Saddam Hussein Death Sentence Controversy

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Deleted Barkeep
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Saddam Hussein Death Sentence Controversy

Post by Deleted Barkeep » Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:23 pm


helitack
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Post by helitack » Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:28 pm

Other than the fact that GW finished what his daddy started as a favor to his benefactors the Saudi royal family, no.
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Post by mdmf007 » Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:28 pm

I used to be a big proponent of the death penalty in the US, but with new technology, better investigations and the archives that the internet have become. Many people sentenced to death in america and proven innocent posthumously - so no I do not endorse the death penalty for most crimes. I believe life in jail / no parole is a far worse punishment anyways.

In Iraq, Saddam' public execution will provide a lot more closure for victims of his maniacal, totalitarian, brutal, and oppressive regime. If he is allowed to fester in a jail he will only be a source of controversy for decades to come, garnering support and possibly seeing freedom some day.

The mindset of an iraqi person is slightly different than here in america. Death is a normal, and expected outcome for criminals of such egregious crimes it is an insult to his victims to not execute him. FOr that reason I expect to see Saddam hanging from the gallows, or shot in the head in a public execution.

Crimes Against Humanity, Genocide, Rape, and Murder were what this man knew, and he will get what he deserves.

There is a small room in Hell with faces like, Hitler, Pol Pot, Millosovich; Uday, Qusay, and Saddam.

The only reason I can see to keep him alive is to allow him to go insane in jail and die ona cold hard concrete floor decades from now.

later all - see you in August
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Post by skygod » Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:54 pm

I can really see the "banality of Evil" in the recent Saddam videos. He is a sad old man waiting to die.
I don't like Jesse Jackson much, but he said something good the other day. He said:
"If we believe in the death penalty, that makes us all murderers. But if we believe in life sentences, that makes us all Gay Dungeon-Masters"

!!
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Post by Isotopia » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:21 am

Your thoughts?
I don't see a controversy here.

Guilty as charged.

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Post by EvilDustBooger » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:27 am

...my guess is he will croak unexpectedly,
Kenny Lay style, before the sentence is executed.

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Apollonaris Zeus
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:35 pm

mdmf007 wrote:

There is a small room in Hell with faces like, Hitler, Pol Pot, Millosovich; Uday, Qusay, and Saddam.
How do you know? Or have you been there?

There is no Hel!

he must suffer in this world for you all are absolved in the next!

AIIZ

PS- right after Rumsfelt resigned the number of Iraqi deaths shoot up to 150,000 after Bush is gone it will shot up to over 600,000

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Post by skygod » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:03 pm

Uday and Qusay both pulled the gold Wonka ticket in the Punk Lottery.
"It will seem difficult in the beginning. But everything seems difficult in the beginning."- Musashi

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Dork
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Post by Dork » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:05 pm

I have problems with the idea of toppling a government, installing a puppet regime, and directing them to try and fry the former leader. It should have been handled by an international war crimes commission. I shed no tears over Saddam, but I worry what things would be like if this sort of thing were to become an accepted practice.

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Post by Lassen Forge » Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:44 am

In a shocking statement, gving anguish to those who folow the Apokiliptik way, and the true Killbuck line, Apollonaris Zeus wrote:

There is no Hel!
Oh yes there is...

He was one of the people (the "gang of 3") who planned Aokiliptika in 04 and brought it to reality in '05. And will be there again, as long as his truck quits being a snit and breaking down. I have the pictures!!!

OH! I thought you wrote HELI!

Damn. my bad. >giggles<

On to other things...

Dork wrote:I have problems with the idea of toppling a government, installing a puppet regime, and directing them to try and fry the former leader. It should have been handled by an international war crimes commission. I shed no tears over Saddam, but I worry what things would be like if this sort of thing were to become an accepted practice.
Um... it's BEEN accepted practice for quite a few millenium now. Monarchies practice it quite well. As do other major power structures. The victor in war annihilates the former power structure. You think the "war crimes" trials in the late 40's (Nurenburg comes to mind) was any different? The "international" council was nothing near fair - it was put on by the allied powers who won WW2, defense was provided by the people bringing charges, etc....

Had the war gone the other way Germany would have done the same to us for the carpet bombing and annihilation of 1,000,000 civillians in our carpet firebombing campaigns over their country. As it was... we hung the major players in Germany and Japan, we literally changed the government in those 2 countries to prevent them from being a threat.

And re history?

The funny thing... Have you ever heard the saying, "Those who forget (or ignore, or obliterate) history are doomed to repeat it"? Ask people about WW2 and the issues and the world situation then and no one seems to remember. Or the Russian government in the mid teens and again in the mid 80's? Or the global financial situation in the mid-1800's and early 1930's and early 2000's?

Brings up a phenomenon called the 70 year cycle - if you go back roughly every 70 years from any point, you will find remarkable similarities in each "band" of time connected by that cycle. And using that it makes it easy to see what will prolly happen in the next decade or 2 - by looking back 50-60 years. What happened in the world 70 years ago? See any... similarities??

Have a nice day...

bb

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Post by K-mom » Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:26 pm

But what happened 70 years ago is the very reason we have things like international war crime commissions. I think what the Dork was saying, and I agree, is the procedures here weren't correct. Very little that's transpired on the international scene in the past few years has followed established procedures. If we want to learn from our past, the worst we could do would be to accept it just cause its happened before.
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Post by skygod » Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:31 pm

His death won't make me happy.
I wish I knew if his death would make things better, or worse.
"It will seem difficult in the beginning. But everything seems difficult in the beginning."- Musashi

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Post by joel the ornery » Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:47 pm

FED MAX... marion, illinois... just a cell away from manuel noriega.... never to be heard from again.

gee, that seems an odd position from a death penalty supporter.
!!

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Post by skygod » Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:20 pm

If Saddam was a pinata we could beat him 'till candy came out!
"It will seem difficult in the beginning. But everything seems difficult in the beginning."- Musashi

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Apollonaris Zeus
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:12 am

joel the ornery wrote:FED MAX... marion, illinois... just a cell away from manuel noriega.... never to be heard from again.

gee, that seems an odd position from a death penalty supporter.
!!
wasn't he involved in that Iran-Contra affair and running drugs back into the states with the Reagan admin, DEA, CIA, our armed force and intelligence?

Yes and wasn't Robert Gates who GW bush has picked to be the next SEcretary of the Department of Defense. Oliver North said he was involved or knew of the Iran-contra affair! I wonder what he'll be covering up in Iraq: like the missing billions that are unacountable and may have been used to buy US support from powerful Iraqis!

AIIZ

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Re: Saddam Hussein Death Sentence Controversy

Post by ZaphodBurner » Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:10 pm

Deleted Barkeep wrote:Story: http://www.wral.com/news/10244110/detai ... l&psp=news

Your thoughts?
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

7 p.m. Pacific Time. I'll be loading in my PA and doing a soundcheck. He'll be dancing the gallows ballet.

-c
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Post by Deleted Barkeep » Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:09 pm


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Post by Bob » Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:38 pm

If this really is about Burning Man politics, I'm all for it.
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Post by gyre » Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:39 am

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/ ... 2E25DF.htm



a little real terrorism
not for most
http://farisqc.com/PF/beheading.htm

the source
mypetjawa has some of the milder hobbies of Saddam as well

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Post by Ugly Dougly » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:47 am

My opinion:
He's dead, Jim.

Might as well stop thrashing about.

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Post by gyre » Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:25 am

It shouldn't be forgotten that Saddam was our creature.


This is a site that says they are an Iranian website dedicated to expose the true face of Islam.
They have explanations of passages used to justify and misinterpret various things related to Islamic justice.
They are not only focussed on Iraq.
I strongly recommend not opening the video.
There are worse things than executions on some.
The site seems to have great educational potential anyway.

http://www.efsha.co.uk

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Post by Deleted Barkeep » Sun Dec 31, 2006 5:14 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:My opinion:
He's dead, Jim.

Might as well stop thrashing about.

Can't argue with your facts, but I think your conclusion needs work. Yeah, the guy's dead and we can't change that, but we can always take a look at what we did and think about what we did. Or said.

We seem to have a general agreement that Hussein was a bad guy. I don't disagee, but I have another question or two to kick around. At what point does a desire to see justice done cross the line and turn into sadism? Are some of us maybe enjoying this a little too much? Is there maybe something a little distasteful about seeing an execution being celebrated? When we see somebody being forced to take responsibility for his crimes, is it better for us to regret the bad choices he made, or for us to rejoice in his suffering?

How much payback is enough? What happens to us when we decide that no amount of payback is enough?

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Post by geekster » Sun Dec 31, 2006 5:35 pm

I believe life in prison without the possibility of parole is more sadistic and horribly cruel. Death is a kinder sentance.
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Post by geekster » Sun Dec 31, 2006 5:47 pm

It shouldn't be forgotten that Saddam was our creature.
Well there is a product of little thought. I flatly disagree with that statement. Are you aware of the actions he took on his very first day as leader of Iraq? Actually, in his very first minutes?

Those first few moments set the scene for the remainder of his rule.
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Our Man in Iraq

Post by gyre » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:26 pm

It was exactly what I meant.
We didn't conjure saddam forth from the swirling mists,
but we were well aware of what he was.
The decision to support saddam was made with good intentions.
I doubt I need to tell you how much money was poured into his regime.
It should not be forgotten.
Whether his regime would have survived without our help, I don't know.
But I doubt it.
He was probably the worst military strategist in history.
We knew that too.

As for cruelty, I think the traditional way of dealing with someone of his calibre in that region would be prison with torture, for as long as they could keep him alive.
The worst thing I heard of him doing was using a large industrial meat grinder and lowering people slowly into the grinder, over hours or days.
He may have been relieved to die the way he did.

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Post by geekster » Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:53 am

Our support for Saddan was just enough to ensure a stalemate in the war with Iraq. We prevented him from being overrun by the Iranians but didn't give him so much support that he could overrun them either. That war eventually ground to a stalemate. In that sense our support for him was a stretegic success. We didn't want him beating the Iranians, nor did we want the Iranians to beat him. We played both sides of that, actually. We gave Saddam intelligence information and possibly some minor aid and we gave the Iranians some upgrades for their air defense network to counter Iraq's air force.

Our "support" was minimal, designed only to ensure that neither side was able to dominate the other, and succeeded.
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Post by joel the ornery » Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:13 am

Bob wrote:If this really is about Burning Man politics, I'm all for it.
ditto.

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Post by Deleted Barkeep » Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:02 pm

joel the ornery wrote:
Bob wrote:If this really is about Burning Man politics, I'm all for it.
ditto.
First I counted the number of threads on this board that had nothing to do with Burning Man, and then I counted the number of times I saw one of you two objecting before this thread showed up (never), and what it added up to was you two looking for an excuse to complain. "I don't like where this discussion is going politically, so I'm going to try to get it shut down" is pretty damned chickenshit, Joel, and I think we both know that's where you and Bob are going with this. Let me guess - a spam complaint to the mods comes next, right?

Would you be so gracious as to allow everybody else to get back to the subject, or do you two clowns want to continue telling people what they are or are not allowed to talk about?

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