Should BM ban motorized scooters (except art vehicles) ?

[tbone]

I am also ennoyed by generators in private camps, and I don't think I am the only one either. For the generator problem, I think if could be fair to create a "generator tax", say $300 to have the right to use a generator, and this would offset the price of the ticket for burners that can live a week with no electricity.

You want me to pay $300 to run a welder that I use to fix people's art cars and other broken shit?

We spent our days working on peoples' projects and bikes. We fixed shade structures, art cars, broken trailer hitches, the Bronco with the HUGE flame throwers, added flame throwers to a Suzuki, fixed countless bicycles, and much, much more.

Sorry, but you can't run a big welder without a generator.

Bringing many thousands of dollars of tools to the playa, and using them all day to fix your stuff (for free) is my "art". It's my gift in our little "gift economy".

I get shit from people because I don't wear costumes (so I must be a spectator), and now I get shit for using a generator? Bah!

Yes, I completely understand that there are lots and lots of generators running nothing more than a strand of Xmas light, and I'd love to see them go 12v or go home.

How about fewer rules?

I ran a 12v 35watt light all week when I needed light (a magnetic base let me stick it to the side of my truck and point it where I wanted). I never needed to charge my battery (yes, it's seperate from my starting battery).

-how about a $300 "stupid tax" if you make something that breaks and want to use it later in the week?

[tbone]

I guess that I have always thought that a progressive society was one that has figured out how to get rid of petroleum reliant machines.

Interesting thought.

However, with over 30,000 people in attendance, you must understand that there are probably no universal agreed upon ideas.

It's great that you have a definition of "progressive society", but don't expect me or 30,000 other people to agree with it.

I bet you don't agree with a good friend of mine who says (and believes) "wasting gas is burning it in a Yugo". He gets 6 mpg in his big ass truck.

Just trying to point out that there's lots of opinions out there.

[tbone]

a couple of years ago, some guy brought 3 camels, that was fun. can you bring an elephant, too ?

May have been fun, but he 100% refused to comply with "Leave No Trace". His camels shit all over the place, and when given the choice to clean it up or leave, he chose to leave. And he was a whining dickhead about it. He claimed that he "got chased out" of BM.

Fucktard.

One of the riders of the camels said something to me that later became somewhat infamous, especially in Gigsville. He was riding away on a camel that had just shit in the middle of my camp. When I pointed out that perhaps he didn't know his animal shit there, he continued to ride away. After a short exchange, he answered with "it's not my camel" and rode off.

It helped develop my finely honed sence of hatred towards fuckwits at the burn. I took home several pounds of camel shit in my trash, and was glad when they left.

Any reference to camels in Gigsville came from that exchange. Next time you're there, look for camel stuff.

[TestesInSac]

How about fewer rules?

Damn, I like Gigsvillans.

[attydog]

This year I started with a goldf cart. I tore that sucker down and rebuilt her in the exact likeness of a Ford Taurus. It was fucking incredible work. I drove her around like a proud father at precisely 4.5 mph only to be booed and heckled by the ignorant, and finally shut down for good by the holier than thou DMV. shit.

[Kinetic]

To weigh in on this debate...unless it's a bike, if it has wheels it should be licensed by the DMV as an art car, disabled transport excluded. And as for generators, I brought one...and it was too loud. So I'm tapping into e-playa and the BM community to either find a quieter one at a reduced cost or find ways to quiet what I have...or supplement it with solar or wind power. I also respect my campmates and muffle it or turn it off when not in use....so it works out well.

And the P-51 Mustangs / scooters were awesome and have me thinking of a similar project for next year.

[tbone]

How about fewer rules?

Damn, I like Gigsvillans.

Where are you located? There's most likely 'villians there.

Of course, most of them are unaproachable.

[TestesInSac]

How about fewer rules?

Damn, I like Gigsvillans.

Where are you located? There's most likely 'villians there.

Of course, most of them are unaproachable. ;)

Sacramento. If they're here, I wonder if they've heard of Aldawg, Dr. Brick and the Horsecow?

[evie]

I don't think motorized scooters should neccesarily be banned but it would be nice if they were decorated and well lit. I was tripping around on the playa on foot one night(well lit with glowsticks) and within ten minutes my friends and I were almost ran down by two different scooterists with out lights and trust me they had no respect for pedestrians. So yeah lights should be a requirement. What ever happened to the good old fashioned push scooter I still have mine done up as a bumble bee but i did'nt see anyone else. I know there not practical for long distance playa travel but they are perfect for neighborhood exploring and bathroom scoots.

[attydog]

What would you do with this?
The Segway looks rather unadorned, no?
That wheel's got no blinking things on it for christ's sake!
Where's the EL wire? What's his playa name? Why isn't he wearing a kooky furry hat?
Stone him! Fine him!

[Viking]

Hey Fuckwits!

Scooters (unless they are extensively modified and decorated and licensed with the DMV) are already banned!

It's not a moral fucking issue or a left wing conspiracy to limit your adolescent pleasure, it's part of the agreement between Burning Man LLC and the BLM for holding the event: no motorized vehicles unless designated as "art car" and licensed through the DMV. Period. Includes electric carts and mopeds and scooters, not just automobiles, and not just internal combustion engines. Blame the feds, not your fellow burners.

The only vehicles that are not prone to ticketing by law enforcement unlicensed are human powered vehicles. Period.

Next year the BLM is threatening to disallow ALL art cars if BMorg doesn't get a handle on the problem. We need to take back the streets ourselves or there will be no moving vehicles except for (probably) DPW trucks and forklifts. Seriously. Just think about the revenue they'll generate ticketing you for riding in your scooter or electric cart.

Next time you see one undecorated, you are completely justified in removing all the air from their tires.

Air pressure is a privelege, not a right!

[tbone]

Hey Fuckwits!

Scooters (unless they are extensively modified and decorated and licensed with the DMV) are already banned!

Actually, from the DMV FAQ, I quote:
Q. I've got one of them nifty scooters -- do I need a license for that?
A. No, so long as it is designed for the transportation of a single standing passenger. Vespas and similarly styled vehicles are considered mopeds/motorcycles, and they do need a license. Make sure that you observe the speed limit and the NO DUST rules!

I may be a fuckwit, but I'm a well informed fuckwit.
Here's the entire FAQ.

[Viking]

I stand corrected. Thanks T-bone. I have been on the art car list, listening to the shit slinging about all the unlicensed vehicles and got the distinct impression from the DMV hotties there that scooters were not OK.

Sorry for the mis-information.

[Tristan]

> Q. I've got one of them nifty scooters -- do I need a license for that?

The term "motorized" is not there, so the question is for non-motorized scooters.

I don't think the answer would have been the same for motorized scooters.

[tbone]

I read it as a motorized single person stand up scooter, but not a Vespa sit down style scooter.

The DMV doesn't get into human powered stuff do they?

All that aside, if there's going to be licenses, they should apply to everything with an engine - even scooters.

And boy is my art car going to push a lot of buttons next year. Don't worry, it'll be slow and it won't make dust. <evil grin>

[precipitate]

> The DMV doesn't get into human powered stuff do they?

Nope. They explicitly don't. Though they do say that any vehicle --
human, wind, or hamster powered -- must obey the dust and
speed rules.

Interestingly, I've seen this applied to windsurfers, but never to
bicycles.

[ecliptic]

The obvious solution to this dilemma is not to enact a LAW banning the use of scooters, but to make scooter use so fucking unpleasant that anyone who foolishly brings an annoying scooter to the event never takes it out of their RV.

My suggestion?

Portable clothslines.

Preferably made out of piano wire.

So how does piano wire discriminate between a bicycle and a scooter?

[precipitate]

> So how does piano wire discriminate between a bicycle and a scooter?

Does it matter? At 5 mph the driver of either should be able to see and
avoid the obstacle.

[Tristan]

> The DMV doesn't get into human powered stuff do they?

I don't think they do, but they definitely get also into wind-powered stuff (non-motorized). Wind-powered vehicles need a permit (i had one).

> All that aside, if there's going to be licenses, they should apply to everything with an engine - even scooters.

I think so, that was always my understanding.

[seandee]

I had the same annoyance about motorized scooters and such, but I posted this topic here http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... highlight=
I figure that in order to avenge my sensibilities, I should at least do something participatory and fun, because you know, some of them folks may just not know, and there are only so many Rangers, we should be able to take care of ourselves without nominating someone else to do the dirty work. Who is up for creating a group of Scooter scooper art car/theme camps (read that post for my idea)?

[PJ]

So how does piano wire discriminate between a bicycle and a scooter?

By the pitch of the resulting musical note.

[bradDaDad]

Ahh, the gift of music!

[Ben]

I am one of those electric scooter users. It was just plain fun (sorry) and I drove responsibly (sorry) and it was charged off solar power from our roof top panels which were probably in some way contributing to some form of irritation to someone, perhaps reflective brightness, or upstream contributing to the earth's pollution (sorry), and it allowed me to participate more fully and interactively in B-man. So just where does the legislation stop? "...there is short one who doesn't like the tall one, for being such a smart one who doesn't like cool one, differerent strokes, for different folks, and so on and so on and scooby dooby doowa!"

[Tristan]

Electric scooter recharged by solar batteries are definitely better than 2-stroke engines, but I think this is the exception. Most motorized scooters I have seen (and heard!) were 2-stroke and non-decorated.

Was your scooter an art vehicle with DMV permit ?

If not, did you use it for medical reason, or just for standard deplacements (i.e. replacement for a bicycle) ?

Just curious...

[Ben]

Hey Tris' The scooter was modestly decorated with el wire and glow lights. It was used as my conveyance to shoot art as I have done for many years and as an escort vehicle for the "mother ship": motorized sofa which went out to various sites to dispense fresh squeezed orange juice. Yo! It has a range of 25 miles and I went through 2 batteries easily. As you know to appreciate the playa you can be out/in there constantly and never get to the end of it...all you burning man people!

[III]

>to shoot art

i wanna do that. how did you get around the firearms restrictions?

[Ben]

"Papal" dispensation from Larry Harvey

[tbone]

>to shoot art

i wanna do that. how did you get around the firearms restrictions?

I suck at shooting left handed.

[christo]

AND - It is high time that the LLC deal with the real problem - BICYCLES!
I hate them. They are a danger and ennoyance. Every year I have been pushed into a briar patch of parked bicyles only to stumble and get clawed by sharp projecting things, pedals and bars. THINGS WITH PEDALS SHOULD BE BANNED! I think there shoud be a tax of $300 for anything with bars sticking out to compensate for the cuts and scrapes doe to the legs of BRC citizens.

It is very easy to go fast with a bicycle. Christ, the speed limit is 5mph and anybody can run that fast. There is no reason on God's earth why anyone needs more than there two legs to travel in BRC.

Also a bike requires less effort than walking, as a consequence you see lots of careless (dangerous) and fast biking.

Also the things never go where they are pointed. I never know whether one of those contraptions is going to pass ahead or behind me. The front tire points all over the place. I say get rid of bikes. Al least the scooters go where they are pointed.

It's just fine if they are art vehicles, decorated and interesting/funny/weired/etc, or if they are used for medical reasons. But I think it's a bad idea to allow bicycles on the playa as a basic transportation to replace walking just because "it's more fun" ... and less of an effort to those who can afford them.

Bicycles create danger and annoyance on the playa and don't bring anything good to our community.

[Tristan]

Very funny...

But bicycles are good for your health. They are a good physical excercice recommended by your doctor, and they save time compared to walking (which is also good and more relaxing).

Motorized scooters are not a good source of exercice!