Does anyone go to BM WITHOUT the expectation to have sex?

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
helitack
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Post by helitack » Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:14 pm

Is the original poster asking permission to fuck around or are we going to argue the merits of condoms for disease reduction?

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Post by transgirl » Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:40 pm

I think I'm kinda asking permission to do the exact opposite: not go just to fuck.

Reading around, it seems like I'd almost be "out of place" if I didn't act all sexually free and go screwing random dirty dust covered hippies.

No offense.

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Post by Traveller » Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:48 pm

helitack wrote:Is the original poster asking permission to fuck around

The way I read the question was "will people get mad at me if I don't have sex".

or are we going to argue the merits of condoms for disease reduction?

No, but we might argue the merits of you working on your reading comprehension skills. Nobody I can think of has disputed the fact that using a condom will reduce the probability of AIDs transmission. What I take issue with is the foolish if popular misconception being promoted by a bullshitting troll on this thread, that using a condom means that one doesn't have to worry about the disease at all, and that we can all safely and sensibly go back to bed hopping a la the 1970s.

That's like saying that because seat belts reduce the incidence of traffic accident mortality, that drunk driving is now a good idea, just so long as everybody keeps their seatbelts on. That's sloppy thinking and it's just plain stupid. Reducing a risk is not the same thing as eliminating it, or coming close to doing so.

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Post by Bin Noddin » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:03 pm

transgirl wrote:Reading around, it seems like I'd almost be "out of place" if I didn't act all sexually free and go screwing random dirty dust covered hippies.
Not so - do what's right for you, not what others may be pressuring you to do. You're free.
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helitack
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Post by helitack » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:13 pm

transgirl wrote:I think I'm kinda asking permission to do the exact opposite: not go just to fuck.

Reading around, it seems like I'd almost be "out of place" if I didn't act all sexually free and go screwing random dirty dust covered hippies.

No offense.
If you are not old enough, or mature enough, to not give a shit what other people think, then maybe BM is not for you I have never seen people ostracised or otherwise made to feel bad because they are not "up to fuck" at the burn. If you bend to the percieved peer pressure, to thine own self be true, be responsible for your own thoughts and actions.

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Post by Traveller » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:25 pm

transgirl wrote:I think I'm kinda asking permission to do the exact opposite: not go just to fuck.

Reading around, it seems like I'd almost be "out of place" if I didn't act all sexually free and go screwing random dirty dust covered hippies.

No offense.

None taken. I can easily see why you'd feel that way. With the disclaimer that I've never been female, so I can't ever have had the experience of being a woman walking alone at Burning Man, my perception is that your experience on the Playa will be vastly different than what your experience on ePlaya might suggest. I think you'll find that both men and women will respect you and your right to say "no", and knowing that your wishes in that area are part of your commitment to a relationship is only going to positively impress them. Please remember that any creep on earth can sign up for this board, whether he ever has or ever will be at Burning Man or not. What you see here is a reflection on the board, not on the event.

No, we don't all go with the expectation that anybody will be sleeping with us at the event, much less any particular somebody of our choice, or necessarily even the desire that this happen. While some of you folks are fairly deep in denial on this, AIDS has raised the stakes, and that becomes an issue. Even in the absence of any incurable STDs floating around, though, there would still be the fact that these are people that one just met, and probably won't see again. How deeply can one feel for one's partner, if one goes that route at BRC, and how much of a future can two burners build in the five days they'll have together? As much as many may like to posture to the contrary in threads like this, the reality is that BRC is hardly the mass orgy that some would imagine it as being, and most of us are perfectly happy that it isn't.

Picture a small, very relaxed, clothing optional city whose community life centers around artistic self-expression in its various forms. Clothing optional does not mean nudity required - if you wish to go through your five days wearing a parka, I'd recommend you find some way of cooling down, but face to face, people will by and large respect that choice, and in general that is what is expected out of you - be assertive enough to be comfortable being who you want to be, regardless of whether or not that's what others want you to be. Yes, you'll fit in, just as long as you make one little change. Please don't ask the rest of us for permission on things like this. We're nobody. Your body, your heart, your company - it's what you want that counts, and it isn't anybody's place to give any of these things of yours away, but yours.

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Post by transgirl » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:37 pm

Picture a small, very relaxed, clothing optional city whose community life centers around artistic self-expression in its various forms.
This is the picture that is driving me across an ocean and through the desert for hours. Sounds facinating.

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Post by transgirl » Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:21 am

If you are not old enough, or mature enough, to not give a shit what other people think, then maybe BM is not for you I have never seen people ostracised or otherwise made to feel bad because they are not "up to fuck" at the burn. If you bend to the percieved peer pressure, to thine own self be true, be responsible for your own thoughts and actions.
I wouldn't say I care what other people think. In the end I do what I want. I was simply curious if other people were attending who are not intentionally looking for sex. From the responses of this thread it appears there are. I'll admit I was worried that if I didn't get into the "exploring sexual boundries" thing, then i might be seen as more an observer than participant. That would be an uncomfortable situation. But I'm not saying that I would change my behavior just to "fit in" with the BM culture.
When someone is suddenly in an unfamiliar culture, they are very aware of their own behavior and how it is viewed in these new norms. It's natural to question if mine will be appropriate since BM sounds like it has its own unique culture.

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RE: Just going to have sex?

Post by kathelovesjosh » Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:29 am

my husband goes every year (josh shumate) and he goes for the art, not to have sex. He thinks girls that go to bm just to have sex are trashy. Plus the dry desert, and the alkline, and the dust doesnt make for great conditions.

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Post by Curmudgeon » Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:11 am

Oblique wrote:The viscosity of semen is pretty damn high.
You are conflating two very different issues - that of surface tension and that of viscosity. For example, one can easily see that laundry detergent is far more viscuous than water, simply by pouring a cap of the stuff into one's wash. By doing so, one slightly increases the viscosity of the wash water. Nevertheless, the addition reduces the surface tension of that very same wash water. Detergent is a surfactant. Reducing surface tension is how it does its work. Your response to the point about surface tension ensuring that one can't get visible water flow through microscopic tears is, therefore, a non sequitir, one that demonstrates the fact that you don't even know what surface tension is.

This much is high school level physics, and yet we see visible noncomprehension on this point from somebody who claims to have a PhD, and this is not the first time we've seen such a failing out of you on this thread. One would have to be at least a little mentally slow to not see an incongruity in this, even if you are doing what charlatans have long been renowned for doing - making points with your audience by telling them what they want to hear.

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No not really

Post by EricMagic » Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:19 pm

I did not have the expectation to get laid. I love sex, but I love the meeting new people, connecting of like minds, the sexual tease and hints, the artwork, dancing, and wild new ideas. In reality even though there is a sex theme it can be mostly talk and tongue in cheek, or a lot of tease; and there seemed to be a great deal of mismatches (sexually) between different people that often prevents actual sex from taking place.

In short, BURNINGMAN is not all about sex for many people.
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Post by oshea73 » Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:01 pm

I'd have to agree with EricMagic. Though there may be the thought of the possibility of getting randomly laid out on the playa...I think the probability is lower than one might expect. Unless, of course...you are involved in an activity (Camp Soulmate, Camp Swingers, etc) that would easily provide you with that possible outcome. I also saw an awful lot of couples going to and from the festival which would lead me to believe that many of those that were there showing public affection were previously in relationships as well.

In tune with what EM said...it is a very sexually charged event, but not always necessarily how the outer ring, or public, might assume. There is alot of flirting, dancing, smiling, etc...hints of attraction...playfulness if you will. I don't doubt by any means that it sometimes leads to something more, but I also do not think it is nearly as often as people on the outside may believe.

Personally, though I've been in a relationship both times I've gone, through my own personal observations/experiences and the experiences of the many guys that I've camped with (most outgoing and good looking fellas) it seems in so many cases that unless one constantly goes out with that intent in mind...the chances are pretty slim. And...if they're going out and about SOLELY for that reason...than they probably aren't there for the right ones. Burning Man is a place of so many wonders and beautiful things...it would be a shame to direct all of ones energy to just trying to get laid in a random setting. Sex is phenominal and exciting, but so are the 10000 other things going on out on the playa. It truly is an experience that cannot be matched...an orgasm in of itself.

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Post by Mr. Mellow » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:17 pm

I'm a senior burner. Sex is great, but I'm in a committed relationship and go each year without my partner with the expectation to remain faithful and always do (despite some rather alluring temptations set before me). So, don't worry that you won't fit in if you're celibate at BM. Anyone who tells you otherwise is full of shit.

For those who play, remember HIV/AIDS as well as many nasty STD's remain a problem. Use a condom and practice safe sex.
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Post by transgirl » Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:46 am

Well I just got back, and i have to say, I found Burning Man to be not at ALL a massive orgy, not even close actually. I only saw one couple having sex in the open, and even then it was pitch black out on the playa where they were. And since that was the only sex I saw all week it was actually kinda hot. Not that I stood there and stared. i glanced and kept on truckin.

I didn't find it overly sexually charged either....a good amount sure. But I wasn't at all uncomfortable, and not once did I feel pressured in any way. Most people seemed to be, like I was, totally immersed in the thousands of bizarre, facinating activities swirling around us to be very focused on sex.
More overwhelming, I found, was dealing with the sensory overload and trying not to trip out the first night in the most amped-up environment I've ever been in.

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Post by Abductor » Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:51 pm

I actually went with the goal of not trying to hook up. I just didn't want to deal, and focus instead on having a great time. I saw a lot of girls I wouldn't have minded knowing better, but it was really nice to go and not try to hook up.

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Post by INSANEPOOKIE » Sat Sep 09, 2006 3:41 am

My GF didn't go and I had no intention of hooking up with any females (or males) simply because there was lots and lots and lots of party happy gals around.

Though the desire to have sex is a constant and annoying at times reoccuring multiple times a day build up it really isn't that difficult to ignore IF you actually care about your significant other (and an open relationship isn't the goal) there should not be a problem.

Let see. One way that I look at it is simple as this: If some assclown pisses you off or lets say some assclown pisses me off. I gain no enjoyment from bashing in someone elses face to release whatever rage I feel. It has to be that specific person being inflicted upon or it isn't the same.

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Post by Mister Jellyfish Mister » Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:56 pm

I've been getting laid a lot lately. I must be back from Burning Man.
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Post by spectabillis » Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:18 pm

Traveller wrote:No, but we might argue the merits of you working on your reading comprehension skills.

and fair warning, you want to keep in mind the moderators have not forgotten your lack of certain social skills and habit of getting into board conflicts.

unfortunately our interactions with you will all be posted publically since the private message functions are not working.

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Post by Traveller » Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:50 am

spectabillis wrote:
Traveller wrote:No, but we might argue the merits of you working on your reading comprehension skills.

and fair warning, you want to keep in mind the moderators have not forgotten your lack of certain social skills and habit of getting into board conflicts.

You are in no position to be lecturing me about social skills, alkie. It is a bizarre fluke that a troll such as yourself would be made into a moderator, given your lengthy history of truly outrageous behavior on this board, but if you think that you're going to get deference out of me because of an appointment that minor, you've lost what little you have in the way of a mind. I have a life outside of Burning Man and the Internet, and I damn well am not going to take any crap out of somebody I wouldn't be seen in public with, just to hold onto a BBS membership.

In this case, we have somebody who has literally lied about what I posted, doing so in support of somebody who has resorted to quotation out of context in order to support a dangerous piece of misinformation - and here you are, sabre rattling in response to a gentle correction to what common sense should tell anybody geninely is inappropriate behavior. I would ask where your ethics were, had the incident with Rockdad not made the answer to that question clear - they're to be found on the more fragrant side of a manhole cover. We, quite incredibly, had you speaking in support of a defamation campaign carried out against a fellow user by Rockdad, in retaliation for that user having done nothing more than point out the fact that Rockdad had lied about what a cited source had said. This is behavior unworthy of a regular user, much less a mod and you should have been stripped of your title on the spot.

Some may have forgotten the incident, but my personal archives most certainly do remember it. I was willing to leave this one alone, but if you want to revive that old fight, we can go there. A rebuttal page for this one is easily written, and for reasons I won't pretend to understand, search engines love my site. If it comes to that, all of your private messages will be going up, and some of them are golden.


unfortunately our interactions with you will all be posted publically since the private message functions are not working.


Considering what a sneaky little shit you've been throughout, that's probably for the best.

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Post by spectabillis » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:22 am

that was pretty much the only warning you will get before i start pulling your posts, and each one of those will be an indicated strike before the 'out' will be to start blocking your ipaddr and the ipaddr's of your sock accounts.

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Post by Kinetic IV » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:57 am

SB's elevation to moderator was through community suggestion to the powers that be. It was the majority's decision at the time, it got approved, end of story. And IMHO he's been a damn good moderator handling many things behind the scenes that most users don't see. Also IMHO elevating AntiM and SB to moderator status was one of the best changes this board has ever had made in the many years I've been on it in one form or another.

Also what's up with the use of the word "alkie"?
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Post by mars » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:02 am

Does anyone go to BM without the expectation to have sex?

Yes.
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Post by Traveller » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:10 am

spectabillis wrote:that was pretty much the only warning you will get before i start pulling your posts, and each one of those will be an indicated strike before the 'out' will be to start blocking your ipaddr and the ipaddr's of your sock accounts.
Then I won't post to these boards at all, Spec, because the standards of moderation under your administration have become visibly insane. I notice that you're back to the mudslinging conspiracy theory about everybody from Netsource Communications really, secretly being me, hiding out in Olympia Fields of all places, I believe it was If you want to ban the users of a entire midsized ISP based on something like this, be my guest. ePlaya is no longer much of a loss, and I won't be cheating my fellow Netsourcers out of anything other than a headache.

I'm out of here.

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Post by spectabillis » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:28 am

the problem is you make the same accusations everytime you return, and you always return - eventually.

me? i dont mind that much animosity aimed at me anymore because i am both used to it, and i have learned to start certain proceedures like take notes, multiple traceroutes of peoples ipaddrs, multiple moderator involvement, and making sure some org people are kept in the loop.

- you are observer/traveller as well as a few other sock accounts.
- you persistantly deny this despite having traced down your ipaddr and service provider on dozens of occasions.
- you have a proven track record of instigating things then denying any involvement in hostilities.
- you have been dishonest on more than one occasion.
- you have a nasty habit of stalking people in the attempt to misuse personal information in a very negative fashion.
- you have not only burned all bridges with every admin and moderator on this board, but there is no longer a single llc org person who wants to hear from you.


and you are just about to get strike one.

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Post by Kinetic IV » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:46 am

Image

All this drama is too much! Damn, now I see why everyone hated me so much when I pulled this crap.

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communication is key

Post by Uncle Fishbits » Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:25 pm

[quote="AntiM"] do what you will (safely) and keep your mouth shut, no need to hurt the ones you love. Sigh, I am a much different person thse days![/quote]

Oh my gosh.. your resigned consternation is the exact catalyst to relive my battle with the same thing. That... "I cannot believe I am saying this, oh... how I have changed"

I am a free person... I am open and in love with life and the people I am lucky enough to share that with... we have intense and mutually enjoyable times.

but society doesn't really work that way... and beyond making life sadly complex for those you love.... the one I am with now is a monogamist... strictly. This is rare for me, and I adore her. So I asked her at one point... a very traditional gal...

It is about the *intent*. What is your *intent*?

I say... Whether or not your partner would define it as cheating... do *YOU* think it is cheating. Because I truly believe (this is how I am a different person)...

1) to limit yourself and hold back from life would be a travesty... to stop experiences??? It just doesn't make sense
2) that sex and mutual sexuality (provided the healthy communication channels are firmly in place) is not cheating, necessarily
3) that if you are unfaithful in traditional senses, but not so much in the complexities of one's mind... telling "that" someone is worse than better, because it doesn't actually solve anything. It isn't fair to her, but I do not define sexuality as cheating. It is if my mind wanders... not my body. But ....

***UNLESS IT IS MUTUAL, WHATEVER YOU BELIEVE DOES NOT MATTER***

So.. in that vain... I need to figure this stuff out. It is all OK when you have previously communicated these thoughts. But when you realize it in the middle of the first 6 months... wow, it becomes more complex.

Shouldn't be... I assume that is the weakness of character??? Anyhoo...
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Post by Uncle Fishbits » Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:34 pm

[quote="transgirl"]
I didn't find it overly sexually charged either.....[/quote]

And it is for me... every year.

And it isn't for families of four.

And it is for the three bisexual women that go.

And it isn't for the nerdy guy into tech and light art.

IT IS WHAT YOU MAKE OF IT... to each thine own experience be true.

But man... I don't mind the sexy bits at all...
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Post by Toolmaker » Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:49 pm

To address the actual topic:

I am going to Burning Man to meet new people of ALL sorts (though I may avoid the raver types). I do NOT plan on sexual activity. I feel Burning Man should be different for everyone based upon their reasons for participation. The most important thing is that you come PREPARED to be self sufficient. The best part of my exp. at Burning Man 2007 will be all the new folks I plan on having tea with.

To address the feelings of Traveller:

I will not miss you if you stop posting, in fact I am sure it will be a breath of fresh air for all. It is one thing to disagree with someones post.. but inappropriate to cross the line and resort to insults. For you to have problems with a radically inclusive society/group/org such as this you may want to consider a change in diet and/or lifestyle. Maybe you can spend the year working on the upcoming theme Green Man! Convert a diesel vehicle to also run on veg oil! I find that when I have enough to keep my mind and body occupied I usually do not have enough time for internet warfare.

-Dave

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Post by Uncle Fishbits » Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:43 pm

I have absolutely no idea what in the hell anyone is talking about at this point.

Huh? Is the intraweb thingy on computers now?

Wow... I know I am an idiot with collecting records... but I doubt I have ever dorked out that much. I guess if you work in it, you become it.

I just don't understand.

I do enjoy the topic of sex, however... let's get back to sex.

[quote="Traveller"]
Then I won't post to these boards at all, Spec, because the standards of moderation under your administration have become visibly insane. I notice that you're back to the mudslinging conspiracy theory about everybody from Netsource Communications really, secretly being me, hiding out in Olympia Fields of all places, I believe it was If you want to ban the users of a entire midsized ISP based on something like this, be my guest. ePlaya is no longer much of a loss, and I won't be cheating my fellow Netsourcers out of anything other than a headache.

I'm out of here.[/quote]
Uncle Fishbits
Ubib Dubium Ibi Libertas
"Maturity is a bitter diasppointment,
for which no remedy exists, unless
laughter can be said to remedy
anything".
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NOT WAR
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Re: Does anyone go to BM WITHOUT the expectation to have sex

Post by nilda » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:36 am

[quote="transgirl"]Just curious if anyone who is already in a relationship (and their partner isn't going) go to BM and hold BACK from having sex? Are you just expected to be sexually free without a care in the world?

This is my first BUrning Man, and I am in a relationship, but my fiance is off on a ship in the Pacific. If the situation were reversed, and he was going without me, i just don't think I could handle it, cause I would instintively know he was going and getting laid. Or maybe you just have to accept that most likely your significant other will probably be with new partners and that what happens on the playa stays on the playa?[/quote]

This is a curious topic to me. Life brings many opportunities to "have sex". Why is BM any different than other "sensuous" situations in life? I think it all boils down to what you want to do and sometimes knowing you will need to deal with later repercussions, if any. Say "yes" if that is what you want or say "no" if you don't.

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