challenging "the Temple"

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theCryptofishist
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by theCryptofishist » Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:47 pm

Hay is too moopy.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by biblioclasm » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:16 pm

[quote="BBadger"]My burns are always ruined by my expectations of how good the 40,000th Burning Man is going to be:

Teeming masses of Chaos. Millions worshipping a mile-tall man are permanently blinded by the cleansing flame.

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by BBadger » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:10 am

biblioclasm wrote:
BBadger wrote:My burns are always ruined by my expectations of how good the 40,000th Burning Man is going to be:
Teeming masses of Chaos. Millions worshipping a mile-tall man are permanently blinded by the cleansing flame.
Yeah, I mean, why even go if it's not going to be that awesome?
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Temple Kickstarter Question

Post by Turtleburp » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:20 am

Well I've worked out why Eplaya seems so quiet - it's because lost of folks are hanging out on Facebook.

A quick read through there lead me to the Temple of Whollyness Kickstarter and left me with really mixed feelings. Their target is $65,000 but apparently $130,000 is needed on top of whatever BMorg contributed.

A question already posed on FB is what happens if you do not make that figure, will there be no temple?
Not a bad question in my opinion and one that attracts vitriol but no answers.

The temple designs are without doubt impressive but at what point is enough enough and when does spectacularly one upping the designs each year become too indulgent even by BM standards.

Lots of folks seem delighted to contribute so clearly there is a will to fund such projects(1), it may have been the same last year and I simply did not notice, but it is not leaving a good taste in my mouth.

Bumble, International Incident and I will do our utmost to bring art to the playa this year but in my mind it's part of the gifting and I would never ask you to pay for a gift. I would rather make it smaller (equally offensive though - come on the Incident(2) is involved).

Maybe I'm not just good at strangers asking for money - or asking for it.

Anyway that's enough serious from me for a Friday.

(1)I will contribute to projects but usually where I know them or have seen them get as far as they can on their own e.g. dye with dignity but then want to make it bigger and better.

(2)No, no that is fucking horrible - sorry Mel I've made you sounds like a person from a reality TV show - note I am not sorry enough to delete it though :twisted:
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Milayna
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Re: Temple Kickstarter

Post by Milayna » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:16 am

I think you make a very good point. I had similar thoughts when I saw the kickstarter for the temple. Last year the temple kickstarter asked for $30,000, though I don't know what the final cost was. $130,000 does seem pretty exorbitant to me, and I do wonder how they are going to fund that, even if they get the $65k they are asking for on kickstarter.

I actually donated to the Temple of Whollyness because I know that the temple is something that I will use, appreciate, and enjoy. However, I was still a bit put off by the price tag. Also, you pose an excellent question, what if they can't raise $130,000 dollars plus?? Do they have a backup, scaled down plan?

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Re: Temple Kickstarter

Post by tamarakay » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:49 am

I really struggled with the idea of our fundraiser. I would decide to do it, then back out. Back and forth. Then Tink found the great deal on the mutant car and the kalaidoscope idea came together. I went ahead and created the indiegogo, but I'm still conflicted lol.
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Re: Temple Kickstarter

Post by Dr. Pyro » Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:36 am

Tamara, don't be. People will use and benefit from all you do. Having a few of them (including BDC&WB) throw in a few bucks to make the dream become reality seems to be a very worthy investment to me.

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Re: Temple Kickstarter

Post by VultureChow » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:07 am

tamarakay wrote:I really struggled with the idea of our fundraiser. I would decide to do it, then back out. Back and forth. Then Tink found the great deal on the mutant car and the kalaidoscope idea came together. I went ahead and created the indiegogo, but I'm still conflicted lol.
I understand the sentiment. And yet I think most wouldn't have the same ethical or emotional quandaries if they applied for an honorarium. Even though with Indiegogo or Kickstarter people have the individual choice to support you while the honorarium is essentially comes from our ticket price and we have no say in who receives what.

If anything, asking people to give freely should grant a clearer conscience than forcing a contribution from the whole city. Of course that's not the case since you have to see each individuals name and face as you accept their donation versus the collective. It's harder to disappoint your friends and neighbors than it is the entire population of BRC.

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Re: Temple Kickstarter

Post by lemur » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:45 am

LARRY AND HIS RICH FRIENDS SHOULD PAY FOR THIS SHIT.
Don't link to anything here!

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Re: Temple Kickstarter

Post by Turtleburp » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:26 pm

tamarakay wrote:I really struggled with the idea of our fundraiser. I would decide to do it, then back out. Back and forth. Then Tink found the great deal on the mutant car and the kalaidoscope idea came together. I went ahead and created the indiegogo, but I'm still conflicted lol.
Demand exceeded your budget from what I hear about the queue so you are meeting a need or at least community want. Although I went to dye with dignity and all I got was a stupid photo - which I'll refrain from posting again :oops:
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Re: Temple Kickstarter

Post by tamarakay » Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:06 pm

We definitely had a problem with demand exceeding expectations last year. What I am really excited about THIS year is taking the dye experience on the road with the Dye Mobile. The idea of setting up in the deep playa and giving the random explorer such an experience just makes me giddy!
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by trilobyte » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:22 am

I've merged the new discussion in with the existing.

The reason things here have been so quiet is because for most burners, it's still really early in the season. It's also worth noting that this is not the first 'big money' temple, the last few temples have all cost six figures. They've also relied heavily on public funding, and either all met their goals or shouldered their costs themselves.

Of course it's possible in any given year that there would be no temple. Despite the money raised or whether goals are met, there are dozens (if not hundreds) of reasons why any big project could fail. To think anything otherwise is to take things for granted. I think that's part of the reason that the decision (to award who builds the temple) is not taken so lightly. In the case of the Temple Of Whollyness, the team is led by seasoned veteran burners who have an established track record for bringing big art to the playa. They may have to make changes and alterations to their plans if funding should unexpectedly fall short, but I have no doubts they'll make it.

For me, Burning Man would be fine without any temple. It's not why I come, the institution is not something I'd miss. I would miss the artistry (let's face it, each has been beautiful in its own way), but I suspect that if there wasn't a temple there'd be other big art out there filling the void.

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by ygmir » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:26 am

I agree, Trilo. or, smaller, personalized ones might pop up.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:05 pm

im still pissed they rejected my design...
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by Roberto Dobbisano » Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:21 pm

dude, Disney on Fire™ is SO 2004.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by Turtleburp » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:26 pm

trilobyte wrote:I've merged the new discussion in with the existing.
thank you

The reason things here have been so quiet is because for most burners, it's still really early in the season.
and or comparatively quiet due to a change in ticketing
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by Aurelia » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:25 pm

"Trio said;
For me, Burning Man would be fine without any temple. It's not why I come, the institution is not something I'd miss. I would miss the artistry (let's face it, each has been beautiful in its own way), but I suspect that if there wasn't a temple there'd be other big art out there filling the void."



Trilo, I so strongly agree with you and thank you for raising that communication.

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by mdmf007 » Mon May 13, 2013 1:15 pm

Rice wrote:
TomServo wrote:
Sunbeam56 wrote:Please dont change the temple. As a noobie we struggle just to get there. Adding another project would just make it more difficult.
These aren't rides you go on. And if your expecting a temple, you're expecting too much! Not everything is 100%! A lot of folks were upset to see an already burned man in 2007. Don't go for the attractions! I was Hugely disappointed by Bianca's Smut shack! Go for YOURSELF, if that's what you NEED to do!
Some people see BM as something like Disney land

Some people see BM as a canvas for creating Art

I like to believe BM is something more than either of those things. But that is ME...

I have met people who look at BM as a religious experience, others its the ultimate party, while still some come and are not impressed never to come again. Everyone is an individual and as such can perceive the event as they need too. For me it is a time to relax, chill and hopefully let the craziness ooze out and soak into the playa allowing another year of solving other peoples problems for them.

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by Simon of the Playa » Tue May 14, 2013 6:57 am

i go mostly to use exotic drugs and look at and Ass & Boobs.


it is what it is.


what were we talking about? Oh Yeah...Temple...




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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by ygmir » Tue May 14, 2013 7:03 am

I see the burn as "artistic and spiritual soup" "Human Soup* as such.........

we can taste individual ingredients, or as a mix, we can watch in the same way, and for ourselves add some seasonings.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by trilobyte » Tue May 14, 2013 7:05 am

Or maybe it's more of a chili cook off than a soup :mrgreen:

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by unjonharley » Tue May 14, 2013 8:36 am

How about instead of a temple burn.. I burn my weeks worth of skid marked boxers.. Smell the the burn..

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Re: Temple Kickstarter

Post by A-RockLeFrench » Tue May 14, 2013 11:06 am

lemur wrote:LARRY AND HIS RICH FRIENDS SHOULD PAY FOR THIS SHIT.

Right. Just like they pay for the porta-potties. And the ice. And my art car. And your camp.

Larry and his rich friends shouldn't pay for crap, we as the participants and citizens in this 'great' do-acracy should (and do) pay for everything. All Larry has to do is make a speech or two while his rich friends jerk each other off.

There's more than enough money in the Burner community to make Burning Man awesome. Shit, it already is awesome. Why? Because Burners paid for it. I for one am all about fundraising and kickiegogo's. Instead of the presence of the temple at the TTITD being dependent on some rich guy(s) bringing it and building it. Why can't it be a community effort? I get a kick out of annoying the hell out of the shooshers during the temple burn by singing Bon Jovi at the top of my lungs, I'll throw $30 in the pot so I get to do it next year. Whats another $30 when you're budgeting for Burning Man anyways? If half of the participants threw that in there'd be $750,000 to build the stupid temple.

And if they can't raise their bazillion dollars they need to build the temple then clearly the community has made a choice, the temple is not that important this year. Big Deal. Maybe there'll be one next year.

I think the bigger and better than last year is fun, if we weren't trying to do anything better than nothing would get better. Until whatever temple crew gets way to ambitious, falls short, cant afford to bring their temple out and there's nothing to do on Sunday night of course...

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by trilobyte » Tue May 14, 2013 11:25 am

As with everything else in your life, support what you connect with in whatever way you choose and are able. Some people get really into it and give til it hurts and then some, others smile and nod, still others just keep on moving. In the case of this year's thing I'd support it regardless of whether it was the official temple or not, to me it stands on its own merits as an impressive piece. Other years, not so much. And I certainly don't have a standing budget to throw at <insert project here> because "it's the temple" and I feel some sense of obligation.

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by Box Burner » Sun May 26, 2013 10:13 pm

I agree Eric. The 2010 Temple was the best one. That is however personal preference.

But to the original question.

I have mixed feelings. I do not like or believe in organized religion. And in some respects the temple seems to be turning into a cult. The religion of burning man? I hope not!

So having many smaller temples, maybe each with a different focus, might avoid that. Possibly. But might not that eventually lead to religious wars? Good question. Maybe. Maybe not.

Maybe we should have no temple at all. Problem solved. Or is it?

I too, have taken solace there, ignored it, or simply looked at it as art. There is a need. But at what price? We as humans have connection with one another. Whether percieved or not. How, if, and when, or how often we observe those connections is highly individual. As it should be. For some it is a shrine to go and remember, or a place to let go. For some it is a photo in a wallet. Some do genealogy. Some just simply remember and smile or cry as the need arises. There is no one right way. And therein lies the problem. The "we are right, you are wrong" and "you must be saved" things have been around for a long, long time in the default. Both have very pointy edges. There are many examples of "bad religions" in the default. And lots of finger pointing, argument and fighting about who has the truth. I can see this kind of thing coming into Burning man very easily. So what do we do?

Probably (IMHO) we should start by avoiding having a temple that is too ostentatious. This seems to have been a problem with some religions in the default. (this could probably be said for the Man too).

One or many. I think one. But I don't really have an answer.

Of course you know... I might just be blowing smoke.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by gyre » Mon May 27, 2013 1:26 am

We are beasts and ritual has power over us.
I don't think we should give it more power than that.

As long as it helps, I'm okay with it.

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by TomServo » Mon May 27, 2013 2:05 am

Ah the Power of Over Thinking Irrelevant Shit! 2001 was the best Temple.
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..

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gyre
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by gyre » Mon May 27, 2013 4:21 am

lol

Burning man is all about doing things that have an emotional impact on us.

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by Simon of the Playa » Mon May 27, 2013 8:03 am

and all this time i've been doing hookers and blow.



wow.




i get it now.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Post by gyre » Mon May 27, 2013 8:32 am

Still counts, just like Big Fire.
Or a fake construction zone.

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