Burning man is dead... no longer worth the time...

fosho5 · Post by **fosho5** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 7:37 pm

Does anybody else out there feel like 'burning man' is no longer 'burning man'! It's simply just gotten too big for its own britches. Too many people, too much structure, too much waste, too much bullshit! I've been attending the event on and off for almost ten years now, and I almost feel like it's no longer worth my time. Am I the only one that feels this way? Does anybody understand where I'm coming from? Help me through this... please reply...

III · Post by **III** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 7:41 pm

yes and no.

the old saw still holds true: burning man is what you make of it.

it's still a wonderful attractor for weird, smart, and creative people. you may have to look a little bit harder than you did a decade ago, but they're still there.

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 8:06 pm

The problem is that MANY people feel like you do, but they keep coming to the event anyway. If everybody who was sick of it stopped going, I agree, it would be a much better experience. Don't let the screen door hit your ass on the way out. Thanks!

Jane Eric · Post by **Jane Eric** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 8:13 pm

Now that was a great answer!

:::falls out of chair laughing:::

PetsUntilEaten · Post by **PetsUntilEaten** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 8:39 pm

this has been discussed extensively in a number of other threads - if you want to dig a bit. the like minds you are looking for don't obviously hang out too long - so its unlikely you'll find them unless you find their posts & pm them.

it may be that you may have outgrown whatever you once wanted from burningman - or burningman has grown out of sinc with your needs. if it doen't suit you - its a hell of a thing to wrangle if its not fun anymore.

there are smaller venues like flipside. local groups.

i think expecting burningman to either stay the same or self-distruct - is a bit silly. "we fear change, change is bad." - isn't something you'd exspect from this group of people - but its a common cry.

i think its funny that all people (no matter how artsy and innovative they think they are) are all really creatures of habit.

burningman was better last year
or burningman will be best by 2010.
take your pick.

Post by **Eric** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:28 pm

Chai Guy wrote:The problem is that MANY people feel like you do, but they keep coming to the event anyway. If everybody who was sick of it stopped going, I agree, it would be a much better experience. Don't let the screen door hit your ass on the way out. Thanks!

You made me so happy I think I'm going to cry.

robbidobbs · Post by **robbidobbs** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:12 pm

Oh my fookin' GAWD I'm sick of the wining by people who don't participate. Come ON! I don't know what the fuck you're looking for out on the Playa, but if you can't find it, you ain't looking hard enough. You can sit on your duff and bitch, or you can work that big brain of yours and figure out a nifty way to participate. Me? I have two jobs in two very separate departments, have a major fixation on a critical aspect of the BM Project, and get exactly as much sex and intoxication as I'm looking for. Hey! I've got an idea, why don't you ADOPT A POTTIE CLUSTER. That should keep you busy for a week.
(scuse the old saw, but I couldn't help but put in a gratuitous plug).

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:49 pm

>>sit on your duff and bitch

The Peg Boy Training Station is proud to announce it's newest affiliation with the Sit and Your Duff and Bitch Camp. We look forward to some fascinating conversations!

Kinetic II · Post by **Kinetic II** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:33 pm

blyslv wrote:>>sit on your duff and bitch

The Peg Boy Training Station is proud to announce it's newest affiliation with the Sit and Your Duff and Bitch Camp. We look forward to some fascinating conversations!

Let's see, that gives you a potential spectator list in the 24,000 range. And your definition of fascinating is not the same as mine. Do you offer really good ear plugs so you can just nod and smile as they blather on?

Did you even hear me? See that's what I thought.

Savior69 · Post by **Savior69** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:53 pm

Good and Bad is all relative... Burning Man sucks, you say, but what is better? What will make it worth your time? Where is your suggestion with your complaint?

I went to my first regional burn (Playa Del Fuego) and it was great, small crowd, more intimate conversations, ect. Maybe that is for you. It made me miss the big event though, so maybe i havn't got my fill as you have.

It might be for some people the same as doing E or Acid, where after a bunch of really great experiences, it loses its magic. Others think it gets better the more they do it. I think the later are the more open type and dont have expectations that every experience is going to be some magical vision quest with happy warm fuzzies.

I mean what is worth your time. What the fuck is out there that would make Burning Man a waste of time in comparison? Seriously. Football? Shopping? Club Med?

I Agree with Chi Guy on this one...STAY HOME

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:44 pm

Burning man is dead... no longer worth the time...

I am sorry you feel this way. You are not alone. I can not really asnwer your questions though as we clearly have a different perspective. There are many ways to ride the burning man ride. Choose a fun one or choose something else. I hope, whatever your decision, you enjoy.

PetsUntilEaten · Post by **PetsUntilEaten** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:33 am

an earnest sounding troll.

Flux · Post by **Flux** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:35 am

Burning Man is dead. Long live Burning Man!

JezebelinHell · Post by **JezebelinHell** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:01 am

Of course Burning Man is dead. We light the poor fucker on fire once a year.

Flux · Post by **Flux** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:07 am

My point exactly. Each year he arises, reigns for a week, and then dies. The next year he is replaced by a new Burning Man.

The king is dead. Long live the king!

Dr. Pyro · Post by **Dr. Pyro** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:42 pm

I guess this explains this Jesus nonsense.

madmatt · Post by **madmatt** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:04 pm

"Don't let the screen door hit your ass on the way out."

ExactLy. ...SLAM!!...

Troy Van Berry · Post by **Troy Van Berry** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:02 pm

Why all the defensiveness? Can't somebody offer a different opinion without you dismissing it as worthless because it differs(negative vs. positive) from yours. BM is not a viable event for many who have attended in the past for many reasons. I have been 8 years in a row, and will not be back anytime soon, for a variety of reasons. I completely disagree that BM would be better off without folks who don't consuder the event the nirvana of their existence. We can't all live in a state of bliss, I've felt this way for at least 3 years, all the while contributing projects to enhance the experience. There are other experiences out there to be had, I'd hate to think BM is the only place to make it happen. The "don't let the door thing" is a petty small minded response( and it goes against the positive BM vibe which you seem to be standing on.

"Knowledge speaks, wisdom listens" Jimi Hendrix

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:14 pm

Care to elaborate on why you won't be returning?

Just curious.

Don Muerto · Post by **Don Muerto** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:17 pm

Troy Van Berry wrote:Why all the defensiveness? Can't somebody offer a different opinion without you dismissing it as worthless because it differs(negative vs. positive) from yours. BM is not a viable event for many who have attended in the past for many reasons. I have been 8 years in a row, and will not be back anytime soon, for a variety of reasons. I completely disagree that BM would be better off without folks who don't consuder the event the nirvana of their existence. We can't all live in a state of bliss, I've felt this way for at least 3 years, all the while contributing projects to enhance the experience. There are other experiences out there to be had, I'd hate to think BM is the only place to make it happen. The "don't let the door thing" is a petty small minded response( and it goes against the positive BM vibe which you seem to be standing on.

"Knowledge speaks, wisdom listens" Jimi Hendrix

I am not the type to say "don't let the door hit ya..." but I do think people who espouse a philosophy that boils down to "It's not what it used to be, so <u>you</u> should stop going..." come across as incredibly arrogant and self-involved.

I think a closer reading of the posts here indicate that the "screen door" treatment is reserved for people with this attitude, not for those that simply do not enjoy the directions in which the event has evolved.

It's GIGO for me, if you have nothing to add but a bucket of piss, -don't let the screen door hit you on the way out. If you have an interesting point, or better yet, a plan to restore lost greatness, I will be all ears.

PetsUntilEaten · Post by **PetsUntilEaten** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:18 pm

Troy Van Berry wrote:Why all the defensiveness? . . . The "don't let the door thing" is a petty small minded response( and it goes against the positive BM vibe which you seem to be standing on.

Well. . . I would say half of such comments like "burning man is dead . . . no longer worth the time" is not only inflamatory in itself, but mostly offered by trolls and people who never bother to actually converse with anyone on the subject. Notice how this thread creator is not sharing a dialog with anyone?

I think if this poster wanted to converse - they could. But they don't. So the burden is really on them.

Besides there are plenty of moderate responses.

So Troy - What is it that we should offer this person that we haven't already?

Also - we all know that plenty of people who should never be out on the playa but are dragged to BM by others or go out of a sense that they "should" go. Its a hell of a thing to do if you don't get anything out of it (be it fun, growth, understanding, etc.) "Stay home" is not the worst advice ever.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:28 pm

Exctly.

Fosho5 wrote:

Am I the only one that feels this way? Does anybody understand where I'm coming from? Help me through this... please reply...

Without providing specifics to his complaints or grievences, I'm not sure how s/he can realistically expect that any of the readers here will take him up on his request. Short of just dimming out when it came time to put it out there why s/he's feeling this I'd say the intent was to troll. Maybe that's not the situation in which case I'd be interested in why the original poster - along with Troy - won't be making it next year. Certainly I'm not meaning to pry or ask for specifics if it involves a personal issue but if there's somehing that has some resonance for some folks here who feel pretty close to the edge of not wanting to go again I'd sure like to hear it.[/quote]

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:35 pm

Can't somebody offer a different opinion without you dismissing it as worthless because it differs(negative vs. positive) from yours.

Absolutely, everyone is entitled to their opinion, it helps when those opinions are backed up with facts and possible solutions (which the person complaining is willing to help implement). I'm not sure how I'm supposed to respond to people who blame their negative experience at the event on
"Yahoos" and "Bad Vibes".

I completely disagree that BM would be better off without folks who don't consuder the event the nirvana of their existence

.

I have many problems with Burning Man, my biggest complaint is with the Cafe selling chai (and other beverages). So I staged a protest and gave away free chai outside the cafe this year (last year I printed up "boycott center cafe" stickers). My problem isn't with people who disagree with certain aspects of the event, my problem is with people who just want to bitch, and do nothing about it.

There are other experiences out there to be had, I'd hate to think BM is the only place to make it happen

Very true, but for some reason people don't feel the need to let everyone know why they won't be vacationing in Maui again this summer, and how it's now uncool, and how it was soooo much better last year when only the cool people were there. And how it used to be all about the blah blah, and now it's about turned into something else and the vibe sucks now, uh-huh, thanks for sharing!

madmatt · Post by **madmatt** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:40 pm

So I staged a protest and gave away free chai outside the cafe this year

That's the spirit. Of course not everyone is going to be happy about every aspect of their experience at BM. But instead of griping about it, change your own little world there. I think some of the huge camps and villages have gone in that direction. It's what you make of it, and you can't convince 30,000 other people to all agree to change.

The beauty of the whole thing is the kaleidescope. If you don't like it, don't leave, but make it better in your immediate surroundings or try to participate in a totally different way.

Iago · Post by **Iago** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:24 pm

Burning Man is like any other spice. If you keeping using the same one all the time is will become bland. I know that sounds dumb, but it's the best I can come up with. Been going for 8 years and every year is different. Started out '98 with just 2 friends and myself, nothing like being a 'virgin'! Now I'm with a group of 15+. We try to do a little more each year. Our motto is less crap and more art, and that is harder to do than you think. The trick is having realistic goals and expectations, just like in real life. Basically, Burning Man is just another expression of the real world. My life does not revolve around it, it's just one of the many spices I have on my shelf...

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:02 pm

Been going for 8 years and every year is different. Started out '98

Wouldn't that make it 6 years? 98,99.00,01,02,03

Or did they do 2 extra burns without telling me?? I always get left out!

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:54 pm

"boycott center cafe" stickers

I have one of these! Did you do the 'dust sucks, slow down' stickers as well?

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:07 pm

Troy von berry said: He drug his sorry ass to BM for 8 long years. That he hated every BM. He has just now disscovered that he don't have to go. Now that's one for the short bus.

BUT BUT

He is hanging in to e playa to make sure he don't miss anything.

Can you name that toon

Kinetic II · Post by **Kinetic II** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:32 pm

I've been wondering about the same damn thing but never said it. How about a rebuttal Trey, as I'm sure the two of us are not alone. What's the story here? And no this isn't some kind of personal attack, I'm flat out curious.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:03 pm

Well, I think one can be tired of the event for whatever reasons and continue to come back around this place. Nothing wrong with that - especially if you do it in the hope that whatever fouls winds blew you away may have changed direction and entice you to re-think your decision.

This place already has a good number of folks that haven't been to the playa in years. I think Rabbi Dali (Last Real Burner) by his own admission hasn't been in 2-3 years yet he still comes by to poke around.

In the end though Troy owes no one here a rebuttal or an explanation of why he chooses to drop in this place.

Burning man is dead... no longer worth the time...

Burning man is dead... no longer worth the time...

Quit yer bitchin!

And what do you suggest....

Small minds will not find common ground

Re: Small minds will not find common ground

Re: Small minds will not find common ground