Muslims at Burning Man?

DESERT LILLY · Post by **DESERT LILLY** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:16 pm

What I was trying to explain, is Saying your moderate muslim and not expecting people to judge, Is like saying your a moderate KKK and, ohh never mind. Fuego, You crack me up.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:46 pm

Are you ever gonna be able to put a complete thought together DVD?

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:22 am

I am so... confused...

How does going to an event violate someone's personal faith? What they believe in their heart? Or is this some misguided attempt to slam someone elses religion? Like maybe, slam Islam because that's the current thing that's in vogue?

Casting stones at another, not showing love and faith and hope and charity... Bad Form. Not very so-called "Christian".

Riddle me this...

Pray tell, what parts of my religion do I violate by going? I'm sure people can imagine something. But... um... why? Why judge others? Why cast the stone?

It's sad, but until we can ALL accept each other for who we are, and NOT throw our own expectations of them on them (especially as a guilt gig) we're all just as guilty of this same shit.

Christian, Islam, Wiccan, Whoever.

Judgmentalism doesn't "crack me up"... it makes me horribly sad. Especially when I feel compelled to do it as well, in response to someone elses judgmentalism.

Then again, I tend to take shit far too seriously. So...

Didn't someone do Azaan last year somewhere on the Esplenade? I thought I heard someone was doing that last year...

And better... if Islam didn't prohibit alcohol (an arabic word, BTW), what would be the national drink there?

Have a wonder filled day...

bb

itwazed · Post by **itwazed** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:14 am

Well said Sue, well said.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:11 pm

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:Judgmentalism doesn't "crack me up"...

Me neither, nor does collective head burying in the sands of political correctness. Truth and humor are the first thigns to go.

Starjack · Post by **Starjack** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:20 am

Uh, yeah.... I was gone for a long time. didn't necessarily expect to come back to all this hatred and ignorance. (Granted that's not all that's going on here, but all in all it's pretty discouraging.) But I did take a peek and, seeing that nonsense about the sign, felt it was important --however belatedly -- for a Muslim to say that whoever put that sign up it was crap, even if it was just a stupid attempt at a joke.

How can going to an event violate someone's personal faith? That's a personal matter and the easy personal answer is: If you feel that way, don't go!

Just as there are self-proclaimed "Good Christians" who -- invoking their religious morality -- wouldn't go near Burning Man, there are also many Christians there and having events that celebrate their religion.

Same for Muslims, at least in theory. We haven't (As far as I know!) banded together in any religious observance as our Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Pagan, etc... friends have.

And here are correct prayer times for Gerlach the week of Burning Man.
If you don't want to be disturbed by the adhan you can probably find a place to camp by a nice, quiet rave.

27 Mon 4:41 12:59 4:42 7:38 9:16
28 Tue 4:42 12:59 4:41 7:36 9:14
29 Wed 4:44 12:58 4:41 7:35 9:12
30 Thu 4:45 12:58 4:40 7:33 9:10
31 Fri 4:46 12:58 4:39 7:31 9:08
1 Sat 4:48 12:57 4:38 7:30 9:06
2 Sun 4:49 12:57 4:37 7:28 9:04
3 Mon 4:50 12:57 4:36 7:27 9:02

The folks setting this up have not informed me of the timing they will use. They are not Muslims, but feel that the Adhan is beautiful and it is also beautiful to be reminded frequently of our Creator, whatever your faith.

Assalaamu Aliekum

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:24 am

I've seen numerous temples and cathedrals on the playa, but don't recall visiting a mosque...This needs to be addressed. Welcome, Muslim burners! Please forgive all the discussions about "bacon".

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:09 pm

A lot of religions are being hijacked by ruthless people. A lot of religions are vulnerable to this, too. I think Christians, Jews and Muslims who understand the tenants of their faith and who try to practice those tenants should--actually must--take to the streets in outrage over what is being done in the name of religion.

Declare a fatwa on cartoonists or Booker-prize winning authors? Call for the assassination of Hugo Chavez? Ban contraceptives? Run people off of their homeland? All of this is outrageous conduct and none of it is in keeping with the teachings of the Koran, Bible, or Torah.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:22 pm

I'm no religious scholar, but to me it seems all three of those books contain violent, hateful teachings in addition to peaceful ones. Some people disregard them and others focus on them.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:07 pm

MikeVDS wrote:I'm no religious scholar, but to me it seems all three of those books contain violent, hateful teachings in addition to peaceful ones. Some people disregard them and others focus on them.

Word!

plowman · Post by **plowman** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:14 pm

I believe we are getting away from the concept of the Burning Man experiance. I don't think religious or political beliefs should enter into it.
I will be there to meet and embrace diversity not challenge it.
Who are we to Judge?
How many of us are perfect?
Why should we want to be?
Which religion is right?
What gives us the right to condem another's beliefs?
God? Alla? Buddha? Jahova? The list goes on.
Maybe they are all the same person with different names.
All I know is it aint us.
As far as Muslims on the playa, Yes. It's still a semi free country. Different religious beliefs are not against the law. Not in America.

Green Wood · Post by **Green Wood** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:53 am

robotland wrote:I've seen numerous temples and cathedrals on the playa, but don't recall visiting a mosque...This needs to be addressed. Welcome, Muslim burners! Please forgive all the discussions about "bacon".

I have never seen a temple of an Established Religion on the playa!

have you robotland?

ON Another Note:

Is it a sin for a muslim to enter the Great Canadian Beaver Eating Contest?

The Hosh · Post by **The Hosh** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:47 am

Starjack wrote:Last year was my first Burn and I saw a bunch of Jewish, Christian, and Pagan events on the schedule.

Wondering if there's anybody planning Juma'a or Dhikr for Mulsims and friends -- or anyone interested?

Assalaamu Aleikum!

Muslims at Burning Man must have a lot of fun... Can't drink, can't have sex outside of marriage, can't be nude (or for women, show any skin), can't dance, can't listen to music made with instruments...

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:35 am

no drugs, no representational artwork, no kite flying, no firearms (well, that's BM's policy)....

The Hosh · Post by **The Hosh** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:15 pm

Teo del Fuego wrote:no drugs, no representational artwork, no kite flying, no firearms (well, that's BM's policy)....

Really? I saw at least one gun last year.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:49 pm

That was NOT a pistol in my pocket

plowman · Post by **plowman** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:36 pm

I always have my gun, but I leave my weapons at home

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:57 pm

I'm just a typical white devil that likes to party and eat bacon. I do not follow any of the big three.. though I have studied them to try to understand why jews, christians, and muslims have so much hatred for me. I never understood why the muslims have so much hatred for me just because I'm a white guy(white devil). I never understood why the jews have so much hatred for me because I'm white(goyim). I forget what the christian beef with me was but I think it had something to do with my polyamourous lifestyle. Frankly I gave up trying to understand the religious folk and just keep my beliefs to myself for the most part.

Starjack · Post by **Starjack** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:19 am

Between not being much interested (which is fair enough!) and the slanted BS in the media and the Fundamentalists on all sides, some of you guys have some pretty wacky views of Islam. Do you actually know any Muslims?

OK...... try to imagine if all you knew about American Christians was from watching Pat Robertson and reading Saudi newspapers..... seems you're about there with Islam. (Not trying to convert anyone here.... just saying, most of us ain't like that!)

Some of you seem to think that we're all like the Taliban and Saudi Arabia, which is kind of like thinking ALL Christians are like Pat Robertson and the Italian Fascists. Or that ALL Jews are like the Hassidim and/or Meir Kahane. Yeah, Toolmaker, there are haters in all religions, even among agnostics and atheists. And haters make the news big time, but most people in most religions are friendly and easy going. And the haters aren't going to Burning Man! As for "trying to understand the religious folks" it's pretty simple. We're petty much like everyone else, a very diverse group of individuals. Any major religion offers a rather broad set of principles, and includes a huge diversity of people who defy the stereotypes. I've worked with "pro-choice" Catholic nuns who support gay rights, and anti-Zionist Jews. Trying to understand us all as if we're all the same just doesn't work.

[B.t.w., Tool, "goyim" is plural. You're a goy, you're mother's a goyeh(feminine form) each of you is goyische (adjective) and together you are goyim, but all by yourself you are.)]

Anyway, Hon, Love and acceptance are supposed to be at heart of the big three, and if you've met Christians, Muslims, and/or Jews who hate you, my guess is that they're missing the point of the religion.... or maybe you're just a hateful little scumbag yourself? (Sorry.... bad joke.... couldn't resist!)

Islamic cultures are full of instrumental and sung music. Haven't you ever heard mid-eastern music? Representational art is also common. The art galleries in Tehran have some pretty incredible art, including portraits of the prophet Mohammed (Peace Be Upon Him) And what's this about Muslims not carrying firearms? Have you been seeing the news at all in the last 20 years?

I know Muslims who drink alcohol (It's pretty freely available in Turkey and Morocco, and can even be found without a lot of effort in Iran) I'm a recovering alcoholic and addict, so I don't and that's not an issue for me. And while I fully appreciate the freedom at Burning Man for people to make their own decisions about that sort of thing -- and the nudity, sex, etc.... it's not the booze and sex that makes Burning Man what it is. (There are AA meetings there, too!) The freedom to participate or not is indeed at the heart of the event. One can have a great time there without getting smashed or joining in games of athletic cunnilinguistics.

There are some things there I wouldn't do. But really, there's way too much for anyone to do everything she or he even wants to do, so we all make choices and enjoy what's there for us.

At the heart of the Burning Man there is a tremendous open spirituality. My friends at the Burn are a pretty mixed bag; some are partying their brains out, some spend a lot of time in prayer and meditation, and some do a bit of both. I'm not much a of a partier myself. but I love the art, the spirituality, and the tremendous diversity of art and spirit that are there.

Religious observances are not as loud and conspicuous as the all-night rave music, but there are quite a few religious gatherings listed in the program. I should hope that anyone who comes to Burning Man with an open mind and an open heart is welcome, free to practice any religion or none at all.

Assalaamu Aleikum

Barbie · Post by **Barbie** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:01 am

Look inside your Heart -WE ARE ALL ONE

That is what they (most Religious teaching) are peaching to us.... Until we figure that out we will always have war

and that's what makes me sad...were in this together people- unless we get it together Mother Earth is going to shake us off like the fleas we are....

Barbie · Post by **Barbie** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:06 am

WELCOME EVERYONE TO BURNING MAN MAY ALL GO IN LOVE,PEACE,AND FREEDOM I love you all and can't wait to see your smiling Faces in the DUST

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:28 am

Only on Eplaya do you have a Barbie that is not plastic, hollow and self-center.

Go Barbie!

ps- we're still going to march you into the ovens at Le Bistro & Wine Tasting Camp. Please join us for some wine at the Meet and Greet which is open to Eplayans regardless of their Religious views (non-alcohol is served for the observant)

Barbie · Post by **Barbie** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:37 am

Hey Its still ALL ABOUT ME!!!!!!! teeeehehehehettttehhhheee thats why they call me BARBIE.........(Well ME- MONKEYS and DONKEYS)

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:30 pm

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:Only on Eplaya do you have a Barbie that is not plastic, hollow and self-center.

Garsh, when I read that I got a little misty...well said there ApolloZ

StarJack: yes, Muslim roommate in college, Muslim colleagues. All good people. Middle Eastern culture has a phenomenal aspect of hospitality. My experience in Turkey was magnificent--(but that was pre-Bush.) I did not know representational art was "kosher" under Islamic law. I thought that was why Alambra and other magnificent palaces were decorated solely in those beautiful geometric patterns.

What I would really like to see: Muslims like you and the vast majority of other Muslims who are good and kind people STAND UP against the blasphemous thugs who have hi-jacked your religion and who are bringing us closer and closer to a cataclysmic World War Three. The West cannot do this....we only add fuel to the fire. The terrorists are like noxious weeds that keep coming back the more one yanks on them. They only die when the soil they're in proves inhospitable.

It seems all the people in the world are suffering from incredibly inept leaders at the moment, USA included, obviously.

playa_surfer · Post by **playa_surfer** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:56 am

[quote]
What I would really like to see: Muslims like you and the vast majority of other Muslims who are good and kind people STAND UP against the blasphemous thugs who have hi-jacked your religion and who are bringing us closer and closer to a cataclysmic World War Three. The West cannot do this....we only add fuel to the fire. The terrorists are like noxious weeds that keep coming back the more one yanks on them. They only die when the soil they're in proves inhospitable.

It seems all the people in the world are suffering from incredibly inept leaders at the moment, USA included, obviously.[/quote]

Well put.
What is keeping the vast majority of Muslims from letting the extremist minority live in their back yards? It looks like aiding and abedding from over here. I might be wrong. But I don't know shit as I get my propaganda from CNN.

If some extremist started some shit in my backyard, I'd gather all of my peace-loving neighbors and "make their soil inhospitable".
8)

Starjack · Post by **Starjack** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:06 am

Well, Teo, a lot of the problem there is that indeed the West is pouring fuel on the fire. Look at US military aid to repressive regimes in the mid-east, Pakistan, Indonesia....

* Hamas was started by Mossad with the intention of disrupting Fateh
* Saddam Hussein was promoted by the CIA against the Iranian "Islamic Republic" which was a reaction against a fascist US-backed Shah
* US supported Mujahedeen (against the USSR in Afghanistan) evolved into El-Qaeda -- which had no support or presence in Iraq until the US answered the question: "What could possibly be worse then Saddam Hussein?"

Please observe that most Muslim countries have been colonized by the western powers and now have client states in service to the globalist exploitation of resources and cheap labor. As most political opposition to the neo-colonial regimes has been squashed the only avenue for protest is through "religious" groups and fellowships, which under the existing pressures become ever more extreme.

In the meantime there are any number of Muslim groups in the West that are speaking up for social justice, women's rights, freedom of thought and religion, gay rights, peace, and labor justice -- but the mainstream media ignores those in favor of extremist wackos and sporadic violence. Well, it's no news that "if it bleeds it leads" and one mad bomber is more mediagenic than 1000 people marching for peace. So most Americans get the worst view.

Most Muslims, like most people everywhere, are apolitical, just living their own lives and trying to get by. Among those of us who are political, there's a broad spectrum, but the MSM is part of the war machine, firing up hostilities, so they ignore the good and progressive elements of the community.

Assalaamu Aleikum.

Seer13 · Post by **Seer13** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:07 am

Where were we, the Christians when Negroes were kept in Servitude in the American South?

Some of us ran underground railway; some were killed for that action. Others began a war between brothers and put their lives on the line for their belief in a world without slavery.
Others continued to oppress Negro Americans all the way up to and into the present day. Say the words "inner city criminal" and see the mental image that pops into your mind. However, more American murders are committed by white Christian males than any other group.

Try history again.

Where were we, the Christians, when Hitler came to power?
Where were we on Krystalnacht?
Where were we at the Death Camps?

AFTER, WWII, the vast majority of Germans rushed out of their mouseholes (some out of their fancy uniforms) and claimed "we were only following orders." The fact was, if they had not complied, they'd be as dead as all the gypsies, gays and Jews murdered on the advice of their Christian leaders.

Where were we, the Christians when the U.S. dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

I cannot believe that every single soul in those cities were guilty as Emperor Hirohito and his military advisers and deserved the fiery inferno or lingering pain of radioactive death?

Where are we the Christians in understanding our oppressed Musilim sisters and brothers?

Remember that when extremists take control they will KILL you if you oppose them. To stay alive to fight requires subtlety.

I have great respect for those moderates who have fled their countries to preserve self and family, and even greater respect for those who stay and continue the struggle against evil in all its forms.

Evil is evil regardless of its license plates.

The Original Post was a request for like-minded individuals to join in prayer. I will look at the Info Booth for the days and places of this prayer and come join you StarJack.

Peace. from a Quaker

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:52 am

Starjack:

What you said about US adding fuel to the fire is true. I think France, Great Britian and the Soviet Union acted arrogantly and stupidly in their handling of the Middle-East after the two World Wars. However, Islam faces a far greater problem than a history of colonization of its home countries.

I guess the images I had in mind were the images I saw around 1990 and 1991. Everywhere across eastern and western Europe people said "ENOUGH!" to oppressive murdeous totalitarian regimes. These regimes killed dissenters or sent then away. The people who took to the streets in protest were risking everything. Yet they did, and they won. Thugs were toppled.

I honestly believe that the real Muslims far out number the imposters. Particularly in Iraq, it seems a tipping point has been reached where so many innocnet Muslims are being killed by the imposters that it no longer makes sense to stay low and keep ones head down. How long would Al Q survive if every single day thousands of Iraquis marched down the street shouting and demanding AL Q go away?

Or is this really unrealistic? I can never know because I dont live there inthat hell, I dont have the historical background or context. But Irespectfully ask you your thoughts on this.

And if I see you on the Playa I hope you will accept from me a heartfelt hug (or handshake) and a nice strong cup of espresso.

Jus Say Ventura · Post by **Jus Say Ventura** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:46 pm

All muslims are welcomed at Burning Man!

Bring plenty of your lovely music please

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:30 pm

Green Wood wrote:
robotland wrote:I've seen numerous temples and cathedrals on the playa, but don't recall visiting a mosque...This needs to be addressed. Welcome, Muslim burners! Please forgive all the discussions about "bacon".
I have never seen a temple of an Established Religion on the playa!

have you robotland?

Numerous times. Perhaps your eyes were not entirely open.

Muslims at Burning Man?

Re: Muslims at Burning Man?

No High Ground to Stand Upon