I'm kind of anti drug myself after having speed AKA ritalin shoved down my throat for many of my formative years, "We are just trying to help you" BULLSH*T!!!!!!!!!!!

Sugar=Drug
Fat=Drug
Ritalin= Meth
Alcohol= Drug
Caffene=Drug

So would burningman exist without drugs? If your talking about shrooms and e specificly, sure, all drugs, no.

nymphgonebad · Post by **nymphgonebad** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:30 pm

Angry Butterfly wrote:Society in general wouldn't exist without drugs.
I'm kind of anti drug myself after having speed AKA ritalin shoved down my throat for many of my formative years, "We are just trying to help you" BULLSH*T!!!!!!!!!!!

Sugar=Drug
Fat=Drug
Ritalin= Meth
Alcohol= Drug
Caffene=Drug

So would burningman exist without drugs? If your talking about shrooms and e specificly, sure, all drugs, no.

sounds like we we're "under the care" of the same physicain.

babblingfreak · Post by **babblingfreak** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:20 am

I have done BM with and without drugs. I'd say that it was incredible either way. I realize that I would rather be sober most of the time. I have some friends that do lots of drugs in mundania and BM is an excuse for them to do even more.
I think BM forces you to face yourself, and drugs can make you escape from that and the beauty of being out there sober or sober most of the time is that you are allowed to see what BM wants to teach you.

Just a thought.

gabegirl · Post by **gabegirl** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:00 am

This was my first Burn and I actually partied, which is something I rarely ever do in "default". Took some E one night and it definitely enhanced an incredibly beautiful evening that bled into the softest morning. Took it again the following night of the burn, after regretfully napping most of the day away, and it hit me so hard, I could not walk straight or communicate properly. I went straight back to camp and tried to sleep it off while assuring myself I would, in all probability, feel normal again. It sucked. I was still weak-kneed the following day and kicking myself for a wasted night. I may still indulge, but will take more care next year rather than keeping up with my campmates. BM is so much more than just a trip.

pixie mcGiver · Post by **pixie mcGiver** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 7:50 am

Burning Man is the drug . Do whatever you choose, but accept responsability for your own self. Sober or Stupid.

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 8:25 am

In the late 70s and early 80s I drank a lot of liquid electricity, and then stopped. I went to BM for the first time last year and was blown away by all the new initials and molocules out there. Wow. Someone's been cooking up a storm! And all that with a "war" on no less...

Estatic states are part of the human condition, I think we need them from time to ttime to maintian our tenuous hold on sanity. There are a variety of ways we can reach estatic states, drugs are just one of them, and with the right intent a valid and useful tool.

Drugs are for people who can't handle reality.
Reality is for people who can't handle drugs.

If you are rolling with your sweetie and you fall into a Skye chair, best not have any pressing plans for a while...

sugarlarry · Post by **sugarlarry** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:43 am

I love taking drugs at Burning Man, but this was the first year where I realized that I could probably be quite happy not taking any. Still, blasting across the desert with a head full of chemicals towards what looks like a giant jellyfish is pretty fun.

My biggest wish is that all the gawdamned hippies who sold me drugs at a huge profit would perhaps double, or triple the dosage. Jeez... bad enough that I violate the "no-commerce" value, but to get ripped off at the same time really blows.

Perhaps to avoid this in the future there could be a new theme camp that allows you to adopt a Canadian Burner, and ensure that they are constantly high. I'm willing to be the first kid to go up for adoption.

Kinetic · Post by **Kinetic** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:49 am

I'm wondering how many LEO's read this thread and pulled out their pocket notebooks and PDA's making notes for next year....just a thought.

And why buy stuff when you can have it gifted to you? If you gift things or are just nice to people and help them out, you would be surprised how well you get taken care of with anything and everything....

sugarlarry · Post by **sugarlarry** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 12:25 pm

Drug gifts are rare for guys. In five years of coming to BM with piles of friends who do tons of groovy stuff, there have been three incidents of drug gifts. Two were e, one a pot cookie. Not great odds, but I admire your sense of hope! Still... anyone wanna adopt some Canadians in the future?

Kinetic · Post by **Kinetic** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 12:59 pm

Hope? Sheesh every year if I wanted it I could find it or had it offered.

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 1:15 pm

And why buy stuff when you can have it gifted to you?

Self-sufficiency? To gift others?

ravenluv · Post by **ravenluv** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 1:42 pm

alternative questions might be....

how unique would bm be if certain drugs weren't illegal?

or

how much LEO would still exist without drugs?

the underlying fear of legalizing drugs is that millions will instantly be transformed into unproductive hedonists. part of what makes bm so amazing is that it is so unique. the reason it is so unique is because the powers that be, which employ lots of LEO, have been so very good at making sure stuff like that doesn't start sprouting up everywhere. at the very least, they keep the whole thing as contained as they possibly can while still adhering, for the most part, to the laws.

in the course of bm's history, no more than 145,000 people could ever have attended. yet, i have heard attendees marvel that we have been 'given' THAT much freedom. if that doesn't speak of the extensive control the LEO-employing forces have, then i don't know what does.

we call it radical self-expression only because self-expression is so thoroughly controlled in the world at large. this has nothing to do with the evilness of corporate powers and the like. tribes, villages, towns and the like have a long history of enforcing, through various means, conformity to local mores, morals and ethics. the vastly organized entities that now run the bigger show are comprised of people who came from generations of souls who were 'taught' that conformity is the way to go, even though limited self-expression may have been hailed as a mark of greatness.

would bm exist if drugs weren't illegal and if self-expression wasn't so highly controlled? would we really need to go to such lengths to be in such a permissive environment if it were far easier to find in our own towns?

in other words, would bm exist without the pervasive success of the LEO?

shuranuff · Post by **shuranuff** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 5:10 pm

henh?? my brain will just, not, wrap, around all those words right now.

Kinetic · Post by **Kinetic** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 5:52 pm

The focus on LEO's being the controlling factor is, imho a bit of an overstatement. LEO's only play a small part , corporate Amerika and their quest for the allmighty dollar and the religious zealots play a role, if not a much larger one that the LEO's. Most LEO's do what they are told to do, the levers of power are run by many other groups. Only a few LEO's have real power, Johnny Asscroft would be an example of that.

LostBlueMan · Post by **LostBlueMan** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:11 am

I wonder if there has ever been a good poll on the number of sober Burners? For this being my virgin year and have been straight edge for my entire life (up until recently), I had an excelent time. Any informal guess on sober Burners? 50% or more?

Angry Butterfly · Post by **Angry Butterfly** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:59 pm

I was sober with the exeption of alcohol, most of the week, and even when I drank I sobered up pretty fast because I was drinking so much H2O and what not, People kept asking me if I was rolling, But that happens in real life a lot too. But I have to admit, I am REALLY Jealous of you kids who were born a little earlier than me, or started a little earlier than me and got in on LSD when it was around, I probably wouldnt do it every weekend, but I LOVE acid, I am thinking about going to grad school just to learn how to make it. Seriously all you chemists making E, just stop now, make some liquid, PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, I'm not scared of the DEA reading this, BECAUSE I DON"T HAVE ANY DRUGS! You took away all the acid, and it is the only drug I want! Pot stinks, e is boring and costs too much, shrooms are kinda fun, but everything pales next to acid...MMMMMMMMMMMMMM LSD!
I might as well be a straight edge, just because I can't get any damn acid.

Raheer · Post by **Raheer** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 2:13 am

Raheer has never, and with the kind of legal drugs he's on will never, use illegal drugs. That said, however, Raheer also thinks ninety-five percent of the drugs that are illegal in the United States are illegal for one of two reasons. One, they produce a freedom from the chains on our collective thoughts placed there by the corporations and the United States Government, [tm] (A wholly owned subsidiary of McDonald's Corporation); and two, those which don't fall into the first category threaten the profits of the alcohol conglomerates by reducing one's inhibitions (XTC, anyone?!?) without their costs going into the pockets of the beer/liquor corporations....

Which leads to Raheer's theory of why American beer is legally forced to be so much weaker than beer anywhere else in the world, but that's another thread....

Raheer

Kinetic · Post by **Kinetic** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 8:53 am

Raheer wrote:One, they produce a freedom from the chains on our collective thoughts placed there by the corporations and the United States Government, [tm] (A wholly owned subsidiary of McDonald's Corporation);

I'm sorry but Jim Cantelupo and the McDonalds team are having financial trouble, therefore they are spinning off various side projects like Donatos Pizza and Chipotle Mexican Grille. The US Govt subsidiary has been sold to Wal-Mart who promises to come in and implement aggressive cost control measures. They will finally get a handle on the $600 toilet seat problems at the Pentagon and the $25,000 shelter house problem on the Appalachian Trail, and address the war on terror by making Bin Laden's life hell through the aggressive expansion of Wal Marts and Sams Club stores all over Asia and the middle east. They will bring western style shopping to the masses and Bin Laden can't compete with the world's largest corporation. Resistance is futile, he's going to be crushed by shopping carts and cheap food with only 8% markups. He has no chance.

Tiara · Post by **Tiara** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 9:47 am

OregonRed wrote: I try to trip responsibly (holy oxymoron Batman) and know my limits.
color]

If only everyone could be a "moron" like that!

Would BM exist without drugs?

Biggest rush=playa biking at night

Re: Biggest rush=playa biking at night

Of course!

yes

droogs

Look what the LEO drug in....