Watch the Dems squirm

Finnegan · Post by **Finnegan** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:50 pm

This is too beautiful for words. Still think the Dem party has a shred of dignity?

Read on:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071106/ap_ ... eachment_2

dr.placebo · Post by **dr.placebo** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:07 pm

OK, I'll bite.

The classic answer to "do you belong to an organized political party" is "no, I'm a Democrat."

That the Democrats actually have some reluctance to behave like the pack of rabid hyenas that the Republicans emulated during the Clinton impeachment shows that although they may not have dignity, they at least possess some decency.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:15 pm

Looks like it was the Republicans' idea, turning on their own man. Typical.

Finnegan · Post by **Finnegan** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:09 pm

Oh I donâ€™t think thatâ€™s the case at all. I think they saw an opportunity to showcase just how hypocritical the Dems are. Truth is, neither party has any interest in changing the status quo.

Dems say one thing, and then do the exact opposite at every chance.

Go Greens!

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:55 pm

Where's the bad news? It will be debated instead of killed.

Let's get ready for a fight, because Cheney is feisty and SMART.

Visualize President Pelosi.

Finnegan · Post by **Finnegan** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:11 pm

The only bad news is that it wonâ€™t seriously be persued. It will never make it out of committee, where the Dems have a majority.

The Fantastic news is that it will force the pathetically corrupt Dems to vote in support of the worst criminal ever to stain the White House.

Watch them run for cover! Fun!

For added fun, the sponsors of the bill could bring it up for vote approval every single day, and force the Dem leadership to keep protecting Cheney. That would be hilarious.

Does anyone still consider the Dems to be anything but complicit in this fiasco?

Go Greens!

skygod · Post by **skygod** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:45 pm

Both parties are working us.
I'm registering Independent .

Finnegan · Post by **Finnegan** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:32 pm

Iâ€™m glad the repubs couldnâ€™t resist humiliating the Dems! Watch them scurry to find a new rock to hide under. Priceless.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:25 pm

Finnegan wrote:Oh I donâ€™t think thatâ€™s the case at all. I think they saw an opportunity to showcase just how hypocritical the Dems are....

bush's reply said they had better things to focus on, like underprivelaged childrens health care. cant call one party being hypocritical over the other.

Finnegan · Post by **Finnegan** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:20 pm

Oh no, not at all. The repugs are pretty much pure evil in their present incarnation. But the dems are supposed to be marketed as our next best hope.

They're not, is all I'm sayin'.

Go Greens!

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:41 am

you know what, the democrats could run a moldy turd (think fritz mondale) and i STILL would vote for them....

the alternative is far worse......and definately the difference btween venial and mortal sin.

it is a two party system....i'm not fond of the stranglehold these two parties haVE, BUT I AM A REALIST when i'm not high, so i will click my heels , close my eyes, and say i'm a good democrat three times then vote the party line...

the greens, the blues, the libertarians, whatever, get your priorities straight please, lets not pull another nader, and fuck ourselves for the sake of fucking ourselves.

i'll take the Helco i know over the Military-Industrial-OedipAL COMPLEX i dont ANY FUCKING DAY!

picture it in simple terms....the democrats mean we step in shit, the republicans mean we eat shit, so for the love of god, lets not eat shit by default or out of spite.

it's going to take a while to get the taste of the last 7 years out of my mouth anyway.

it actually tastes more vile than the reagan years, and that administration was crap on a stick.

Finnegan · Post by **Finnegan** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:01 am

This very discussion is taking place all over the country, and will be debated right up to election day, and thatâ€™s really a great thing.

My feeling is, the Dems absolutely will not change the status quo, and yesterdayâ€˜s fiasco just adds evidence to the huge pile we already have from these last 7 years.

Here is how *real* Democrats act:
You stand up and vote NO on torture, Senator Schumer. You allow a debate about impeaching the vice president, Congressman Hoyer. And you sure as shit don't vote to support the administration's Iran policy, Senator Clinton.

What does the Democratic party stand for, anyway? At one point, I thought I knew.

(P.S., Gore stole votes from the the only progressive running in that race, Nader.)

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:31 pm

oops, damn computer....fucked up a post again....read one below.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:35 pm

let us not forget, but under Pres. Clinton and the Democrats, we balanced the budget, and had 8 years of unheralded prosperity, and no wars of occupation.

not to mention much cuter white house aides.

so, what was it again you're afraid of?....Success and Competence?

i didnt like bill clinton (in fact i was a delegate for jerry "moonbeam" brown at the 92 dem convention) until he left office and i looked at his long list of achievements.

He truly was Elvis, and it's a hard act to follow...

so, if you want some evil pat boone instead, well, i have to question your taste in music.

Post by **mdmf007** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:42 pm

9 Trillion in national debt as of yesterday.

I sure would love to drink with George Bush, but as a president - I am pretty dissapointed.

and you werent talking about Lewinsky being the "cuter aid"? were you?

later

Finnegan · Post by **Finnegan** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:01 pm

What have the Dems done recently to deserve my support?

Vs

What have they done recently that really pisses me off?

The second category is overflowing. The first.. Crickets chirping.

Go Greens!

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:56 pm

i do believe if you access the secret service web site, there is a poll and results available as to cutest white house staff (female interns) and monica aside (i dunno, maybe bill has a thing for whaling off long island...)The clinton White house had a .2% HIGHER cute factor than the Legendary 1960-1963 staff.

Post by **mdmf007** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:58 pm

Probably nothing -

What has the GOP done for you lately?

Finnegan · Post by **Finnegan** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:02 pm

Go Greens!

Stryder · Post by **Stryder** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:04 pm

Exactly. My official party is "Decline To State", as it known in California. Means the same thing; INDEPENDENT.
The 2 party system is a bad joke that has gone on too long. I have no use for 'party-ism'.

skygod wrote:Both parties are working us.
I'm registering Independent .

dr.placebo · Post by **dr.placebo** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:58 pm

I'm a very reluctant Democrat. I'd rather the entire corrupt bunch in government, Dems and Reps alike, left office in favor of a less venal crew.

But the current witch's brew of Republican policies is so wrong that I feel compelled to cast a vote where I think that it will help to block them. That's not the Greens, although I am pro-environment. That's not the Libertarians, although I dislike authoritarian governments.

I choose to vote and contribute such that I have the best chance of protecting my family and friends. This means that I wish to protect not just those who can pass as normal, but those who are poor, are gay, have had or may need abortions, or have unpopular views and wish to express them.

Many in this administration deserve impeachment and even stronger punishment. But we have a poltical split in this country that requires mending, and I don't see how impeachment is going to accomplish that. Rather, let's see what we can do to survive this slow motion train wreck.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:40 am

dr, placebo hit the proverbial nail on the head...

if i had my druthers, i would cast my vote where my heart is, but i am going to be practical, and purposeful, and vote with my head, and not the little one either...

partyism aside, i am choosing the lesser of two evils, as cliched as that sounds.

i have a 22 year old son, and i'll be damned if he is to be sent off to kill or be killed so some fucknut with a hummer can afford his gas.

i'll throw him across the st. lawrence river if i have to.

i think the chances of withdrawl, and policy change are much greater with the democrats, and so i will hedge my bets and do what i think is necessary to achieve that goal.

i hope that when the day comes to cast your vote, you will think long and hard about our future as a nation, and let idealism lay dormant, for all of our sake.

when we have an administration that is at least willing to listen, and possibly act on the wishes of the people, instead of the wishes of a few, i think we will be better off than our current track is leading us to.

i wish it were otherwise, i wish i did not have to compromise, i also wish i had a lifetime supply of jello and bacon, but all three of these things are not going to happen so i will settle for the democrats, and the buffet at circus circus in reno.

Finnegan · Post by **Finnegan** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:56 am

I understand completely. I have been holding my nose and voting for the lesser evil all of my life, waiting for the dems to act like dems.

when we have an administration that is at least willing to listen, and possibly act on the wishes of the people, instead of the wishes of a few, i think we will be better off than our current track is leading us to.

That, in my opinion, is the Big Lie of the democratic party. Have they listened in these last 10 months? No. Well, they listen and ignore all they hear. They will gladly take your money and your vote, and give you nothing in return.

Hillary is fine with permanent bases in Iraq, war with Iran and near-dictatorial executive power. Did she go ahead and vote to confirm the torturer for AG yesterday? Probably.

We get fascism or fascism lite, tm?

No more. Go Greens!

skygod · Post by **skygod** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:12 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:i hope that when the day comes to cast your vote, you will think long and hard about our future as a nation, and let idealism lay dormant, for all of our sake.

Screw that. People get the government they deserve. I'm voting with my heart.
(no offense meant, Simon)

Finnegan · Post by **Finnegan** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:16 am

Bingo!

The dems are gambling that our collective Fear will keep us voting for them. Nope.

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:29 am

Y'know something? It's kinda creepy that everyone's talking 'lesser of two evils' in this election. Republicans and Democrats alike.

Are there no good candidates anywhere? Has every decent person decided that it's just not worth it?

For years, I've suggested to third partyites that they need to build themselves up. Forget about going for high office--go for low office. If 30% of the nations city governments were from a single third party we'd cease being a two party system(though, to be fair, I do believe that should a third party actually manage to rise, it will not expand the system, it will replace one of the current big two).

Me, I vote for the candidates most likely to do things that will end government and leave me alone. It's a sad commentary on the Democrats that I usually wind up voting for Republicans.

But, with luck, one day we'll get to a point where no one will vote at all.

dr.placebo · Post by **dr.placebo** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:27 pm

Well, lurker, I think that we have to disagree on this one. The Republican base is dominated by authoritarians and fundamentalists, and they are not about to leave you alone. And forget about the law giving you protection. In this administration the law is a weapon to be used against you, unless the written law is in your favor, in which case it can be ignored.

There really are differences between the parties. I'll grant that I wish that the differences were larger, and that the Democrats were better than they are. But on almost all of the issues that move me the Dems have at least marginally better positions.

I'm not such a Democrat that I'm blind. I was against the Vietnam War when it was Johnson's. I stayed against it when it was Nixon's. I am against the Iraq Fiasco while it is George's, and I will stay against it if it becomes Hillary's.

In the absence of proportional representation the two party system is remarkably stable. Splitting the progressive vote gives the election to the regressives. The opposite is true as well, but the prospect worries me less.

So lurker thinks that "with luck, one day we'll get to a point where no one will vote at all." It's been tried, and it's not pretty.