Portable toilets at BM being dumped in the desert?

nevadadrifter · Post by **nevadadrifter** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:02 pm

I sent the below email to the earth guardians on Monday evening, and Susan replied back to me the next morning. As I mention in the email, I have absolutely no proof that this story is fact. I'm hoping that someone can uncover the truth for themselves and stop something like this from happening!

The email sent to BM earth guardians.

"Hello, I'm writing to you today regarding some information I was given recently. This is all purely rumor at this point, since I did not personally hear any of this information firsthand, and I hope that it is entirely unfounded.

The owner of the "Johnny on the Spot" business which supplies Burning Man with all it's portable toilets for the event was recently overheard by someone I consider extremely trustworthy, claiming that he does not transport any of the human waste from the playa to the nearest appropriate facility for proper disposal. Instead, he supposedly has some form of agreement with Washoe county (or possibly BLM,) that allows him to simply dump the waste directly onto the soil at an unknown location in the desert, away from the playa. After the waste has been dumped onto the ground, it is plowed into the earth, and left alone. The owner reportedly pays a fee to the county for being able to do this, but it is more cost effective for the company to pay the fines that it is to properly dispose of a weeks worth of waste from 35,000 burners.

I was thinking of posting this information on ePlaya, but decided against it, since I am not 100% positive it is true. If this story is indeed true, I find it shocking and appalling. I hope that the staff at Burning Man will look into this and try to discover the facts for themselves. Surely with as much as Burning Man does to keep the playa in such pristine condition, this would not be the type of activity they would condone. Even though the organizers most likely have no direct control over how the businesses they contract with run their operation, this story would undoubtedly damage the enviromentally friendly image that Burning Man works to uphold.

Please Johnny, say it ain't so!"

And the reply I recieved from earth guardians

"Thanks for your email. We're definitely interested in this type of information and want to do our part to ensure that Burning Man is not leaving bad traces in the Nevada desert. Our first point of contact is already at the playa so we'll have to get back to you after the event.

Thanks again for your interest and bringing this to our attention!

susan
earth guardians volunteer coordinator"

I have full faith that the folks at BM will do their best to look into this, and resolve any issues. But seeing as how I will not be on the playa until later in the week, I decided to go ahead an post this story here, hoping that if this story is true, we try to keep a single ounce of waste from being dumped out in the desert! Maybe a casual conversation with one of the waste removal truck drivers would turn something up. I just hate to think of all that crap just being dumped somewhere out in the desert, but I'm really hoping that the owner was just making this little story up, and he does the right thing!

Post by **Eric** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:35 pm

summary of the main point:

nevadadrifter wrote:Instead, he supposedly has some form of agreement with Washoe county (or possibly BLM,) that allows him to simply dump the waste directly onto the soil at an unknown location in the desert, away from the playa. After the waste has been dumped onto the ground, it is plowed into the earth, and left alone. The owner reportedly pays a fee to the county for being able to do this, but it is more cost effective for the company to pay the fines that it is to properly dispose of a weeks worth of waste from 35,000 burners.

I agree with you we should wait to hear the official word on this, but I would tend to think of this as quite false.

Burning Man participants use the blue rooms so often that they all (several hundred of them) have to be emptied roughly 3 times a day, every day for 7 or 8 days. Can you even imagine the amount of desert they would have to plow up to dispose of that? It would be at least as large as BRC itself. I think someone would have noticed by now if that was happening.

I hope my thinking proves right on this.

JediDale · Post by **JediDale** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:36 pm

Feces can carry a multitude of diseases. For this reason alone, I TOTALLY BELIEVE that whole story to be ABSOLUTELY BULLSHIT!! This type of behavior would result in criminal action taken against JOTS. Do you really
think they want to not only lose their business, but to get HEAVILY fined,
and do jail time for environmental damage as well as costs of restitution??
SERIOUSLY, the whole story is made up SIMPLY by those who want to discredit Burning Man!!

Genuinely,

JediDale Of Reno

nevadadrifter · Post by **nevadadrifter** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:03 pm

JediDale wrote: SERIOUSLY, the whole story is made up SIMPLY by those who want to discredit Burning Man!!

I really hope that comment wasn't aimed at me.

I'm just passing along information here, not trying to start anything. I personally think this story is totally bogus. I am in no way trying to tarnish a well-earned reputation. Had I wanted to do that, I would have taken the story to the local news media, and let them put their spin on it, BEFORE they found out any facts! BM works harder than any organization out there to keep the playa beautiful. I informed the organizers of the story, and just thought other burners out there would appreciate the story as well. And that seems to be all it is, a STORY.

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:04 pm

that allows him to simply dump the waste directly onto the soil at an unknown location in the desert, away from the playa. After the waste has been dumped onto the ground, it is plowed into the earth, and left alone.

That place out in the desert is an unedible garlic farm. Unedible Garlic is used to scent propane. That's right people, our shit is saving lives!

They had to start trucking all of our shit out there because the waste treatment facilities refused us. They refused us because of all the asshats who couldn't manage to keep their tampons, chicken bones, condoms, babywipes, watermelon rinds and other foriegn objects out of the poopers.

You see, when the shit goes into the waste treatement facility it all passes through a screen. Anything that does not fit through that screen must be cleaned off BY HAND! (well, a guy with a long stick and a glove anyway). Then whatever they clean off has to be treated a hazardous waste and diposed of properly. A few years ago it can became too much of a pain in the ass for them to deal with. Hence the Garlic Farm solution.

It's all totally legal, and above board.

robbidobbs · Post by **robbidobbs** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:07 pm

Thank you Chai.

JediDale · Post by **JediDale** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:11 pm

2 people straightened me out that the shit is used exactly as ChaiGuy sez!

Thank You for your replies!

Genuinely,

Jedi Dale Of Reno

nevadadrifter · Post by **nevadadrifter** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:22 pm

Interesting.... And the blue chemicals they use in the tanks doesn't present any sort of a problem? It wasn't the shit itself I was concerned about to begin with, it was the blue liquid that they use.

Okay, you've got me. I have to admit it. Yes I've stared down at the depths of a portable toilet before. Don't ask me why!

Chai, thank you tremendously for clearing that up for me. I was starting to think that things were going to get ugly, and that truly wasn't my intent!

JediDale · Post by **JediDale** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:36 pm

I was feeeling a little hostile after getting highly educated by Robbidobbs
on the issue of potapotties. Unfortunately, the only thing not mentioned was the garlic farms was not mentioned!! Lets drop this thread into the blue stuff (digestive enzymes). to finish it off!!

Genuinely,

Jedi Dale Of Reno

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:59 pm

Chai Guy wrote:
that allows him to simply dump the waste directly onto the soil at an unknown location in the desert, away from the playa. After the waste has been dumped onto the ground, it is plowed into the earth, and left alone.

That place out in the desert is an unedible garlic farm. Unedible Garlic is used to scent propane. That's right people, our shit is saving lives!

They had to start trucking all of our shit out there because the waste treatment facilities refused us. They refused us because of all the asshats who couldn't manage to keep their tampons, chicken bones, condoms, babywipes, watermelon rinds and other foriegn objects out of the poopers.

Works for me. I don't see how dumping it somewhere and plowing it under is any kind of health hazard.

okcismelanie · Post by **okcismelanie** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:29 am

Being that I am in the sewage disposal busness I should respond to this. First off most small-and some large townships normally use "lagoons' or "trenches" to dispose of the sewage-dumping it into a holding pond. Since it is 94-97% water and this evaporates, what's left is a sludge, once dried it becomes a very nice and germ free fertilizer. Most of the germs in sewage are bacteria that die off once the sewage is decomposed-people and animals have been shitting for hundreds of thouands of years and it is a very effective self decomposing system if left alone.. The blue liquid that goes into a portable toilet is mostly formaldihide and meant to kill the harmfull germs-with some fragrance and some blue coloring. Now if people are putting garbage in the toilets-the lagoon idea will not be effective and treatment plants normally will not take portable toilet sewage. If we are"known" to have alot of "other" stuff in our toilets it doesn't surprise me that no plant would take it.
If enough concern is expressed there are other ways of dealing with the shit problem-like incinerating portable toilets. They cost a bit more but the byproduct is a harmless powder and they don't fill up nearly as fast as "wet" portables. But they require a power source...

Please forgive all my spelling mistakes and take my two cents for that it's worth.

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:44 am

This thread definitely caught my attention when it first appeared and my initial reaction was WTF? But after reading Chai's and okcismelanie's replies it all makes sense. And in fact I've heard of this practice before with other municipalities once I got to thinking about it.

That being said there are asshats out there like the Stop BM folks who will take something trivial like this and make it into a Broadway production that would make Andrew Lloyd Webber jealous. I hope I'm wrong...but with the 2006 permit coming up they are looking for ANYTHING that can be used against BM. My point here? Expect this to resurface around January with a bunch of hype associated with it. I hope I'm wrong...but I doubt I will be.

BTW thanks everyone for the great explanations. And the initial post was well written, it's not the hyped up, trumped up charges we see float through here from time to time which is nice.

joel the ornery · Post by **joel the ornery** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:05 am

sort of off topic...

it is pretty interesting to be doing your burning man thing,

then the wind blows... and you smell a nice faint whiff of garlic

then a memory your favorite Italian resturaunt comes to mind...

and all because you took a dump in the porta potties.

ain't life grand.

Steven bradford · Post by **Steven bradford** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 1:56 am

Because we all know that the proper procedure is to dump porta johns in to a tame black hole, where yucky waste is sucked into another universe.

Where do you think all our shit goes people??!!

One way or another it goes int the Earth/Gaia/Biosphere what have you. And eventually it ends up in what you eat and what you breathe. Twas ever thus and ever shall be.

Sheesh.

obscurotron · Post by **obscurotron** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:33 pm

[quote="Kinetic IV"]This thread definitely caught my attention when it first appeared and my initial reaction was WTF? But after reading Chai's and okcismelanie's replies it all makes sense. And in fact I've heard of this practice before with other municipalities once I got to thinking about it.

That being said there are asshats out there like the Stop BM folks who will take something trivial like this and make it into a Broadway production that would make Andrew Lloyd Webber jealous. I hope I'm wrong...but with the 2006 permit coming up they are looking for ANYTHING that can be used against BM. My point here? Expect this to resurface around January with a bunch of hype associated with it. I hope I'm wrong...but I doubt I will be.

BTW thanks everyone for the great explanations. And the initial post was well written, it's not the hyped up, trumped up charges we see float through here from time to time which is nice.[/quote]

No, not really something we care about. Why? Because we already knew about how JOTS disposed of its waste in NV and CA. Watching this short thread, and the do-gooders have a nice (albeit minor) freak out about it, was rather entertaining, though.

Regardless. See you all in January/February.

dj big E · Post by **dj big E** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:49 am

After all the poo info i have recieved from the queen of playa poo herself miss dobbs. I would lieke to point out that the porta poo waste is treated first on sight at bm spun through a centrifuge to seperate the solids ie trash then it is hauled to the non edible garlic farm. As a group are main prioriteies need to be the fucks dropping rocks shoes tampons and all the other foreighn materials that foul the jots systems. The availability of clean sanitary por4ta potties on the playa is one of the most crucial components of the burn if jots can not keep up with the poo due to equipment failure the burn will be closed serious health issues. A LITTLE OFF SUBJECT WHATS UP WITH ALL YOU FUCKS THAT CAN NOT SECURE YOU'RE LOADS i HAVE NEVER SEEN MORE TRASH ON THE SIDES OF THE ROAD UNTIL THIS YEAR YOUY LAZY FUCKS WTF.

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:00 am

Since DJ Big E spoke of it first....

The sorry motherfucker that was dropping rocks into the portapotties needs their fucking ass kicked, and if found to be permanently banned from the event. Long story short I was told someone had to climb into the centrifuge and remove by hand the rocks and other sabotage items. That's a sick bastard that would try and sabotage the event like that.
Speaking of portapotties I saw a lot of people using wetwipes which gum up the centrifuge because the portapotties were out of toilet paper. This is a problem that airports and other high traffic facilities have overcome years ago by installing larger rolls, multiple rolls, and other novel tricks...why does JOTS have such an antiquated mindset on how to outfit their portapotties? This is a universal festival and concert complaint not just a BM complaint allthough the stakes of running out of TP on the playa are much higher....It's time to lobby JOTS to upgrade the portapotties and add TP capacity. All they need is a new plastic molding, a metal bar or bars, and a couple of pop rivets and the issue is closed. And in fact I think I'm going to fire off a letter to JOTS about this. I'm tired of bitching and listening to bitching, lets get this problem fixed.

Slappy · Post by **Slappy** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:17 pm

The problem is larger than simply adding 2 cents at this moment in time. The most obvious solution (certainly within reach of anyone who cares about this event) is to taken ownership of the problem as a city and form a camp specifically equipted to deal with the problem. Perhaps such a camp would patrol the blue rooms several times during the day and/or evening and address any specific problem that they see....for the greater good...certainly a solution for someone who cares enough to ACT.

robbidobbs · Post by **robbidobbs** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:30 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:It's time to lobby JOTS to upgrade the portapotties and add TP capacity.

The tp problem pales in comparison to the larger problem of garbage and sabotage. They were bleeding money while the Centrifuge was down. That's a $90K piece of equipment we jacked, and they were *pissed*.

But to address the tp shortage: The sabateur was also puting whole rolls in the camodes as of Tuesday. Beyond that, I routinely found the toilets wallpapered w/ tp, so it's not that participants are so much using wet-ones instead of tp, but the fear of cooties is causing wastefulness. IMO of course. TP shortage will not end BM, baby-wipes can.

I use the potties, and just take a wad of tp and wipe down the seat before planting my fanny. It's not hard, folks.

Let's address the bigger problems, and the smaller ones will take care of themselves.

See: Getting Involved > All about Participating in the Pottie Project for more information on this subject.

Thanks for your input.

RobbiDobbs
DPW Volunteer Coordinator
Chief Poopervisor of the Pottie Project

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:34 pm

Slappy wrote: The most obvious solution (certainly within reach of anyone who cares about this event) is to taken ownership of the problem as a city and form a camp specifically equipted to deal with the problem. Perhaps such a camp would patrol the blue rooms several times during the day and/or evening and address any specific problem that they see....for the greater good...certainly a solution for someone who cares enough to ACT.

Robbidobbs is a one-woman force called the Pottie Project... If you want to build a camp of persons to help her, or suppliement her, or host her go ahead. Also--send her delighfully colored duct tape and join the pottie project for a few hours while on playa. Any further JotS efforts should suppliment, support and checkin/coordinate with her. She's a dust devil in that desert and needs all of us making sure teh turkeys don't have the opportunity to get her down.

In other words--go for it.

robbidobbs · Post by **robbidobbs** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:54 pm

Thanks Fishy.
Slappy, I second the motion: Go for it.
The program is called Adopt a Potty-Bank.
The rules are posted on All about Participating in the Pottie Project.
Please post all questions and concerns there for efficiency purposes.

Black Rock Rickkkk · Post by **Black Rock Rickkkk** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:04 pm

The material that has been trucked from Reno/Sparks to the garlic farms is highly processed.

You are saying that plain old untreated waste is now being dumped? Why not? Nevada is just a wasteland to you urbanites. Dump your trash on the side of the road, shit in the garlic, piss by the thousands on the wasteland.. A dust cloud rising a thousand feet in the air and blowing down wind, Who Cares,, Ya'll head back to the city when it is all done.

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:57 pm

Black Rock Rickkkk wrote:The material that has been trucked from Reno/Sparks to the garlic farms is highly processed.

You are saying that plain old untreated waste is now being dumped? Why not? Nevada is just a wasteland to you urbanites. Dump your trash on the side of the road, shit in the garlic, piss by the thousands on the wasteland.. A dust cloud rising a thousand feet in the air and blowing down wind, Who Cares,, Ya'll head back to the city when it is all done.

Guess who didn't read for comprehension.

If it wasn't for us liberal polluters in the big city, them ar folks in the farmland would still be using oxen and donkeys to plow their fields and handsaws to drop timber.

But, gee whiz, they're not. Show me a farm that doesn't have a huge-ass truck made in a huge-ass factory in a huge-ass city using fuel made in a huge-ass refinery. And they sure as hell enjoy their computers and bandwidth, huh?

BTW, to an Oregonian... Nevada is, pretty much, a wasteland.

Festina lente.

-zb. (grew up on a tree farm.)

Black Rock Rickkkk · Post by **Black Rock Rickkkk** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:27 pm

Think theres much in the way of farming in Nevada? Think there is timber to drop?

Oregon, ah yes, Damp, humid green all over the place- gives the country an unhealthy look. The sound of all these verdant leafy things breathing and sweating and photosynthesizing around me all the time makes me nervous. Trees, I believe, like men, should be well spaced off from one another, not more than one to a square mile. Space and scarcity give us dignity. And liberty. And thereby beauty.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:57 pm

Ever look at the sat picture of the playa, and go N/E just a bit? You'll see green there.

bb

Black Rock Rickkkk · Post by **Black Rock Rickkkk** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:57 pm

I would hazard a guess you have never been NE of the Black Rock Desert, or you would not make a statement that infers a comparison between interior Nevada and western Oregon.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:15 pm

Black Rock Rickkkk wrote:I would hazard a guess you have never been NE of the Black Rock Desert, or you would not make a statement that infers a comparison between interior Nevada and western Oregon.

You may hazard, but you'd be wrong. Sorry. Have you? Never mind - if you had you'd have seen the farms. They grow, lessee... garlic and turf (by the freaking square mile) and various other crops.

BTW, I lived in Nevada for a few years (not counting my childhood) and traveled (and hiked) extensively.

All that is frigging regardless, tho... I said look at the SATELLITE picture of the Black Rock Desert. What, you missed that or what?? I made the statement because you can SEE the freaking irrigated circles up there in the SATELLITE picture.

Why are you comparing apples to oranges, tho? Nevada to Oregon? Yeah... Right. I don't think I did that. Why don't you go ahead and post a quote from one of my postings where I compared Nevada to Oregon, please? I'd love to see it...

bb

Black Rock Rickkkk · Post by **Black Rock Rickkkk** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 11:06 am

Sue,, we need to work on your geography. First, I made a post regarding the greenness of Oregon and my dislike of damp humid green environments. Your response was to state there is green NE of The Black Rock Desert. I then stated that to compare green in Nevada to green in Oregon did not make sense... Caught up now?

Now, let us look and the landscape NE of the Black Rock Desert. Directly East and getting on toward north is the Jackson Range, thinly clad in PJ's (since you have lived in Nevada, you will know what they are) a dark dusky almost grey green, a little east of the Jackson range is Desert Valley. Alfalfa is grown there, to compare that to the Willamette Valley or the Cascade Range or Oregon's coastal range, is a bit of a stretch, in no way could you, a rational human consider Alfalfa fields "damp, humid, green". Moving directly north and east of the Black Rock desert is the northern extension of Desert Valley, reaching into the middle reaches of the Quinn (properly Queen, but you knew that right?) River, there are a few cottonwoods along the stream course, the indians have a few alfalfa fields. Then we move into the Santa Rosa Range, again, PJ's, hardly a forest by Oregon standards. But at least the PJ's have some spacing, some dignity. Beyond the Santa Rosa's is the Owyhee Desert, perhaps the driest place in America. Even the ravens carry canteens (yes, a case can be made for the Black Rock Desert, and the Alvord, but they are smaller, it is a four day walk across the Owyhee, carry your own water).

In addition there are no garlic fields, or turf grown NE of the Black Rock Desert. There are garlic fields north of the western foot of the Black Rock Desert, and there are garlic fields south east of the BRD. Again, taking your premise, a garlic field hardly compares with my original post of damp, humid, green

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 7:43 pm

That's nice. I still never compared Black Rock to the Willamette.

This is old. Goin' back to where people don't have to argue about something that really isn't worth the time.

Plus I'm not into dueling. I'd rather hang with friends than take crap from someone who i don't know who is (apparently) pretty new here anyway. Not saying I'm burnier than anyone (I'm not) but, really... you always come on a board and start to argue with someone?

Sheesh. I'm done here.

bb

Black Rock Rickkkk · Post by **Black Rock Rickkkk** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:27 am

Sue, your claim of knowledge and demonstrated lack of knowledge was exactly what I expected. After looking over your website, I would like to recomend that you get back out there, beyond the Black Rock.. Get to know the landscape, get bipedal again..

My grave concern about those who attend BM is that they are rather like the fellow in the last scene in the Devil and Miss Jones. Nevada is Miss Jones.

Portable toilets at BM being dumped in the desert?

Portable toilets at BM being dumped in the desert?

Re: Portable toilets at BM being dumped in the desert?

SOUNDS LIKE ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT TO ME!!

Re: SOUNDS LIKE ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT TO ME!!

I stand corrected!! Chai Guy is right!!

My Apologies NevadaDrifter.

other facts

Reno Sparks Sanitation

Re: Reno Sparks Sanitation

eh?

green

Re: green

Green

The Devil in Miss Jones.