Should BM move to Mexico?

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Should we move to Mexico?

Yes
21
15%
Yes
21
15%
No
48
35%
No
48
35%
 
Total votes: 138

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AntiM
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Post by AntiM » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:30 am

Lake Powell? That's where all the middle class Mormons go on their summer vacation. I scarcely want to go play with my neighbors.

If you're going for Utah, we have this bgi-ass salty lake and a whole lotta room next to the bombing range.

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dana
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Post by dana » Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:15 pm

AntiM wrote:Lake Powell? That's where all the middle class Mormons go on their summer vacation. I scarcely want to go play with my neighbors.

If you're going for Utah, we have this bgi-ass salty lake and a whole lotta room next to the bombing range.
A bombing range!!!????

This is starting to sound too good to be true!

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Zhust
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Why hijack?

Post by Zhust » Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:50 am

I don't understand: why not just start another similar event in Mexico? I mean, Black Rock City continues to experience growing pains and I've heard that the Burning Man organization encourages regional burns and would very much like to see them grow.

Just throwing it out there ... I don't really understand Mexican culture but from what I gather it's "bribe the authorities or else they'll take your cool schwag." I have cool schwag but I don't bribe well because I like to talk straight with people; therefore I doubt I'd go to Mexico for a similar event.
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Post by dragonfly Jafe » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:47 am

...plus imagine the border crossings with your typical burner vehicle/trailer (please pull over in that spot and unpack your belongings). Mexicans take bribes...Americans don't.

How about leasing a big old ship (cruising off mexico to stay on topic), and building a burn platform on one end. The top deck could be "esplanade", the lower decks the other "streets". Once you are 3 miles out....
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Post by EspressoDude » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:12 am

INTERESTING IDEA, BUT:

Coast guard inspections... and even worse U.S.Customs inspection upon return. Please unpack everything, and cavity search..... and US doesn't take bribes...
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Post by Ugly Dougly » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:24 am

Vamanos, ahora si!

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No

Post by Notanai » Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:22 pm

Burningman shouldn't move to Mexico. Their government is even more corrupt then ours. We would need to serioulsy lay down bribes not to all be thrown in jail. I see too many ways it could get exploited.
Compassion is the way

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Post by alienfry » Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:19 pm

yeahhhhhh you're right.

it'd be a bad idea.

a bad idea that i'd totally still be a part of. "BM moved to Mexico" would be met with me saying "I guess we're going to Mexico this August"
awesome oppossum

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BAS
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Post by BAS » Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:43 pm

A new Regional?? Any bites?
Well, I live near some nice sized lakes: Lake Michigan, Lake Superior. I don't know what it would take to rent an island, and it would mean all of the people from California would have to travel a long way (for a change-- oops! Did I just say that?! :oops: :P ) Hmmm. IIRC, most of the islands are up north. And if you think Black Rock gets cold at night, up north gets colder, and the water in Lake Superior will keep you cool all day after a brief dip!

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Do things that have never been done."
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diane o'thirst
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Post by diane o'thirst » Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:02 pm

While we're talking about islands...

There are other islands than the Channels. There are islands in the Puget Sound, Southeast Alaska, and Northwest Hawai'i that are uninhabited (but most of the northwest Hawai'ian islands have been designated a sanctuary). Heck, Wizard Island in Crater Lake, OR! It's a bare rock.

Burning Man on Midway, anyone?
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BAS
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Post by BAS » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:20 pm

Burning Man on Midway, anyone?
If only I could figure out how to afford to get there.... <sigh>

:?

B.
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Do things that have never been done."
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diane o'thirst
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Post by diane o'thirst » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:51 pm

Ugh. Can't anyway. It's a wildlife reserve Image

How about Palmyra?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmyra_Atoll

No ship needed, has its own airstrip, no inhabitants, 85º year round and no government...wait. It's Nature Conservancy and there's unexploded ordnance on the island... Image Image

Then again, with some of this bunch...that's just an attractor...
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chup
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Post by chup » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:20 am

Why don't we just Outsource all of Burningman to China ? It would only cost 1/5 as much and nobody would have to clean up the mess?
Lead Paint and Asbestos would be no problem ! We could stay home and watch it on TV while BM organization tells us globalization is necessary for the good of the country !

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BAS
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Post by BAS » Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:56 pm

Hmmm. Maybe Anartica? Durning August, it would always be night (so we can see the stars and flame art would always be impressive). There is no government to speak of, and hardly anyone else around! It would be IDEAL! :D


B.
"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.
Do things that have never been done."
--Russell Kirsch

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space monk
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Post by space monk » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:20 pm

i heard there is a movement from the 'inner circle' to have a BM on the worlds only other playa comprable to BRP....in mongolia! the gobi.

BM has to be on playa. blank slate. drum skin of earth, sending our vibes deep into mother. (and out into space.) any old open space will not fit the bill. and hell, what's an extra $15-30. however, getting away from the BLM and all thier 'black ops/psyops' would be nice...
TheFuseIsLit......

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diane o'thirst
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Post by diane o'thirst » Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:20 pm

And the best way to get around Mongolia is...BY HORSEBACK!! And there are WOLVES there, too!! Woohoo!!!

Archers, wolves, horsemen, yurts, lamb for dinner, cool Vajrayana Buddhist art, no bad news there!

Image
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philosopher
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Post by philosopher » Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:57 am

The event should move to land owned by the Black Rock Arts Foundation and rented to BMorg. I'm going to bet that a couple of hundred acres of desolate land would fit in a possible budget.

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BAS
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Post by BAS » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:46 pm

Mongolia sounds good! Woo-Hoo! Throat singing! (er, at least I think that's Mongolia...)

Now, where is a good travel agency...?


B.
"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.
Do things that have never been done."
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Post by pinemom » Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:38 am

I never post in here, I read it this morning...I am suddenly wondering....
WHY hasnt BMHQ.org ever just buy some land out here in nevada???
It would probly be a hellav alot cheaper then leaseing it from BLM.

Cant remember where but within hrs ride from reno...was a 120 acre parcel of land for $180,000. And I know there's ALOT of bigger properties then that out here!

Seems too at times that some of the stories of the nearby townships to BRC, rely on us, but hate us..like a love hate relationship???
Names pinemom, but my friends call me "Piney".

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Post by pinemom » Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:33 am

ok...im an ass...I didnt go to a converstion chart...shieesh 1 sq. mile is 640 sq. acres...
so If the circum' of BM is 7 miles? I think I heard that somewhere...that would be alot of acreage...hmmm
...crawl back under my pretty rock and try not to pretend I know whats going on....shhhh. Pinemom.....shhhhh!
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Post by philosopher » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:18 pm

So we are talking about 2,000 acres or so. Looking at classifieds for range land, we see that land near Gerlach is typically listed at $1,000/acre and in other places down to $300/acre. Finding a large enough place at a sustainable cost should be possible, especially since it doesn't have to be suitable for building or ranching.

Let's say the land was bought for $2,000,000. At $200/per ticket, the first 10,000 people in the first year pay for the land.

I am sure the folks running the LLC have thought of this and have reasons why a land purchase hasn't happened yet. Besides legal exposure issues (which might be sufficient to squash the idea--I just don't know), I am at a loss to construct a convincing argument against owning our own site.

So I think pinemom asks the logical follow-up question to my earlier post about moving to land owned by the BRAF.

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diane o'thirst
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Post by diane o'thirst » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:50 pm

They've been talking about it for years. Some rumblings but nothing solid Image

What we'd save in BLM fees would be more than gobbled up in insurance premiums...Image
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theCryptofishist
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Post by theCryptofishist » Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:26 pm

Don't forget that in Nevada 80% of the land is federally owned. With another 7% owned by the state itself, I believe. That leaves 13% for the tribes, private owners and city/county land. Plus it has to be near enough to roads, perhaps there would be issues with using non-playa land (i.e. land with something growing on it. Having no undergrowth is a good plan while playing with fire in a dry summer.) Plus there's the fact that if there is good land, it's probably not near Gerlach, where there has been a certain amount of investment in facilities already. And it's still relatively close to San Francisco. It still might make sence, but that narrows the possibilities.
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BAS
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Post by BAS » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:22 pm

Hmmm. I'm guessing insurance, convenience, and tradition-- maybe not in that order. (Convenience covering both laziness and the access/lack of undergrowth which can catch fire issues. :wink: )


B.
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diane o'thirst
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Post by diane o'thirst » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:54 pm

I'm looking to the various regionals for a model.

The Portland/Oregon ones have been held in forested properties, and we still manage to have a Burn. It's scaled down, but it exists.

The land probably wouldn't need to be all Playa; we can't have open fire in our camps anyway, so we might as well look for a piece of land that does have a topographical feature that's flame-resistent...like the open Playa...and continue the tradition of "No open fires in camp."

This year's theme talks about "collaboration with Nature." Sure, the Playa is a blank canvas, but the practice of "borrowing" natural elements is a longstanding one, all over the world.

Imagine holding the festival in a forest. Walking the paths of the woods, discovering this art installation, that camp, these people at every turn. No dust, no wind, but we'd have other issues. Imagine 50 years from now, threads on the E-Forest complaining about prevalence of mosquitoes and asking participants how they address that issue. And of course, the requisite goblins telling the whiners to stay home if they don't like being eaten alive and exposed to West Nile Virus...
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BAS
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Post by BAS » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:12 pm

Forest...? On the one hand, it would be hard to have sprawling structures, drive large art cars, and, if virgin forest, access could be an issue. On a different hand, building stuctures up in trees could be fun, subtlness would be easier (and perhaps more encouraged), and there are remote camping areas (Double Cabin is one my dad likes to go to camp, and is rather remote-- and mountainous).

A weird idea for a location just came into my head: an old iron mine in the Upper Peninsula! Some of them have vast open areas well underground, plus many differerent levels. (And many levels underwater since the pumps were turned off many years ago when the mines were shut down....) I don't know if any of them are available for rent, but one of them would certainly be an unusual location!


B.
"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.
Do things that have never been done."
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Post by Steven bradford » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:52 pm

Because holding the event on BLM land means dealing with only one governmental agency.

This was tried in 97, holding the event on private land. It made everything much more complicated and expensive.
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theCryptofishist
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Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:22 am

BAS wrote: if virgin forest,
I guess I don't have a problem with using compromised land. Badly logged or over grazed depending on the other issues.

Just a thought.
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BAS
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Post by BAS » Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:40 am

I'm still wondering what it would be like to hold BM underground. (I don't know at the moment where my books which talked about the old iron mines are at since my move, unfortunately.)

B.
"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.
Do things that have never been done."
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gyre
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How about a little fire, scarecrow?

Post by gyre » Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:21 pm

Burning Man in a caldera of a relatively quiet volcano would be fun and in keeping with the fire theme.
For excitement, how about Nyiragongo?
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