Thank you for Not "Gifting" Me

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:03 pm

The first year I attended the gifting stuff caused me a lot of unnecessary stress. Since that year my gifting approach has changed. I take a few hand made things to give out to special people I meet. I take mixer stuff for the bars...I don't expect a drink back but if the bar is entertaining others and looks interesting and I am treated nicely when I go in I'll gift them Coke, mixer stuff...things that the bars seem to run out of towards the end of the week. And then I volunteer...by giving of myself I help the common good and keep BRC running. You don't have to have material things to give.

I've been gifted many things at BM but my most cherished gift is something Das Bus made for me. It's a necklace that has two small vials attached...one filled with ashes from the man after he burned, the other filled with playa dust. It's not so much the gift as it is the circumstances and the person giving it that counts for me.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:24 pm

NOT just gifting because that's "how you're supposed to participate in burning man".

Unfortunately, that's what I've been seeing more of the past few years. That and the standing around with a hint of expectation of automatic reciprocity. I've always believed that giving something with an expectation of return has a shadowy element attached to it.

The only thing I've ever set out to pass out were a few dozen crinoid stem necklaces http://www.kgs.ku.edu/Extension/fossils/crinoid.html. The went over pretty well after I told them the story of the fossil. Didn't see anyone put it in my fancy Giftapult(TM).

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:15 pm

Badger wrote:[ I've always believed that giving something with an expectation of return has a shadowy element attached to it.

Well that would be "barter" and you'd be soundly reviled for being a greedy pigfucker.

Kind of.

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:20 pm

(goat) fucker

hunter S · Post by **hunter S** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:42 pm

I think you have to concider the amount of virgins each year, My first year I was somewhat lost on the hole gifting thing. I had to live in BRC to unerstand. Now I make carvings and small things all year as I'm thinking about the next burn, this I think comes from exsperience. If we add 10K virgins a year I would exspect 9K or so to be still figuring out gifting. this kind of thred probably helps!

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:50 pm

Of course, they are learning this from somewhere. I'm not sure how much they're getting it from people who have been before who are still giving thoughtless trinkets, or just from the BuMP's material that they publish, but they can't be making it up in a vacuum.

I started going in 03, at which point my understanding was that yes, you should have some thing to give out, but that it really shoud be handmade. I've largely given up the 'thing' part of it. What do other people remember wrt their early ideas about giving stuff out?

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:51 pm

I think my sophomore year was the year of the Dice. So, barter bars were a hot topic. I remember thinking 'man, I better come up with some cool shit if I want to get in on the action'. I didn't bring shit to give away my first year but I had plenty of stuff to share as I was over prepared. My first 'gifting' experience was a camp mate hooking me up with false eyelashes for my first big night out. I was a bit taken aback that she just out of the blue offered them up. 'Hey Stuart, do you want some false eyelashes?' 'Shit Yeah! Hook a brother up!' I have been in love with Burning Man ever since.

I really like that those things happen. I really like that people, like DP, work hard at making stuff. What I don't dig is the cult-speak and resultant off the shelf behavior.

ThePikey · Post by **ThePikey** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:52 pm

Off the shelf doesn't bother me so much, as long as whatever it is is useful. Someone was handing out little personal sanitation kits with a couple wet wipes, q-tips, and the like. Our camp hands out beer cozies and lighters. I'm also thinking of bringing some small tins or containers for people to carry around so they have someplace to put cigarette butts instead of throwing them away and generating MOOP.

That's WAY better than some little store-bought trinket.

philosopher · Post by **philosopher** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:18 am

Kinetic IV wrote:I've been gifted many things at BM but my most cherished gift is something Das Bus made for me. It's a necklace that has two small vials attached...one filled with ashes from the man after he burned, the other filled with playa dust. It's not so much the gift as it is the circumstances and the person giving it that counts for me.

You bring me back to one of my favorite Burning Man moments--randomly encountering Das Bus and Gordy (neither of whom I knew at the time) and giving them each one of my iridescent philosopher's stones accompanied by--what do you expect from a guy who calls himself "philosopher"?--a conversation about consciousness, thus beginning a continuing exchange of gifts and energies.

Seems that the variety of understandings of the "gift economy" concept leads to a variety of gift experiences. I've received some wonderful gifts, but I can't pass up the opportunity to quote Stuart's precious words about how understanding works in this connection at Burning Man:

Stuart wrote:I think the org does not intend 'gift economy' to get boiled down to 'give out candy' but the hyper mystic language that they use has been proven time and again to be a poor choice for communicating basic ideal. My favorite example of this was the 'floating world' theme of a few years back. Larry Harvey gave us the usual essay about the theme, rich with Cambellian and Jungian references. What did the masses digest this quite squishy and complicated ideal into? "Aaarrrrrrrr! Pirates!" So it goes with 'the gift economy'.

But I still like Larry Harvey's essays a whole lot. And tangentially, there might be a few folks out there who would have appreciated my (abandoned) art concept for the Floating World theme, parking an unadorned black Toyota Cressida out on the playa.

Oh yeah, one last thing. To the person who surreptitiously "gifted" me a couple of years ago by misting me with a dose of some weird drug cocktail that almost racked up another fatality statistic: You've answered the question of what gift is worse than Skittles covered in playa dust. If anyone was asking.

mullethunter · Post by **mullethunter** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:30 am

have to put in my vote for not gifting "objects". reminds me of my birthday a couple of years ago, where i got the best present EVER, whereupon a good friend of mine shaved my name into his chest hair. ahhh....good times, good times. it really showed that he loved me and it's something i'll never forget. obviously that won't really work on the playa though.

anyhoo, i was thinking of bringing my astrology book and doing astrological charts for people, and reading their tarot (though i'll have to tell them that i'm not really a professional at those things)
i am pretty good at sewing, so maybe i'll bring my mini sewing kit, and do some quick fixes for people in need.

i had kind of planned to figure out how to gift little baggies of candy, but put them in bags that say "silica gel do NOT eat!" you know like the ones they put in shoes and such to stop the moisture. don't know about other people, but whenever i see those things i really want to eat them. thought it would be kind of a funny thing, but this thread is making me rethink it.

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:14 am

mullethunter wrote: so maybe i'll bring my mini sewing kit, and do some quick fixes for people in need.

I wish you'd been around when I ripped my wedding dress.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:39 am

blyslv wrote:
mullethunter wrote: so maybe i'll bring my mini sewing kit, and do some quick fixes for people in need.

I wish you'd been around when I ripped my wedding dress.

~
My daughters wedding dress "A retro 1920's with open back W/short train" was sewen on. It was loaned from a movie set shop. So to make it fit right. The outfitter dressed the whole party. A friend in from Japan did her waist long "red" hair up in 20's style.
.
ps can you tell I like my kid?

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:12 am

I thought you had 6. You sound like a good father. I got this dress from a goodwill store in Alamosa CO for 5 dollars. It makes me feel like a princess when I wear it!

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:21 am

blyslv wrote:I thought you had 6. You sound like a good father. I got this dress from a goodwill store in Alamosa CO for 5 dollars. It makes me feel like a princess when I wear it!

~
Good on you for the Goodwill buy. Thats where I get my jammies for my clown outfits. Have 6 kids, two are girl. 4 ours and two from the baby store. and I'm the one spoiled rotton.

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:31 am

two from the baby store

Hey, that's where my folks got me!

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:51 am

Zulegoona wrote:IBut I'm a collector, I've just recently gotten myself to stop picking up stray pieces of metal I find in the street, and I've hauled art materials bones and stones with me on every move for the past 20 years I love stuff, most of it isn't the sort of thing others find value in but I cherish most of the odd bits of shell and feathers and pieces of wood, They all contain spirits of there own,

swoon

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:52 am

Iago wrote:But I bought this bag of 250 plastic army soldier guys in '98 and I still got about 127 left over to give away. I mean I don't want them to just collect dust at home in the basement. Fuck, this whole thing is so hard to figure out anymore... Give, don't give? what's a burner to do??? geeeze, just so many to rules to follow anymore to be free.. this is giving me a mental enema...?

Ohhh, ooooh Plastic soilder guy NECKLACES!!!

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:48 pm

Plastic soldier guys are for HELMETS, silly! Somebody has to fight the dinosaurs!!

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:43 pm

necklaces v. helmets. FASION WAR 2005!!!! The Playa EXPLODES!!!!!!

EricMagic · Post by **EricMagic** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:42 pm

Anyone not wishing to have gifts, please send the givers to me and let me have the stuff. I love to give really cool stuff, and I love to collect stuff almost like a pack rat. Some really good stuff is to be found on the Playa like the following: Hand made quality necklaces, laser beam staffs, masks, coolie pops, wash naps, nice lotion, water, kisses, hugs, tape, incense, printed pics, poems. Time to live very high in the land of luxury, land of spontaneity, and circumstances of extreme beauty and hardship all at the same time, The PLAYA. 8)

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:53 am

I would like to reiterate that one man's trash is another's treasure.
That stuff is pure gold to certain people. Elementary school teachers don't get a budget for art supplies these days. Any community center and many senoir centers would love to be able to offer these materials for assemblage.
SCRAP a San Francisco based non-profit has wet dreams about this sort of stuff.

Donations of re-usable materials such as textiles, paper, jewelry findings, wood, buttons and plastics are collected from businesses, institutions and individuals and distributed to art and educational groups.
<snip>
The following items are in demand:

* Leather
* Plastic and Mylar
* Banners and flags
* Rubber scraps
* Wood and trim
* Plexiglass
* Textiles (fabric, yarn, millends, over runs, pattern samples)
* Paper (mural paper, misprints and millends)
* Art supplies (felt pens, non-toxic paints, art brushes, matte board, poster board, foam core, drafting tables)
* Flooring (tile, carpet)
* Feathers
* Wire
* Candles and wax
* Buttons
* Beads and decorative parts.
* Soft things
* Shiny things

The Oakland Equvilent
There's one in Contra Costa County called "Trashtopia" as well.
So what if you don't have one locally?Here's some advice for starting one
Okay, not everyone's cup of tea. But I bet in someone in your circle of friends knows an Elementary School Teacher, a Rec Center Worker, or the like. Or just spend a half hour with a phone book and you can find someone eager to take this off your hands. Or Google "reuse" or any phrase you find on those sites and find one closer to you.
I might be wiling to take some off your hands as well and pass them on. But I'm unsure of the room that we'll have in the truck, so I make no promises.
However, I think a booth at any decompression event taking such articles and maybe offering the opportunity to make a picture frame decorated with beads for you favorite playa photo would be a big hit.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:42 am

theCryptofishist wrote:necklaces v. helmets. FASION WAR 2005!!!! The Playa EXPLODES!!!!!!

You'll pay for a seat....BUT YOU'LL ONLY.....NEED....THE.....EDDDGGGGEEEE!!!!!! SATURDAY!! SATURDAY!! (Sunday! Monday! Tuesday.......)

I guess the world is big enough for BOTH. It'll be good to have Backup Necklace Soldiers, in case the Helmet Soldiers get eaten.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:23 pm

one of my art pieces this year is to take an empty, crushed Tecate can and divine the future based on the crinkles and flatness achieved.

If previous burns are any indication I should have about 50 of these to give away. Que up while supplies last.

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:56 am

Two of the treasured items in our kitchen are the plastic shot glasses a bartender gave us last year on the playa. My wife grins whenever she hauls them out and pours shots. Somebody else gave us a sticker. Oh...yeah...I remember now, it was the Greeters.

The Zaphod Project intends to gift people who visit the camp, participate in the interactive exhibit and chat up our servants. We're making hand-painted hand towels.

You can use 'em as hand towels, scarves, beer-zambonis, spuz rags, we don't care. If you don't want one, Just Say No. It's up to you to keep track of your towel. Dissenters are cordially offered a nice cold cup of shut the fuck up. :P

-gatt
ZaphodBurns!
http://www.zaphodburns2005.org

ahchim-namdongsang · Post by **ahchim-namdongsang** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:22 pm

Ok, so here I am, alone in my apartment on a Saturday night when I could have been out partying my ass off. Instead I am dutifully studying up on how to behave for my first visit to BRC this summer. I went to Burningflipside in May and was completely taken by it all. Really taken.

So... now I want to have some things to give. At Burningflipside, I was camped with a group doing massages. I gave several and never asked for one in return. Giving an act of kindness seems like the best thing, because I'm not real big on trinkets. But the few trinkets I got were kinda cool and I have them proudly still on a shelf above my dresser.

If I make anything, it would be small leather medallions with a BM kinda logo thingy and small chain, like a key fob. I might even bring my leather kit and let people make their own. Won't be camping with the massage folks again, but I'm crafty in my acts of kindness and I still will
try to give "things" to those who deserve.

If you're one of the ones who won't appreciate a handmade trinket, just tell me. I'll save it for someone else. I plan on meeting lots of people - that's what I liked best about flipside.

Janka · Post by **Janka** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:36 am

I agree with all the people who posted that there is a difference between "giving out stuff" and "giving a gift". Handing out trinkets just because you feel you have to give something is (should not) be the point of gift economy. I personally detest the idea that one should prepare gifts "for the masses" - in fact, I see that as a contradiction in terms. Gifts are a personal thing. They should come from you, and go to a specific person.

That is not to say that "a trinket" cannot be a gift. Last year, as newbies, we had not realized how precious lights on us would be when walking the dark playa. We would have been lost (well, more like driven over by cars and bikes) without the nice people who gave to us from their blinky things and glow sticks. Candy bracelets can be tacky, but when a neighbour produced them - not in hundreds, but as a dozen or so - to mark us as members our imprompty "camp candyland", that was very fitting and fun (ok, I guess you should have been there). My treasure now is a laminated bookmark with a photo and poem by a fellow burner with whom I exchanged some words about poetry.

It is not what is given, it is how. "Gifting" should not be the purporse as of itself. It should be the spirit in which we exchange things, material and immaterial, when and if there is a need (emotional or practical) to do so.

The newest official printed propaganda that just found its way here, in the "ten principles" section, did not, in my opinion, make a very good job with this difference, but that's another story completely.

affinity · Post by **affinity** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:24 am

I am part of an interactive camp, this year Angoraphobia, and I put images of the "man" in some form on t-shirts that people bring with them, usually 600-800 during the week. So I get a lot of gifts....and some of them have been amazing..

I have said yes to all gifts, no to all gifts, discriminated between those that I thought someone in my camp might actually want..and I still have trouble winning. Many people are offended when I say no...So I usually say yes and then just give away (if viable) what I don't want or throw it away, but that does not reflect how I live my life.

I want people to walk away from my camp having had a fun Burning Man experience, they get to take home a shirt someone actually screenprinted for THEM right in front of them, maybe a handmade enamel pendant that my campmate makes and hang with the bunnies, but when I say no to their gift it often upsets them and that is upsetting to me.

I know there are no answers because I have tried many iterations of yes and no in the 6 years and many other events I have been doing this. just expressing my frustration with the subject.

I also understand that my population is very specific, they have to have read the What, Where, When..they have to bring or have a t-shirt and get to my camp with it within a fairly narrow window of time and then wait in line..quite an accomplishment on the everdistracting Playa...

My husband lived in a commune for many years and they had a HUGE gifting culture..everyone kept a wish list that had some consumables, etc. so he really is not very enthused when I say no to someone, he gets that they are offering whatever they are offering the best way they know how...and I want to BE compassion but how to be sustainable without being adamant?

so. I do not know what I will do this year about taking gifts but feel free to come by and get the Man silkscreened on your t-shirt and not give me a gift. Angoraphobia 11am - 12:30 Wed - Sat.

Thanks for letting me express myself.[/img]

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:33 am

AFfinity--quite seriously considering collecting for the sf bay reuse places... If I come by this year, I'll ask if there's anytthing you want to donate.

Nightterror · Post by **Nightterror** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:38 am

affinity -

Thanks for the post and for your gift. Would you be comfortable providing a little detail into the types of gifts that you value the most. I think I would be a bit hurt if someone refused my gift although I am terrible at receiving. To me, the most valuable gift is a persons time. That includes handmade gifts and gifts such as yours.

affinity · Post by **affinity** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:26 am

Sure I will tell you what I like, how nice of you to ask...but Iam sure it varies.

I like things that I can put in my scrapbook WITH THE MAN ON THEM, I like a cold drink of most any kind, stickers made for the year of the event since I can put them in my scrapbook (two please one for my campmate who collects them). lighters (someone always needs one), some special gifts I have gotten were big, a t-shirt with the man on it, hand blown shot glass with the man in it, armadillos can opener shaped like the head of the man (a favorite), sterling necklace man,wrapped wet wipe (who doesn't need one of those (I will manage the moop thanks) or a wet wipe I can take out of the container myself, most anything made for the event..buttons with the man, etc. I usually can use a glow stick if it attaches to me in some way, a little light (kind of expensive but I still use it on my keychain, a non Man favorite last year a bracelet that had "soar" on it, remade it into a fancier bracelet for non-playa wear, a silkscreened print cartoonis made for the event

Please, NO plastic whistles, plastic necklaces, fruit roll, canned goods, cheap beer (no one in my camp will drink it), big food apples on friday etc., rocks, shells, pretty much anything from oriental trading.

BUT this is all personal to me, I am sure someone else would give you a differnet list. I will watch this thread and answer your questions.

Thank you for Not "Gifting" Me

thank you for not gifting me

Re: thank you for not gifting me

Re: thank you for not gifting me

Give to You! Please Gift Me! & Enjoy!

Saying No