Sexual Violence

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
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Chimp
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Post by Chimp » Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:27 am

Have you heard of the expression 'Shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted' - This is what I think we have done in terms of all genocides, acted far too late, incl. WW2 - The US put Hitler on the cover of TIME before the war...I don't know

I think the same logic can unfortunately applied to trying desperatly to contain nuclear weapons - I don't have answers, just a lot of anger, frustration and bewilderment that I hope others share

And yeah,

I do think it is all pretty fucked
Last edited by Chimp on Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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OregonRed
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Post by OregonRed » Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:31 am

princess strych-9 wrote:
sugarlarry wrote: Countless billions have been spent on creating weapons that are designed to kill as few people as possible. In fact they are designed to fly through doors, and kill specifically who you are looking for rather then exterminate the population of an entire city. I'm not saying that this is something to respect, BUT it is an indicator that Western values are shifting..
shifting values, or a desire to cover their asses and not be regarded as mass murderers?


Unfortunately, I think it's the latter.
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sugarlarry
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Post by sugarlarry » Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:39 am

"just like the media"

Never before in human history h as there been greater access to information.

First of all, most Westerners can read - if not think critically. We all have a bit of dough, enough anyways, so that we can purchase any number of magazines or newspapers. Then there is the internet. The greatest information tool since the printing press, which is relatively cheap and easy to access, and continuing to grow.

Between the internet, print publications, television, and radio there are literally tens of thousands of choices. Yes. Most of the big outlets are in the pocket of big business, but there are tons that are not, and there are media sources available from other nations as well - thus creating a din of opposing viewpoints.

Then there is the issue of freedom of speech. People can say anything they want, and make all sorts of allegations implimenting to government - including the belief that it was the government (and their space lizard leaders) who actually brought down the WTC. There are even media sources that allow people to upload their own news- i.e Indymedia, though the stories there are about a million times more dubious then CNN, as there is no fact checking, no assumption of responsibility, and little more then people with axes to grind. Still... I'm glad it's there.

Yet strangely people complain that somehow this isn't enough. It's almost like we want somebody to come down and spoon feed us "The Truth". The problem is. This isn't going to happen. All information will always be diseminated by people with some sort of agenda. It is up to the individual processing the information to sort things out for themselves.

Again... not saying things are perfect when it comes to how we get our news, but actually they've never been better.

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gizray
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i agree...

Post by gizray » Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:43 am

that we have more choices than ever as far as where to receive info and news, but unfortunately the masses in the u.s. have not even come close to catching on. drones.

i am a consumbot. i consume, therefore i am.

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Post by sugarlarry » Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:44 am

"This is what I think we have done in terms of all genocides, acted far too late"

But the point is, we are now begining to act. We are begining to interfer when it happens. I can only imagine how unbelievably hard it must be to marshal the will required to do so. Sure it's pretty easy to just say "let's do something" while talking about it with strangers on the internet, but it's quite another to actually motivate nations, or groups of nations to act. Yet... this is starting to happen. The world is a far more organized place then it was a century ago, and it is getting harder for the worst of us to get away with anything with being exposed.

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TestesInSac
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Post by TestesInSac » Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:44 am

sugarlarry wrote:Yet strangely people complain that somehow this isn't enough. It's almost like we want somebody to come down and spoon feed us "The Truth". The problem is. This isn't going to happen. All information will always be diseminated by people with some sort of agenda. It is up to the individual processing the information to sort things out for themselves.

Again... not saying things are perfect when it comes to how we get our news, but actually they've never been better.
It's far easier to rail against that which is or percieved to be, than to put the mental effort into finding out what is and then shutting up, buckling down and doing something about it. And, IMO, the most disturbing element of radicals from all sides of an issue is that they rarely even want to know the truth if it doesn't fit their point of view.
I am my own sock puppet.

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Post by sugarlarry » Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:48 am

"but unfortunately the masses in the u.s. have not even come close to catching on. "

Well that's the rub isn't it. People have the freedom, and availabilty of radical ideas, and yet they aren't terribly interested in looking at them. What do we do about that. We certainly can't continue to hide behind the belief that there is a media conspiracy preventing people from having any access to "The Truth".

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Post by sugarlarry » Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:49 am

Damn you people... I have work to do. :(

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gizray
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.....

Post by gizray » Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:52 am

not a media conspiracy, not a govt conspiracy. just plain old corporate control of power. media and govt(military) are just tools.

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Stormy
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So

Post by Stormy » Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:57 pm

So we've got the violence part of the thread well covered. *ducks*
Be the change you seek in the world.

gabegirl
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sexual violence/ "How to Get Laid.."

Post by gabegirl » Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:15 pm

This has been one hell of an interesting thread. I'm liking all this critical, "big picture" thinking.. However, to veer wildly off/on topic, I've just checked out Viking's link to the "How to Get Laid at Burning Man" guide, and damn.. I don't know about some of this shit (namely, "Last Chance Snatch," which does not, to me, encourage any respect for women or their bodies, or aspects of "Bedroom Buzzkills" and "How to Get Laid"). Maybe my sense of humour ain't quite broad enough here, but my god. Does anyone else feel there is room for improvement? It seems that there was some attempt at both poking fun at and educating both the women and men who attend this event, but woops. Fine line between playful humour and misogyny, for some, I guess. I also think if there's an attempt at education, maybe we could delve a little deeper, rather than your typical "how to get a man off" Cosmo drivel, or giving a guy the idea that if a woman laughs at his jokes she will sleep with him? I guess "Top Ten Dicks to Avoid" was pretty good, and there's some other interesting and useful stuff in there (Dalai Lama VS Bush in "Enlightenment" etc). Really not trying to be snobby here, or throw out the baby with the bathwater, but I think we can come up with some better representation for BM. I guess I'm after something a bit cheekier and more subversive. Maybe I'll just have to write something.

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TestesInSac
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Re: sexual violence/ "How to Get Laid.."

Post by TestesInSac » Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:19 pm

gabegirl wrote:Maybe I'll just have to write something.
I think they call that 'participation'.
I am my own sock puppet.

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Badger
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Post by Badger » Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:23 pm

Waiting for PJ to stick his nose in this tent any moment....
Desert dogs drink deep.

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Post by gabegirl » Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:39 pm

Hell, yeah, I'm participating.. Woohoo! Viking, I like the "Girls' Guide/Boy's Guide" idea. Has any preliminary work been done? Sounds like fun... I'm up, anyone else? It would be cool to collaborate.

gabegirl
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Post by gabegirl » Sun Sep 21, 2003 4:10 pm

Oops, I killed it.. That didn't take much. Come on, ya pansies.. what the fuck. Did anyone read it?

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nymphgonebad
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Post by nymphgonebad » Sun Sep 21, 2003 4:17 pm

gabegirl wrote:Oops, I killed it.. That didn't take much. Come on, ya pansies.. what the fuck. Did anyone read it?
nope, didn't read it gabegirl. too busy having cyber sex. again.

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ramen
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Re: sexual violence/ "How to Get Laid.."

Post by ramen » Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:21 am

gabegirl wrote:... I've just checked out Viking's link to the "How to Get Laid at Burning Man" guide, and damn.. I don't know about some of this shit (namely, "Last Chance Snatch," which does not, to me, encourage any respect for women or their bodies, or aspects of "Bedroom Buzzkills" and "How to Get Laid"). Maybe my sense of humour ain't quite broad enough here, but my god. Does anyone else feel there is room for improvement?.
The original version of this pamphlet was an extremely funny and well-done parody. Sadly, it's now been improved with a large injection of sophomic and insultiing humor exactly as you describe.

I saw this child handing it out in Center Camp and I got one to get a yuck and was repelled the content. That one went in the burn barrel.

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Post by gabegirl » Mon Sep 22, 2003 11:48 am

Yeah, it pretty much sucks. I'm working on putting something different together. Tough thing is, how to "market" such concepts as respect to the slime suckin' roaches that perpetrate such crimes. I guess that was part of why the issue was so low-brow in certain respects, to get the yahoos to read it. Anyhoo, if anyone else has any opinions on what they think should/shouldn't be in there, or how it should be done, or theme camp ideas, PM me. I'm trying to talk it over with the publishers, etc., and thinking up alternatives.

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Post by gabegirl » Mon Sep 22, 2003 3:14 pm

Princess S/9 wrote:

nope, didn't read it gabegirl. too busy having cyber sex. again.


Well, with that new avatar, I'm not surprised. Yay! Ass..
In regards to ideas I'm rolling around, I think it would be most cool to have a truly comprehensive "How to Get laid" guide, with content for hets, queers, trans, SM, vanilla, whatever/whoever. With something in there addressing how BM opens up so much potential, how to put the right spin on that, and advice on what is cool and definitely not cool, etc.

Viking
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Yahoo Education Project needs YOUR help!

Post by Viking » Mon Sep 22, 2003 3:51 pm

The original version of this pamphlet was an extremely funny and well-done parody. Sadly, it's now been improved with a large injection of sophomic and insultiing humor exactly as you describe.
I agree too. I didn't have as much time to contribute material or even review material, and have been posting the info here because we definitely need more people to contribute (even editing to make sure the content fits the mission, as you can plainly see, would be a big help) to make it better.

This feedback is good, and I'm definitely passing on the info to the people that created those things you object to. I was more than a bit shocked by some of it, but since a woman created some of the grossest stuff, I figured it wasn't as offensive as my conscience was telling me...like maybe I was just being puritanical, so I didn't say anything at the time.

The ideas that gabegirl just wrote about are some of the things folks bandied about in this last year, but we could never get much to come to fruition. I think that the folks that put most of the work into making it such a good magazine in the past just didn't have the energy this time around, and the efforts were more focused on "new" rather than "better".

I think it if we can't pull off new material that's good, it would be better to have more of the subversive/educational recycled material from previous years, because the target audience is always the newbie/fratboy/fucktard element, for whom I'm sure it's all new anyway.

Absolutely the focus is intended to educate the kind of men and women who are likely to be predatory, filming without permission, rude, steal art or stuck in the 'free market' mentality (want to be catered to, expect to find trinkets they can buy, don't get the difference between give and barter).

So, once again I extend the invitation:
JOIN and help us make it BETTER!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bmy-eds/

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BMGTGL

Post by gabegirl » Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:13 pm

I'm in. it would also be cool to have an army in hot pants handing the new and improveds out. You know, marketing.. (and an excuse to show off)! Kinda cheesy, but effective. Sort of like those car shows.. but more subversive.

Kinetic

Post by Kinetic » Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:47 pm

Script Writer Revolt....this section was edited because I felt like it.....

It does need to be cleaned up a bit. I hope the suggestions to add homo's, trans, and other groups info to it is considered...it would be a chance to enlighten some of the militaristic hetero's out there. And not just the fratboy types already mentioned.
Last edited by Kinetic on Mon Sep 22, 2003 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kamakhya
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Post by Kamakhya » Mon Sep 22, 2003 6:16 pm

There was a child handing them out in Center Camp? That shouldn't have happened.
Aw Kinetic, where is your sense of humor!?! It was my daughter in Center Camp and she had a blast handing them out. FWIW, she asked me to let her hand them out.

Yes, she read the pamphlet, or as much of it as she desired to, and we talked about it. I don't hide sexuality from her, so that aspect really didn't bother me.

As someone has already said, many of the ideas bandied about here were bandied about among our group prior to publishing. We did try to include more regarding gay sex this issue, but there is only so much space in any given issue.

And for those who would like to see something in the pamphlet, by all means join the group and contribute.

Kamakhya

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ramen
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Post by ramen » Mon Sep 22, 2003 11:47 pm

Kamakhya wrote:
There was a child handing them out in Center Camp? That shouldn't have happened.
Aw Kinetic, where is your sense of humor!?! It was my daughter in Center Camp and she had a blast handing them out. FWIW, she asked me to let her hand them out.

Kamakhya
And a very cute child she was, too. I got a lift seeiing this kid handing out the flyer. It was cute!

I'm game to do some uplift on this missive.

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BlueBirdPoof
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here here

Post by BlueBirdPoof » Mon Oct 06, 2003 4:09 pm

Lydia Love wrote:
young, firm, and perky body
provocative, and tempting, and sometimes not appropriate for exposure
unleash my taut, barely legal body
I do not for a second believe this writer is a woman. or sentient for that matter.
Yeah, it sounds like those penthouse letter ostensibly written by women. I was wondering what some idiot high school boy was doing on e-playa.

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BlueBirdPoof
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here here

Post by BlueBirdPoof » Mon Oct 06, 2003 4:10 pm

Yarg! yarg! yarg!

I accidentally posted it twice.

How gauche.
Last edited by BlueBirdPoof on Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BlueBirdPoof
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"Seduction"

Post by BlueBirdPoof » Mon Oct 06, 2003 4:14 pm

Sunset804 wrote: I was talking about men who manipulate and push and push and push and then are proud of their "conquest" (getting their way). He felt he had "seduced" me. I felt very coerced/manipulated. The issue was true seduction is not manipulating a person into submission but it brings forth genuine desire. This man thought he was "seducing" with all his manipulating behavior when really my experience was that he was coercing/borderline forcing himself. This creates a foulness instead of the "love" sex should bring.
I suspect that in the 19th century "Seduction" was a times a euphamism for rape--and that lingers to this day. . .

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BlueBirdPoof
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Re: thread gone mad

Post by BlueBirdPoof » Mon Oct 06, 2003 4:47 pm

debkakes wrote: the party seeking intercourse should not be trusted to interpret vague signals that indicate reluctance or disinterest. "ummm...I don't know" does not mean no..
I don't know. Maybe if we all took a vow not to have sex unless our prospective partner(s) were screaming "Take me! Take me now!!" we'd all have better sex.

Yum

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shitmouse
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fucking weirdos......

Post by shitmouse » Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:01 pm

we stepped into a sexual preditor stalking a chick last year while walking down a street in brc. the girl being stalked came up to us and told us that this guy had been following her for several blocks. she was seriously scared on a serious level.

we saw immediately what was happening, and cut right in on him.

we stopped him and started asking questions so that we could get some space between the girl he was following and himself. we caught him off guard,as he was so set on his target that we almost had no effect on him.
so we physically stood in the way and started to core into him a bit harder stating to him that his over-the-top presence of stalking this girl was very noticable and that she was obviously very uncomfortable with his actions.

he mumbled something and didn't take his eyes off the girl the entire time we had interviend, and we were right in his face on purpose.

so, we kept the dork busy till the girl was way long gone and out of sight, then we let him go. in hind site, i wish we would have taken a bit more action in regards to rangers. i know it's not their job to deal with this kind of thing, but who was next on his greasy list?

creeps are everywhere...................
-b
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BlueBirdPoof
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Re: fucking weirdos......

Post by BlueBirdPoof » Tue Oct 07, 2003 3:28 pm

shitmouse wrote: i wish we would have taken a bit more action in regards to rangers. i know it's not their job to deal with this kind of thing
-b
I think that sooner or later it has to be thier job. After all, as far as I know, they (or a small select few of them) are the only one within the BMorg with the power to throw people off the playa. And getting the documentation on that creep started so he could be disposed of sounds like a good idea to me. Doesn't our "radical self-reliance" include not letting things get to LEO if we can help it? And if nothing else they could have directed you to who would be the appropiate person.

Of course, maybe a ranger can give us better idea of how to proceed.

(besides, I have this lovely vision of this guy being followed by successions of pairs of the biggest, scariest rangers educating him in the error of his ways for the rest of the event. . .)

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