Evolution of Music Scene

[EspressoDude]

I guess it's just hard for me to believe that a lot of sub-par wannabe DJs actually are allowed to dominate the playa with bad mixing of boring tracks.

The problem is that too many of them choose to do so. Loudly. When no one is around. When they're not even around. At all hours. Good times.

That's what wire cutters are for, or unplugging power cables...not that I am guilty of such actions.

[neon tetra]

I think the majority of people who get excited this far in advance of their first time become lifers. Of course I just made up that statistic, but if it works for Fox why can't it work for us?

You media guys are all the same!

[Eric]

I guess it's just hard for me to believe that a lot of sub-par wannabe DJs actually are allowed to dominate the playa with bad mixing of boring tracks.

The problem is that too many of them choose to do so. Loudly. When no one is around. When they're not even around. At all hours. Good times.

That's what wire cutters are for, or unplugging power cables...not that I am guilty of such actions.

I know you've never done it Espresso, and I certainly haven't ever suggested anyone else do it, but even if people cut some of the offending camps, there are still dozens, if not hundreds, more.

It would be nice if there was a dedicated "you're an asshole and we're going to deal with you" underground that just went around "fixing" these systems, like the A-Team.

Problem is, someone else might think my camps music is the one that sucks. Or your camps music.......

[JStep]

Problem is, someone else might think my camps music is the one that sucks. Or your camps music.......

That would be valid if all things were equal, but it sort of argues against your statement that there's a reason why DJs are so derided on ePlaya. Either there's a sort of objective decision about what is wanted as far as musical entertainment or there isn't, right?

Maybe not, I don't know. Just trying to make sense of what I see/read on here.

[EspressoDude]

Fucking up someone elses ART, even if it sounds bad, or loud, or even just looks awful is not a good thing to do, not recommended, etc.

What if everyone played the same music, or built the same static/interactive art, or mutant vehicles?

What if Larry.org mandated Lawrence Welk ? ?

Likely a very boring event.

[JStep]

Fucking up someone elses ART, even if it sounds bad, or loud, or even just looks awful is not a good thing to do, not recommended, etc.

What if everyone played the same music, or built the same static/interactive art, or mutant vehicles?

What if Larry.org mandated Lawrence Welk ? ?

Likely a very boring event.

I agree!

I'm obviously not an expert, just trying to make sense of things as I see them posted.

Eric probably said it best in his post relating that everyone's experience isn't necessarily going to reflect your own. Just kind of odd that there's sort of a unanimous consensus on ePlaya that DJs ruin Burning Man, but they are allowed to continue wrecking the week for everyone.

[Bob]

Fucking up someone elses ART, even if it sounds bad, or loud, or even just looks awful is not a good thing to do, not recommended, etc.

What if everyone played the same music, or built the same static/interactive art, or mutant vehicles?

What if Larry.org mandated Lawrence Welk ? ?

Likely a very boring event.

I agree!

I'm obviously not an expert, just trying to make sense of things as I see them posted.

Eric probably said it best in his post relating that everyone's experience isn't necessarily going to reflect your own. Just kind of odd that there's sort of a unanimous consensus on ePlaya that DJs ruin Burning Man, but they are allowed to continue wrecking the week for everyone.

Because nobody on the eplaya collects the ticket money from the thousands of ravefucks.



<yawn>

Speaking of "the scene"...

[gaminwench]

It isn't about whether or not one likes the music, it's about the way so many vehicles/clubs play their stuff SO LOUDLY that it OVERPOWERS anything within a block(or 3)... especially when inside the city and unattended (this happens a lot more than one would expect)...
The huge sound camps - RS/OT - are not the problem; they use quality equipment, aim their speakers responsibly, don't have 'rookie' DJ's 'learning their sh*t on the fly', and are placed in the LSSA zone...

When your 'art' beats the sonic crap out of anything aural nearby, it becomes more assault than 'art'...

[JStep]

Because nobody on the eplaya collects the ticket money from the thousands of ravefucks.

Wow, very enlightening. I think you hit my blind side on it's head. I'm not used to thinking of this as a commercial, for-profit event. My idealistic side probably buys into the idealism of the experience... and makes me blind to the capitalist reality that this is about people selling tickets to an event to make money. Disheartening, but necessary. Thanks for that wake up!

[Eric]

I'm not used to thinking of this as a commercial, for-profit event.

For-profit, yes: there is a paid Board & staff; commercial, not really- not like a concert is anyway. Figure that most of us pay to attend, and the various government agencies that are able to milk the event like a never-ending cash cow, so there is lots of money involved. Then there's the little fact about how much we all spend getting there, but that money doesn't go to the Bmorg.

Once you're in BRC, however, I think you would be hard-pressed to think of it as a commercial event.

[theCryptofishist]

Of course I just made up that statistic, but if it works for Fox why can't it work for us?

*heart flutters*

[theCryptofishist]

I'm not used to thinking of this as a commercial, for-profit event.

For-profit, yes: there is a paid Board & staff; commercial, not really- not like a concert is anyway. Figure that most of us pay to attend, and the various government agencies that are able to milk the event like a never-ending cash cow, so there is lots of money involved.

I would hesitate at "for profit." We all know I'm no big fan of Larry, who seems to have a tin ear to a lot of ht culture he's supposed to have created, but if he wanted to make more money off the event he could. When's the last time you saw a prime time tv paid advertisement? When's the last time you listened to Larry on the radio giving away a free pair of tickets to the 658th caller?
That being said, yes, they are finally consistently in the black after years of just eking out the cash flow until tickets are on sale again in January.

[neon tetra]

Just trying to make sense of what I see/read on here.

IMHO, don't.

Sure, there's a lot of good info on here, as well as entertainment, but like others have said... don't try to make too much sense of any of it. Same goes for when you get to the playa.

I've noticed that some of the best experiences there are the "WTF?!?" moments, and just the sheer amazingness of BRC as a whole. Don't try to figure it out, don't try to compare it to anything else, and don't listen to anything I say either.

[Simon of the Playa]

Fucking up someone elses ART, even if it sounds bad, or loud, or even just looks awful is not a good thing to do, not recommended, etc.

What if everyone played the same music, or built the same static/interactive art, or mutant vehicles?

What if Larry.org mandated Lawrence Welk ? ?

Likely a very boring event.

I agree!

I'm obviously not an expert, just trying to make sense of things as I see them posted.

Eric probably said it best in his post relating that everyone's experience isn't necessarily going to reflect your own. Just kind of odd that there's sort of a unanimous consensus on ePlaya that DJs ruin Burning Man, but they are allowed to continue wrecking the week for everyone.

Because nobody on the eplaya collects the ticket money from the thousands of ravefucks.



<yawn>

Speaking of "the scene"...

you know, this might stir the french to make their own burning man on the ashes of euro-disney and stay home this year...

[Eric]

I'm not used to thinking of this as a commercial, for-profit event.

For-profit, yes: there is a paid Board & staff; commercial, not really- not like a concert is anyway. Figure that most of us pay to attend, and the various government agencies that are able to milk the event like a never-ending cash cow, so there is lots of money involved.

I would hesitate at "for profit.".... When's the last time you saw a prime time tv paid advertisement? When's the last time you listened to Larry on the radio giving away a free pair of tickets to the 658th caller?

As shocking as it is to us Uhmerkin's, there's actually a difference between being "for profit" and being "greedy".

"For profit" and "Nonprofit" are legal designations- "For profit" simply means that a profit is the goal, not necessarily a big one, and that taxes get paid on income the LLC makes. Any income above expenses can be doled out however they want.

A nonprofit doesn't pay taxes, but should have a mission that benefits "the greater good". No taxes are paid on income, but any money earned over expenses (including salaries) must be plowed back into the nonprofit.

[theCryptofishist]

For-profit, yes: there is a paid Board & staff; commercial, not really- not like a concert is anyway. Figure that most of us pay to attend, and the various government agencies that are able to milk the event like a never-ending cash cow, so there is lots of money involved.

I would hesitate at "for profit.".... When's the last time you saw a prime time tv paid advertisement? When's the last time you listened to Larry on the radio giving away a free pair of tickets to the 658th caller?

As shocking as it is to us Uhmerkin's, there's actually a difference between being "for profit" and being "greedy".

"For profit" and "Nonprofit" are legal designations- "For profit" simply means that a profit is the goal, not necessarily a big one, and that taxes get paid on income the LLC makes. Any income above expenses can be doled out however they want.

A nonprofit doesn't pay taxes, but should have a mission that benefits "the greater good". No taxes are paid on income, but any money earned over expenses (including salaries) must be plowed back into the nonprofit.

Okay, you're right. I just get so sick of the people who flip from "Not a non-profit" to "Larry is Scrooge McDuck" in a micro second. I'm simply not ready for another round of that circus.

[neon tetra]

[double post]

[neon tetra]

Yea, I heard that Burning Man is, like, all commercial now.

(you wouldn't believe the amount of times I've heard that)

[JStep]

Well I didn't mean to stir up a controversy, lol.

I simply meant I wasn't considering the income generating motivation behind encouraging as many people as possible to buy tickets, even if it means a lot of them have nothing to offer or just offer really bad DJ skills.

The capitalist slant on it has, I think, been overshadowed by my idealistic (ex Rainbow) side.

[neon tetra]

I don't think it's a capitalist motive that's to blame for all the DJs there. I think it's just that the playa is the ultimate playground, and EDM just happens to be popular. There's also an entire week of timeslots to fill for each stage & MV, so every performer isn't necessarily going to be great.

Don't be discouraged though. You will certainly have your mind blown out there. And if you don't like what you're hearing.. walk, bike, or hop an art car to a different area. The best music isn't at the bigger camps most of the time IMO. Hookahdome is small in comparison, but they play some of the best eastern-influenced dubstep, trip hop & breaks (& more) that I heard out there.

Believe me, you won't be bored out there! There's so much out there it's a bit overwhelming. And my most memorable times there aren't ones I planned (like a DJ I planned to see), but were things I stumbled upon.

Fuck, I can't believe it's still 9 months away! lol
At least snowboard season is upon us.

[Cheyenne]

I'm going to bring some of my live setup over to the USA for BM. It means having to put everything in custom made gauze bags to play with.. but it may just dispel some of the myths of electronic musicians. I dj Detroit techno mostly, but my production stuff is downtempo ambient and thought provoking electronica... not grating on the ears... and with some wierd additions such as short wave number stations!!

[Eric]

I simply meant I wasn't considering the income generating motivation behind encouraging as many people as possible to buy tickets,

I don't think the LLC encourages "as many people as possible" to come. I had no idea how it was run, & didn't care- and still don't, for the most part, and had never seen anything trying to get me out there. I live in SF, the Burning Man backyard- if any community was ripe for "encouragement" by the LLC it would be here. Nada from them other than Decompression & stuff geared towards people who already go.

If it makes you feel better, they're also working on taking it non-profit, which can help restore you idealism quotient.

People come because they want to be there, the money is secondary.

However- This is NOT the Rainbow Gathering!!.

Never has been, never will be. Don't confuse the two.

People at Burning Man run the gamut from survivalists who like to party to spiritualists who want to go "om" all day. From dirty hippies who want to hug you to dirty DPW's who want to steal your beer because they think they're entitled. It is not a kumbaya circle of love. However, if that's what you want it to be, it's amazingly easy to have that happen.

It also must be something fairly incredible to keep people like us posting on a board dedicated to the Event all year long, for years on end. If you like it, you tend to really like it!

[JStep]

However- This is NOT the Rainbow Gathering!!.

Never has been, never will be. Don't confuse the two.

Believe me, I don't make that mistake and I wouldn't be very interested if it were a Rainbow Gathering. I did that thing to the hilt, helped run a road dog kitchen for well over a year, fed thousands of people along the way... and I have my own reasons for not being into that scene any more. It had it's time and place in my life and I wouldn't trade it for the world, but I can't take the Rainbow Trail seriously at this point in my life.

[neon tetra]

I love hippie/jam festivals more than anything. Especially ones with performers like Pretty Lights, RJD2, STS9, Yonder, Lotus, Les Claypool, Eoto, etc.
And if there's one thing that I miss at Burning Man, it's the insane vibe that some of them have. I never quite find that there.
But one thing I don't miss is the cracked-out wookies that a lot of those shows attract. I'm sure Burning Man has some sketch too, but it's not very much from what I've seen.

[theCryptofishist]

I simply meant I wasn't considering the income generating motivation behind encouraging as many people as possible to buy tickets,

I don't think the LLC encourages "as many people as possible" to come. I had no idea how it was run, & didn't care- and still don't, for the most part, and had never seen anything trying to get me out there. I live in SF, the Burning Man backyard- if any community was ripe for "encouragement" by the LLC it would be here. Nada from them other than Decompression & stuff geared towards people who already go.

Seconded. As I tried to allude to upthread.

[JStep]

LOL,
What I've learned reading this thread:

1.

[Eric]

LOL,
What I've learned reading this thread:

1.

You are mastering the zen of Burning Man, young grasshopper. You will do well.

[JStep]

LOL,
What I've learned reading this thread:

1.

You are mastering the zen of Burning Man, young grasshopper. You will do well.

Thank you Master. There seems to be an inversely proportionate relationship between number of posts read and amount of knowledge gained.

[Eric]

LOL,
What I've learned reading this thread:

1.

You are mastering the zen of Burning Man, young grasshopper. You will do well.

Thank you Master. There seems to be an inversely proportionate relationship between number of posts read and amount of knowledge gained.

Technical knowledge can be gained- tent stakes vs. rebar; how to build a hexa-yurt; evap pond ideas; costume ideas; etc. Even on those there are multiple choices, but its easier to figure out what will work for you.

Everything else is from personal perspective, and doesn't count for anyone except to the person saying it (including this sentence).

[JStep]

Technical knowledge can be gained- tent stakes vs. rebar; how to build a hexa-yurt; evap pond ideas; costume ideas; etc.

That's where I get the data I need that I can use. This thread is more of me trying to figure out if there really are that many people all doing the same exact thing very badly or if there is more a subset of particular people on ePlaya that are just of the same opinion. Or maore a mix of the two I suspect.

Anyway... I think I've drifted this tread enough. LOL. Look forward to griping about the thump, in the sun, on the playa, and maybe a share a drink with you.

Goodnight!