Business 2.0 Article

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
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AntiM
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Post by AntiM » Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:52 am

...like a Sunday in TJ, it's cheap but it's not free ...

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Post by MikeVDS » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:55 pm

I wonder if "Donkey Fucking" would stir things up as much as this fucking "Green" theme? Probably not as much. If that's the case, it speaks volumes about the crowd that attends.

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Post by itwazed » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:29 pm

Ive been waiting for a "donkey fucking" theme for years..Im so in...

But on to the actual topic at hand I thought I throw my 2 cents in (if its worth that much even). I def got good and agitated when i saw the ad and article; Im def down to sign and help get any petition out.. (maybe set up a signing table right next to the pavilion and use some bull horns?), I also think there is an oppotunity to expose some Marketing and R/D people to the counter culture..maybe this is the Man influncing society in the long run...but part of me feels its very very much the other way around.

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CO2 sins

Post by melo » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:48 pm

This conversation is kind compared to the mountain of criticism Burning Man has gotten for its environmenal cloddishness, mostly from other Burners. BM is trying to clean up its act and share its newfound environmental conscience. To do that, and still keep up its burning ways, requires lots of expensive stuff, available only from companies who already have more product demand than they can possibly meet at this time. Why should they deprive customers of their products in order to bring or donate them to Burning Man? The solar energy industry has been trying for decades to escape the treehugger ghetto. So why should idealistic, environmentally driven, entrepreneurs who labor 7 days a week with little time for vacations, take time away from their work and families to come the playa and get lots of blowback about it? The few cleantech companies I know of who made it through that filter and still want to try to participate in Green Man are completely clear on the noncommercial premise of the event. We're talking about startup companies, not GM or Wal-Mart. And there is such a thing as values-based companies, that operate in a middle zone where idealism is not left behind at the breakfast table each day. It's a waste of your energy to rail against something you imagine might happen. The question is, what are you doing to make a difference for the environment?

And, yes, you guessed it, I'm Melody Haller from Antenna Group. We got into all this because Burning Man asked us to help get the cleantech community interested, not because it serves our best interest.

Anyway, see you on the Playa. If you're not interested in the whole cleantech thing, don't bother to visit the pavilion. The playa is a big place. There's room for everybody to have the Burning Man they want to have.
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Post by blyslv » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:50 pm

Miss Coolette wrote:Hello

I'm from the Antenna Group and this will be my 3rd burn. My boss, Melody Haller, is a wonderful woman. I think you all should save your judgments for August and the playa.

Burning man has always been controversial and always will be. Maybe this is a good way to shake people up a bit.

AND don't be mistaken - BM would never ever allow corporate branding on the playa. That is NOT what is going to happen.

Instead, think of it as environmental technology education. We're a PR firm dedicated to eco tech and Burning Man. We are simply bringing some fascinating and wonderful technology to the playa for education purposes. We're facilitating a conversation between companies trying to make a difference and thousands of people who are really good at participating.

There are a lot of things that go on out there, dirty evil things and I've seen them. There is also a TON of love and positivity as well. I think we should wait and see how the companies choose to represent their technologies before we say this is wrong and how dare you. Burning Man has always thrived on controversy and being radical. Think of this as the next step in that direction. And do some research to find out the real story.

My 2 cents.

Miss Coolette
Thank you for your contribution, but I don't find it very compelling, and I certainly don't appreciate attempting to shut down debate on the issue. Also it uis rather cheeky to pronounce what BM has always thrived on. As the article makes clear, the Org has always thrived on ticket sales and free labor. They are tying to leverage that so companies can start to thrive on that same energy.

It make me feel lied to, like the rehtoric of Larry and the gift/barter economy is all a lie, or a bad joke. from hom Marion was quoted I got the impression that she holds us in contempt.

long before this article came out, we decide not to go this year. We just can't afford it. We were thinking abuot next year, but now, maybe not. And I've already started my own event. This Aug. 4th we're holding a mask-making/burning workshop. Drop me a line if your interested, it's going to be someplace in north-central NM.
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Post by MikeVDS » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:54 pm

I was thinking about this more and our camp has actually considered approaching companies, trying to get discount or free things by using the, "40,000 intelligent bright creative people will see your product" crap. Now that there is an article to point to, I may send out a few e-mails tonight to try to get these things that have been cut because of budget. Sure, we're displaying commercial products, just like almost everyone does there. Very few people make all of their tents, light fixtures, fire pits, ect. It sounds like BMorg just wants to borrow peoples toys while using the "It's good for your business" line. Having articles like this just opens the door so we can reference this and have more credibility.

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Re: CO2 sins

Post by Dork » Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:17 pm

melo wrote:It's a waste of your energy to rail against something you imagine might happen. The question is, what are you doing to make a difference for the environment?
We're not talking about something that might happen - it IS happening, the only open question is how far will it go, and whether it points to a trend. As far as I'm concerned, this has nothing to do with the environment - this is about all of the incredible amount of time and money we've all put into this event and how it's changing in ways some of us don't like. The whole pavilion thing is a major departure, and if nobody says anything it will keep expanding. This year it's alternative energy. Maybe next year it will be products made from renewable materials. Or burner-owned businesses. Or maybe allowing Target to provide infrastructure along with a donation to BRAC and some extra perks for this "retreat" the big wigs go on every year.
And, yes, you guessed it, I'm Melody Haller from Antenna Group. We got into all this because Burning Man asked us to help get the cleantech community interested, not because it serves our best interest.

Anyway, see you on the Playa. If you're not interested in the whole cleantech thing, don't bother to visit the pavilion. The playa is a big place. There's room for everybody to have the Burning Man they want to have.
Yeah, there's all that room out there, who will care about a few billboards?

I'm sorry you're getting caught up in all this, I know you're just trying to do something you believe in. But please don't try to tell us our concerns are not valid.

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Better Coffee?

Post by Token » Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:20 pm

Does this mean we can get higher quality coffee vendor to take over center camp?

Same rules, no logos, no branding, just better coffee.

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Re: CO2 sins

Post by blyslv » Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:00 pm

melo wrote: The question is, what are you doing to make a difference for the environment?
Why is this the question? Why should you or any corporation have the ability to dictate the terms of the debate?

I get the feeling that because you feel that what you are doing is worthwhile and sustainable you are somehow better than the rest. I applaud the manufactuire of solar panels, and I applaud all research to break our dependance on oil and fossil fuels.

But I give a big bronx cheer for a holier than thou attitude or any attempt to stifle debate.


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Post by dana » Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:40 pm

Miss Coolette wrote: a lot of things that go on out there, dirty evil things and I've seen them.
Miss Coolette
Shit!! It happens every year.

I miss all the cool stuff!




Well isn't this just like public radio gradually bringing in larger corporate sponsors who do shorter commercials than regular radio? Ultimately if you decide to "boycott" the big BM, it will continue to undergo whatever changes will happen.

If you build it, they will come.

(whoever they is)

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Post by blyslv » Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:50 pm

dana wrote: Well isn't this just like public radio gradually bringing in larger corporate sponsors who do shorter commercials than regular radio? Ultimately if you decide to "boycott" the big BM, it will continue to undergo whatever changes will happen.
Yes, it's very similar to the "enhanced underwriting." I think it's harmed public radio, it really makes me question their objectivity and balance now that I know they have dollar signs in their eyes.

And i think there is a real fear that the same thing will happen with BM.
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Post by Zane5100 » Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:11 pm

I'm from the Antenna Group and this will be my 3rd burn. My boss, Melody Haller, is a wonderful woman. I think you all should save your judgments for August and the playa.
So saying that you've got 3 burns under your belt is supposed to give some kind of street cred--that you're some kind of veteran that knows what the fuck this event is about?

Glad you have a cool boss--there are not enough of them.

As to saving my judgements, well--you've gotten off on the wrong foot right from the start--especially on how you saying you're going provide education as a PR firm. Assuming that we don't know how to find out about "things" on our own and that we could use your help is really not a good play with this crew.

Oh, and ya might want to define "dirty" and "evil" while you're at it for us poor, uneducated schmucks.
So why should idealistic, environmentally driven, entrepreneurs who labor 7 days a week with little time for vacations, take time away from their work and families to come the playa and get lots of blowback about it?
Gee. I'm really feeling their pain. I guess they don't have to come out. Next question?

How about we look at it from this perspective for shits 'n giggles: someone, with their own money out of pocket, works all year long to build their cool thing to bring out to the playa. They bring it out and people come up to them and ask them how they did it. They would then have a conversation about what was involved.

I don't see how this paradigm is part of whatever the fuck is going to happen in the pavillion.

Granted the pavillion isn't a trade show convention booth--yet. But we're more than a little pissed that the org thinks it needs to go down that path. Granted it's the org's event, but that doesn't mean we have to like everything they do.

You want to sell to this mob? Build something really fucking cool out of your products and then let people ask how you did it. Then bring up whatever the fuck it is you make.
The question is, what are you doing to make a difference for the environment?
Ya see, that's how to really take a hop, skip and jump with the wrong foot. Don't lecture us on how environmentally unfriendly we are and how we need to change. We can figure that out on our own, thank you very much.
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Re: CO2 sins

Post by Fat SAM » Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:50 pm

what are you doing to make a difference for the environment?
I ride a bike instead of driving until my fucking legs fall off, I recycle fastidiously, I eat organic foods, and I'm switching to a vegetarian diet. I reuse everything that's reusable...I'm doing it myself, everyday, presumptuous cow.
We got into all this because Burning Man asked us to help get the cleantech community interested, not because it serves our best interest.
Finally, a business that's not interested in profit. Maybe you should figure out how to run cars on your marvelous philanthropy.
If you're not interested in the whole cleantech thing, don't bother to visit the pavilion. The playa is a big place. There's room for everybody to have the Burning Man they want to have.

My burn, Mel...the Burn I want to have this year...if I go...is going to include RADICAL participation in your camp! It's cool, though. If you don't like it, you know...it's a big playa.

Here's some kind conversation for you, Mel. Suck a fart out of my asshole.
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Re: CO2 sins

Post by EB » Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:26 pm

melo wrote:This conversation is kind compared to the mountain of criticism Burning Man has gotten for its environmenal cloddishness, mostly from other Burners.
Uh, cites? Environmental cloddishness? You mean like the Leave No Trace ethos? The Alternative Energy Zone? Earth Guardians? Hushville? Those clods?
melo wrote: BM is trying to clean up its act and share its newfound environmental conscience.
Again, it's act was neither unclean nor it's 'environmental conscience' newly found. Your flak PR-uber superlative-speak speaks volumes. You're clearly clueless. Burning Man attracts roughly 40,000 people for a week who leave in my estimation less garbage than the Rose Bowl crowd of the same size on a typical fall afternoon. Why don't you set up your pavillion there?
melo wrote: To do that, and still keep up its burning ways, requires lots of expensive stuff, available only from companies who already have more product demand than they can possibly meet at this time. Why should they deprive customers of their products in order to bring or donate them to Burning Man?
It's "burning ways?" Sweet Jesus, lady, you're like the mom who comes down into the basement to check up on the spin-the-bottle game. "How are you kids doing down here with your burning ways? Who's ready for Kool-Aid?" Burning Man keeping its "burning ways" with a lot of "expensive stuff" does mean fuck all to me. I know the event is a lot of things to a lot of different people but, at least for this "burning ways guy" it's not a fucking corporate dog and pony show. I don't care who Larry and the LLC dress it up, I'LL STILL KNOW IT'S FUCKING SOME COMPANY trying to sell me something. BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT COMPANIES DO, Melody.
melo wrote: The solar energy industry has been trying for decades to escape the treehugger ghetto. So why should idealistic, environmentally driven, entrepreneurs who labor 7 days a week with little time for vacations, take time away from their work and families to come the playa and get lots of blowback about it?
Here's some "blowback" for you: This is my camping trip. Take your idealistic, environmentally driven entreprenuers to Epcot Center. Do your pavillion there. I want to see community. If somebody builds/incorporates your solar panels/whatever into their art, I'll be in the front row clapping. What I don't want is some fucking Google Imagineer showing off the lastest BURNING MAN EARTH search engine. If you've been to the event, you'd understand why.
[/quote]
melo wrote: We're talking about startup companies, not GM or Wal-Mart. And there is such a thing as values-based companies, that operate in a middle zone where idealism is not left behind at the breakfast table each day.
Wal-Mart and GM were start up companies once, too, Melody. And give me a break about your 'values companies." Companies exist to make a profit. Go shovel your shit elsewhere. Call a fucking spade a spade, please. If you're going to have companies exhibit their products at Burning Man, Larry, at least have the balls to be upfront about it, logos and all. Don't hide behind this bullshit of a "non-commercial" pavillion approach. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit, my friend. Last year, Da Bomb and Chai Guy were running around saying the sky was falling (and I'm speaking to Larry now, Melo, as I've come to the conclusion of my ranting against you is about as effective as pissing on a spark plug) let in all the tv production crews and that idiot host threw a bunch of eggs at the Man because he thought it was radical.) Boy, were they ever right.
[/quote]
melo wrote:
It's a waste of your energy to rail against something you imagine might happen. The question is, what are you doing to make a difference for the environment?
See "Donkey Fucking" in earlier post. I've reduced my methane donkey fart footprint by over 45% this year. Thank you.
melo wrote: And, yes, you guessed it, I'm Melody Haller from Antenna Group.
Oh, I thougt I was addressing my mom's old douchbag, but that's back in Ohio.
melo wrote: Anyway, see you on the Playa. If you're not interested in the whole cleantech thing, don't bother to visit the pavilion. The playa is a big place. There's room for everybody to have the Burning Man they want to have.
Sadly, it's not big enough. When they write of the downfall of Burning Man, I hope they spell your name right Melody Haller from Antenna Group. Maybe next year's theme will be "Indian Casino Gaming" (FIREWATER MAN!) They have huge PR needs! Cash Cow, baby! Let's agree to meet at the Pai Gow pavillion and talk about the Great Spirit. Text me!
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Post by Lassen Forge » Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:56 am

Someone reminded me this morning about Trolls.

Yep. You guessed it!! (Ya know, I think this is doomed to be the saying of the future, BTW). I'm calling a Troll Alert!

Why?

Hmmm... You have a supposed copuple people from a PR firm who (a) disparage their client (cloddishness? Um Hmmm.), (b) argue with the public (what school did you learn *that* one in?) and then (c) instead of doing damage control, have their management throw gasoline on a fire?

Yeesh.

You ARE kiding, right? Where did ya learn this? If these people were working for my company or representing *my* intrests,, and did what they did above, I'd not only terminate their services, I'd injunct them to shut them up as damage control. Yeah.

This is a "we gotta sway a buncha people to our side of the fence to make this work" thing. NOT the place to wage open combat on your core supporters. This seems, pardon me for saying this, kinda low bid. If you're gonna change the whole ethos of BRC, then you need someone who can sway masses like... hm... Fleishman-Hillard? LCI? Even Burson-Marsteller? Someone who can sway people to your policy, not inflame your core group to riot!

Ergo... my calling a ("You Guessed It" â„¢)Troll Alert.

Have an interesting day. I will!!

bb

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Post by Nickel » Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:46 am

Ron wrote:Many thanks for the link to the article. I had a vague idea of what was going on this year but the details are good. For myself I'll keep an open mind until I get on playa and make an opinion then. Right now I'm luke warm at best. One of the things I've most appreciated about the burn is the absence of corporate messages and knowing that just about everyone who shows up and works is doing so because they want to, rather than because they're being paid to. I'll reserve my final opinion until I see how it all works out but I do have some significant reservations.
Ron
After a nice phone call from Miss C, and some nice clarifications, I now have this exact same standpoint. I'm still a little worried, but I have also come to understand that there are some companies that should be able to "show off tech" without "branding" and "advertising" directly. That article is written by a silly corporate magazine, and doesn't directly express the views of those involved with the pavilion, and thus I'd like to see what it's all about and then decide how I feel for certain.

The technologies expressed are important to the world, and I'd like to see how it all turns out. If there is "branding" and "selling" of any kind going on, I know that burners en masse will be furious. If it is done right, we might be able to effect global change without destroying BM, which would be amazing and wonderful.

I'll post a more comprehensive bit when I'm not on vacation, but I wanted to drop a quick post in here to clarify how I'm feeling on this at the moment.
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Re: CO2 sins

Post by capjbadger » Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:38 pm

Fat SAM wrote:
what are you doing to make a difference for the environment?
I ride a bike instead of driving until my fucking legs fall off, I recycle fastidiously, I eat organic foods, and I'm switching to a vegetarian diet. I reuse everything that's reusable...I'm doing it myself, everyday, presumptuous cow.
We got into all this because Burning Man asked us to help get the cleantech community interested, not because it serves our best interest.
Finally, a business that's not interested in profit. Maybe you should figure out how to run cars on your marvelous philanthropy.
If you're not interested in the whole cleantech thing, don't bother to visit the pavilion. The playa is a big place. There's room for everybody to have the Burning Man they want to have.

My burn, Mel...the Burn I want to have this year...if I go...is going to include RADICAL participation in your camp! It's cool, though. If you don't like it, you know...it's a big playa.

Here's some kind conversation for you, Mel. Suck a fart out of my asshole.
Dude... Sam... You make great debate points. Why do you have to go an ruin it with lame insults? Take the high road. ;)

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Post by Archantael » Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:57 pm

It's so tempting to take the low road...but we've got two of the corporate participants here on the board...and that means we have an opportunity to influence their attitude and opinion just like they're trying to do to us. Opportunity? I think so. Perhaps a change in engagement tactics is in order?

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Post by Teo del Fuego » Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:07 pm

AntiM wrote:...like a Sunday in TJ, it's cheap but it's not free ...


Ahhhh, Steely Dan, my fave.....

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Re: CO2 sins

Post by Fat SAM » Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:30 pm

capjbadger wrote:
Dude... Sam... You make great debate points. Why do you have to go an ruin it with lame insults? Take the high road. ;)

Badger
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Post by Tristan » Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:45 pm

actually the article is also on-line on CNN-Money:

Burning Man grows up

America's biggest counterculture jamboree is also a $10 million business. Now, Business 2.0 reports, it's trying to leverage its brand -- and save the planet -- by (gasp!) inviting corporate participants.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business ... 100117064/

the pdf of the paper version is here:

http://mag1.olivesoftware.com/ActiveMag ... d3e4r5.asp
(BM article on page 66)
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Post by LeChatNoir » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:32 pm

Melody and Miss Coolette…

I should tell you that the eplaya is a different sort of place. Consider it a test to post this stuff here. If you can make it fly on eplaya, the real playa should be just fine. But if this thread (and this is minor to some things I’ve seen here) is all it takes to get your hackles up, then you’ll never make it when you’re coping with this type of thing face to face. Most folks here will give great respect to a well articulated point of view, even if they don’t agree with it. But they don’t shy away from telling you how they feel in clear and often colorful terms.

Regarding the greening of The Man, I’ve done my research and continue to do so, but I’ve yet to see anything that compels me to go along with this without question (and I’m very much for green technology). Much of what I’ve seen so far has been a “you guys just wait and seeâ€
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Post by Fat SAM » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:40 pm

Wow. That was well articulated.
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Post by karine » Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:50 pm

Well, Le Chat is just that kind of guy.

I believe, that the whole Business 2.0 article was poorly written. Tom Price was caught in some words they could hack up.
I actually like Page 17... it kinda makes me laugh.

The Burners Without Borders brought our ideas on the playa INTO ACTION. Hey, Mr. Businessman - Got an extra one of those lying around?Watch what WE can do with that! (party to follow)

so what's the difference at the pavillion?

I don't have a problem with it.
I've been following the "green discussions" going on for MONTHS now-
and I look forward to this year. It will be good when all the creative people who attend see the possibilities of something like "this thing I invented that converts household waste into fertilizer" (or whatever), and we can go home and either do that, or incorporate some of the ideas into our own lives in other ways . . .

and I don't see anybody making a lot of money out of this.
(But I do see myself using what I see!)
AND I THINK IT WILL ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO TAKE IT OFF THE PLAYA.
AND we won't see a logo.

In fact, I think many new successful businesses were started by burners, and may appear NOW as "bad guys because they GO to the event" - but really ... they've been there for a while.

We ALL have jobs.

No one is just a spectator at the event. You are a participant... NEVER a vendor- and while you might teach someone something while you are there... don't expect to-
Or it surely won't happen. Just amaze us with your really cool shit, man.
So I can go home and make some MORE really cool shit.

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Post by Tristan » Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:22 am

in case you missed it, there is also a thread discussing this article on tribe.net:

"John Law was right..."

http://bm.tribe.net/thread/adb25c14-a82 ... 4f1c1d5214
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The new theme is unusually catchy.

Post by bmix » Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:24 am

Not trying to threadjack... I realize this is a very serious topic.

However, someone had to do this.


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Post by DaBomb » Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:25 am

Hey y'all...I'll weigh in 'cuz a friend pointed me to this discussion, although frankly I'm so tired of this. I've received so many messages about this issue, it's not even funny.

Here's my take:

1). This whole issue disgusts me. And it makes me very sad.

2) Burning Man is theirs (the LLC), mine and ours. It belongs to everyone that attends, to every one that's participated, to everyone that's volunteeered. Speaking for myself and qualifying as a volunteer, a member of the community, a participant and a stakeholder in the event and as one who takes the 10 principles to heart, I have a right to claim ownership to my contributions and to call into question the BMorg's actions as well as my continued participation.

3) My issue is that the BMorg behaves like it's still a grassroots movement, cobbles this thing called the "10 Principles" and puts it out there as some sort of lofty mission statement, calls upon thousands of volunteers to give the gift of time, money, sweat equity and other numerous resources to help them put on a for-profit event...but then invites other major corporations and captains of industry to subject to the BMorg's tangible asset: it's "customer base", also known as the "community"...drink... to viral marketing.

It doesn't make me feel any better to say that those who ridiculed me back when I created the Black Rock City Community Collective (see: http://www.savebrc.org/BRC-CC/Home.html) that I feel like I can say "I told you so" but the concerns I had then are the very same issues coming up now.

If anybody wants to weigh in on this on BURNcast, feel free to call the hotline at 206-350-1416 and leave a message I can use in the next episode.
Love & Rockets,
DaBomb
http://www.BURNcast.tv

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capjbadger
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Post by capjbadger » Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:27 am

DaBomb wrote:Hey y'all...I'll weigh in 'cuz a friend pointed me to this discussion, although frankly I'm so tired of this. I've received so many messages about this issue, it's not even funny.

Here's my take:

1). This whole issue disgusts me. And it makes me very sad.

2) Burning Man is theirs (the LLC), mine and ours. It belongs to everyone that attends, to every one that's participated, to everyone that's volunteeered. Speaking for myself and qualifying as a volunteer, a member of the community, a participant and a stakeholder in the event and as one who takes the 10 principles to heart, I have a right to claim ownership to my contributions and to call into question the BMorg's actions as well as my continued participation.

3) My issue is that the BMorg behaves like it's still a grassroots movement, cobbles this thing called the "10 Principles" and puts it out there as some sort of lofty mission statement, calls upon thousands of volunteers to give the gift of time, money, sweat equity and other numerous resources to help them put on a for-profit event...but then invites other major corporations and captains of industry to subject to the BMorg's tangible asset: it's "customer base", also known as the "community"...drink... to viral marketing.
1) Agreed

2) No. It is not ours or yours as much as we'd like it to be. Larry could sell the whole thing lock, stock and barrel to Pakistan for 30 peanuts and a blowjob and there isn't a damn thing any of us could do about it.

3) Yes, the BM org is very hypocritical in it's actions. They have whored out our free labor for their gain.
Don't like it?
Don't volunteer!
The org wants to be a "real" business? Let them! And let them pay for for every drop of sweat from the brow of their workers...

Badger
Arrrggg!! Avast ye fucking fluffy bunny shirtcockers! Haul your drunken hairy fat ass out of our sight or prepare to receive a hot buttered hedgehog fired up your aft quarters!

Honey Badger don't care. Honey Badger don't give a shit!

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Fat SAM
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Post by Fat SAM » Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:40 am

DaBomb wrote:
2) Burning Man is theirs (the LLC), mine and ours. It belongs to everyone that attends, to every one that's participated, to everyone that's volunteeered.
Quite wrong, I'm afraid. Marion makes it quite clear in the article to whom Burning Man belongs...

Oh, and another thought...
Since the spirit of altruism is so pervasive in this venture and since it's all about saving the Earth and not turning a buck, all of the specs and everything will be available for us to take home and recreate, right?
Thanks to Addis, I had more free time.

melo
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:55 pm

I'm a sucker for interaction

Post by melo » Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:47 am

I like talking to people so I'm happy to keep this up. Sorry if I came off as self-righteous--I hate that particular quality, oops. On the other hand, I do believe in what I'm doing.

I didn't enter this conversation to try to influence you folks, at least not anymore than you entered it to influence people.

My daughter's an artist and a dedicated Burner. Yes, I've been to Burning Man. No, I do not pretend to understand this many-legged beast. But having spent a decade in a Zen community, I'm not a fan of rigid adherence to even the finest of philosophies. And having had to make a living for my family in the corporate world, I'm pretty sure there is room at the edges to use the machine without getting gobbled up by it. I don't claim that the process doesn't change me, you, Burning Man or whoever plays in the middle. But we own our own souls. I doubt that Burning Man's soul is so fragile, precisely because of people like you who question everything. I'm a fan of questioning.

(Ok, yes, I'm a Buddhist and yes, there's no such thing as a soul but, hey, you know what I mean).

I didn't join this thread to be preaching. I'm just standing up for my own integrity and that of my firm (I can't be quite as sure about all of our clients but on the whole they're pretty good or they'd choose a slicker PR agency). I'm perfectly willing to engage in conversation and listen to what any of you have to say.

By the way, I have nothing to do with the pavilion, though I hope letting BMorg use my name has helped stimulate proposals. I've done a lot of intros to companies who will be donating or loaning technology, such as the new LED event lighting. My clients and friends are mostly doing installations, like the AmoSphere dome (a glowing earth hemisphere on the playa), a solar carport that will become a glowing tree at night, a biocrude-from-algae demo, some independent films, etc. Some of the scientists will be hanging in our theme camp, the Clean Green Machine, where they will talk with anyone who bothers to seek out our outer-ring location. No PP slides, no logos, just a bunch of brains who have dedicated their lives to renewable energy. None of them have gotten rich yet but I certainly hope they will.
The enemy of truth is not error but certainty.

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