Will/has Paul torn us apart?

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
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EB
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Post by EB » Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:48 pm

Seconded.
Irony. You're soaking in it.

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MikeVDS
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Post by MikeVDS » Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:45 pm

Thirded...ed

JediDale
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"Concerning "The Felonious Arsonist"

Post by JediDale » Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:59 pm

I strongly believe that "The Felonious Arsonist" should get all the attention he wants...IN COURT!! Perhaps if you are able, take the time to go to the criminals arraignment and be able to express your displeasure personally TO THE JUDGE!! If I go, I will ask the judge for a minimum 5-10 years. PERIOD!!




Genuinely,


JediDale Of Reno
You don't have to..Believe Everything I Say...because your unconscious will hear this.
Your unconscious can Do anything It wishes..
But your conscious mind isn't going to do
anything of Importance for Now. And...My Voice Will Go With You...

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Kinetik V
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Post by Kinetik V » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:18 pm

The pseudo-famous arsonist named ad nauseum of late was not the only one on the playa this year. I've read about others who lost all of their work and their tools even. I think Bob posted some details about one example on the 3Playa, I hope he'll repost it here so that sorry bastard also gets their day in court.
Kinetic V
~~~~~~
I bring order to chaos. And I bring chaos to those who deserve it, wherever that may be.

Toolmaker
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Post by Toolmaker » Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:37 pm

Kinetic V wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:So, they just happened to have materials handy to rebuild the man after the "accident". What an interesting coincidence. How many artists keep materials for rebuilding their art? The mystery continues.
Considering all the other stuff that DPW builds it seems likely that they would have had enough wood on hand to build it, and if not a trip to Reno would have filled in anything on the list they were missing.
I personally heard one of the folks from DPW near asshole garage mention a trip to Reno to get neon and whatnot. He did not look amused to have to goto Reno. I'm sure wood wasn't to hard to come by on a Tuesday. The only thing I was curious about was the prep time for the soaking/treatments done to the man. I never did find and answer other than that parafin was used.
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Kinetik V
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Post by Kinetik V » Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:38 pm

Following up on my earlier comment I'm going to steal a post Bob made over on the 3Playa... I don't think this individual is getting enough attention for the loss he suffered and I want to turn up the heat on the destruction of other people's art on the playa. Rather than write a soapbox type rant, the picture and Bob's post will speak for me.

First off here's the pic of the sculpture that got burned:

Image

Here's the rest of that 3Playa post:
America Empowering the World Again by Matthew Welter

An artist's trailer, tools, and unfinished sculpture were burned by a malicious arson early Sunday morning. Please - if you have information, contact [email protected]

http://images.burningman.com/index.cgi?image=29422
I rode by this sculpture after it burned and I wondered if it was intended to be like that...obviously it wasn't.

(Source: Bob / 3Playa / 11:40 CDT : http://bbs.3playa.com/?view_thread=808&start=9d )

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Badger
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Post by Badger » Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:29 am

I'm fine with just referring to him as "that bug."
Desert dogs drink deep.

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unjonharley
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Post by unjonharley » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:42 am

what has been said lately: if i bring my little dues coupe with AM DRM lic plate some one will burn it..

and some one said that bug should'nt get jail time???.. burning man needs to make an example of the..... go after him to the fullest extent

Toolmaker
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Post by Toolmaker » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:39 pm

I know we have drifted slightly off the original topic but I was wondering if anyone knows how common it seems to be these days that folks get their shit torched by some asshole. Its really sad to see that people are willing to spend alot of dough to go out in the middle of nowhere just to be an ass of the highest magnitude.
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dana
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Post by dana » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:40 pm

blyslv wrote:Were we ever really "together"?
Man.... that hurts when you say that!

I thought it really meant something to you.

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:04 pm

Stuff gets damaged every year. I'm sure one incentive for putting the Man on a platform in the first place in 1996, aside from making it more visible/prominent/ceremonial or whatnot, was to limit access by drunk partygoers who would break the structure & the neon inadvertently while attempting to climb it.

Torching other people's art or property? I witnessed some of that in 1996, my first year. Seemed like a number of guys were going crazy after the burn & grabbing anything flammable to toss in the embers, including the lamp spires. Worst case I'm aware of was somebody destroying Steve Heck's installation in 1998. After than I'm unclear -- other than an alleged art car arson in 2004 about 200 feet away from where I was snoozing in front of Death/Carp/Cowboys.

Traumatic things happen every year, and this incident has its own uniquely bad taste Whatever you've read on the BBSs, you haven't heard much at all from DPW, the Man builders, or anybody else directly involved in the response, either because they've been busy moving stuff off the playa and starting cleanup, or because they generally don't have a habit of reading & posting to BBSs, or getting in the middle of pendantic arguments. But if they're there in the first place to put on the show no matter what, I doubt one shithead's episode of violence is going to change that attitude.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Badger
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Post by Badger » Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:19 pm

For some reason I was always under the impression that Steve Heck did the deed to his art himself. Had no idea someone did it to him.

Image

I'm also wondering what amount of outrage focused on Addis the bug has to do with people having a generally visceral contempt for anyone who intentionally defaces/destroys other people's art. My feeling is that such bullshit has been on the upswing for several years now with theft (remember the Lilly Garden), tagging, ramming with art cars, and general defacement.
Desert dogs drink deep.

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:02 pm

No, as I recall, Steve Heck's installation that year contained a bunch of large Fresnel glass lens parts that filtered light to the interior, that he intended to remove before his scheduled burn the following night -- instead the glass melted or cracked. He was really broken up about the incident.

Rangers might be seeing a different trend, but I thought '96 was way more violent, and that there was more serious theft & mayhem in '97 & '98.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

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theCryptofishist
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Post by theCryptofishist » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:09 pm

Toolmaker wrote:I know we have drifted slightly off the original topic ...
That's okay. I"m bored of my own topic.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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theCryptofishist
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Post by theCryptofishist » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:14 pm

Bob wrote:I thought '96 was way more violent, and that there was more serious theft & mayhem in '97 & '98.
Thanks for saying this, Bob. I don't say this much, but sometimes when the old timers are waxing poetic about the way things were, I get this feeling that I wouldn't have felt comfortable in the old BRC. Still haven't run into a used copy of This is Burning Man, but Chai told me of the women who were trying to bring feminine energy to the burn by baking goddess cookies or some such cringe worthy pastry and then it got taken over by guys baking penises. Not that male/female is necessarily the way the tension is best explained, but the stories I hear (not to mention the headspace I was in in the 90s) just make it feel that it wasn't actually a golden age. YMMV.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

spectabillis
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Post by spectabillis » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:40 am

theCryptofishist wrote:...but the stories I hear (not to mention the headspace I was in in the 90s) just make it feel that it wasn't actually a golden age. YMMV.
i would agree with that. certain social movements that enjoy some effect on people often get romaticized on their historical beginnings, and burningman has its share of things that get spinned.

i guess it might be similar to the period of the wild west when people started and grew great things, but bad things and setbacks didnt get the same focus. it was incredibly chaotic, dangerous, and most people were building a safe environmet to protect themselves and what they were doing. then again, maybe its just certain events that help frame the overall picture that includes danger and failure like the battle of little bighorn.

or.. the leave no trace philosophy having historical influence from the blm pressuring the event into it by threatening to shut it down, yet the ecological benefit is whats given focus.

i think a relevant theme art installation would be paul addis flying into the twin towers.

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Kinetik V
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Post by Kinetik V » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:51 pm

spectabillis wrote:i think a relevant theme art installation would be paul addis flying into the twin towers.
SB, 9/11 was a fucking tragedy, and the last thing we need is some half assed, pulled out of someone's ass art installation that puts another spin on that day. Of all the things you had to go post about....can't you come up with something else?

Today marks 6 years since my best friend died as a result of injuries sustained on 9/11. That might help put my comments in perspective.
Kinetic V
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I bring order to chaos. And I bring chaos to those who deserve it, wherever that may be.

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apokiliptika
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Post by apokiliptika » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:08 pm

Message Placemarker.

spectabillis
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Post by spectabillis » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:55 pm

thanks for reminding me why i avoid you k.

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Jordan 10-E
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Post by Jordan 10-E » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:31 pm

Kinetic V wrote:Following up on my earlier comment I'm going to steal a post Bob made over on the 3Playa... I don't think this individual is getting enough attention for the loss he suffered and I want to turn up the heat on the destruction of other people's art on the playa. Rather than write a soapbox type rant, the picture and Bob's post will speak for me.

First off here's the pic of the sculpture that got burned:

Image

Here's the rest of that 3Playa post:
America Empowering the World Again by Matthew Welter

An artist's trailer, tools, and unfinished sculpture were burned by a malicious arson early Sunday morning. Please - if you have information, contact [email protected]

http://images.burningman.com/index.cgi?image=29422
I rode by this sculpture after it burned and I wondered if it was intended to be like that...obviously it wasn't.

(Source: Bob / 3Playa / 11:40 CDT : http://bbs.3playa.com/?view_thread=808&start=9d )
I have something to say about this. This is a perfect example of why this radical arsonist/terrorist/I-can-burn-whatever-the-hell-I-want bullshit is wack, not to mention the people making excuses for this crap... pull your head out of your asses... seriously.

This installation was near my camp on the Esplanade and one night later in the week I saw it on fire; installation, trailer, and whatever else. No burn platform. It was a dirty nasty fire with wicked black smoke. People were looking at it in disqust and most were leaving because it just looked wrong. Well it was.

On Tuesday after the event while cleaning up my art installation materials and our camp I was visited by the artist of said piece. I had never met him before but he was actually referred to me by one of the DPW who thought I could help him. He was looking for a particular type of tie-down so he could haul his stuff away. I was not able to help him. But it is true, some IDIOT!!! burned all his stuff, including the trailer. Now he was stuck trying to find a way to move his stuff and salvage what was left. He didn't express how bummed he was, but I could see it hurt him inside. I really felt bad for him. So senseless!!!

Burning other people's stuff is not art it is a crime! Screw you guys that keep trying to defend such actions. Does it make me want to never deal with you or really get to know you? You bet it does. So if you are one of those that think this type of behavior is ok please stay out of my way because I will tell you this to your face just as much as I am now. Get a brain, have a heart. I seriously doubt those that argue in support of these losers have EVER put together an art installation of their own. You have no idea what people put into their pieces and your inconsiderate thoughts are down right absurd and despicable.

Am I worked up over this? You bet I am. Will it matter in the grand cosmic scheme of things. I think it will.

Thank you Kinetic V for bringing this seperate but related incident to this discussion. Maybe some people can start to reevaluate their misguided thinking.
10E

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Jordan 10-E
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Post by Jordan 10-E » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:33 pm

spectabillis wrote:i think a relevant theme art installation would be paul addis flying into the twin towers.
Dude WTF?
10E

spectabillis
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Post by spectabillis » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:42 pm

dude, leave it alone.

it wasnt supposed to be serious. if i got under your skin because i dont agree with you, then its up to you to deal with it in a constructive way rather than actively looking for something to argue about with me.

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Jordan 10-E
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Post by Jordan 10-E » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:47 pm

spectabillis wrote:dude, leave it alone.

it wasnt supposed to be serious. if i got under your skin because i dont agree with you, then its up to you to deal with it in a constructive way rather than actively looking for something to argue about with me.
You need to stop posting stupid shit. I am not actively looking to argue with you, just responding each time you pollute the eplaya with inane babble.
10E

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Kinetik V
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Post by Kinetik V » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:00 pm

spectabillis wrote:thanks for reminding me why i avoid you k.
I'm not here for a fucking popularity contest so I don't give a damn if you avoid me or not. The bottom line for me is that I thought your idea sucked ass and I said so. If you don't like that you can exercise your right to hit the plonk button which is on your left...that's something you can thank me for, btw.

Since this Addis shit started some of your posts have been so far out in left field that is has me wondering if something's changed with you. It's kinda creepy how you're responding to, what is it now 4 different but related threads on the subject like a man possessed? I'm starting to think there's more to the story here...where were you SB when the man got torched? Are you hiding something?

In any event we'll let American Ju$tice run it's course and we'll see how it goes. And thank you for reminding me why I regretted ever supporting you in a moderator role on the board. And to think, people called me unstable? I'm not even in the same league as someone who continues to defend the indefensible.
Kinetic V
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I bring order to chaos. And I bring chaos to those who deserve it, wherever that may be.

spectabillis
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Post by spectabillis » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:09 pm

yes, i am possessed.

i have been regularly undergoing channel therapy called spiritual transference with applied activity. it took quite a bit of searching but i found a relevant psychic that was able to pick up on your alpha waves, and for three weekly sessions of an hour each i share your mind and spirit.

of course the natural 'side effect' of this proceedure in sharing your mind... that makes me an automatic sociopath.

spectabillis
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Post by spectabillis » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:13 pm

I am not actively looking to argue with you, just responding each time you pollute the eplaya with inane babble.
thats called trolling, and there's no difference.

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Jordan 10-E
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Post by Jordan 10-E » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:15 pm

Hey everyone I am a troll. Sweet.
10E

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unjonharley
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Post by unjonharley » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:26 pm

ya time to stop feeding the trolls.

plonk

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Ugly Dougly
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Post by Ugly Dougly » Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:28 am

Sorry, is this a serious thread? I guess I wandered in here by mistake. My bad.

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Kinetik V
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Post by Kinetik V » Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:09 am

Jordan 10-E wrote:Hey everyone I am a troll. Sweet.
Let's see:

Jordan 10-E:
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
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Spectabillis:
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Jordan 10-E's been on the board longer and a review of his posts shows quality reigns over quantity. There's nothing there that supports the troll accusation and while I doubt you'll do so SB, I feel that you overstepped again and owe him an apology.

A public apology at that.....
Kinetic V
~~~~~~
I bring order to chaos. And I bring chaos to those who deserve it, wherever that may be.

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