Shame on you Burning Man Organization.........

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ygmir
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Post by ygmir » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:31 am

wedeliver wrote:
Isotopia wrote: Stupid Fucking Idea of the Week(TM)
Is that SFIW OR SFIOTW, for short?

hummm, SFIOTW camp, would be interesting
haha, yeah, it'd be full of politicians............
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Post by oneeyeddick » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:58 am

That is the name of First camp this year.
We have an obligation to make space for everyone, we have no obligation to make that space pleasant.

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Post by Elderberry » Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:17 am

It is my understanding that the BMO and related organizations do a lot for the locals (I'm assuming this is tribes too). Like solar projects and others I have read about and can't recall now. Plus, they pay all appropriate fees to state and local governments for using the land. Not to mention that the influx of almost 50,000 people has to be a boost to the economy too.

So I don't really feel much sympathy for locals not getting super-discounted tickets, especially if it is true that they are selling them.

As far as the tribes are concerned--why don't they just open a casino? Then they could all afford a full price tickets.

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Post by oneeyeddick » Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:18 am

Tribal casinos don't fare so well in Nevada with all of the competition.
We have an obligation to make space for everyone, we have no obligation to make that space pleasant.

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Post by Harinama » Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:23 am

this site is so full of trolling, hateful losers, not sure why i even bother to view it.

The op had a LEGITIMATE issue, and others have responded with useless, hateful rhetoric.

Great idea: BM sell tickets to tribe cheap(ie. $50), but force them to be all will call with a list of tribe folks that plan to attend required, say 1 week before the event. Thus they would not be able to resell them to non-tribe folks.

This would be a pretty simple solution, imho.

The tribe puts up with a lot of crap from burners, which is a big downer. With all the talk about leave no trace, carbon footprints, gifting,etc, why do so many act like jerks?

The attitude of many posters on eplaya might yield some clues....
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Post by oneeyeddick » Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:36 am

First off , I would like to say "Fuck you" Harinama, nothing I said is rhetorical, I explained why they are doing it how they are this year.
nothing hateful coming from me, if you take the time to look.

This issue isn't about the tribe, it's about locals abusing the system, regardless that the OP thinks it's a personal attack.

They did the "will call" thing in the past...doesn't work, as the locals already have thier tickets sold way ahead of time, usually to the same people , every year. All they did was give the will call peole thier names, an wa-la, failure of that method working.
In that sense, they are "friends" of locals, but they rarely camp with them at all, they just get them in for the $$$ they make, otherwise they wouldn't know who they were.

Then you said "this site is so full of trolling, hateful losers, not sure why i even bother to view it. "

my suggestion is to stop, that will solve your problem, as you are just a hypocritical troll in the first place.
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Post by Isotopia » Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:39 am

Sort of like Camp "Hey, watch this!"

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Post by wedeliver » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:31 am

Isotopia wrote:Sort of like Camp "Hey, watch this!"

we got another winner..

CHWT (say it 3 times quick)



SFIOTW now has become a village... wow lets invite some indians to the village. What should we gift them? How about respect and dignity!
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Post by oneeyeddick » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:33 am

The PC word of the day is "Native Amercans".

(say it 3 times quick)
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Post by ygmir » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:38 am

if I was born here, am I not a native american?
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Post by oneeyeddick » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:47 am

You were born in bed.
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Post by Fire_Moose » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:38 pm

What ever happened to Ingens?
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Post by oneeyeddick » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:04 pm

Stick it up your manifold , Fire Moose.

FYI :

Before anyone else gets racist you will all be let known that I have a bizzare mix of ancestry in my blood, and I find it highly offensive to have my Great Grandmother's heritage to be behooved.

Now, who wants to pick on some rednecks ?
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Post by Da Mule » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:24 pm

I find it highly offensive to....be behooved
So now you gotta start picking on those with hooves?

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Post by Ugly Dougly » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:30 pm

oneeyeddick wrote:The PC word of the day is "Native Amercans".

(say it 3 times quick)
The Indians that I know don't like that term ^ at all.

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Post by oneeyeddick » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:36 pm

Some don't, some do, I think it depends on how well they know you and/or the color of your skin.

Kinda like the 'n" word, ya' know.
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Troll?

Post by SageV » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:11 pm

I'm not sure if the original poster is a troll, but I do have a suggestion. If she had posted first that she was looking for help instead of going on the attack, one of the veteran burners would have probably given her a ticket. I don't know about you all, but each year I buy two tickets: One for me, one for someone who I don't know yet to whom I will gift the experience.

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Re: Shame on you Burning Man Organization.........

Post by goathead » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:47 pm

Pyramid Lake Woman wrote:I am an enrolled member of the Pyramid Lake Paiute Tribe, and for the past 14 years that I've lived here on the reservation, I've watched every year as THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of burners travel through the rez. It is a yearly distruption to our daily life, that we have now come to accept. One of the perks that the Burning Man Organizers offer to Tribal Members is discounted tix for us and we have been allowed to take guests who are non-tribal at a greatly reduced price as well. In a way it was like compensation for all the BS that is associated with the burdening traffic (that's how I took it).......
This year the Burning Man Organizers raised the price of our Guest passes SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH......I'm very peeved by this. What did we do wrong to deserve this? My goddaughter was planning on coming down to join my daughter, but now we cannot afford to take her. I am really curious as to why the Burning Man Organization would take away this small perk from us tribal members?....No one at the Tribe's Environmental Department really seemed to have an answer to this. Are there any Burning Man Staff that can give me an answer as to why this severe price increase was penalized on us?????????????????
SHAME ON YOU.

The guest price have gone up for the locals up here also.

This has more to do with the BLM, and their head count per day then with Burning Man.

DEAL WITH IT.

Your lives are no way disrupted as ours are up here.

Plus they gave MORE then advanced notice of the change to forewarn people.

Be PISSED at the BLM.

quit your sniveling.
:evil:

its not about you or the Tribe.

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Post by goathead » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:49 pm

By the way OP Please feel free to do more then POST AND HIDE.

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Post by wedeliver » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:08 pm

come on people, lets treat each other with a little respect.
We might agree or disagree but instead of attacking the poster, reply to the post.

OP, as you can see some of us are troubled by your request, not for us to tread lightly, clean up our messes, drive safely past your homes, but for us to give you something. Perhaps you could have phrased your complaint in a way that we could understand and commiserate with you.

I hope that you manage overcome these challenges.
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Post by ygmir » Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:13 pm

oneeyeddick wrote:You were born in bed.
does that make me "native bed"?

and, if so,
who can we call:

"native back seat"
"native barn"
"native kitchen table"

etc, etc.........

and,
why does it matter the color of our skin regarding how we address eachother?

*looks for sensitivity button down arrow*
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Post by DoriumLux » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:01 pm

ygmir wrote:if I was born here, am I not a native american?
Something tells me you think you are hell of a lot more clever and funny than you actually are.

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Post by DoriumLux » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:04 pm

jkisha wrote:It is my understanding that the BMO and related organizations do a lot for the locals (I'm assuming this is tribes too). Like solar projects and others I have read about and can't recall now. Plus, they pay all appropriate fees to state and local governments for using the land. Not to mention that the influx of almost 50,000 people has to be a boost to the economy too.

So I don't really feel much sympathy for locals not getting super-discounted tickets, especially if it is true that they are selling them.

As far as the tribes are concerned--why don't they just open a casino? Then they could all afford a full price tickets.

JK

Wow. Open up a casino? So you think that Native Americans just have a load of money sitting around to open up casinos with? You also believe that everyone benefits from these casinos? Not. Try again. Also do a little research before you spew out your ass some more.

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Post by DoriumLux » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:10 pm

Fire_Moose wrote:What ever happened to Ingens?
You are being deliberately obtuse and offensive by using a term that is used as a racially offensive epithet towards Native Americans in a mild attempt to be humorous. Shame on you. You should feel like the fucking idiot that you are.

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Post by ygmir » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:13 pm

DoriumLux wrote:
ygmir wrote:if I was born here, am I not a native american?
Something tells me you think you are hell of a lot more clever and funny than you actually are.
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Re: Troll?

Post by DoriumLux » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:18 pm

Sage Venkman wrote:I'm not sure if the original poster is a troll, but I do have a suggestion. If she had posted first that she was looking for help instead of going on the attack, one of the veteran burners would have probably given her a ticket. I don't know about you all, but each year I buy two tickets: One for me, one for someone who I don't know yet to whom I will gift the experience.
If you suddenly found out that you couldn't afford go to Burning Man you might be pretty freaking bummed and go on a rant too. Right? Excuse her for being human and being upset about something that would be terribly upsetting to most of us. It's called empathy. Have you ever felt that feeling before?

She isn't a troll BTW.

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Post by Oldguy » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:39 pm

The economy is bad all over. The simple answer is that ticket sales are so bad they had to open sales at the gate this year. Tickets are avaiable at walk-in outlets at $280 still. $3oo online for a short period. $360 at the gate. There is a break even point that is variable. It will be interesting to see what the price structure is next year, I purchase a low income ticket.

On the race issue, every resident in this nation is an immigrant or descendants of immigrants, even " native americans". Genetic studies have shown tribal ancestors came fron Asia. This isn't the " native american's " land anymore than it is mine ( My greatgrandmother was Quapa, from the Ozarks.). Just like the middle east, the land existed before anyone moved in and took it. No race of people can " own " any land anywhere on Earth, unless they take it be force. The Earth belongs to no one but we are all responsible to what happens to it. We are all human.

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Post by DoriumLux » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:04 pm

Oldguy wrote: On the race issue, every resident in this nation is an immigrant or descendants of immigrants, even " native americans". Genetic studies have shown tribal ancestors came fron Asia. This isn't the " native american's " land anymore than it is mine ( My greatgrandmother was Quapa, from the Ozarks.). Just like the middle east, the land existed before anyone moved in and took it. No race of people can " own " any land anywhere on Earth, unless they take it be force. The Earth belongs to no one but we are all responsible to what happens to it. We are all human.

" Can't we just get along?."
I'm completely diverting from the topic...

However...

The fact that we are all essentially immigrants from Asia doesn't change the fact that Native Americans were viciously slaughtered in a North American holocaust by the US government who believed they "owned" the land. Outright genocide of Native children continued even through the 50's in the form of boarding schools. Reservations in the US are some of the most poverty stricken areas in this country. I volunteer along with my family to provide winter essentials, books for school libraries and other things for one of the largest reservations in the US in North Dakota. Most residents on this reservation do not even have electricity and rely on wood stoves to make it through the harsh winters in the Dakotas. Let alone very few have the luxury of running water on Pine Ridge.

P.S. The government and anthropologists have long used genetic studies that trace ancestry to Asia to further rape Natives of items of cultural patrimony, land and even ancestral bones. It's an argument that is used as a form of justification. I'm sure it would make your great grandmother roll in her grave or at least her parents if she really is Quapaw (correct spelling BTW) to hear you say this. Really, think about it.

We can all get along. However, some get along through life much more easily than others.

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Post by rodiponer » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:11 pm

Back to the original topic:
Until recently I lived a few blocks from a baseball stadium and large convention center. An average baseball game meant 30 to 37 thousand people in my neighborhood, sometimes every night a week. A single convention would add over 120 thousand people to my neighborhood, turning what was usually tranquil into chaos: a 5 minute drive became 45 minutes, some people would vandalize the trees, litter, or drive like complete douchebags.

This is life. You have no more right to the public roads and land than anyone else in America, even whenit is near your home.

So I feel the Org is being very generous for continuing this program at all, and that they owe you absolutely nothing. I certainly never expected discounted tickets to baseball games or large conventions just because I was inconvenienced by tens of thousands of people crowding into the city blocks around my house.

Further, I do not feel you have made good choices in the way you have chosen to construct your internal reality. There is a better way: choose to see people as individuals, not anonymous hoards whose mere presence imposes on your life .

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Post by MikeVDS » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:18 pm

The fact that we are all essentially immigrants from Asia doesn't change the fact that Native Americans were viciously slaughtered in a North American holocaust by the US government who believed they "owned" the land.

...

We can all get along. However, some get along through life much more easily than others.
A huge percentage of us have ancestors who had their land stolen and people murdered. My ancestors are Polish and Scottish. Am I entitled because of everything that was taken from them? I'm tired of this attitude "my grandparents were oppressed so now I'm entitled". It's that attitude that fucks people up more than anything "society" is doing. Look at the Japanese. They had their land stolen more recently, racism, and then the next couple major wars were against other Asian countries. Did they wine and say they deserved something or did their culture educate and work hard? If a "racial group" had the deck stacked against them in the late 20th century, it would be Asians. People who gripe about things that happened to their grandparents should take a look at successful examples rather than sulk in their grandparents misery.

As far as I can tell their tribe, or anyone for that matter, is not entitled to any discount from Burningman or anyone else who uses that highway. There are many events or groups of people that inconvenience me all the time. Am I entitled to compensation? No; because they are using public roads, property, etc. Sorry, if you don't like it, you can move somewhere else, petition government officials to built more or wider roads, or even get your local government to make another road. I like that the Org gives them discounts and if someone with a good attitude put up an on-line petition with all the facts I might be willing to sign it.

The reason she's being "attacked" is because her sense of entitlement where people do not believe she is entitled to anything (rightly so?). If she came with a different attitude that people should feel empathy for, perhaps she would get it. I'm empathetic that she has economic hardships, but if things are that hard you wouldn't be whining about Burningman of all things. I know people who are probably worse off and have a better attitude, those are the people I'd be defending, but the funny thing is they usually don't put themselves in a position where they need to be defended.
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