I need help!

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:59 pm

hi

nobody here knows me yet so please excuse the intrusion. It feels slightly voyeuristic to be looking in on what ur all writing and not contributing in some way myself...no spectators right!

I need your help. I'm at uni and currently struggling to write a literature review and research paper on the Burning Man festival. I feel like I've bitten off more than i can chew and i'm choking on it. Burning Man just blows my mind!!

If you don't mind i'd like to put my proposed topic question to u and get some feedback:

Is Burning Man an example of Utopianism?

Short but sweet.

Looking forward to ur replies. :D

jpx · Post by **jpx** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:03 pm

define utopianism?

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:30 pm

Kishan Kumar wrote:

"Utopia is nowhere (outopia) and it is also somewhere good (eutopia). To live in world that cannot be but where one fervently wishes to be: that is the literal essence of utopia. To this extent utopia does share the quality of a dream. To deny that would be to miss one of the most powerful sources of its appeal. But were that all it was, were utopia no more than a waking dream, we would have no more than a passing interest in it."

Utopia exists tantilizingly on the edge of possibility, somewhere just beyond the boundary of the real.

It is a place of abundance, not lack. A place of mutual regard and respect. A place of liberty and justice. A place of harmony with nature and the natural.

Should I continue?

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:48 pm

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:31 pm

Me2 wrote:hi

nobody here knows me yet so please excuse the intrusion. It feels slightly voyeuristic to be looking in on what ur all writing and not contributing in some way myself...no spectators right!

I need your help. I'm at uni and currently struggling to write a literature review and research paper on the Burning Man festival. I feel like I've bitten off more than i can chew and i'm choking on it. Burning Man just blows my mind!!

If you don't mind i'd like to put my proposed topic question to u and get some feedback:

Is Burning Man an example of Utopianism?

Short but sweet.

Looking forward to ur replies.

Help with a paper is a request that gets made alot here on eplaya. The best advice I can give you is just come to the event. Then you'll have more than enough info. I understand that this may not be helping you this semester, but without you attending, it would be (to use a oft called upon burningman phrase) like trying to describe color to a person who has never had sight.

Edited to add:

I guess Heli really answered your question best.

jpx · Post by **jpx** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:27 pm

Me2 wrote:If you don't mind i'd like to put my proposed topic question to u and get some feedback:

Is Burning Man an example of Utopianism?

Short but sweet.

so if you want my $.02 that's a pretty open question, you'd probably never answer it because the experience will be different for each person. is it utopianism for me, am i being drawn to some glowing etc etc? fuck no. i am coming because edmonton's rave scene, my whole life, feels like it was hit by a neutron bomb. i am taking what i can carry.

on the burning man site there is a section, i think it's called Tales of the Playa, where people write about burning man. you might read through there.

you might rethink your question. thinking back to the rave scene -- oh, my love, my darling, ... -- i don't know, what kind of questions can you ask about a cultural event? i always thought raving came from the same human instinct as Woodstock -- so i always started from How is raving different from woodstock? you might start from there too. How is burning man different from woodstock, what makes it that way, why? you might find a topic like six handshakes down that line of questioning.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:39 pm

My Utopia'd be a bit greener than Lake Lahontan usually is. (Can't wait for the Greening Of the Playa this year!) But the collective (and, to a lesser degree, INDIVIDUAL) mindset is as close as I'll probably ever get, anywhere, anytime.

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:12 pm

It's an attempt at utopianism, and a good example of why it's impossible.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:24 am

It's an attempt at utopianism, and a good example of why it's impossible.

The problem is we all like different things. Some of us like to try to push the buttons of others.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:14 am

No.
And it's not even an attempt.

The org is just riding the tiger.

RingO'Fire · Post by **RingO'Fire** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:49 am

Me2,

I'm a college student too, so I feel your pain. Here's what I would do in your situation.

First off, when I get in a time-crunch on an assignment, I'll often ask one of my buddies who's already done it, "Hey man, how did you do that fucking _______ assignment?" I'll let them show me how do it or, if they'll let me, sometimes (rarely) I may even copy their work. My philosophy on this is "Why re-invent the wheel?" Of course I'll return the favor at other times by helping my buddies with assignments that I've figured out before them (I'm an engineeing student). So, your initial post starting this thread ("Please help...blah blah blah") is kind of like asking your classmate/buddy for help. The only problem is that none of us have already done this assignment (the "Burningman vs. Utopianism" paper), so we can't really help you all that much. Now for the good advice...

Reams and reams and reams of shit have been written about Burningman. You know how to Google, right? You know how to copy and paste, right? You know how to use a thesaurus, right?

Google "Burningman" and "Utopia." Google "Burningman" and "Blog" - Google "Burningman" and whatever - find the shit that's already been written that kind of pertains to this fucking paper that you have to write. Then - copy and paste like a motherfucker! Change it around a bit, "paraphrase" in other words, so that it's not overt plagarism (I guess that would make covert plagarism).

You'll have to add some bullshit of your own, of course, like "In conclusion, the Burningman festival is the quintessential example of 21st-century neo-Utopian revivalism." or some such bullshit. I hope this helps. Good luck!

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:33 am

RingO'Fire wrote:"In conclusion, the Burningman festival is the quintessential example of 21st-century neo-Utopian revivalism."

Hey, I have an idea. Let's have a Larry Harvey Pretentious Prose Contest, like what Larry would right if he were a collage student trying to get a good grade with the least amount of effort and thought. Because, I think it's a pretty good parlor game to write bad papers for lazy students that are also laugh riots.

Fishy retreats to bottom of bowl and starts dreaming.

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:33 pm

The best advice I can give you is just come to the event. [/quote]

I would love nothing more than to attend Burning Man. However, the fact is I'm a full-time student on a part-time wage and I live in Australia...it's just not an option at this point in time.

I've read a lot of "I went there and this is my experience" type articles and i totally get that it has to be seen and experienced first-hand to truely appreciate it...hopefully one day in the not-too-distant future i'll be able to join you.

thanks

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:45 pm

[quote]you might rethink your question

Believe me i have changed my question several times. The only thing i know for sure is that i want to write a paper on Burning Man. Asking why ppl go to BM is like asking 'how long is a piece of string', there are too many variables. I would be a fool to think that the experience isn't totally subjective.

How is it that it can work so well (i'm assuming) if it's very much about self-expression/gratification plus equally about the community as a whole?

I want to get beyond the supperficial party into the deeper philisophical meaning of it all....if there is any. I want to understand.

As far as woodstock goes...i'm sorry but i couldn't give a rats at this point in time.

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:48 pm

[quote="Dork"]It's an attempt at utopianism, and a good example of why it's impossible.

I'd really like to explore this more with u.

Could u give me some reasons why?...please.

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:49 pm

The problem is we all like different things. Some of us like to try to push the buttons of others. :twisted:[/quote]

Please do tell me more!

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:53 pm

[color=green]No.And it's not even an attempt.

The org is just riding the tiger.[/quote[/color]]

I'm sorry but that just make no sense to me...enlighten me.

K-mom · Post by **K-mom** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:57 pm

So did you choose this topic or was it assigned to you?
It seems a little presumptuous to write a paper categorizing a place you've never been.

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:58 pm

My question might be:
"are term papers, written at the university level, about a camping trip, worth the time and effort?"

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:05 pm

[quote="RingO'Fire"]

I'm a college student too, so I feel your pain. Here's what I would do in your situation.

:roll: I'm sorry RingO'Fire, while i really appreciate ur empathy, if u plan on passing college by submitting half-arse papers like that than all u will have is a piece of paper that says u have a degree, but no real knowledge.

The fact is there is not gobbs of academic articles written about Burning Man that have been published...i know i've been searching for ages. Yes the website is extremely helpful and i've read a great deal of it and when i have some spare cash (doesn't happen often) i will probably invest in some books and DVDs from the site. In fact my interest was first sparked by a documentary about BM that aired here in Australia last year.

I don't need someone to write my paper, i just want to know what draws ppl into the desert to celebrate life.

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:14 pm

[quote="K-mom"]So did you choose this topic or was it assigned to you?
It seems a little presumptuous to write a paper categorizing a place you've never been.

Yes i chose the topic. Is it presumptuous?...quite possibly. But it seems that everyone who's been and written about it looses their objectivity. I guess that's one of the effects of being absorbed in a 'foreign' culture/community. I'm not attempting to categorize BM because it seems to defy categorazation. Not doubt that is part of it's appeal. Utopianism is just something else that interests me and i'm exploring it in relation to BM, and vica versa i guess.

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:18 pm

[quote="helitack"]My question might be:
"are term papers, written at the university level, about a camping trip, worth the time and effort?"

If u view it as a 'camping trip' than no probably not. However if u view it as an experiment in community, as self-expression on steriods, as a place outside of the time-space continuum... :wink: than yes, just maybe it is worth exploring on a different front.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:56 pm

of all the people who have mentioned this before, i definately like your attitude best. problem is, one of the more difficult things you can try is describe what burningman is and about. you cant even get the people who attend to agree on a label on themselves.. and thats partially the point. its open, creative, it has the intention to help you make your experience what you want in the chaotic middle of everyone else doing the same. you think thats utopia? maybe... at least i think its a hell of a lot better than the default one everyone is born and thrown into. at least this one lets you have more freedom to make of it what you want.. and that doesnt have to be 'utopian.'

oh, and you might want to put "[/quote]" at the end of the text you are quoting.

BoxaRox · Post by **BoxaRox** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:11 pm

If a chance to get drunk and run around naked isn't utopia, please tell me what is.

a week with seven Saturday nights......

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:00 am

Me2 wrote:No.And it's not even an attempt.

The org is just riding the tiger.[/quote]

I'm sorry but that just make no sense to me...enlighten me.

I mean that this is something that happened without a master plan in steps and pieces.
Some of it taken as a whole is contradictory and makes no sense together.
No one can really control what happens next.
The org could wreck it pretty quickly and is trying not to screw it up and guide things in some directions.
But they are like the person who has got a hold of a tiger.
It's a terrific ride!
Until you try to steer or slow down.

(You should enable BB code on your profile and enable your email.)

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:45 am

at least this one lets you have more freedom to make of it what you want.. and that doesnt have to be 'utopian.'[quote]

But maybe that's the point. The freedom u speak of is utopian by nature. You are free to loose control in a safe environment.....would that be right?...u have a safety net.

(ur right also about the quote thing! i'm hopeless with technology,sorry) :oops:

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:47 am

[quote="BoxaRox"]If a chance to get drunk and run around naked isn't utopia, please tell me what is.

a week with seven Saturday nights......[/quote]

Thanks! I needed a good laugh! :D

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:56 am

The org is just riding the tiger.[quote]

Thanks. Now i'm a little closer to understanding....Although it is something that has just evolved over time and u don't want to mess with it, don't u think it's the gathering together of like-minded ppl in a concerted effort at harmony that gives it a utopian quality.

I think part of the problem here is that 'utopia' tends to have a rather cynical and negative connotation these days. Therefore i may be misunderstood as saying something negative about BM when using it in reference to it.

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:36 am

Me2 wrote:Thanks. Now i'm a little closer to understanding....Although it is something that has just evolved over time and u don't want to mess with it, don't u think it's the gathering together of like-minded ppl in a concerted effort at harmony that gives it a utopian quality.

I think part of the problem here is that 'utopia' tends to have a rather cynical and negative connotation these days. Therefore i may be misunderstood as saying something negative about BM when using it in reference to it.

What makes you think we're like-minded? I suppose we all agree that we'd like to spend a lot of money to visit one of the more hostile environments in the US every Summer. Then there are certain aspects like "leave no trace" or being expressive or what have you that a majority would claim to agree with, but there will always be many who could care less or feel the opposite. The stuff you read on the BM website is the guidelines and beliefs the organizers wish to promote. We all decide for ourselves how we feel about them. If we are truly like minded, they wouldn't have to search vehicles coming through the gate and the rangers would have much less to do.

Looking back at the how the event evolved would help explain why I don't feel utopia is impossible. It was started largely by a bunch of anarchists who just wanted to go burn shit and do whatever they wanted. As the event went on there were enough people who went a little too far, or at least enough people who felt they did. Rules were imposed and fought and enforced inconsistently, people left out of disgust, others kept coming but broke the rules, and people who origionally hated beaurocracy found themselves creating an ever growing one to manage the city.

The only way to have a utopia is for everyone to share the same belief system. But can a society without free will really be a utopia?

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:46 am

It is as much a utopia as any seven day party covered in dust and patrolled by the dea.
Don't forget the frustration and annoyance that goes along with it all.
Schlep your crap 2500 miles in a van and then huddle in a tent all day while the wind blows and your time is wasted on the playa, and then start a utopia discussion.
Or try to decide which once in a lifetime event you are going to ditch to do something else!
Try to do two months worth of stuff in a week and relax enough to enjoy it.

When the event is two months long, as it should be, we'll have a chance to become a true city and we might start working on the utopia part.
We'll get to revisit and maybe recapture some of the feel of the early events.
We'll get to become a neighborhood and enjoy it.
And theme camps will get better because everyone will get to see it, so it's worth more effort.
Anybody can do a week.

I need help!

I need help!

Re: I need help!

could there ever be another beatlemania

Re: I need help!

Re: could there ever be another beatlemania