challenging "the Temple"

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
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Agaton
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by Agaton » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:58 am

I agree traditions can be good, and the Temple and Lamplighters belong in that ctegory. And Lamplighters are performance art.

But teh kerosene lanterns seem to blow out much too often. Sometimes there are more dark lamps than lit ones. Is there an affordable way to improve that?
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by HazelRae » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:38 pm

TomServo wrote:Is this NOT a suitable temple?!?

Image

Thank you for this!
I completely agree.

In regards to the original post, I have mixed emotions. I love the idea of a sacred village of sorts, but I think that the one temple for everyone to share sort of speaks to the idea and culture of burning man as a whole. What do you think?

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by EspressoDude » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:54 pm

I love the temple. It was a hell of a lot of work to fill it full of firewood, rig a cable to pull it down. Then fill it full of accelerants and pyrotechnics. Then our crew lit the dam thing on FIRE !!
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by tamarakay » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:02 pm

I think I have finally figured out why the temple angers me so. Well, a couple things about it.

1. The drama queens who just want to wail and get attention for being pitiful.

2. I have battled depression for most of my life. I am also a caretaker by nature and a natural born nurturer. Wandering around in the art car, or riding my bike from art piece to art piece, or even walking around and seeing what I find, is the most free, emotionally liberating experience in my life. Then to walk into the temple just sucks the life right out of me. The overwhelming pulsing NEED of the place. It sucks the joy from my spirit. The only time I have felt peace in the temple was our first year and we wandered upon it during early entry time, crowds were light, and I got to just enjoy the beauty of the piece without the emotional baggage of everyone around me.

So, if I am driving the car, NO. I won't stop there. You will need to arrange another time to go. I don't want to go out and watch it burn either. I will watch from the esplanade perhaps.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by Elorrum » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:24 pm

I like the temple. It's a big beautiful construction. It is a vessel built for release, not containment. It is a sad place, and if people find other people's sadness to be poor theater, eh, whatever. Some people think it is the place to bring their poor theater, I don't like that use, but I don't have to. The wailers and dancers are trying in their way to do something, so it doesn't make me as angry as the ones who think it's good to pull stupid pranks there, or have their rave bus park right by, thinking they are showing everyone how dumb it all is. It's not dumb if you want it to be there for what you need it for. It is obvious to me looking at the notes, and offerings and remembrances that it serves a real purpose for a lot of people. I like to see how it's been constructed, I like to write my messages to my departed loved ones and friends. Last year I was hoping to finally have a good cry for my mother there, but that hasn't happened yet. The temple has helped me to pay some well earned attention to some people I've dearly loved, but don't think of often. The year they had the long harp set up there, I enjoyed staying for a while. I wouldn't want to step off a party car, bip around for a few minutes, and get back to the car... that would be pretty jarring to me. I'm glad they burn it, I'm glad they let all that emotion go.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by BBadger » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:25 pm

I think I like the temple best at the beginning of the burn when most people are there to gawk at the cool architecture and art of the building, as it always feels superior to the Man sculpture. After that, however, the temple for me ends up as a pit-stop and land-mark. That's not for lack of trying though. I'll go in and maybe I'm more interested in art, or how the light shines through, or something else I didn't see before, but there are just so many people just hanging out like they're in mass or funeral or something. It does get depressing: the wailing, the silence, the sitting and staring, the awkward glances at your friends before one of you mouths "let's go".

I appreciate that the temple is usually designed with multiple areas that aren't just the depressing core, but I'd much rather have the funeral parlor aspect placed in some side wing. Then the rest of us can at least enjoy the majority of the place. I thought 2011's Temple was pretty nice in that regard, mostly because I could go through it without really ever stopping by that depressing room.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by Simon of the Playa » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:34 am

all i know is this is impressive as Hell, and i hope their proposal gets chosen...


just.wow.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by tamarakay » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:43 am

Yes, this one might help break up the depressive nature of the thing.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by trilobyte » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:56 am

My understanding is that's one of many proposals, and that no decision has been made (that's typically done sometime after the art grant submission deadline passes).

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by maladroit » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:57 am

Image

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by Aurelia » Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:22 pm

Ellorum says it exactly right for me

again !

so Girl , you do write it all

for many years I avoided the temple except to praise the builders
then the beautiful sounds drew me there
okay, now I appreciate more
maybe because I think I am closer

xoA

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by Mojojita » Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:22 pm

tamarakay wrote:I think I have finally figured out why the temple angers me so. Well, a couple things about it.

1. The drama queens who just want to wail and get attention for being pitiful.

2. I have battled depression for most of my life. I am also a caretaker by nature and a natural born nurturer. Wandering around in the art car, or riding my bike from art piece to art piece, or even walking around and seeing what I find, is the most free, emotionally liberating experience in my life. Then to walk into the temple just sucks the life right out of me. The overwhelming pulsing NEED of the place. It sucks the joy from my spirit. The only time I have felt peace in the temple was our first year and we wandered upon it during early entry time, crowds were light, and I got to just enjoy the beauty of the piece without the emotional baggage of everyone around me.

So, if I am driving the car, NO. I won't stop there. You will need to arrange another time to go. I don't want to go out and watch it burn either. I will watch from the esplanade perhaps.

Very well articulated. For me, the temple is very emotionally noisy - it is not peaceful but it screams with sadness, fear and abandonment. I'm always left feeling anxious when I leave. It may be that way until the load I have to bear (and subsequently try to leave at the temple) is much heavier than the feelings absorbed there empathetically. Someday I will be deeply grieving for one of my own, it may then become a release and a blessing.
Ut ballista es interdico, tantum interdico mos fui ballista.

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by VultureChow » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:12 pm

I think I've articulated that I find the atmosphere at the temple and the temple burn stifling because unlike other projects or burns, the experience there is carefully enforced by the community to be one of grieving, or loss. I can't make myself share that emotion and it feels like other reactions aren't acceptable there.

But I realized I also feel incredibly awkward around the Temple and the intense emotion there.

It's like I've stepped onto a planet where I don't speak the language and can't breathe the air. Maybe it's because I have never experienced that crushing type of loss yet. My default defense mechanism, to look around and help out in some way, doesn't work. I can't help anyone there. I have deep unshakeable fear of not fitting in, and here is one place where I clearly don't fit. I don't think I fit at large sound camps either, but as popular as those are, I don't think of them as the same iconic community affair that the Temple is. The Temple is a constant reminder that I'm an outsider looking into a place I don't belong.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by ehcsztein » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:16 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:all i know is this is impressive as Hell, and i hope their proposal gets chosen...

just.wow.
Something about cats and bags comes to mind ;)
trilobyte wrote:My understanding is that's one of many proposals, and that no decision has been made (that's typically done sometime after the art grant submission deadline passes).
That is our understanding as well... we are cautiously hopeful but, ultimately, we are excited to be building this vision and sharing it with everyone regardless of the outcome of that decision process.

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by Simon of the Playa » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:55 pm

call me old fashioned, but my notion of a temple encompasses all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haim


and not just one aspect (death)


so if this design is chosen, i may actually "participate" in the temple, something i have avoided for years now, because of the buddhist/death cult/drama-rama surrounding recent ones.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by Roberto Dobbisano » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:58 pm

the waffle was the shit, yo.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by Elorrum » Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:41 pm

I don't think Embrace is waiting for official temple assignment. I saw it under construction in Reno at the Generator. HUGE HUG.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by Ugly Dougly » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:25 pm

"The" temple is "for" mourning those who have passed.

But temples historically have been built for many other reasons.
Viz: To offer appreciation for the awe that we feel regarding the universe.

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by Timezone LaFontaine » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:17 pm

My initial expectation of what my first burn in BRC was gonna be like was that it would be an incredibly fun and frolicsome time among some amazing artwork. I definitely wasn't expecting to get a phone call from a sheriff telling me how sorry she was to have to inform me, etc., three weeks prior.

After a while, I decided to still go to the burn. My second day there, someone suggested I check out the temple. Man, what a relief to be able to grieve in some place that felt a lot more natural to me than the pittance of socially-sanctioned and very stiff spaces like funerals and wakes in society at large, where it's like - here's your time to briefly mourn, in this nice space that's out of sight of people who don't want to have to see this - now get back to work and don't bring us down with devastation stuff. It was also really cool to be able to go on a short walk from heartache to exuberantly joyous celebrations of life, back and forth as needed for several days. Some people might not be comfortable with weeping and wailing. For me, as a typically conditioned man, what a good thing it was to not have to keep up appearances of strength and stoicism... or should I say, to actually be able not to, because that conditioning seriously impaired me. I wish I could still cry as freely as I did back then, but some of that conditioning has crept back in and reasserted itself in the intervening years.

For people who haven't experienced that kind of loss yet, eventually you will, and it will almost always be sooner than you expect. But maybe the temple still won't feel like a comfortable place for you at that time. But, I don't know... reading people asking why can't we keep the sad part a little less visible... in my mind, it just sounds like an example of one of the things that ails American society at large, to try to do that. There's also something important about being with other people who are going through similar things.

Maybe one reason why the temple tends to heavily be about death/loss is because that's what is so heavily repressed everywhere else all the time.

I came back following that first burn feeling really peaceful. But in the winter, I gradually went deeper and deeper into grief, partially because there's an unspoken expectation that you should just be over it after a while. Man, thank goodness I went to the burn because remembering the fun and amazing artwork and good people I met there, mixed with my own time spent at the temple, was really something good to hold on to and look forward to for the next year. Over the following years each burn has been more fun and happy for me, and I haven't really felt like bawling in the place.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by Ugly Dougly » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:24 pm

Ours is not a caravan of despair, but a caravan of hope...

Image
Image

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by theCryptofishist » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:44 pm

VultureChow wrote:I think I've articulated that I find the atmosphere at the temple and the temple burn stifling because unlike other projects or burns, the experience there is carefully enforced by the community to be one of grieving, or loss. I can't make myself share that emotion and it feels like other reactions aren't acceptable there.

But I realized I also feel incredibly awkward around the Temple and the intense emotion there.

It's like I've stepped onto a planet where I don't speak the language and can't breathe the air. Maybe it's because I have never experienced that crushing type of loss yet. My default defense mechanism, to look around and help out in some way, doesn't work. I can't help anyone there. I have deep unshakeable fear of not fitting in, and here is one place where I clearly don't fit. I don't think I fit at large sound camps either, but as popular as those are, I don't think of them as the same iconic community affair that the Temple is. The Temple is a constant reminder that I'm an outsider looking into a place I don't belong.
I read this and was reminded of a story a friend had about a reading group he was in. Everyone kept picking the "big books", you know, the sort of things that show up on lists of 100 and that you should have read in college and that can be really really boring, even if they are in other ways great.
Is this something like that?
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by tamarakay » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:34 pm

Timezone LaFontaine wrote:My initial expectation of what my first burn in BRC was gonna be like was that it would be an incredibly fun and frolicsome time among some amazing artwork. I definitely wasn't expecting to get a phone call from a sheriff telling me how sorry she was to have to inform me, etc., three weeks prior.

After a while, I decided to still go to the burn. My second day there, someone suggested I check out the temple. Man, what a relief to be able to grieve in some place that felt a lot more natural to me than the pittance of socially-sanctioned and very stiff spaces like funerals and wakes in society at large, where it's like - here's your time to briefly mourn, in this nice space that's out of sight of people who don't want to have to see this - now get back to work and don't bring us down with devastation stuff. It was also really cool to be able to go on a short walk from heartache to exuberantly joyous celebrations of life, back and forth as needed for several days. Some people might not be comfortable with weeping and wailing. For me, as a typically conditioned man, what a good thing it was to not have to keep up appearances of strength and stoicism... or should I say, to actually be able not to, because that conditioning seriously impaired me. I wish I could still cry as freely as I did back then, but some of that conditioning has crept back in and reasserted itself in the intervening years.

For people who haven't experienced that kind of loss yet, eventually you will, and it will almost always be sooner than you expect. But maybe the temple still won't feel like a comfortable place for you at that time. But, I don't know... reading people asking why can't we keep the sad part a little less visible... in my mind, it just sounds like an example of one of the things that ails American society at large, to try to do that. There's also something important about being with other people who are going through similar things.

Maybe one reason why the temple tends to heavily be about death/loss is because that's what is so heavily repressed everywhere else all the time.

I came back following that first burn feeling really peaceful. But in the winter, I gradually went deeper and deeper into grief, partially because there's an unspoken expectation that you should just be over it after a while. Man, thank goodness I went to the burn because remembering the fun and amazing artwork and good people I met there, mixed with my own time spent at the temple, was really something good to hold on to and look forward to for the next year. Over the following years each burn has been more fun and happy for me, and I haven't really felt like bawling in the place.
This could indeed be a part of it. As a person who has battled depression, the feeling that despair is going to overtake your life is ever present. It feels at times as if you ever do let the grief overtake you, you will be consumed. Part of my depression is the fear. Fear of it taking over. Fear of losing all the good in my life. Fear of being lost in the grief. I have had loss and it has consumed me. I want to stay here in the love.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by maladroit » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:46 pm

I saw it as a place you could face your fear and loss for a few minutes, more than you'd ever do over the course of a default week. Leave your burdens at the temple, go forth and party that sexy ass off. Heal a small amount of fear and pain by sharing it and understanding that you're not alone. I don't believe that attending a party in the desert can cure someone's soul in one shot, but it can be part of the journey. Fear and pain are also inhibitions, and they will affect you throughout your entire life if you hold on to them.

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:46 am

life is death, death is life.

we all celebrate differently.

i dance and sing and make merry.


fuck yer day.

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by EspressoDude » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:23 am

Freebird....isn't that the Prez' thanksgiving turkey after it gets a pardon
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by ygmir » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:35 am

EspressoDude wrote:Freebird....isn't that the Prez' thanksgiving turkey after it gets a pardon
LBJ's wife when she was single.............
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by ACfromSAC » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:47 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:
FREEEEEEEEEBIRD!
LOL'd me. Fuckin' Freebird.

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by Ugly Dougly » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:35 am

Timezone LaFontaine wrote:Maybe one reason why the temple tends to heavily be about death/loss is because that's what is so heavily repressed everywhere else all the time.
Maybe they just couldn't think of anything else.
Go ahead, it's okay to be critical.

By the way, I did go one year, after my wife passed, and I mourned her there.

But let's look for a place to celebrate life, huh?

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by theCryptofishist » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:10 pm

So, do you think we could get an event into this year's WWW called "Mooning the Temple"? Give it an idea of how we feel, instead of just talking about it here?
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by Roberto Dobbisano » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:34 pm

i believe it was the Rev. Moon who Inspired the Embrace Proposal aka "The Most Magnificent 1000 Hippy Wedding Chapel"
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