Party like it's Dec.21, 2012

[gyre]

The reports of guns in the meetings seems to be a paranoid non-story, a good example of the worst kind of journalism.
I have heard of one person legally carrying a gun outside some events.
He appears to be trying to make a point about the supposed gun bans, a result of all the paranoid rumors being spread.
It is so stupid, I suspect him of being an agent provocateur.
Unwise at best, considering the treasury department's sensitivity.

But it does show that the deliberate abuse of power during the bush administration in such areas has, at least, lessened.
They were caught putting protesters on terrorist watch lists to keep them away, and we're all aware of the effective banning of peaceful protests at all presidential events, in the name of "security".


As for the christian taliban's anti-birth control terrorism, it is difficult to know all the deaths caused.
Many documentaries have been made in this area.
The consequence of restricted pre-natal care as a result of successful terrorism campaigns carries the highest fatality rate.
And infanticide is known to be going up at an extreme rate in areas deprived of "abortion clinics", as pre-natal care often disappears with them.
Forensic anthropologists now have some educated guesses about the high rate in the "good old days".

High insurance rates and the lack of regulation have caused many of the deaths, also documented widely, but the terrorism has resulted in most doctors avoiding the entire medical area.

My city has the worst record of pre-natal care in the country, but the rural poor hundreds of miles from cities have it far worse.
Our rate of care and consequence is on par with some destitute third world nations.
We are now part of a new government grant to educate people, but it is no substitute for available care.

The consequences, risks and deaths are shared to some degree by everyone in every city.

And look to south america for how bad it could get here.
The catholic church openly interferes in medical care for people injured during an abortion.
They have gloried in the resulting bloodshed, in some places.
There are laws in place restricting medical care, as a result of lobbying.

In the usa, hospitals are allowed to restrict medical care, but not required to do so.
Then pressure does the rest.
Look to south america to see a possible future.


I believe no church or corporation should have any voice in a democracy, by definition.
Only individuals should have any voice at all.
We have accepted a very unnatural thing here with corporate lobbying.
No difference with some churches.


I think the anti-democracy actions taken during the last administration have done more damage to this country than the external terrorists have managed so far.
And I think this movement has the potential for far worse damage.
History is full of examples.


The jihadists are certainly willing to do damage.
But such movements have been defeated before.
They can be beaten, in time.
They are not historically unique.

We can only be defeated by ourselves.

[Elderberry]

The reports of guns in the meetings seems to be a paranoid non-story, a good example of the worst kind of journalism.
I have heard of one person legally carrying a gun outside some events.
He appears to be trying to make a point about the supposed gun bans, a result of all the paranoid rumors being spread.
It is so stupid, I suspect him of being an agent provocateur.
Unwise at best, considering the treasury department's sensitivity.

But it does show that the deliberate abuse of power during the bush administration in such areas has, at least, lessened.
They were caught putting protesters on terrorist watch lists to keep them away, and we're all aware of the effective banning of peaceful protests at all presidential events, in the name of "security".


As for the christian taliban's anti-birth control terrorism, it is difficult to know all the deaths caused.
Many documentaries have been made in this area.
The consequence of restricted pre-natal care as a result of successful terrorism campaigns carries the highest fatality rate.
And infanticide is known to be going up at an extreme rate in areas deprived of "abortion clinics", as pre-natal care often disappears with them.
Forensic anthropologists now have some educated guesses about the high rate in the "good old days".

High insurance rates and the lack of regulation have caused many of the deaths, also documented widely, but the terrorism has resulted in most doctors avoiding the entire medical area.

My city has the worst record of pre-natal care in the country, but the rural poor hundreds of miles from cities have it far worse.
Our rate of care and consequence is on par with some destitute third world nations.
We are now part of a new government grant to educate people, but it is no substitute for available care.

The consequences, risks and deaths are shared to some degree by everyone in every city.

And look to south america for how bad it could get here.
The catholic church openly interferes in medical care for people injured during an abortion.
They have gloried in the resulting bloodshed, in some places.
There are laws in place restricting medical care, as a result of lobbying.

In the usa, hospitals are allowed to restrict medical care, but not required to do so.
Then pressure does the rest.
Look to south america to see a possible future.


I believe no church or corporation should have any voice in a democracy, by definition.
Only individuals should have any voice at all.
We have accepted a very unnatural thing here with corporate lobbying.
No difference with some churches.


I think the anti-democracy actions taken during the last administration have done more damage to this country than the external terrorists have managed so far.
And I think this movement has the potential for far worse damage.
History is full of examples.


The jihadists are certainly willing to do damage.
But such movements have been defeated before.
They can be beaten, in time.
They are not historically unique.

We can only be defeated by ourselves.

Who wrote this? It mirrors many of my thoughts exactly--especially this thought:

I believe no church or corporation should have any voice in a democracy, by definition.
Only individuals should have any voice at all.
We have accepted a very unnatural thing here with corporate lobbying.
No difference with some churches.

JK

[gyre]

I did.
Probably nothing new there though.

[Elderberry]

interesting:

not knowing any islamic fundamentalists, so, you don't feel any threat? or, not as much as the anti-abortion ones?
I'd agree, that, fringes of ALL groups, cause the problems.
here in CA, we have wanton, wholesale murder commited on a regular basis by all sorts of ethnic gangs..........And, I've seen how pro-lifers will attack and even kill abortion docs, etc.
I would submit (and certainly not excuse such a horrific act), though, that far fewer people have been hurt/killed by pro-lifers than ethnic gangs.

This is why I don't understand your statement aimed specifically at the groups you mention. But, then again, I may not have enough info.

I make, perhaps a bold jump, but, it seems most of the larger terrorist actions in the world, (excluding wars waged by nations), have been perpetrated my islamic fundamentalists.......They seem to have the most skill at larger scale injury producing suicide bombings, gas attacks, (arguably) plane attacks, hijackings, etc............and, seem the most willing to spill the blood of innocents.
Perhaps my information sources are wrong, but, in my view, and opinion, the islamic fringe is most likely to commit/ release some atrocity that will do huge damage and cause societal strife.......

but, certainly, I am open to elucidation and enlightenment.............

In my opinion, here is the difference and why the christian fundamentalists are more of a percieved threat than the islamic fundamentalists.

Most of the islamic fundamentalists seem to come from countries that are right out of the old testament--both economically and educationally.

Most of the christian fundamentalists seem to come from right here in our own back yard--an educated and enlightened culture.

To me, that makes the christian fundies much more agregious and threatening. Seems like the islamic fundies have room to evolve to the 21st century whereas the christian fundies seem to be longing for and devolving back to the old testament to join the islamic fundies.

On second thought, they are both pretty much the same.

JK

[ygmir]

interesting:

not knowing any islamic fundamentalists, so, you don't feel any threat? or, not as much as the anti-abortion ones?
I'd agree, that, fringes of ALL groups, cause the problems.
here in CA, we have wanton, wholesale murder commited on a regular basis by all sorts of ethnic gangs..........And, I've seen how pro-lifers will attack and even kill abortion docs, etc.
I would submit (and certainly not excuse such a horrific act), though, that far fewer people have been hurt/killed by pro-lifers than ethnic gangs.

This is why I don't understand your statement aimed specifically at the groups you mention. But, then again, I may not have enough info.

I make, perhaps a bold jump, but, it seems most of the larger terrorist actions in the world, (excluding wars waged by nations), have been perpetrated my islamic fundamentalists.......They seem to have the most skill at larger scale injury producing suicide bombings, gas attacks, (arguably) plane attacks, hijackings, etc............and, seem the most willing to spill the blood of innocents.
Perhaps my information sources are wrong, but, in my view, and opinion, the islamic fringe is most likely to commit/ release some atrocity that will do huge damage and cause societal strife.......

but, certainly, I am open to elucidation and enlightenment.............

In my opinion, here is the difference and why the christian fundamentalists are more of a percieved threat than the islamic fundamentalists.

Most of the islamic fundamentalists seem to come from countries that are right out of the old testament--both economically and educationally.

Most of the christian fundamentalists seem to come from right here in our own back yard--an educated and enlightened culture.

To me, that makes the christian fundies much more agregious and threatening. Seems like the islamic fundies have room to evolve to the 21st century whereas the christian fundies seem to be longing for and devolving back to the old testament to join the islamic fundies.

On second thought, they are both pretty much the same.

JK

*noting the perp in the most recent mass murder at Ft. Hood*

[tubahurl]

RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!!!!!!!!!

NASA's Hubble telescope has found undeniable evidence of our impending DOOM! It's a comet named Cometus Mayanitus. It's got planet earth in it's cross hairs!

[oneeyeddick]

I can't find anything about it on the internet.

Unbelievable.