Muslims at Burning Man?

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
Starjack
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Muslims at Burning Man?

Post by Starjack » Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:13 pm

Last year was my first Burn and I saw a bunch of Jewish, Christian, and Pagan events on the schedule.

Wondering if there's anybody planning Juma'a or Dhikr for Mulsims and friends -- or anyone interested?

Assalaamu Aleikum!

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Post by theCryptofishist » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:53 am

I know of one person who may be interested. She's not muslim but has spent time in palistine. She's not on this board much anymore.
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who

Post by naken » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:12 pm

Not much chance of seeing them,unless there there to learn to leave no trace,an scope out our dome houses.The radical religeous nature of most of them would kill us all in a second,i hope someday they will grasp the concept of freedom,before were are forced to terminate them to maintain ours,sad but true.Our country makes mistakes,world war 2 was not a mistake,the failure of the united nations to be united is a major factor in current situations.I love all the people but there probable downfall an nuclear result effecting the world i hope to survive,sorry for the negative news here .Enjoy what you can .share an give ,continue the spirit of burning man ,no matter what.

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Post by Starjack » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:05 pm

As a Muslim, I am especially sorry, Naken, that you have such a limited and negative view of our religion. It's quite like judging Christianity only by the 700 Club and KKK rallies, or Judaism only by the destruction of Palestinian villages. Every religion has its hate-filled fundamentalists. Why ours command so much attention nowadays is a long, complicated subject, but the majority of Muslims are not like that.

Many of us do understand Islam as a path to peace and friendly co-existance with others. I couldn't have been the only Muslim at Burning Man last year. You could easily see us there without realizing it. Like gays or episcopalians, we tend to blend in with everyone else. I'm proposing that we might get together, at least for a Friday Juma'a prayer.

Assalaamu Aleikum!

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Re: who

Post by DVD Burner » Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:20 pm

naken wrote:Not much chance of seeing them,unless there there to learn to leave no trace,an scope out our dome houses.

Actually it's "their there" but hey that's just me. ( I have no problems with how one spells but what the content, context is.)

They have been there for years. They just never made it a point of them being there.


This I know for a fact.


I guess they left leaving no trace.


(Ironic thing is that I know that many met these folks I know and they, many that think other wise of me...... would never know it......Toooooo funny.)

:lol:
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Post by DVD Burner » Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:31 pm

Oh and hey,


the Muslims I know that have gone are very very cool. (for lack of better words......or not.)
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Post by HughMungus » Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:39 pm

Starjack wrote:As a Muslim, I am especially sorry, Naken, that you have such a limited and negative view of our religion. It's quite like judging Christianity only by the 700 Club and KKK rallies, or Judaism only by the destruction of Palestinian villages. Every religion has its hate-filled fundamentalists. Why ours command so much attention nowadays is a long, complicated subject, but the majority of Muslims are not like that.

Many of us do understand Islam as a path to peace and friendly co-existance with others. I couldn't have been the only Muslim at Burning Man last year. You could easily see us there without realizing it. Like gays or episcopalians, we tend to blend in with everyone else. I'm proposing that we might get together, at least for a Friday Juma'a prayer.

Assalaamu Aleikum!
You could put a sign up at Playa Info and even outside your camp. Just pick a time and location to meetup. You could also register it as an event that would be listed on the flyers they hand out at the gate and at Playa Info. Don't let anyone's opinion here slow you down. They're entitled to it but it doesn't mean they're right about you, in particular.
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Re: who

Post by Starjack » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:58 pm

[quote="DVD Burner"][quote="naken"]Not much chance of seeing them,unless there there to learn to leave no trace,an scope out our dome houses.[/quote]


Actually it's "their there" but hey that's just me. ( I have no problems with how one spells but what the content, context is.)
:lol:[/quote]

I wasn't going to quibble over spelling, but since you bring it up it's "they're there"

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Post by LeChatNoir » Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:22 pm

I am not Muslim, and yet if I were permitted, I’d be interested in joining you in a Friday prayer. I'm always interested in learning. Please do post something at playa info if you can.
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Post by Starjack » Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:32 am

Surely anything that happens will be open to anyone who comes in peace, and will be posted one way or another. While friends would be welcome to join us, I was hoping that this thread would be a means for Muslims to share perspectives and to organize prayer and/or dhikr. Please, if you have Muslim friends who have been to Burning Man or are planning to come this year, invite them into this discussion.

If others are interested, there may well be someone more experienced in leading the prayers. Hopefully, at Burning Man there would be no controversy about a woman leading the prayers if, insha'Allah, there is a sister who is interested and able.

And it is not to make a point of us being there, but to have a chance to pray together, especially on Friday midday as we are called to do.

Assalaamu Aleikum

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Post by we0ne » Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:38 am

I too would be interested to join you for a prayer and perhaps bring my son. Wonder if anyone has ever done a "religion camp" encompassing traditions from many different religions, might be a cool idea.

Cheers

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Re: who

Post by DVD Burner » Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:48 am

Starjack wrote: I wasn't going to quibble over spelling, but since you bring it up it's "they're there"

:lol:


See? :P
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Post by DVD Burner » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:07 am

Starjack wrote:Surely anything that happens will be open to anyone who comes in peace, and will be posted one way or another. While friends would be welcome to join us, I was hoping that this thread would be a means for Muslims to share perspectives and to organize prayer and/or dhikr.
IMHO, I think/know you watch too much T.V.....

who wouldn't come to BM in peace?

I shall leave that one as is.
Starjack wrote: Please, if you have Muslim friends who have been to Burning Man or are planning to come this year, invite them into this discussion.
From what I have understood from them......( my friends and many of yours, though you may not know or may know)....uuuummmmmm…….......(My and some of your Muslim friends/burners.)...In this climate? In this day and age of outsourcing and all.....(even though they do not do in many cases that sort of work.) :lol:


Why should they join this discussion?
I am
(and I am sure they, though I may be wrong.) not sure but they would find that/this is an uncomfortable position to be in.

But I will ask.


(was that toooo confusing?) :lol:


They think not much of these message boards though they do, do some of the programming for some of the companies that make these things.
(Not to mention, they do not think too much of the users, as do many of the other programmers that program these CMS’s/phpbbs’s/bbs’s.

(That goes for many of the colorful people that I know in the same if not similar sort of businesses.)



Starjack wrote: If others are interested, there may well be someone more experienced in leading the prayers. Hopefully, at Burning Man there would be no controversy about a woman leading the prayers if, insha'Allah, there is a sister who is interested and able.
It's Burningman, for crying out loud, .Crimson presents the ceremonies

Starjack wrote: And it is not to make a point of us being there, but to have a chance to pray together, especially on Friday midday as we are called to do.

Assalaamu Aleikum

as most may tell you on this board and elsewheres if you have come across those that have crossed, (you seem to be a nubie, I could be wrong but it's really possible..) what you have just posted may come to roost , for you have obviously missed the point.

(Dis gonna be funny.) :lol:



These that I I speak of as my friends, though I have told them face to face, my opinion about ALL religions, that is, that I believe/know all religion and politics is bullshit, face to face as a human being allowing my freedom of thought.......


They have.....( so far. They have accepted me for whom/what I am no matter what.)


Can you say the same about your closest friends?
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Post by DVD Burner » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:23 am

That may have been too much for some:


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Post by AntiM » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:20 am

I'd love to hear the call to prayer floating out across the playa at least once. (what is that called specifically in Arabic? I can't recall). I've lived in Shiraz and Taif and it was a consistent part of the aural landscape I loved even though I'm nowhere near being a Muslim myself.

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Post by MoisturePup » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:53 am

Starjack wrote:As a Muslim, I am especially sorry, Naken, that you have such a limited and negative view of our religion. It's quite like judging Christianity only by the 700 Club and KKK rallies, or Judaism only by the destruction of Palestinian villages. Every religion has its hate-filled fundamentalists. Why ours command so much attention nowadays is a long, complicated subject, but the majority of Muslims are not like that.
Then perhaps the Majority, if they are the Majority, need to assert themselves.

I find myself torn between the politically correct version of Islam in which Muslims are happy smiley people heaping nothing but love on women, gays, and non-Mulsims, and the face of Islam that my eyes tell me is the real face of Islam. In many Muslim countries women, gays, and non-Muslims face persecution up to, and including, death. (I don't have the data to say most Muslim countries, but I'm pretty sure it is "most" and not just "many")

If the Majority of Muslims are not these terrible awful terrorists, and militant jihadists that they are protayed to be on TV, then perhaps it's not too much to ask that if they truelly disagree with these acts that they do something about it. Complacency is as much of an endorsement as any protest or news paper editorial.

I know when Bush wanted to go to war in Iraq I marched in the streets, several times. I started a website for editorial and news opinion to help get other people charged about getting Bush out of election. I went to Reno for 8 days before the election to do unpaid get out the vote work with organizations that shared my goals of ousting Bush. Did it have an effect? Yes, but unfortunately we were out manuevered by Karl Rove and his ability to whip up our own facist segment of the population that hates gays nearly as much as Saudi Arabia does. While the battle was lost, the war wasn't. We all can see how the Bush administration is falling apart now. That's in part to people in the middle speaking out against the far right ideologies of those currently in power. Bush's major downfall started with Social Security Reform, and that opened the eyes of so many sleeping moderates in this country. And they called their Republican senators and Congressmen... and as a result nobody would touch this thing. And that awakened middle is now speaking up about all sorts of far right agenda plans the Bush Administration once had and now have to scrap.

So I'll say it again, complacency is as much of an endorsement.

And it is with that than that I hope there are more Mulsims at Burning Man. Because Burning Man envigorates, it energizes, it does a lot of things that start with "en." I hope that our energy can wrap itself around all open minded people that attend this event and give them the courage to fight for what they believe in off the playa. I hope that the power of "desert snuggle fest" is the snow flake that begins the avalanche.

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Post by Kinetic IV » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:18 am

<soapbox>

Islam to me = Sharia Law
Sharia Law if taken to it's extremes would advocate the end to the Western way of life as we know it. And IMHO it would transport society back in time...not quite to the stone age but a place not far off that would be about as miserable.

Going further into it.....

Islam, in particular fundamentalist Islam scares the holy freakin heck out of me. I want to be tolerant and respect the rights of others to believe as they want however when that group would like nothing more than to kill me and eliminate my way of living from the face of the Earth, my tolerance and respect take a back seat to self preservation...which can get downright ugly.

I'd like to learn more about moderate Islam...I truly would. But I have yet to meet or even read anything from a so called moderate, everything I see seems to be influenced by the radical side. If there are muslims at BM that can show a different side to the religion than what many of us see, I certainly hope they step forward. I'd love to get a different image of them than what I currently have.
</soapbox>
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Post by Starjack » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:34 am

DVD Burner wrote:IMHO, I think/know you watch too much T.V.....
who wouldn't come to BM in peace?
I shall leave that one as is.
(1) ??? You don't know me
(2) My assumption that everyone coming to BM comes in peace is why I brought up this subject.
DVD Burner wrote:Why should they join this discussion?
I am (and I am sure they, though I may be wrong.) not sure but they would find that/this is an uncomfortable position to be in.

They think not much of these message boards though they do, do some of the programming for some of the companies that make these things.
(Not to mention, they do not think too much of the users, as do many of the other programmers that program these CMS’s/phpbbs’s/bbs’s.

(That goes for many of the colorful people that I know in the same if not similar sort of businesses.)
Given some of the stereotypes and misconceptions coming up on this discussion I can see why Muslims would be uncomfortable in this discussion. I'm beginning to regret having opened it up. My intent was to invite a discussion among Muslims, not a catalog of misconceptions about us.
DVD Burner wrote: as most may tell you on this board and elsewheres if you have come across those that have crossed, (you seem to be a nubie, I could be wrong but it's really possible..) what you have just posted may come to roost , for you have obviously missed the point.

(Dis gonna be funny.) :lol:

These that I I speak of as my friends, though I have told them face to face, my opinion about ALL religions, that is, that I believe/know all religion and politics is bullshit, face to face as a human being allowing my freedom of thought.......

They have.....( so far. They have accepted me for whom/what I am no matter what.)

Can you say the same about your closest friends?
Well, your elliptical writing style makes points easy to miss... and yes, I have friends of a full range of faiths including atheism. Nu?

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Post by Kinetic IV » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:56 am

My intent was to invite a discussion among Muslims, not a catalog of misconceptions about us.
I don't know if there are other muslims on the eplaya...if there are I'd enjoy reading any discussions / posts that come up. And if that's not possible any comments or points of view from your perspective would also be welcome...at least by me. Speak, teach, some of us would love to know more about your beliefs and not get our impressions about Islam spoonfed to us by biased mass media.
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Post by Starjack » Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:30 am

Moisture Pup:

Depending on where you're marching against the war you might meet some of the many Muslims who consider themselves moderate, progressive, and/or feminist, and even those among us who are struggling to be heard over the rants and raves that grab the attention of the media. It's a pity the news didn't take a day off from speculating on the whereabouts of OBL to report on the conference of Feminist Muslims that recently took place in Barcelona.

I have as little patience with the sterile PC image of "happy, smiley people" as with the more prevalent stereotype that you repeat here. Real life, especially discussing 1.5Bn people around the world, is far more complicated, and Muslims are as diverse and individual as, say, Christians, with a world-wide variety of sects, perspectives, cultural milieux and politics.

Much less do I have any patience for people who don't listen to us and keep asking why we don't speak up. Granted that frustration has much more to do with the media that are supposed to inform the people, than it does with the folks who depend on that information.


Kinetic IV:

A more correct version of your formula would be:

Islam/Sharia Law = Christianity/Pat Robertson's ideal theocracy.

Actually the concept of Sharia is not nearly that simplistic, but that's a whole other huge discussion....

There is a lot of diversity in our community and sometimes saner minds do prevail. Recently the Muslim Canadian Council led a successful effort along with other progressive Muslims to defeat a bill in parliament that would have allowed Islamic religious arbitration/courts as an alternative to the existing legal system. Many Muslims saw that the more conservative elements would use this to oppress women and gays as well as to restrict open discussion about theology and politics.

Fear of fundamentalism is reasonable... those are scary folks, Muslim or Christian. Given the power of Christian Fundamentalists in American politics these days, I find those a lot scarier, or at least the mroe immediate threat.

If you really want to know more about progressive Muslims, just google that phrase and you'll see some excellent starting points.

Those Muslims who come to Burning Man would obviously be of the more mellow and accepting sort. Nothing to fear.

Assalaamu Aleikum

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Post by MoisturePup » Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:14 am

Starjack wrote:
Given some of the stereotypes and misconceptions coming up on this discussion I can see why Muslims would be uncomfortable in this discussion. I'm beginning to regret having opened it up. My intent was to invite a discussion among Muslims, not a catalog of misconceptions about us.
Isn't that really the problem Starjack? Muslims seem to rarely be willing to discuss anything when they are forced to talk to somebody with a contrary opinion. Of course, just about all people are like this, but most of us in the "western world" at least make an attempt at hearing out contrary opinions. Not wanting to discuss things with non-Muslims sends out a pretty strong message that you place zero value in the opinions of non-Muslims. I doubt that's the message you want to send. Are your beliefs so weak that thoughts and opinions to the contrary endanger them?

Who am I kidding though. Far-right and Far-left are all guilty of such exclusionary thinking. It's much easier to support your point-of-view when you don't have anybody saying anything to the contrary.

But you should know that when you post something on a forum which is probably 95% non-Muslim you're going to hear all sorts of opinions. It is too much to ask that people on a discussion forum not discuss.

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Post by lurker » Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:14 am

I am going to say harsh things....
Given some of the stereotypes and misconceptions coming up on this discussion I can see why Muslims would be uncomfortable in this discussion. I'm beginning to regret having opened it up. My intent was to invite a discussion among Muslims, not a catalog of misconceptions about us.
Stereotypes and misconceptions?

The Cartoon Jihad riots have been on television--though our media has cravenly bowed to Islamic pressure and refuses to show our people the cartioons Muslims are rioting over.

But we have gotten to see the cartoons that decorate the pages of newspapers in Islamic countries---are they being forced on the peaceful Muslims, Starjack? Are the peaceful Muslims being forced to riot and burn in Europe? Are the peaceful Muslims being forced to listen to diatribes against the infidel?

What do we see, Starhawk? Not from American propaganda machines, but from news sources reporting ABOUT Muslims to Muslims. Are ALL of those broadcasts, ALL of those wbsites, ALL of the huge mountain of intolerant, viscious barbarities being forced of this 'majority' of peaceful Muslims?

And look at yourself--
A more correct version of your formula would be:

Islam/Sharia Law = Christianity/Pat Robertson's ideal theocracy.

Actually the concept of Sharia is not nearly that simplistic, but that's a whole other huge discussion
Pat Robertson does not get his way. The Bible that he so relies on does not support his idiocy. But, do you know what? Pat Robertson doesn't advocate stoning rape victims. Pat Robertson doesn't forbid little girls from leaving a burning building because they are not properly covered. Pat Robertson has no more political power than any other gaseous windbag in this country. More people listen to Paris Hilton than Pat Robertson.

And then...you insist that sharia is much more complex. We don't care, Starhawk. We have our laws here. Written by people--not derived from some lunatics visions(and I don't believe that the ten commandments are valid law , either)

I am sick to death of Muslims purporting to be peaceful--you ask about muslims at BRC--they'd be welcomed. It would be amazing to hear the call to prayer echo over the desert. This is something OUR culture values--the diversity of the parts that make it. Would a Christian be welcome on the hajj? In Mecca? Would they be welcome to circle the Kaaba(sp?)? How about a jew? A homosexual? A witch?

You exploit the freedoms we willingly profess while sanctimoniously denying the validity of those freedoms.

Starjack, you might be a great person. A peaceful, intelligent, all around gem. But your faith is violent, intolerent and dangerous. Muslims might be great--as individuals. In the aggregate....
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Post by MoisturePup » Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:26 am

Starjack wrote:Moisture Pup:
It's a pity the news didn't take a day off from speculating on the whereabouts of OBL to report on the conference of Feminist Muslims that recently took place in Barcelona.
Well, that was informative, thank you for the info about the positive happenings in the Muslim world. Feel free to e-mail me with more, I'd love to hear some good things for once.

That said...

OMG I can't believe the Canadian government even considered for 8.2 seconds the thought of turning over part of their government to a religion. That's frightening.

Starjack just so you know I have as much disdain for all religions. I've been raised to believe strongly in my own ability to rationally examine the world I live in, and tend to see religious followers as misguided idiots that need an adult version of Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny to fill their uneducated empty heads. I mean, seriously, anybody who can rationalize the existence of magical cloud beings that speak to humans has got to be an uneducated empty headed idiot. And if somebody reading this doesn't like being called stupid, then don't be stupid!!

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Post by Badger » Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:33 am

The myopic asshat wrote:
Not much chance of seeing them,unless there there to learn to leave no trace,an scope out our dome houses.The radical religeous nature of most of them would kill us all in a second,i hope someday they will grasp the concept of freedom,before were are forced to terminate them to maintain ours,sad but true.


What a sad, pathetic person you are.
Desert dogs drink deep.

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Post by Eric » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:20 pm

This is just sad.

A Muslim asks for other Burning Man Muslims so he can have prayer on Friday and people attack him for what the media is reporting about troubles with Muslims elsewhere in the world.

As a Jew, I would hate to post a request for Friday prayer and get attacked for Israels building of the "security wall" or it's policies that I disagree with, but thats what seem to be happening to Starjack. While he is coming from a more moderate stance (if he wasn't, do you think he's be coming to BMan????), he's being attacked for the ideology of the extremists in his faith. Can I attack every straight Christian for the anti-gay anti-female stance of the Catholic Church? After all, they're "Christian" just like some of you. I guess you have to defend their positions to me or I get to attack your faith- even if you aren't following the teachings of those leaders.

Wake up- the Muslim faith is as diverse as is all others. The harsh Wahabi sect of Islam being exported by Saudi Arabia right now, and becoming dominant in the media, is not the only branch of Islam there is.

How many branches of Christianity are there? Thousands? Faiths and sects and cults of 20 people, all with different takes on the teachings in the same book. Saying that every Muslim wants to impose Sharia law on the world is like saying that every Jew wants the whole world to live under the 600+ commandments the Ultra-Orthodox want people to follow. It just ain't so.

Islam is a beautiful religion, full of compassion and love. It's also an awful and harsh religion, mis-interpreted and used for purposes counter to a lot of it's own teachings- just like every other religion I've ever encountered. Hell, I've met fundamentalist B'hai and Buddists, and those are some of the most peaceful religions I know.

Starjack- I have much sadness where this thread has taken you, and I hope you find a group for your Friday prayers.

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Post by MoisturePup » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:42 pm

Religion is the symptom of a weak mind.

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Post by Kinetic IV » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:09 pm

MoisturePup wrote:Religion is the symptom of a weak mind.
I prefer this quote:
Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers. - Jesse Ventura

You may laugh at who said it but you can't really laugh at the message itself.
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Post by Eric » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:24 pm

MoisturePup wrote:Religion is the symptom of a weak mind.
And being judgemental of people you don't know is a sign of a strong mind?

And Kinetic- not all religious belief requires "numbers". My beliefs are mine alone, though I may find wisdom in the teachings of others. I don't preach, and I go to temple as a form of meditation, not as a weakling seeking strength.

I would rather have my "weak" but questioning and exploring mind then a closed one that disparages people who don't think the same as them.

Being a fundamentalist atheist is no better than any other fundamentalist. Its the expectation that everyone think the same that is bad, not the fact that people naturally think differently.

I haven't seen anyone being insulted for not being religious- what makes you think its okay to insult the people who are?

The insults being thrown at those who choose to be religious is why you only see the extremists in any religion. Those of us who are quietly faithful find the smug "I don't believe in god so you shouldn't either" atheists as pathetic as the worst preacher teaching hate. Read your own words- what you are saying is the same thing as them.

Weak mind my ass- at least I'm not afraid to use it.
It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

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bdeywoo
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Re: who

Post by bdeywoo » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:39 pm

[quote="naken"]Not much chance of seeing them,unless there there to learn to leave no trace,an scope out our dome houses.The radical religeous nature of most of them would kill us all in a second,i hope someday they will grasp the concept of freedom,before were are forced to terminate them to maintain ours,sad but true.Our country makes mistakes,world war 2 was not a mistake,the failure of the united nations to be united is a major factor in current situations.I love all the people but there probable downfall an nuclear result effecting the world i hope to survive,sorry for the negative news here .Enjoy what you can .share an give ,continue the spirit of burning man ,no matter what.[/quote]

Ya know Jeffrey Dahlmer was a Christian, using your line of thinking all Christians are evil i guess. Have we not learned anything in the last 100 years? To group all Muslims as "radicals" is just uneducated and fear based. I suppose all Muslims are part of Hamas as well yes? I have a mosque just down the road from me, maybe i should check to see if they have plans to blow my house up. Can you not realize all faiths and countries have bad people, dont sterotype an entire population of people based off the bad deeds of a few.
Am I the only one disgusted with this general mentality we as a society are moving too?

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Eric
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Post by Eric » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:47 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:
MoisturePup wrote:Religion is the symptom of a weak mind.
I prefer this quote:
Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers. - Jesse Ventura

You may laugh at who said it but you can't really laugh at the message itself.
I didn't cover this in my last post.

The "message" of Ventura is just a re-wording of Karl Marx's "religion is the opiate of the masses", just said without as much style.

True in some cases, false in others. Just like life.

Anyone quoting "absolutes" for human behavior sets themselves up to be knocked off their smug little perches. Or become a minion of the Christian right- they love absolutes.

Now- does anyone want to have a "conversation" about this, or would you like to just keep tossing insipid quotes?

I'll start the conversation with some articles by one of those weak religious minds. You might have heard of him- some guy named Einstein.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/einstein/einsci.htm
It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

Regarding Scammers & Scalpers
Please read above link for all official information.

Eric ShutterSlut
Ass't Editor, BRC Weekly

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