Whats the Deal? Trouble@Greeters Gate, Discovery Channel!?!?

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Coyote88
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Whats the Deal? Trouble@Greeters Gate, Discovery Channel!?!?

Post by Coyote88 » Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:56 pm

Hey, my name is mike
i came out this year for my first burning man
drove 3000 miles and spent 4 days on the road to get there
i had a great time but there were a few things that i think you should pay
some serious attention to.
If you guys read what people are saying on your own E playa
you will see their are real problems with theft at the front gate
i read of a man who had a a large box of glowsticks and other gifts "confiscated"
at the front gate only to be taken back to greeter camp for distribution to the cheers
of the greeters behind the wall.
i had an indian headdress TAKEN from me at the gate.
its one thing to say dont take it out, it causes moop
and another to outright take people's personal belongings
i wanted to keep that whether or not i could take it out on the playa
so there was that
and also whats the deal with the discovery channel filming a reality show
at burning man with out any of our consent to be filmed??!?
you preach a detachment from commercialism yet allow media giants to come in and
tell us to make good for the camera?!? i feel this cheapens the whole event
and goes against the philosophy put forth in your own 10 principles
i came to the black rock desert to participate in a community
which is free and uninhibited unrestricted by the rest of the conservative nation
No spectators? well whats the deal with allowing people to filma TV show allowing
the entire nation to sit and SPECTATE from their living rooms
as if watching a freak show for entertainment.

other than these things i had a great time
but these events really make me question
whether this is just another big scam
just invented to make money for those in charge
a two faced leadership is what we had for 8 years
now we cant even go to burning man to escape the clutches of greed

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Post by Toolmaker » Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:03 pm

I couldn't agree more. Sad to say but BM isn't the event it started out as. Not only was I disturbed about the gate staff stealing from ppl so they could attend after driving all that way out there but to have Greeter brag about how the gate "gifted" the stolen stuff to them just made it all that much worse. I was really sad when I saw thirteen brag about his "gifts" and this is a person who is well established as a volunteer possibly even with a laminate from the event. Not to mention DPW shaking ppl down all week pretending to be law enforcement officers. This and the fact that Kristy didn't even respond to my email about this years activities showed me the true face of the current volunteers at Burningman. Seems PG&E AND DPW have been infected with the worst diseases in America. But fuck it.. thats their American Dream.. to steal from themecampers and rob ppl on the playa. Way to go folks!

The media thing has been going on for a long time.. its just gotten downright ridiculous now with ppl showing up with cameras so they can make money. But now with "anthropologists" and whatnot studying us its time to look to regionals or start another event out there thats true to the principles. I even saw one media commerce hound there to make money justify his existance as a spectator in our community by saying its all good since he wore a tutu and his wife/gf gifted some blinky crap likely made in fookin china.

Seems most participants could care less about the principles or even the event itself in any way shape or form. Its just a way to make a living for some nowadays and for others to party for free at the expense of others. I had an entire duffel with my PRIMARY survival gear stolen from me when I was sleeping right next to it. This is attempted murder in my opinion.. real fuckin cool to steal someone friggin food and water when they are a "homeless' camper. Thankfully there are still a few real burners out there to help the ppl that the ORG volunteers screwed.

edited to add:

Also not cool to steal, deface, or burn the art of others. This is another trend that has continued to get worse.. this could be why there was less art this year.
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Post by thirt33n » Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:55 pm

Toolmaker wrote: I was really sad when I saw thirteen brag about his "gifts" and this is a person who is well established as a volunteer possibly even with a laminate from the event.
are you talking about me?

please refresh my memory of what gifts i bragged about if you are. i cain't remember bragging about "gifts" other than a tecate or three....
blow.

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Post by thirt33n » Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:59 pm

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... ht=#406988

if you're referring to the post here then i think i've been misunderstood.
getting gifted a tecate out a window means people were passing them out to us. i'd never take stuff without asking. i'm actually a pretty model brc citizen.
blow.

eigenstates
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I suggest

Post by eigenstates » Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:51 pm

...completely banning the 'media'. Those Current TV cameras are the absolute worst. Their presence is a stain.

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Post by Toolmaker » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:19 am

thirt33n wrote:
Toolmaker wrote: I was really sad when I saw thirteen brag about his "gifts" and this is a person who is well established as a volunteer possibly even with a laminate from the event.
are you talking about me?

please refresh my memory of what gifts i bragged about if you are. i cain't remember bragging about "gifts" other than a tecate or three....
I was talking about this line
thirt33n wrote:thanks for your light and lights. someone gifted me some cool finger led's i'll imagine it was you. THANK YOU.
This was posted in this thread
thirt33n wrote:thanks for your light and lights. someone gifted me some cool finger led's i'll imagine it was you. THANK YOU.
After the OP mentioned that gate confiscated all his blinkys and went about distributing them to others before they left the gate.

I may have misunderstood what you were driving at there.. but it almost looked like a snarky response to a blatant theft and than an admission to reciept of stolen property.

If I am off target my apologies...

Do you happen to know who was working Monday night after the whiteout when gates were reopened?
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Post by RedheadBarbie » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:05 am

Toolmaker wrote:I even saw one media commerce hound there to make money justify his existance as a spectator in our community by saying its all good since he wore a tutu and his wife/gf gifted some blinky crap likely made in fookin china.
Misrepresent some one else. I SEWED with my own two hands the bandanas and costume pieces we gave out as well as what we wore. We are not traditional media. We do not publish anything from BM or any other lifestyle events. We used our cameras so I can go home and use the pictures to paint what I cannot remember, and we document our life, not the useless lives of a bunch of closed minded pricks.

If all you supposed 'participants' are so great at participating why was there no one else there for the figure drawing class, that I was at, and PARTICIPATED in?

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Post by RedheadBarbie » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:24 am

Oh, and 80% or more of the fabric I use for projects is reclaimed from thrift or vintage. Is that too earth friendly? Or not enough? I'm not sure if you'd like me to be a hippy or you are against those too.

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Post by unjonharley » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:52 am

RedheadBarbie wrote:
If all you supposed 'participants' are so great at participating why was there no one else there for the figure drawing class, that I was at, and PARTICIPATED in?
There is just to much stuff to do/see to stop at the drawing class.. This year camp took up a bunch of time for some reason..

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Post by thirt33n » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:06 am

toolmaker-
hey, no, you misread my post. i wouldn't knowingly have anything to do with that kinda bs.

when i was gifted a couple finger led's it was nowhere near the greeters gate. and i just wanted the op to know i was thanking him as a light bearer...blah blah

i worked greeter shifts from saturday til monday @ 8am and got off before the storm.

here's a link to the schedulehttp://greeters.messopottage.com/

I'm so shocked that greeters would do something like this. i can't imagine it happening. i thought it was at the gate where it happened.


crux
blow.

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Post by mars » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:27 am

Just to clarify...there are two (2) gates when you enter BRC. The first one is generally called "The Gate" or, in the thread about the stolen stuff "The Checkers Gate". at this gate, your tickets are checked for number of people and your vehicle is checked to make sure there aren't more people than number of tickets.

The second gate is the Greeters Station. That's where you might get your "welcome home" and the virgin burners ring the bell or, hopefully, do some other form or de-virginization.

Looks like you are getting the two places mixed up, and especially when making accusations of wrongdoing, it's important to clarify who/what you are talking about and not mix the two together. So far, there really has been only 2 complaints about The Gate and none about the Greeters.
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Post by thirt33n » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:36 am

yeah, i was just confused when someone mentioned the greeters being gifted stolen stuff from the gate.....i'm no longer confused,...just stoopid. :wink:
blow.

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Post by Toolmaker » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:09 pm

thirt33n wrote:yeah, i was just confused when someone mentioned the greeters being gifted stolen stuff from the gate.....i'm no longer confused,...just stoopid. :wink:
I only thought the greeters had gotten in on it when you had thanked the OP and made the mention of getting gifted stuff after all of it was stolen from gate. I'm glad to hear that the greeters are still group of folks that are righteous. I would hate to hear about the Greeters getting infected with the same disease thats infected PG&E and DPW.
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Post by thirt33n » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:31 pm

word. the fun really starts when you hug a greeter.
that's how it's always been for me which is why i became one.

there are not many people that are more disappointed with the gate and DPW than me. that's putting it lightly.

they are the barista at the coffee shop who tries to make you feel like an idiot for simply being there. they are the one who denies liking their favorite band as soon as the band get recognition. they are hiding under the guise of "non-conformist" meanwhile they all look and act the same.

homogenized independence. ha ha.

i must include my disclaimer: i know there is good amongst these groups including the awesome fellow in charge, cobra commander. if they all could only take a lesson from him.

they need a serious overhaul complete with re-training.

i represent the love we all love about home as best i can......so,...suck my love honeys
blow.

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Post by Gage » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:40 pm

RedheadBarbie wrote:
Toolmaker wrote:I even saw one media commerce hound there to make money justify his existance as a spectator in our community by saying its all good since he wore a tutu and his wife/gf gifted some blinky crap likely made in fookin china.
Misrepresent some one else. I SEWED with my own two hands the bandanas and costume pieces we gave out as well as what we wore. We are not traditional media. We do not publish anything from BM or any other lifestyle events. We used our cameras so I can go home and use the pictures to paint what I cannot remember, and we document our life, not the useless lives of a bunch of closed minded pricks.

If all you supposed 'participants' are so great at participating why was there no one else there for the figure drawing class, that I was at, and PARTICIPATED in?
RHB - Any ill-will towards the general media presence there holds you as an exception, and they should be modeling themselves after you. I'[ve read the mutliple posts involving media, and you really are in a different class of 'Media'... :)
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Post by mdmf007 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:34 pm

It would be a cold day in hell before I let any non-commisioned person confiscate any of my private posessions.

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Post by Coyote88 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:51 pm

yea sorry i meant the checkers gate
never had a bad interaction with the greeters
they were always nice, but that doesnt make up for theft by the first gate

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Post by gyre » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:54 am

Some greeters have a little too much pep!

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Post by thirt33n » Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:56 am

god, i hear that.
blow.

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I don't think he's talking about you, Miss Rouge...

Post by honeyfire » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:42 pm

RedheadBarbie wrote: We do not publish anything from BM or any other lifestyle events. We used our cameras so I can go home and use the pictures to paint what I cannot remember, and we document our life...
We are not traditional media.
-one sentence moved by me, for effect.

Well, sweetheart, if you're not publishing, you're not media. *smile*
Based on the description above, i believe the term is artist...
I'm just trying not to be liveMOOP...

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Post by Toolmaker » Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:17 am

RedheadBarbie wrote:
Toolmaker wrote:I even saw one media commerce hound there to make money justify his existance as a spectator in our community by saying its all good since he wore a tutu and his wife/gf gifted some blinky crap likely made in fookin china.
Misrepresent some one else. I SEWED with my own two hands the bandanas and costume pieces we gave out as well as what we wore. We are not traditional media. We do not publish anything from BM or any other lifestyle events. We used our cameras so I can go home and use the pictures to paint what I cannot remember, and we document our life, not the useless lives of a bunch of closed minded pricks.

If all you supposed 'participants' are so great at participating why was there no one else there for the figure drawing class, that I was at, and PARTICIPATED in?
Actually I wasn't refering to YOU.. I forgot your other half wears a tutu as well. I was refering to a guy that WOKE me up while photgraphing me sleeping with his massive flash jumbo pro camera. He in depth legalese speak excuse for his actions photographing me w/o my permission was some fuckstick anthropolgy study bullshit and claimed that he offset his income by having led blinkys gifted elsewhere by his wife/gf. I didn't run into either of you two on the playa. If neither of your are "working" the event as media than my remarks are not directed towards you. I understand and aprecciate photog geeks.. like the photoboof for instance. People that ASK permission before taking photos for their own personal use I have no problems with. I have problems with shitbirds filming me playing with flame cannons or snapping pictures of me as a homeless camper sleeping with a funny cardboard sign on my duffel on the streets of BRC. I will always see the professional media coming while "working the event for profit" as an affront to the no commerce nature of our community no matter what the ORGs stance on it is. I have no problems with DaBomb or other burners doing what they do. Its the mainstream pubs that sicken me with the whole drugged out hippie love fest lunatic freak festival crap. Look no further than the Malcom episode.. while it may have been funny in some small way I didn't see any "regular" folk in that episode and I meet dozens if not hundreds of regular folks on the playa. And since when do burners cover someones RV like they did in the Malcom episode. I saw many folks with BBQs in front of their RV and never saw a crowd thinkin it was performance art.
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:09 am

toolmaker, simple solution......volunteer at the checkers gate and start stealing cameras.


i hear what you are saying, it angers me as well, but i think it is a reflection of our society and culture as we spiral downward into national oblivion.

BurningMan is a barometer of sorts, and you are right, the forecast does not look too good.

what can we do about it? not much i'm afraid.

so, with that in mind, i suggest you kick back, pop open a chilly one, or whatever suits your fancy, and watch the decline of western civilization in all of it's glory hole.

Have a nice day.

:D
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Post by RedheadBarbie » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:03 am

Ahhh, I didn't know there was another tutu photog out there. Sorry if I got wound up there. Anyone claiming to be doing 'anthropological' work is supposed to be under the guidance of the AAA and it's clearly outlined in their ethics that what that guy did, photo'ing without permission, while you are sleeping, is completely against what they do. A real anthropolgist has to think about the field, and the future of research. They do not cause harm or alter the subjects.

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Post by Damok » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:12 am

"I was refering to a guy that WOKE me up while photgraphing me sleeping with his massive flash jumbo pro camera"

I don't blame you for being pissed off there!! I don't think I would be too happy about that either. I really wish some of these people would get a clue and act responsibly as they cause a lot of problems for those of us who do try to Document BM objectively and in a manner that doesn’t upset anyone else’s burn!

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Re: I don't think he's talking about you, Miss Rouge...

Post by Damok » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:16 am

honeyfire wrote:
RedheadBarbie wrote: We do not publish anything from BM or any other lifestyle events. We used our cameras so I can go home and use the pictures to paint what I cannot remember, and we document our life...
We are not traditional media.
-one sentence moved by me, for effect.

Well, sweetheart, if you're not publishing, you're not media. *smile*
Based on the description above, i believe the term is artist...
I suppose it’s all semantics. Technically we are media anyways as we have valid press credentials and shoot freelance for various papers. It just so happens that BM is not something we publish, but more the documentation of our life and travels. Having said that, we don’t want to be grouped into the standard “Personal Use Peopleâ€

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Post by unjonharley » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:23 am

The BMorg. should charge huge for media.. Other event do. All they have to do is limit to one or two.. Could even hook NBC if they charge enough

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Re: Whats the Deal? Trouble@Greeters Gate, Discovery Channel

Post by couglite » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:31 am

Coyote88 wrote: and also whats the deal with the discovery channel filming a reality show
at burning man with out any of our consent to be filmed??!?
The show in question was Daily Planet shown on Canadian Disovery Channel. Not reallly a reality show, but a science and exploration type show. I was surprised to see it on tv the other night. and while I agree that the commercialization of the project is a bit dismaying, this program was more about the artists and how they made their art. Specifically, they did articles on the Hand of Man, the Butterfly art car, the DSC and the Flaming Lotus Girls. They spent time with the artists throughout the year as they prepared for Burning Man and Burning Man was sort of an "aside" to the point of the logistics of building and transporting these massive art pieces. As far as I could see, there was not a lot of spontaneous "look at the wierdos" filming - there were clips with people who were obviously asked to participate commenting on Burning Man. It was actually really well done in my opinion. I am still looking for it to be posted on youtube.

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When in doubt, please assume i mean it nicely...

Post by honeyfire » Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:51 am

Damok wrote:I suppose it’s all semantics. Technically we are media anyways as we have valid press credentials and shoot freelance for various papers. It just so happens that BM is not something we publish, but more the documentation of our life and travels.
Not so much semantics here, as context.
Whatever you do do with your shots taken elsewhere has no particular bearing, it's the shots from the burn that are at question.
If you don't publish your shots from the burn, then, playaside, you're not media.
Not meaning to be cranky about it or anything, but this does seem like a time when having our terms clear is kind of important. *smile*

Damok wrote:Having said that, we don’t want to be grouped into the standard “Personal Use Peopleâ€
I'm just trying not to be liveMOOP...

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Post by mars » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:23 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:toolmaker, simple solution......volunteer at the checkers gate and start stealing cameras....

...what can we do about it? not much i'm afraid.

:D
Well, you can also volunteer to be a greeter and tell every car with cameras about playa photography etiquette. That's part of the power of being a greeter...you can let every car know exactly what you want them to know about BRC.
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Re: When in doubt, please assume i mean it nicely...

Post by Damok » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:38 am

It’s probably more snobbery than anything... lol

Actually I suppose I should rephrase the answer. There is no immediate intention to publish them, but at some point as part of a book, several probably will be, but not in the near future. As far as why I don’t want to be grouped in with the personal picture takers.. Firstly we really shouldn’t be, as we probably will be publishing a few pictures from the burn at some point. Secondly, we are professional photojournalists, and have a legitimate purpose for taking picture beyond just showing family and friends and prefer to do so in a professional manner with the correct credentials.

Since going digital in 2000 we have shot more than 1.8 million pictures so at some point some of these will be published outside of the newspapers we shoot for in book form.

I hope that clears things up. I know RHB and I can be somewhat militant about our photography. It’s our passion and our love, or at least its mine, RHB is more of a painter although she does love doing the photo’s and is very good at it. We try to totally immerse ourselves in what we are shooting. For example as I think it was said before, for BM, RHB made all our costumes and we both made the teardrop camper we stayed in. Barbie made tons of gifts to hand out and we really tried to document the burn as burners and not as media people. Whenever possible we tried to get permission before we shot, and really tried hard not to shoot pictures that would present anyone in a bad light.

Now I understand, not every media person acts like this, and believe me, I wish they did. But after a while we tend to get a bit annoyed at the Ban the Camera People. Once you start banning things that people don’t like, you end up banning everything…..

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