BBadger wrote:What if all the money is recycled back into the camp, such that there is no net profit?
making no net profit is still gaining monetarily... vendor camps end up not needing to spend anything because they can rely on the clients who pay cash money to stay there... they get a free ride on the backs of those whom theyve allowed to turn their camp into a commodity
So now there's something wrong because someone did not have to spend money? Is this now about paying the piper? To whom? Who is doing the commodifying here?
Why does someone else's monetary gain lead you to do less, or change your ways?
because youre being exploited.
You're only exploited
if you feel entitled
to a cut of the action. But then you're bringing stuff to the playa to share for free
. What have you lost? Or have you lost because someone else has gained? Did you give freely, or conditionally?
Since when does a true believer say "if I can't beat 'em, I'll join 'em"?
look at what "Mr Redundant" person who runs a VIP/plug n play/vendor camp said in 2011: issue two, inside page, bottom right http://brcweekly.com/ "I've been going to burning man for 14 years. I've busted my ass building theme camps, building the Temple, doing DPW, I've gone through the gamut and in 2007 I had the epiphany of 'Fuck this shit, I might as well get paid for it.'".
What does that have to do with the "true believer"? Mr. Redundant lost his way a long time ago
tallying up his "good works" far before he ever made the connection to make some dough on it. You see that kind of participation-entitlement all over this board ("ooo, I brought X, so I deserve Y!"). The only difference we're seeing here is that now some money has exchanged hands, but really nothing fundamental has changed.
He aint the only one,.. and true believers or not.. encouraging his type of behavior surely aint gonna be good for the community because there surely will be people who were, or are currently true believers, as you say, who will feel exploited, jaded and cheated by the encouragement of the gutting of their core values who will take their disgruntlement out in the form of: if i cant beat em, i'll join em..
I don't see this connection. Your values are gutted and so your next move is to... get in on that action? It's like seeing deplorable acts of rape occurring around you and in despair you start raping people too?
Or is this more to say that burners are really nothing more than the same people who would profit from the burn? That the potential to sin is inherent; that it is expected
that you cast aside your values when enticed? Like some Muslims expect of men when women wear no veils? In such a case, is BM just one big phony face we put on to pretend
we adhere to the values? That burners only practice what they preach because they're bound by shame and incentives?
You know, after what I've seen these past few months in the wake of the ticket debacles, maybe the latter is simply true: you can't expect more from most (not all) "burners". Maybe we do have to corral the masses lest they stray. We've seen so many examples of this with all the participation-entitlement, scapegoatery, and other bullshit
that has crept out of the woodwork since tickets could not be had by all.
We should expect no better. We're only human right? To protect the illusion
that is Burning Man, we need to adopt policies similar to how organized religions to keep their members in line--and keep the heretics at bay. The sheep cannot be trusted
to choose correctly. They gravitate
towards evil without the shepherds.
the problem is that we the people cannot be the sole protectors of the community. the real stewards of this community are the people running burning man: the BRC LLC...
if they are giving these camps access to tickets, placement, assistance and encouragement.. no amount of occupy type community bullshit is gonna get them out, as will chase said: these camps are here to stay
And to what extent does the LLC involve itself in our camp lives to ensure we're not straying towards heresy?
I mean, hell, I pay "camp dues" and somebody else sets up the camp evap pond and most of the kitchen tents. Am I now engaging in this PnPism? Or are my sins absolved because I helped bring some of the parts?
Or does it have to do with how much
was paid? I certainly didn't drop $10k to join this camp, evap pond or not, but $50/a person isn't chump change (though I've heard very good compared to many other camp dues). The increase in dues supposedly went into buying the camp's a storage container. Does that count though? I mean, even if the net amount of money spent does not result in profit, that is still "gaining monetarily" by that previous definition right?
Or does it have to do with camp obligations, like the fact that my sub-group had to make one meal for the camp the entire week? So now I'm cleared? I've participated more than a bench-warming PnPer? Or not, because that was an obligation
I'm confused. What is the standard here? I don't want to be labeled a PnPer when the Inquisitors arrive because I really don't think I am, but then again I've also partaken of camp stuff done by other people--and paid for it in some way as well. Maybe the decision will be as arbitrary as the remaining 10k ticket allocation?
This whole what-constitutes-a-Plug-and-Play camp really seems very subjective and arbitrary. Can we please have a real definitions?
Perhaps I can buy an indulgence from the LLC just in case?
whether the community doesnt value this behavior or not,.. it appears that the stewards and true arbiters of what is allowed apparently disagree..
If only they had hired some inquisitors
private investigators to root out the heretics
commodifiers. Suffer not a Plug & Play to camp and all that. The participation police.
and thats where the problem lies.. we have to look to the LLC to solve some of the problems that we cant fix ourselves...we cant deny these camps access..and we cant kick them out...
Can we also kick out those camps with dues? Those damn people collecting money for rideshare gas? People who pay inflated prices in Reno? The people who use Kickstarter for project funding? The people who helped fund MVs, but didn't actually build them? Those assholes who charge $3/bag for ice (fuck those transportation costs; they should want to bring it in for cost)? The people collecting aluminum cans only, to recycle for cash?
I mean holy shit, why stop at PnP camps? Let's get rid of all the people who participated in some monetary transaction that benefited someone.
it appears here, that the community cant fix a problem that they believe is a problem.. because the LLC is apparently openly encouraging it.
I saw no encouragement. Or is it that silence is tacit approval? Or that because they didn't arbitrarily terminate placement of camps that had some video on the net that this is encouraging such behavior?
the net result is that no matter how true to our beliefs we are, how important our values are.. we wont be able to control this.. we cant strangle them out..... because from the highest positions these camps are being encouraged.
No need to even bother with a populace that holds that kind of outlook.
This year is awesome. The ticket scarcity sure has facilitated the airing of true colors. Burgin hate, railing against "Plug and Play" camps (as if they didn't exist before this year), anger and hope abandonment at every step in the ticket process, participation-entitlement, etc. What more, all those lovely things that people hate about religions are popping up: the Puritan-esque "good works" piety, the inferiority complexes, the faith abandonment, the xenophobia, the calls for inquisitions against heretics.
What a cute microcosm this all is.
If this is how it is, let's get this shit over with. It's just a running farce.
I think we'll end up fine.