Muslims at Burning Man?

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
MoisturePup
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Post by MoisturePup » Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:20 pm

skygod wrote:Hands him a tissue?
Paper or cloth?

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Post by transgirl » Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:25 pm

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but did anyone see the "Muslims Only" bike rack at Center Camp? It was very rude and intimidating, saying only followers of islam were allowed to park there, and "fuck everyone else". It was right in the middle of all the other racks and there were only two bikes parked in it, so apparently the violent, intolerant warning must have worked. the other racks were pretty full. I sure as hell didn't park there.

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s5
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Post by s5 » Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:03 pm

transgirl wrote:I don't know if this has been mentioned, but did anyone see the "Muslims Only" bike rack at Center Camp? It was very rude and intimidating, saying only followers of islam were allowed to park there, and "fuck everyone else". It was right in the middle of all the other racks and there were only two bikes parked in it, so apparently the violent, intolerant warning must have worked. the other racks were pretty full. I sure as hell didn't park there.
My guess is that they were trying to make a statement about the current treatment of Muslims in American society and the direction it's headed in. Perhaps misguided, but that sounds more likely to me.

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Post by lurker » Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:31 am

It was, as has been said, most likely placed there to make a point--'Who, in hateful, bigoted America, will place their bike on this rack and risk being the brunt of the wrath against Muslims'.

Apparently there were few takers. Did people fear that wrath? Or were they, like you, all too ready to believe that such a thing was real? That Muslims, at BM, got a special rack for their bikes, that perhaps there was some religious reasoning behind it(not as far a stretch as you might think--go to 'ask an imam' and see the list of things that appear to have specific instruction in Islam, from what sexual positions to use to how to properly wipe one's ass).

Perhaps there were even some fool enough to feel that they deserved it, for all that they've gone through.

But that is a lie. There has been no massive backlash against American Muslims because of 9/11--oh, there have been crazies, but there are always crazies. I have personally been attacked for things as small as being the wrong color for the neighborhood I was passing through. By crazies.

What HAS increased, however, are the instances of Muslims taking offence. Take Starjack, for example. When I said that it is better that nine hundred million Islamic 'moderates' die than one hundred million Islamic fanatics be allowed to take over the world, all he saw were the muslims--he implied that I advocated their wholesale slaughter. He gave no thought whatsoever to the other five billion people on the planet. He grasped at a phrase and took offence--never mind that it showed him as being indifferent to the billions that the fanatics openly seek to oppress--or kill.

And so I am the rube, and he is the 'caring', 'moderate' Muslim. But that's alright. I don't mind being thought of as vile because I think I'm saying something important here. I think this war could go to horrible extremes. And I do not think the fanatics can win. But I do think they can provoke a response that will eradicate much or most of the Islamic world--and horribly scar the rest of the planet.

And I don't want that to happen.

Islam has to be told 'No'. With force, if need be. It has to be told that it's beliefs will not be allowed to infringe on the rights of others. It has to be told that it must live in peace with it's neighbors. It has to be shown that if it expects tolerance and understanding that it must extend them as well.

I say 'it' because it is Islam that needs reform. There are many fine Muslim individuals, and taken as such, they can be and are wonderful people. But much of their faith remains mired in a medieval mindset. And that must change.

Bay Bridge Sue remarked that we should get past throwing rocks at each other for having a different faith. This is true. But right now Islam is getting rocks thrown at it, not because it is a different faith, but because good people are seeking to break the endless barrage that Islam throws, figuratively and literally, at the non-Islamic world. If they stop, things like Burning Man will become relics of the past. Because there are far too many rocks, coming from far too many placed in Islam and far too many voices exhorting them to pick up bigger ones.
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Post by transgirl » Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:54 pm

I personally, wouldn't park my bike at any rack that had a intimidating, threatening, exclusionary message written on it writen by any religion.

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Post by skygod » Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:42 pm

There are fascists in every religion.
"It will seem difficult in the beginning. But everything seems difficult in the beginning."- Musashi

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my 02

Post by Steel Kitty » Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:00 am

people can make all the distinctions they want about how Christians, Jews, Hindus, et. al are all alike.. with the exception being:

In the Modern age.. the PRESENT, there exists no other religion which advocates KILLING by stoning or other means, for various offenses.

Eric, of the many sects of christianity you mention, even radical judaism -- there exists no precedent which advocates killing.

If I were to meet a fundamentalist christian or a fundamentalist muslim in the street, I'd sure hope it was the christian -- while they might be far out in their beliefs of me going to hell and beyond... I'm sure my life or my head wouldn't be in immediate danger of being removed.

Remember the muslim convert to christianity? He was nearly killed for his beliefs...

sorry, but until moderate muslims step up. I'm with Kinetic and Lurker.
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Re: my 02

Post by skygod » Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:20 pm

Steel Kitty wrote: sorry, but until moderate muslims step up. I'm with Kinetic and Lurker.
I'm with you. Mohammed got cranky in his old age and the Surat is full of violence. Leaders use it for their own purposes and the innocent/ignorant simply do what they are told.
But I still say EVERY religion has the potential for violence.(Jesuits during the Crusades, Buddhist monks immolating themselves)
I just want to make a distinction between one's thoughts and actions.
I detest the suicide bomber not because they are Muslim, but because they are a murderer.
To punish someone for their actions is necessary, of course. But to punish them for what they think would be, of course, evil.
"It will seem difficult in the beginning. But everything seems difficult in the beginning."- Musashi

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Post by lurker » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:49 am

MSNBC ran the events of 9/11 as they happened today. It was as riveting today as it was then--moreso, even.

I thought about the fact that I'd been taken to task for my generalisations and I realised something.

The muslim terrorists also generalise. Only they're not just ruminating. They're killing and maiming people.

On 9/11, they killed thousands because they felt that the US 'in general' should suffer. They do it in bars and pizza parlors, on buses, in train stations. Very few of the people their bombs shred into hamburger are actively working against Islam.

And as I was watching I thought of something else. The celebration. Not just of a few jihadis, but of thousands of muslims, all over the world. The dancing, the shouts of allahu akbar as our people--and some of their people lay dead or dying.

Dancing. Thousands. Some even danced in Brooklyn, while inhaling dust clouds that contained particles of human flesh, of their fellow citizens. Dancing.

And it is demanded of me hat I show compassion, that I take Muslims as individuals--and I do. I do this as a matter of course, because that's how I was raised. But I can't help wonder how much or how little my tolerance is reciprocated. Would they dance If it was my blood on the wind? Would they scream 'god is great' if it was me, who DID accept them, who was lying on a bloody pulp under some rubble?

Am I guilty just because I have different beliefs? Am I a valid target because I am simply existing where they want to make a point?

I am faced with the idea that I am merely a generalisation to them--even if they know my name.

They danced. Not jihadis--American citizens, British sunjects, Australian citizens. They danced at the death of counrtymen who had accepted and welcomed them.

Is it wrong to wonder?
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Post by Kinetic IV » Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:03 am

Is it wrong to wonder?
Absolutely NOT!

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Ron
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Re: my 02

Post by Ron » Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:43 am

Steel Kitty wrote:p....In the Modern age.. the PRESENT, there exists no other religion which advocates KILLING by stoning or other means, for various offenses.
Really? That's a surprise to Eric Rudolf, I'm sure, who was confident his christianity advocated bombing abortion clinics. As a former producer of adult products I *regularly* got death threats from christians who justified their proposed violence against me with their religious beliefs. So there are plenty of christians who are sure that their religious beliefs do advocate killing for providing abortions and producing pictures of folk having sex, just to name to easy and modern examples. And setting aside all the Christian-Identity movement members who base their violent racism on Christianity as being too easy and obvious examples of faith based violent actors.

The fact is there is no single voice of authority for either Islam, Christianity, Judaism, or most any other major world wide religion. While folk who may call themselves Moslem may, indeed, advocate violence they can no more speak for the entire belief system than can Eric Rudolph, or very own, homegrown, abortion bomber and christian advocate of religious killing, can speak for all of Christianity.

Now you're welcome to keep all your misconceptions about Christianity and Islam. But the fact is that no modern, major, religion has a monopoly on faith based violence. Ask anyone who's grown up in small town America while being gay, providing abortion services, or having dark colored skin.

The real difference between Christianity and Islam? Here in the states Christianity (in all it's different sects) is the majority religion, and over there where we're killing folk Islam (in all it's different sects) is the majority religion. After that it's all in the dogma and that varies as much within the two groups as it does between them, IMHO....

Ron

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Post by lurker » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:02 am

Ron, there are no streets named after Eric Rudolph. There were no mass celebrations in the streets to commemorate his horrible actions. No church stands forward to justify what he did.

And while you try desperately to eqauate fringe Christian cults with mainstream Islam, I will point out again that we did not see small groups of jihadis dancing as the towers fell, we saw thousands of men, women and children dancing for joy.

That is the truth.

People like Eric Rudolph are not members of any sane, large Christian group, and they're not treated that way by ANY sane aspect of our society. To attempt such an equivocation is to perpetuate ignorance.
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Post by Ron » Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:00 am

lurker wrote:Ron, there are no streets named after Eric Rudolph. There were no mass celebrations in the streets to commemorate his horrible actions. No church stands forward to justify what he did.
How many months did he hide out in the woods, getting support from the local churches and hiding out from the law? There are plenty of Christian churches that commemorate what he did, they just do so quietly. Dancing in the streets? Nah, we don't do that for much of anything around here, but there are plenty of christians who advocate violence all the time. Or does that little preemptive invasion of ours not count?
lurker wrote:...l, we saw thousands of men, women and children dancing for joy.

That is the truth.
It's *part* of the truth. We also saw many expressions of regret, sympathy, and cooperation with our efforts to get justice. Both sides exist, you get to choose which one you want to represent the religion, but neither have an ordained right to be the definitive Islam. Any more than the racists who think Jesus loves white folk more, and that the "lost tribe of Israel," made it to North America, gets to define all of christianity.
lurker wrote: People like Eric Rudolph are not members of any sane, large Christian group, and they're not treated that way by ANY sane aspect of our society.
That's funny, the vast majority of Moslems say the exact same thing about the violent parts of their religion. And if we're going to let you say that about christians, shouldn't we let them say that about their religion?
lurker wrote:To attempt such an equivocation is to perpetuate ignorance.
LOL! And, after saying that, to tend the meme that christianity is inherently less violent earns one a gold star in being a pot complaining about that black kettle. As I said before, you're welcome to keep your misconceptions about religions. But for other folk reading this thread, Lurker's bigotry isn't universal here in the States....

Ron

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Post by lurker » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:36 pm

How much help did Rudolph get? I don't know. Do you? Can you name one of these churches--mainstream churches that helped and/or celebrates his actions?

I don't think you can.

And no, that 'little pre-emptive invasion' does not count. Dou you know why? Because it wasn't a 'christian' action. It was not ordered from a religious standpoint. It does not seek to impose christianity. So no. I'd say 'nice try', but it wasn't.
It's *part* of the truth. We also saw many expressions of regret, sympathy, and cooperation with our efforts to get justice. Both sides exist, you get to choose which one you want to represent the religion, but neither have an ordained right to be the definitive Islam. Any more than the racists who think Jesus loves white folk more, and that the "lost tribe of Israel," made it to North America, gets to define all of christianity
.

Many? Ron, if there'd been 'many' expressions of regret I wouldn't be saying any of this. But there weren't. Even our Islamic 'allies' are half-assed. They seem conflicted. And the mass population--even Iraqis who're glad we got rid of Saddam don't avt like they'd mind it at all if we got our asses handed to us by Islam.

And you're right about little twisted factions not having the right to define Islam--but those standing against us in Islam aren't little twisted factions--they're the Shia(sp) and the Sunni. Even the Wahhabi sect is huge. To equate scale, it'd be like the Catholics and the Baptists--with fervor supplied by the First Baptists taking up arms--not the Christian Identity idiots.
That's funny, the vast majority of Moslems say the exact same thing about the violent parts of their religion. And if we're going to let you say that about christians, shouldn't we let them say that about their religion?


Where is this 'vast majority', Ron? Where are the protests, the uprisings? Surely, if a few twisted fanatics are the problem the 'vast majority' would not only speak out, they'd help stop them.

Instead, Iran funds Hezbollah. Muslims in our country send money--and personnel to support jihadis. In our own country, Ron. Why? We're not oppressing them. They came here freely, and they enjoy the same rights as the rest of us.

Instead of believing in this fictitious 'vast majority' of moderate Muslims, we should realise that theydon't like us, they aren't helping us, and what we need to do is fight a war that forces them through the same kind of reformation the pulled Christianitys fangs.

And that's what I'm saying, Ron. Not that Christianity is inherently less violent, but that it's been de-clawed. I get pamphlets from bothersome Christians--not car bombs. There's a difference

And I have to say, I don't see my stance as bigotry. I'll accept anyone who isn't trying to fuck my life or the lives of those I care for up. Anyone.

Does what I'm saying sound bigoted? Absolutely. But I think that's because we all want to believe in a vast majority of sane Muslims who don't support violent jihad--me included. But I just don't see them. And I've been looking. On Islamic websites, at local mosques, even among Muslim friends(the quintessential proof of bigotry--I've got lots of fill-in-the-blank friends. I don't have 'lots', but I do have 'some')

Save for in the most secular, nearly atheistic Muslims I've met there is a drive for a worlwide Islam, sometimes its quiet, like devout Christians drive to 'spread the good news', but most of the time it's loud.

I don't want Muslims dead. I want them to stop killing people indiscriminately as a means of spreading their faith. Lately, it seems that's too much to ask.

And so, we fight.
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!

Post by Toolmaker » Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:09 pm

I have studied Judaism, Christianity, and Islam in my search for guidance through life. If one were to submit their will to allah I could not see attending Burning Man. Look no further than www.burningman.com
Radically Inclusive.. that means non-muslims will be there.. so if one were to submit to gods will and follow the law as given to Musa/Moses one would not find themselves at such an event. The nude women alone should deter the thought. I am NOT muslim, this is just my opinion based upon my interpretation of what I read in the Quran. For a muslim to seek guidance from a non-muslim is somewhat questionable. I would imagine that question could best be answered by someone at your masjid and/or mosque. Just be sure to let them know about the nude people, ravers on E, godess worshippers etc etc etc.

Best of luck in your search for an answer to your question I hope my thoughts helped you in some way.

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Post by Caffeinated Fire » Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:07 am

I am both saddened and amused to read Lurker's remarks. I'm amused by the way in which he implies that he has seen 100,000,000 angry muslim protesters on TV. How could so many faces fit on the screen in any reasonable length of time? If he were to count them, guess how long it would take? At a rate of one per second, it comes to about 3 years, 2 months and 2 days just to go "him, him, him ..." Forget about noticing who was doing what, that's just how long he would need to count them all. Where does such hateful conviction come from? How does he become so convinced that he has seen something that he could not possibly have seen?

The reality is that he has seen a relative handful of people in a population that nobody denies numbers in the hundreds of millions, and is willing to issue a call for a final solution based on that. Where are the moderate muslims? Being ignored by the press, because drama sells, and "a few hundred very stupid people showed up and screamed a lot" isn't dramatic. "They all want to kill us in our sleep" is, and it's amazing how many Americans will swallow that. Turkey has been a US ally for generations. and Morocco, outside of periods of occupation by the French, for much longer. Both are muslim countries. Shall we show what a decent people we are by slaughtering our own friends?

Because on the terms Lurker sets out, any nation would be doomed. There is not a country on earth where one couldn't round up a few hundred loons and get them to put a foaming-at-the-mouth screen-filling performance for the camera on behalf of any cause that one wanted. Just ten people will fill a screen nicely if zoomed in on; one doesn't need a cast of millions. Just a little selective reporting, especially during sweeps week, a willfully suggestible audience and you're in business. Sad thing is, it's a business that a lot of people are eager to get into, because there's an audience out there eager to swallow the crap they're being handed, especially when it allows them to pretend that their prejudices are something other than what they are.

If Lurker had called for the mass slaughter of African Americans because of the conduct of one small gang of toughs during a race riot, this board would be a mass of flame from those venting their very well-justified rage, but when he does basically the same thing to Muslims, instead, we see some disagreement (and some agreement!!!), but little outrage. The message that sends to every Muslim who comes by is "we feel your murder and the murder of everybody you grew up knowing is a negotiable issue, something on the same level as 'should we include pepperoni as one of the toppings on this pizza we're ordering'". How does one expect them to take that? Did they show signs of hostility, with that sign over the bike rack, assuming that they even had anything to do with that? Maybe, but if so, what would you expect? That they would say that this was OK, that they wouldn't mind the implication that the very acknowledgment of their humanity was a negotiating point, instead of a given?

That would piss off just about anybody.

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Post by Starjack » Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:10 am

Transgirl --

This is the first I've heard about a "Muslims only" sign at any bike rack. As a Muslim I'm offended that anyone would put up such a sign whether it was a Muslim throwing around attitude or a non-Muslim thinking s/he was making some kind of statement.

There is no place for any kind of religious exclusivism at Burning Man and such a sign should either be ignored or destroyed. And besides... how would anyone know your religion anyway? Park your bike where you like and let the haters get over themselves. Idiots like that thrive on intimidation and letting them get away with it only encourages them.

* * * * * *

Those of you who think that Christians don't threaten murder apparently have missed the rantings of Fred Phelps and Pat Robertson calling for the death penalty for gays. Then there's the neo-Nazi "Christian Identity" movement.... There are haters and extremists in all religions -- and among non-religious ideologies.

Even more frightening than the vehement frothing-at-the-mouth haters are people like the poster here who feels defensive and picked upon because I'm horrified that someone here could casually suggest that genocide would be a reasonable option. Even accepting his premises, it's a strategy that has always backfired, radicalizing the survivors, making them hard, angry, and bitter, feeding into ever deeper cycles of violence.

(And though it's besides the point, the Reformation did nothing to "pull Christianity's fangs," but rather, in breaking the Roman monopoly on Western Christian heirarchy, touched off religious wars between Protestants and Catholics, and caused the Catholic church to become much more repressive through the counter-reformation. It may be a mere coincidence that the Reformation coincided with the European colonization of the Americas, but while Catholics and Protestants both practiced genocide and slavery, the Protestant colonists -- followers of the Reformation -- rationalized racial theories to reconcile slavery with "democracy".)

* * * * * * * * *

Toolmaker --

The Qur'an tells us that God created different nations that we may learn from each other. If Muslims isolated ourselves among other Muslims our brothers and sisters in predominantly Muslim nations would not be migrating to western countries in such numbers. There are Muslims in inter-faith coalitions and programs, including working with Goddess-worshippers.

Sure, there's nudity and drugs at Burning Man, but Burning Man is not about nudity and drugs. As the Qur'an calls us all to our own reading and interpretations how one deals with the nudity is open to various possibilities. There are also 12-step meetings at Burning Man and people (in recovery or not) who do not participate in the drugs or the raves. That is not even a matter of religion, but there are different ways to experience Burning Man and there is plenty of room for interpretation within Islam. As a Muslim I am only responsible for my own behaviour and how others celebrate the event is their business.

Assalaamu Aleikum!

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Post by Lassen Forge » Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:16 am

Heya Starjack - welcome back.

Ya know... those posts are like... um...

9 months old or so?

Just sayin'...

(Whistles softly to herself...)


Glad to see ya back here!
Arakha fi mab'ad... :wink:
bb

Starjack wrote:Transgirl --

This is the first I've heard about a "Muslims only" sign at any bike rack...

* * * * * *

Toolmaker --
... God created different nations that we may learn from each other....
Assalaamu Aleikum!

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Post by DESERT LILLY » Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:20 am

very interesting, Yet I do not know how to take the advice from a said muslim who by participating in Bm seems to go against all the known teachings of that sect. Just like I do not put much stock in the Jehovahs who preach they are better yet get drunk off there ass regularly. Or the Catholics who hate lutherns, Or any other hipocrit. I just know I for one would not put my life in danger by assuming Muslims would openly accept me? After all It wasnt a group of tourist from the us who flew two jets into a mosque.

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Post by itwazed » Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:53 am

I dont even know where to start on this thread, I didnt even make it through two pages before I started getting all worked up.

First, StarJack I am Christian but as with you i tend to the more moderate (hell im way to the left) of what the percived image of my religon is. One of the things I hold in high regards in the Islamic faith is their dedication to prayer and I would be honored to take part in any prayer service you had.

Second, To attack a fellow burner for the sins of People who profess to follow the same teachings (but whos actions speak otherwise) is about as intelligent and enlightened as the inquisition. Ive been told on this board that becuase Im a Christian not only could I not attend burn with an open mind but if i did it woulc change my faith forever (that just made me laugh as this is my third burn and every burn has brought me closer to my faith in God).

And Finally, to those who consider anyone who has faith in something Higher then themselves weak, unenlighted, uncool, etc, I find some of the most intolerent people here on the e-playa to be those who have no faith in something greater....ohh the sweet irony in that.... Eric, StarJack, Fat SAM, DJmoYst, and myself (to name those burners of faith i know of) have entered these discussions with an open heart (this one and the burner impressions of Christianity thread) and most of all an open mind, so as you go on making judegements of us maybe you should stop and learn something from us. I personally feel a little sad for all of you who see faith as a crutch or something to be ridiculed, for me there is no greater sense of peace then when I feel the Spirit of God with me and that is something youll never know.
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Post by Fat SAM » Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:19 am

DESERT LILLY wrote:After all It wasnt a group of tourist from the us who flew two jets into a mosque.
You are so right. It was George Bush, Dick Cheney, and the rest of the Gang. And they did it from underground bunkers, miles away from harm and pinned the job on fanatics in order to garner support for an unjustified war. Bravo.

I'm with Twazed on the debate here...Why be spiteful to those who profess faith merely for the fact that they possess faith? Is it that the words Christianity and Islam (jew bashing is so strictly forbidden that I don't think it would really happen) are so synonymous now with weird crap in the news? It's fair to be a little raw, for sure. Prejudice, however, in whatever form it takes, is flat out ignorance, no matter the source. Make your assessments about people individually, because people are individuals.

And complaining about being worried over terrorist attack there? Nonsense. That's just an excuse to make bigotted remarks. I'm no more worried about being attacked at Burning Man that I am anywhere else, and frankly, I feel it's just as possible at BM as it is leaving my front door.
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Post by DESERT LILLY » Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:03 am

Bush and Cheney did it ! Let us not forget Gore and his weather controling machine and every other conspiracy thoery out there. They are all working together to get us and THEY are going to do it!!!! hahahah. I am having trouble understanding "moderate" muslim, or Modrate Catholic, OR moderate KKK for that matter. Its like saying, Im a KKK member but not one of those radicals that make us moderates look so bad. They always get all the press, Burning crosses, kicking old ladies off busses, Killing Niggers. I for one as a moderate kkk would never kill a black person, Maybe mame one but never kill one. I ask when do you stop being a moderate of any cult and become a free thinking individual with your own veiws. Why do people continue to try and link themselves to some group? A moderate catholic who doesnt beleive in the churches veiws is not a catholic. I know because I was one. I cannot support the church. I was raised in it and realize that it is not what I beleive, So there for I am not a moderate catholic, not even a liberal catholic, I am me. And I will find out in the end what lies for me, no one else. But I know when a group tries to attack not only my lifestyle but all who are not them, they are dangerous. So enjoy your pretend muslim get together. No pretend bombs, there just not funny!!

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Post by itwazed » Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:48 pm

We continue to indentify with our religons becuase its part of our own personal indentity. I for one refuse to let the religous fundementalists in my own religon chase me out of my professed faith. By keeping my indentity as a christian I do it in part to keep dialouge open, to show others that not all christians are fanatical "jesus freaks" who think all non-christians are doomed to hell. You cant change anything from the outside but as a part of the Christian community maybe I can affect some change no matter how small.
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Post by DESERT LILLY » Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:09 am

Being a christian is awful vague. I am christian, But I am not baptist, mormon, catholic etc..... What still confuses me is Why individuals feel that they can take what they want, Pick and choose which fundementals of a certian religion they wish to call themselves, Yet disregard other fundemantal teachings and still call them selves a _______ . Fill in flavor of dogma here. What I see in the "moderate muslim" is just that, I dont want to fly a jet into your home or anything, especially not kill myself doing it, yet I still like to chant and face east, so I am a moderate muslim, and Why dont you people accept me? Please enlighten me. I am all about freedoms, as long as it does not infringe on others ways of life. That said, NO one would even have a problem with muslims if they had not attached our country. Innocent, diverse people who they deemed to be substandard , so they decided to kill them.

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Fat SAM
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Post by Fat SAM » Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:28 am

I bet the people of Iraq feel the same way about your country.
Thanks to Addis, I had more free time.

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itwazed
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Post by itwazed » Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:54 am

Why can I or anyone else "pick and choose" what teachings we follow in Religons that are thousands of years old and have changed, been edited, censored, and in some cases warped by the people who have led them through the ages; because as intelligent, thoughtful, questioning human beings we find that message of love and hope not as much in the various texts of our diverse belief systems but within ourselves. We indetify with like minded people of similiar backround because as social creatures we seek out community (anyone who has been to burning man should be beyond familiar with that idea). So continue to criticize how I and other choose to believe it really doesnt matter to me, Ive got little respect for someone who preachs "individual freedoms" but that cant even recognize those people who are brave enough to hold to their personal beliefs within the communities they belief in even whenb those veiws are unpopular.

OH and lilly just an fyi Baptist, Catholic, Episcopailian...doesnt really matter to me the denomnational distinctions of my chosen religon are nothing more then a way to keep people divided and intolerent but I did grow up Espicopalian and am most comfortable at an Epsicopal Service when I do attend Church.
Fly Fat ASS!!! FLY!!!!!
He smoked a phat cronic blunt.

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Isotopia
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Post by Isotopia » Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:47 am

The plan this year is to have Adhan (Azaan) called out across Black Rock City during each morning of the event. Check here [/quote]http://www.balaams-ass.com/alhaj/calltoprayer.htm for a sample. Most people I've spoken to have been pretty receptive and excited about the idea. I was wondering what the chatterers here thought of the idea.
1 Allah u Akbar, Allah u Akbar
-- Allah is Great, Allah is Great

2-Ash-hadu al-la Ilaha ill Allah - Ash-hadu al-la Ilaha ill Allah
-- I bear witness that there is no divinty but Allah

3 Ash-hadu anna Muhammadan Rasulullaah
-- I bear witness that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger

Ash-hadu anna Muhammadan Rasulullaah.
-- I bear witness that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger

4 Hayya la-s-saleah - Hayya la-s-saleah
-- Hasten to the prayer, Hasten to the prayer

5 Hayya la-l-faleah - Hayya la-l-faleah
-- Hasten to real success, Hasten to real success,

6 Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar
-- Allah is Great, Allah is Great

7 La Ilaha ill Allah
-- There is no divinity but Allah

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Teo del Fuego
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Post by Teo del Fuego » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:08 pm

Isotopia wrote:The plan this year is to have Adhan (Azaan) called out across Black Rock City during each morning of the event.
Just pray to God it aint at the typical 5 a.m.

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Post by Archantael » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:26 pm

Teo del Fuego wrote:
Isotopia wrote:The plan this year is to have Adhan (Azaan) called out across Black Rock City during each morning of the event.
Just pray to God it aint at the typical 5 a.m.
So what's the difference between being woke up by morning calls to prayer or the Death Guild's propane fire cannon they used to have? It's all just as obnoxious...and there's no better time than the 5 to 6 am window to do it!

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Teo del Fuego
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Post by Teo del Fuego » Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:10 pm

somehow I was able to sleep in last year until whenever the whatever camp kicked off "My Baby Takes the Morning Train" by Shena Easton. Now that's a rude awakening! :)

I know its wrong to generalize, but I think Islam is the most peaceful religion ever! If everyone in the world were Muslim (Shiite or Sunni-must pick one, though) Earth would be paradise!

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