DMV: Enlightened bureaucrats or playa nazis?

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Dr. Pyro
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DMV: Enlightened bureaucrats or playa nazis?

Post by Dr. Pyro » Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:10 pm

We just got a form letter saying our art vehicle has been denied even though it meets and exceeds every objective "standard" and requirement that the DMV put into place. You people should be ashamed of yourselves; if I wanted to be told what to do, I might as well stay home and next year, I just may.

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Stormy
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Post by Stormy » Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:01 pm

Denied with no reason??
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Re: DMV: Enlightened bureaucrats or playa nazis?

Post by bdongray » Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:08 pm

Dr. Pyro wrote:We just got a form letter saying our art vehicle has been denied even though it meets and exceeds every objective "standard" and requirement that the DMV put into place.
Do you have any photos we can see online?

Are you going to bring it anyway? with a hope that the DMV may change their decision, especially when you show you exceed all the requirements, and they can see it!
The problem with that is the gate crew will probably impound it, and you will not get a chance to plead your case with the DMV by being able to show it to them. But if you leave it at home, and you find out what is bad - and you could have been able to fix it - then everyone loses out!

I've had a thought that there will be a major blockage at the gate due to all the impounding of vehicles that sounds like is going on!
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Isotopia
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Post by Isotopia » Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:53 pm

Placement of unapproved vehicles at Long Term Parking won't take place at the gate. The vehicle itself just won't get past it.

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Post by ness » Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:16 pm

tell us about you so called "art car"

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Dr. Pyro
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Post by Dr. Pyro » Mon Aug 23, 2004 4:33 am

It is more of an art truck. We will bring it because the back of it is carrying things we need for camp so it has to come regardless. It's an old Ford truck that the hood is now covered in hand-done rock mosaic, the sides are permanently altered and adorned with hundreds of neckties; the back has a second deck, safely double-welded on (the idea is that is can carry 20 people and meets the safety standards to do just that), it has 150 feet of ropelites illuminating the entire vehicle along with a strobe light for dancing and special effects; in the back carried a 50 gallon propane tank which is used to fire up our flamethrower. The upperdeck is painted gold and will also be adorned with the aftermentioned ropelites and has gold painted foam rubber handles for safety around the entire upper parameter. It has an extra step welded to the back bumper so people can safely go on and off the back without risk of falling either under the vehicle or its side. I could go on and on, and if I personally owned said vehicle I probably could. Suffice it to say, it is permanently altered and can really now only be used for an event such as Burning Man, meets and exceeds every safety standard put into place, is visually appealing, is interactive (fire and dancing), not to mention is a centerpiece of our camp. So eplayans, what do you think?

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Post by Simply Joel » Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:07 am

I think "a picture is worth a thousand words."

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Post by Dr. Pyro » Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:08 am

Can't post pictures with this damn Tandy 2000 or whatever cheapo computer thingy I have. The pictures we sent DMV under seperate cover (as required) were "lost/misplaced" by the DMV. And since the form letter/e-mail gives no spacific reason for our being denied and it states that there is no appeal process (which is why I am taking this issue to the court of public opinion), I'm not sure what to do. The owner of said art vehicle, Lee, can be reached at lee@starstream.net if you should be so inclined. He might be able to shoot over some pictures. Wish us luck.

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Post by Tancorix » Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:41 am

As I've said elsewhere, remember this when the Town Hall meeting comes up in December. There's obviously a broken process here regarding the pictures and application submissions.

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Post by Simply Joel » Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:44 am

Dr. Pyro wrote:Can't post pictures with this damn Tandy 2000 or whatever cheapo computer thingy I have. The pictures we sent DMV under seperate cover (as required) were "lost/misplaced" by the DMV. And since the form letter/e-mail gives no spacific reason for our being denied and it states that there is no appeal process (which is why I am taking this issue to the court of public opinion), I'm not sure what to do. The owner of said art vehicle, Lee, can be reached at lee@starstream.net if you should be so inclined. He might be able to shoot over some pictures. Wish us luck.
send them to CowbotAngel... he'll post just about anything.

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Post by ness » Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:51 pm

One less thing to stir-up dust.

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DMV

Post by tsunami » Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:14 pm

Without a doubt the DMV is crossing the line of what Burning Man stands for. No one goes to BM to be told that there art isnt art.I was at the real DMV today and the similarities are earily obvious. One day late on registration... not enough rope lights on this puppy. Don't they get it. I understand that as the event grows in size rules will begin to form; but at what point does it go to far? The possiblity of BM holding true to its roots over time is small. Its just the nature of existance. And i already see it. We should all enjoy it while its here like EVERYTHING else. I'll do my part to keep it the way it should be and so should everyone else. But when the cancer is on the inside its tricky to spot. An apeals commitee must take be present for all reasons.
forever burn...

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Post by Tiahaar » Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:46 pm

Dr. Pyro wrote:Can't post pictures with this damn Tandy 2000 or whatever cheapo computer thingy I have.
Dang, having one of those on-lone at all is art in itself (I have a soft spot for Tandy having grown up on TRS-80 and the 1000 series).

DMV deserves credit for taking the heat by being the one to have to keep Burning Man vehicle use within the limits of the BLM event permit is the feeling I pick up after reading the why's of the Mutant Vehicle pre-registration process. "They" are "Us" after all.
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Re: DMV

Post by Wendor » Mon Aug 23, 2004 4:32 pm

tsunami wrote:Without a doubt the DMV is crossing the line of what Burning Man stands for.
Really? According to who?

It amazes me the number of people who are so quick to declare "What Burning Man stands for" without realizing that all they are stating is what their personal opinion is of their personal experience.

Quite honestly, no one but Larry and the org can really weigh in on "What Burning Man stands for". All you can contribute is "What you personally would like Burning Man to stand for" or "What Burning Man means to you personally". If those vary to widely from what Larry and the org choose to do then you should always feel free to organize your own event that better matches your personal wishes.

If you go back and check, I think you will find that at no point has anyone ever officially said that Burning Man stands for:
1. No rules
2. Do anything you want regardless of the impact on others
3. Bring and display anything you call art with no restrictions whatsoever.

So what exactly is the line that you feel that the DMV has crossed? And, more importantly, how is the line you see any different from:
1. "I want to bring my drive-by shooting gallery"
2. "I want to camp in Center Camp/At the base of the Man/any damn place I pelase"
3. "I want to burn my art without restrictions, concerns for the playa, etc. and don't want to clean up afterwards"

Remember, every moving vehicle in the city has an impact on the playa and on EVERY participant. Therefore it is simply not possible to allow all mutant vehicles (or non-mutant vehicles) without restriction. And the opposite alternative, no vehicles at all, isn't a pleasant one either. So some compromise must be reached just as was reached with other forms of art. Explosives and firearms are no longer allowed despite that they were integral to some people's "art". There is no appeal process for those choices, they are simply the conditions of the event. If your art involves firearms or explosives you have to find a different venue than Burning Man. Similarly, some art cars will have to find alternate venues as well.

Could the DMV approval process be improved? Of course. And it will continue to improve and evolve in future years.

Is it in opposition to "What Burning Man stands for"? No.

Is an appeals process a good idea? Maybe (No one really knows yet)

Is it a certainty that an appeals process is necessary? No. Many of the restrictions of the event don't have an appeals process either. (or need one)

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Post by Badger » Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:47 pm

An apeals commitee must take be present for all reasons.
Not a bad idea. I'm assuming you'll be ready to jump in and contribute as a volunteer as soon as the event is over this year?
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Post by Badger » Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:48 pm

Without a doubt the DMV is crossing the line of what Burning Man stands for.
BTW, can you elaborate for some of us just what Burning Man stands for? I've been trying to figure it out for the last 11 years.
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Post by unjonharley » Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:53 pm

Badger wrote:
Without a doubt the DMV is crossing the line of what Burning Man stands for.
BTW, can you elaborate for some of us just what Burning Man stands for? I've been trying to figure it out for the last 11 years.

/\
Good question. I too would like to hear your answer.
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What Burning Man stands for

Post by BurnScar » Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:55 pm

Well if they lie him down, kinda hard to see the Man across the playa.

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Re: What Burning Man stands for

Post by unjonharley » Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:59 pm

BurnScar wrote:Well if they lie him down, kinda hard to see the Man across the playa.
/\
HUH?
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Post by BurnScar » Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:02 pm

That's what he stands for.

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Post by unjonharley » Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:09 pm

BurnScar wrote:That's what he stands for.


/\
OOOOOooooooh

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Post by Hotspur » Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:12 pm

It's kind of sad people are to yell "playa Nazi" or "Disneyfication" the moment they can't do whatever they want.

I'm sympathetic, obviously, to people who put a lot of work in but can't bring all their toys to the playa. That's lame.

On the other hand, I would be at all surprised if somebody at DMV said, "Well, how many speeding flamethrowers do we really need?" and applications that came in after they got to their limit were denied because, well, they don't want 15 giant flamethrowers shooting across the playa.

Or maybe they have some other reason. I don't know.

However, I would suggest that rather than call them "nazis" and grumble about an appeals process, you politely ask them why they denied your application, not in the context of trying to weasle an appeal (they've already said all decisions are final) but rather in the context of trying to make your vehicle passable next year.

I can pretty much guarantee you that a letter which says, "I was denied and I don't really understand why, and would like to learn why so I can improve my art car and bring it next year," will be much better recieved than "I'm the guy who called you a bunch of playa nazis and I did everything right and you guys screwed me!" Cuz, you know, they might well remember the later next year.

Again, my sympathies, but the DMV guys have a tought job with a lot of hard judgement calls to make. They're making a lot of decisions that impact the quality of life for everyone on the playa, and deserve to be treated with respect even when their decisions don't go your wya.

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Post by Simply Joel » Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:58 pm

While I agree with the statements above... I still think "Playa Nazi" has nice ring to it.
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Post by unjonharley » Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:07 pm

Simply Joel wrote:While I agree with the statements above... I still think "Playa Nazi" has nice ring to it.

/\
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Post by Sensei » Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:43 pm

Reminds me of the Trash Nazi.

RIP Trash Nazi.

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Post by BurnScar » Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:49 am

Well he was a far better class of Nazi.

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Post by Gothalot » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:35 am

Dr. Pyro wrote:It is more of an art truck. We will bring it because the back of it is carrying things we need for camp so it has to come regardless. It's an old Ford truck that the hood is now covered in hand-done rock mosaic, the sides are permanently altered and adorned with hundreds of neckties; the back has a second deck, safely double-welded on (the idea is that is can carry 20 people and meets the safety standards to do just that), it has 150 feet of ropelites illuminating the entire vehicle along with a strobe light for dancing and special effects; in the back carried a 50 gallon propane tank which is used to fire up our flamethrower. The upperdeck is painted gold and will also be adorned with the aftermentioned ropelites and has gold painted foam rubber handles for safety around the entire upper parameter. It has an extra step welded to the back bumper so people can safely go on and off the back without risk of falling either under the vehicle or its side. I could go on and on, and if I personally owned said vehicle I probably could. Suffice it to say, it is permanently altered and can really now only be used for an event such as Burning Man, meets and exceeds every safety standard put into place, is visually appealing, is interactive (fire and dancing), not to mention is a centerpiece of our camp. So eplayans, what do you think?
Sounds okay to me however one major thing. It seems like one of those many oportune illeatest vehicles that end up on the Burn day in front of the Man with a lot of drunk Yabbo's in front whoring up all the good space. No offence but Ive seen too many of them over the years specificly designed for a good viewing spot for all their friends.

PS Pardon the atrocious spelling.

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Post by Dr. Pyro » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:35 am

Gothalot, I cannot deny that part of it's allure is the ability to watch the burn and pre-burn procession. However, and this will be of little consequence to you or anybody else, we tend to park back of the parameter so as to not impede anybody's view and to (more importantly I suppose) not be in the way when the masses surge towards the man after he falls. But since we won't be able to take it out of camp, the point is moot.

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Post by Gothalot » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:39 am

Dr Pyro, I hear ya, you are one of the select considerate few thanks. I did notice some art cars back there last year. Sorry to hear about your denial and sad to see a few can ruin it for the ones that have respect enough to do whats right.

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Post by Ivy » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:40 am

Naw--you can't DRIVE it out of camp. I don't see why you couldn't move it, without driving it, if you *really* wanted to.

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