this is SAD

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mdmf007
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Post by mdmf007 » Thu May 22, 2008 1:48 pm

even 2 kids per couple is too many - the population still grows, unless you die giving birth. Australias population is going down - they are having less than 2 kids per family, every other industrialized nation it is still growing.

I have read doomsday stories about worldwide famine when the population reaches 9 billion - some predict - in books mind you, that up to 50% of the population would starve to death in the resultant disease, famine, war and land grabbing that would go on.

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Post by erri2000 » Thu May 22, 2008 1:50 pm

mdmf007 wrote:even 2 is too many - the population till grows, unless you die giving birth. Australias population is going down - they are having less than 2 kids per family
That is a good point.
It is alot like sex,
Some people just don't get it

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Post by ragabashpup » Thu May 22, 2008 2:02 pm

I am content with my one child. I can understand why people have two though. Sibling bonding is very important to some people. Not my cup of tea though.

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Post by lurker » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:30 am

I think 2.3-2.5 children is near replacement levels--which is ideal ZPG.

But is ZPG ideal? Isn't a stable population a stagnant population? Doesn't a lot of our innovation stem from dealing with population pressure? What happens when we remove those pressures?

Evolujtion favors the breeding population. If we opt out of that what happens?
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Post by theCryptofishist » Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:38 am

lurker wrote: Doesn't a lot of our innovation stem from dealing with population pressure?
So can cannibalism.
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Post by gyre » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:18 pm

lurker wrote:I think 2.3-2.5 children is near replacement levels--which is ideal ZPG.

But is ZPG ideal? Isn't a stable population a stagnant population? Doesn't a lot of our innovation stem from dealing with population pressure? What happens when we remove those pressures?

Evolujtion favors the breeding population. If we opt out of that what happens?
Who says evolution favors overpopulation?
We will find that nature will take care of these problems if we don't.

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Post by **burn** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:58 pm

Speaking of changes in economy and habits -

I just read in the latest Reason Magazine July 2008 issue:

"Soon most of the world's population will soon live in nations where the fertility rate is below the "replacement" level of 2.1.

"Strangest of all, total fertility rates are dropping most rapidly in predominantly rural countries with low female literacy rates and few work force opportunities.

"Bangladesh's total fertility rate in 1970 was 6.4. In 2006 it is 2.9.
Zimbabwe has dropped from 7.4 to 3.3 during the same period."

Food for thought.

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Post by chiefdanfox » Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:25 pm

hmmm. It isn't clear what 'evolution' favors. Evolution is syndrome of exclusive processes that foster change in things. Rocks evolve with pressure, heat, chemical action, and radioactive decay. Stars evolve. Living things on this planet change from mutation, recombinant error and drift, and through natural selection (interaction with the biome; social, climate, punctuated stress, etc.) Social systems evolve through a number of diffusion processes, invention and natural selection.

A breeding population can 'evolve' itself right into oblivion just as easily as a non-breeding population. The difference is that the breeding population will simply take more time.

Evolution favors nothing, but acts on everything. Most life (in terms of dead weight) on this planet is bacteria, or essentially the fecal matter of bacteria, and viruses. I guess you could say evolution favors the efficient transformation of energetic matter into concentrated and stored substances.

The input was a star's 'fusile' output. We live because some of that energy was captured, stored and released in a more controlled fashion. We don't need fusion to release the energy stored in lettuce. (although I like the idea of a fusion-lettuce bomb. No one would suspect that one...)

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Post by mdmf007 » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:44 pm

very profound.

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Post by honeyfire » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:53 am

^^^ why i have a crush on chiefdanfox
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Good to the last drop.

Post by Melvynman » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:24 pm

"Peak Oil" is upon us.

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Post by mdmf007 » Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:19 pm

if only the public knew the real scoop and understood the implications.

easy oil is going, and going quick. we have burned half of the easy oil. After that its Oil shale, deep water, under polar caps, in the Chukchi Sea,

Christ, oil just broke 100 this year - now its over 145.00 a barrel? Where the hell is my flux capacitator or the electric car I was promised decades ago..

I feel so bad for my yet to be born grandkids, they have to fix this mess.

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Post by TheFunkHole » Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:04 pm

"please, please wake up. Look at the signposts around you."

Community is more important than ever.

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Post by chiefdanfox » Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:27 pm

I stand behind my prediction from five years ago:
In thirty years, you won't be able to give a barrel of oil away.

Back in the day, everyone thought WWIII would be a geopolitical war, later some folks thought it would be over energy, lately some folks think it will be over culture/religion, possibly water. I believe it will be over a few lines of code, possibly just some punctuation.

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Post by **burn** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:51 pm

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Post by lurker » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:04 am

Chief, it's VERY clear what evolution favors. Evolution favors those who breed the most. In every species. That's it.

Everything is a by-product of gametes making more gametes.

Every species will overpopulate given the chance. And then they dieback--sometimes they die out, but often the dieback results in members of one species altering their ecological niche.

We occupy the same nighe as the great apes, and our population is busy acting with evolutionary imperatives to wipe out our competition. But the thing that evolution provided to give us an edge--intelligence--is also giving us the ability to act in ways that don't favor evolution. Our societies are reaching points at which they are slowly ceasing to favor breeding.

That's another way to have dieback.

The most developed societies, the ones in which instinctual pressures are relieved or obviated by societal convenience, are the ones that are experiencing this more highly.

Intelligence replaces instinct, and without any stable biological guidance, it leaves us floundering. And so we will die back and be replaced by those that DO breed.

Breeding populations die out by overpopulating and being too specialzed to adapt to the new conditions.

Oh, and I agree with your oil theory--but I think it'll be less than 25 years.
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Post by TheFunkHole » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:29 am

In the future the "American Way of Life" will be a thing of the past. When we look back, we'll look back in shame and anger.

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Post by lurker » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:07 am

The American Way of Life will lead to the Singularity. Once past the Singularity we will look back at the American Way of Life as the simple existence of protozoans.
"Life is like a box of razor blades. Sharp, shiny, and good for removing unwanted body hair"

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Post by ygmir » Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:57 am

bump.......not sure why, but, it's kind of an interesting discussion, considering when it was
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Post by TomServo » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:34 pm

Saw some show on a guy who makes Bio-Diesel out of algae, grown in some weird upright contraption. If 1/10 the area of new mexico could be reserved for this production, it would fuel the entire U.S. Not sure if Bio-Diesel engines are the same as regular Diesel, but engine life is much longer than gasoline. I have almost 600,000 miles on my Peterbilt. Over 800,000 on my last truck.
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Re: this is SAD

Post by DVD Burner » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:01 pm

djsiago wrote:THIS IS SO SAD this world is being controled by the arab countries because they controlling the gas prices
You are living a farce.
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Post by theCryptofishist » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:05 pm

TomServo wrote:If 1/10 the area of new mexico could be reserved for this production, it would fuel the entire U.S.
That's 12,167 square miles. New Mexico might be able to take the entire hit, it's not a densely populated state. And it has the sunshine. How much of Navajo country is in NM? Any Hopi territory? That might lead to tricky negotiations. Might not. They might be happy to nix the coal plants and possible resurgence of nuclear. But I'm betting that this technology is not "mature" and that there's still a butt-load (ew!) of work needed to make it viable. And it doesn't solve the carbon problems.
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Post by DVD Burner » Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:01 pm

Most people that think of oil as fuel think in slow motion.
But if one thinks one must use oil as fuel, here's food for thought:


Image

Image

Image

And there is more. and some of these cars are not hybrids. Just click the pics to find out more.
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Post by Elderberry » Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:39 am

TheFunkHole wrote:In the future the "American Way of Life" will be a thing of the past. When we look back, we'll look back in shame and anger.
I was going to decom in L.A. yesterday and for whatever reason, I couldn't help notice that almost every car on the freeway seemed to be a huge SUV and I'd guess that more than 95% of them had only one passenger. People should start feeling shame and anger right now!

BTW L.A. decom was a glow free zone.

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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:34 am

chiefdanfox wrote:I stand behind my prediction from five years ago:
In thirty years, you won't be able to give a barrel of oil away.

Back in the day, everyone thought WWIII would be a geopolitical war, later some folks thought it would be over energy, lately some folks think it will be over culture/religion, possibly water. I believe it will be over a few lines of code, possibly just some punctuation.
[url=http://www.digicastinternational.com][img]http://76.14.56.240/digiweb/button10.jpg[/img][/url]

"[i][b]The art is in the digit![/b][/i]"

[url=http://eplaya.burningman.com/search.php?search_author=THE+ORIGINAL+DIGIMAN]The Original Digiman[/url]

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Post by pinemom » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:38 am

heheee
I know Im gonna be shot down like a burgler coming through your window...but here goes...


After Titwi and I watched the movie Angels and demons...alot of weird shit went through my mind....Well it has always been there, but he and I had this lil' discussion about religions and birth control which took us to wanting to know what is really in the Catholic Archive library!
or maybe the other way around... who knows...but ANYWAY, geeze Piney stay on topic....

I have a theory, only my opinion.

The Catholics outlawed Birth control to make sure their following grew!
That without Birth control, of course husband and wife would want to copulate more then for just conceiving child, but the chances that each time they did unless wife was already preggers, she would become pregnant.
Therefore strengthening the numbers in the Catholic church.
Even if each family had at least 10 children and 2 went AWOL(non-Catholicism) thats still 8 children to grow up Catholic and keep breeding the Catholic army.

Not a fighting army, worse! A Group, hell the largest group on the face of the EARTH, to protect the secrets in that damn Vault!!!!

I personally want to know whats in there! Scary yes, but truth be told is sometimes what you need to do to make the World right...right....?
With more and More Catholics to protect the Catholic way and Vatican City(untouchable by ANY Government/Country) There is no way for ANY one to force the issue of what over 2000 yrs of artifacts and writings by who even knows if all human are in that damn secret vault!!! It like they got to make all the rules.....based on what they found. I think what they found over all those centuries is very scary!!! Maybe thats why their Catholic rules for life are all based on scare tactics...if you sin, your gonna die! And for all the sinners who go to confession, you can do pennants to repent your sins, WTF? you do a bad thing... Your bad, aint no 99 Hail Mary's gonna bring that person you killed back....?



WOW...yup...all that on one cup of coffee! and a head full of snot!
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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:47 am

I think you are right.
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Post by Boijoy » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:16 am

sounds like the Mormons also.
Perhaps the Mormons and Catholics will go to war against each other and wipe themselves out... nawwwww they think too much alike. nevermind.
:?
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Post by ygmir » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:22 am

according to South Park, the Mormons got it right.........
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Post by Sail Man » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:33 am

Boijoy wrote:sounds like the Mormons also.
Perhaps the Mormons and Catholics will go to war against each other and wipe themselves out... nawwwww they think too much alike. nevermind.
:?
Leaving Islam to rise in its place ?!? :shock:



I'd rather it be them thar snake dancing southern baptists meself :wink:
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