Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
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tatonka
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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby tatonka » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:00 am

The internets are no place for subtlety.
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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby ^Rhino! » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:32 am

tatonka wrote:The internets are no place for subtlety.


Unless you're British. The dryness of their humor tends to lend itself to the subtle snark that slams you later.

If you don't "get it' at Burningman, the snark hurts. If you 'get it', it has no effect at all. I saw a good friend from my home town at Burningman, and got his attention......

"Hey, you fucking filthy-assed hippy!"

There was a guy sitting down in center camp with dreads and a frown that got up almost immediately, tried to look fierce at me, and said,

"What are you talking about, you fucking stupid redneck?"

So, I hugged my friend, looked at the hippy and said, "Sorry, I wasn't talking to you" and walked away with my friend to friendlier environs. The hippy was obviously offended. My friend was happy to see me, and we shared coffee and stories together the rest of the afternoon. I still think the hippy didn't "get it".
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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby Zhust » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:10 pm

In my experience, snark is, to a large degree, confined to the Internet. Having dealt with communicating with humans via text over computerized interactions since—shit, 1986, I guess—I can say there's a smug endorphin rush for putting what amounts to a bitch-slap into text. I don't understand why. I can say I somehow got over it.

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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby Eric » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:07 pm

Zhust wrote:In my experience, snark is, to a large degree, confined to the Internet.


Have you ever read Piss Clear or the BRC Weekly? Or watched the Daily Show or Colbert (they're the fine line between satire & snark, with Colbert often hitting snark)? Or hung out with a bunch of drag queens (though they don't call it "snark", it is)? Hell, on the playa just go spend some time at Fandango, it's full of Fuck-Yer-Burn snark. I think it only feels more confined to the internet because in real life it's easy to walk away from if you don't like it, whereas on the internets it's part of the dialog regardless of how you feel about it.
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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby Thecatman » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:33 pm

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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby pinemom » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:28 am

BAAAAAAAhahahahahahahaaaaaaaaa. SNARK! :evil:
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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby RedHeaven » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:55 am

There's internet snark, and there is Burner humor or whatever.

Burner humor is something you will get at Burning Man. It's actually REALLY welcoming for me....I had the opposite worry before I finally got to the playa. I had to be convinced that there was humor there. I thought everyone was all tribal and cool and overserious, overnice, oversnobby, overbearing with the ritualistic thing, and that everyone wore cool clothes and were good looking and thin. Those thoughts did not help me get to burning man. Learning that people dressed up as chickens, yelled profanity and light insults through megaphones, shot pants off the roof of the post office at naked people from cannons, took pride in dorky unexplained shit, came in all shapes and sizes, AND you could go get serious at the Temple, I finally hopped on the Burn Train!

You'll love it I am sure

er, ahem,

It sucks, don't go! :mrgreen:

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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby lucky420 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:03 am

I looooove sarcasm. I do it everyday in real person to person contact. Sarcasm /snark should be witty/funny with a bit of edginess to it. Know your audience though or you might end up looking like a hateful cretin (if you care or not).

The FB burning man page, not the official one with 500,000 +, but the one with 43,000 + members is full of snark. Most of it not even funny or entertaining. Same old tired cliches, jokes, etc. it's like a big circle jerk of mostly douche bags. I don't comment there much because I can't physically reach through my screen and bitch slap somebody...

Ahhhhh that felt good to vent...

:mrgreen:
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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby gaminwench » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:16 pm

^^^ this.
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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby BBadger » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:08 pm

RedHeaven wrote:There's internet snark, and there is Burner humor or whatever.

Burner humor is something you will get at Burning Man. It's actually REALLY welcoming for me....I had the opposite worry before I finally got to the playa. I had to be convinced that there was humor there. I thought everyone was all tribal and cool and overserious, overnice, oversnobby, overbearing with the ritualistic thing, and that everyone wore cool clothes and were good looking and thin. Those thoughts did not help me get to burning man. Learning that people dressed up as chickens, yelled profanity and light insults through megaphones, shot pants off the roof of the post office at naked people from cannons, took pride in dorky unexplained shit, came in all shapes and sizes, AND you could go get serious at the Temple, I finally hopped on the Burn Train!


Yeah, the fact that the event is not just some hippie, your-rights-end-where-my-feelings-begin, preachy, kumbaya thing-in-the-desert (though not for lack of trying by some) is one of the things that kept me impressed with this event and the people surrounding it. This forum especially is refreshing.
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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby burner von braun » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:03 pm

BBadger wrote:
Yeah, the fact that the event is not just some hippie, your-rights-end-where-my-feelings-begin, preachy, kumbaya thing-in-the-desert (though not for lack of trying by some) is one of the things that kept me impressed with this event and the people surrounding it. -



I'm reminded of one of Fishy's quotes when speaking about the event...

"It has a rainbow facade with a Sturgis core"


.

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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:03 am

Wow? I said that? Tens of thousands of posts, and you'll say something worthwhile...

Spy Magazine was a big influence for me. Anyone else?
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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby GreyCoyote » Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:16 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Wow? I said that? Tens of thousands of posts, and you'll say something worthwhile...

Spy Magazine was a big influence for me. Anyone else?


"Spy vs Spy"... Yes! :mrgreen:
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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:47 pm

spy magazine was a brilliant, hard hitting, no holds barred in your face journalistic masterpiece that was destroyed by AHhhnold and his band of lawyers after they broke a story ( with pictures of the Govenator's schlong ) of his early years as a boy toy to a wealthy homosexual spaniard.


they also published a piece on Jerry Lewis, and his long hidden gem, "The Day the Clown Cried" that was priceless.


they also uncovered the "Octopus" and the suiciding of Danny Casolaro at the hands of a CIA hit squad in Martinsburg WV...
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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:04 pm

They did one on Bohemian Grove, too.

And kept tabs on that gossip columnist--Liz Smith?
The Ironman Decathlon? Great stuff.
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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby GreyCoyote » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:13 pm

Yes. But....

I just read it for the colors. :mrgreen:
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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:38 pm

"we are all naked under our clothes"

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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby andy » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:55 pm

Zumaria, the folks on ePlaya and the folks on Playa couldn't be more different. I barely spend any time on ePlaya nowadays for just that reason - it's difficult to have a serious discussion once every thread turns into a series of back and forth jokes unrelated to the OP. Here's a hint - look at the sheer number of posts made by some of the snarkiest posters and do the math. A handful of folks here have tens of thousands of posts each. On ePlaya they make up probably half of the posts. On playa, they are a few dozen out of 70,000 people. (Not to say that all prolific posters are snarky, but most snarky posters are very prolific.) You will find the friendliest community you have seen in your life on Playa.

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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby ^Rhino! » Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:10 am

andy wrote:Zumaria, the folks on ePlaya and the folks on Playa couldn't be more different. I barely spend any time on ePlaya nowadays for just that reason - it's difficult to have a serious discussion once every thread turns into a series of back and forth jokes unrelated to the OP. Here's a hint - look at the sheer number of posts made by some of the snarkiest posters and do the math. A handful of folks here have tens of thousands of posts each. On ePlaya they make up probably half of the posts. On playa, they are a few dozen out of 70,000 people. (Not to say that all prolific posters are snarky, but most snarky posters are very prolific.) You will find the friendliest community you have seen in your life on Playa.


With all due respect, andy, I disagree. You meet Simon, he's the same. He's snark-filled, to be sure, but he 'gets' the idea of Burningman, or what it 'should' be to him. Fishy on-playa is probably one of the most incredible real burners I know, full of all good, but snarky nonetheless. Savannah is a sometimes snarky beacon of light in here, and a snarky loveable beacon of light in person. I only have good things to say about all of 'em (Checks made payable to the Rhino for this last round....there, I inserted my OWN snark.).

You need to do the math in your head, like the snark. THEN you'll see.
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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby ^Rhino! » Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:12 am

GreyCoyote wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:Wow? I said that? Tens of thousands of posts, and you'll say something worthwhile...

Spy Magazine was a big influence for me. Anyone else?


"Spy vs Spy"... Yes! :mrgreen:



Grey Coyote.....Antonio Prohias and I both thing you're spot on with that. Spy vs. Spy is the intellectual version of Roadrunner cartoons for MAD magazine, which I also happened to enjoy in its heyday.
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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby ygmir » Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:21 am

andy wrote:Zumaria, the folks on ePlaya and the folks on Playa couldn't be more different. I barely spend any time on ePlaya nowadays for just that reason - it's difficult to have a serious discussion once every thread turns into a series of back and forth jokes unrelated to the OP. Here's a hint - look at the sheer number of posts made by some of the snarkiest posters and do the math. A handful of folks here have tens of thousands of posts each. On ePlaya they make up probably half of the posts. On playa, they are a few dozen out of 70,000 people. (Not to say that all prolific posters are snarky, but most snarky posters are very prolific.) You will find the friendliest community you have seen in your life on Playa.


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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby VultureChow » Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:32 am

andy wrote:Zumaria, the folks on ePlaya and the folks on Playa couldn't be more different. I barely spend any time on ePlaya nowadays for just that reason - it's difficult to have a serious discussion once every thread turns into a series of back and forth jokes unrelated to the OP. Here's a hint - look at the sheer number of posts made by some of the snarkiest posters and do the math. A handful of folks here have tens of thousands of posts each. On ePlaya they make up probably half of the posts. On playa, they are a few dozen out of 70,000 people. (Not to say that all prolific posters are snarky, but most snarky posters are very prolific.) You will find the friendliest community you have seen in your life on Playa.


I'm going to have to disagree too.

People don't magically become saints on Playa. There are thieves and rapists. There are shallow people who would make fun of a fat girl for going nude. There are art car bouncers who only let hot girls in their 20's onto their car. There are grabby hippies who get angry when you don't give them what they want. There are perpetual nudists who get offended if you ask them not to sit on your piano bench.

There's an entire thread here every year dedicated to the top asshats of the burn. There are a lot of them. And it's not sarcasm or snark that makes them, but their attitude and behavior. A lovely hippie girl came up to me and told me she loved me. I was soooo beautiful. Then she proceed to try and ride my artwork. I asked her repeatedly not to. She climbed over him, just so she could get a stupid picture. Finally she tripped and almost broke his tail.

Hell, one of the most common suggestions for people coming en masse in an RV is to bring a tent so you can have your own space. The environment is harsh, and so are people.
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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby Simon of the Playa » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:55 am

i think it's also safe to say that the "flavor" is not as intense as it once was....

we have taken things down a notch, IMHO, or at least i have.... :twisted:






you want both barrels all the time?


i don't think so.


and as far as On Playa vs. Off Playa....Rhino and VC are correct....not only are we "real" people, we also shit on the notion that Burning Man should be this way or that way, nice, mean, harsh, mellow.....you make your burn, not us.

and ever since i can remember, which is quite a long time, the snark ON PLAYA can be just as vicious, if not worse, so Pollyanna all you want, it's not all fucking peaches and cream in the dust....eplaya is a nice place to try out those training wheels for the real ride.
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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:58 am

yeah...

what he said...


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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:00 am

andy wrote: - it's difficult to have a serious discussion once every thread turns into a series of back and forth jokes unrelated to the OP.

The FIGJAM cooler thread is the worst.
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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby H.G.Crosby » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:03 am

and some of us just have issues with compartmentalization.


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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby ^Rhino! » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:02 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:i think it's also safe to say that the "flavor" is not as intense as it once was....

we have taken things down a notch, IMHO, or at least i have.... :twisted:






you want both barrels all the time?


i don't think so.


and as far as On Playa vs. Off Playa....Rhino and VC are correct....not only are we "real" people, we also shit on the notion that Burning Man should be this way or that way, nice, mean, harsh, mellow.....you make your burn, not us.

and ever since i can remember, which is quite a long time, the snark ON PLAYA can be just as vicious, if not worse, so Pollyanna all you want, it's not all fucking peaches and cream in the dust....eplaya is a nice place to try out those training wheels for the real ride.


Training wheels? They never told me there were training wheels. Fuckers. See what I get for not reading the 'First timer's Guide?'
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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby FIGJAM » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:13 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
andy wrote: - it's difficult to have a serious discussion once every thread turns into a series of back and forth jokes unrelated to the OP.

The FIGJAM cooler thread is the worst.


Yea!!!

There are like two posts that are relevant and the rest is just a mess.

I don't know how anybody derives any useful info from it!!! :twisted:
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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby trilobyte » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:38 am

I think I completely disagree with Andy's post as well. People on the boards were significantly more vicious in years past than they have been in the last 2-3 years. From about 2007 to partway through 2011 things got pretty hairy, both because that kind of behavior was seriously on the rise (everywhere online) and because the site was short-staffed. I admit that I was away (from the site and the event) for most of that time, and didn't realize how tough things had gotten until I got back.

To equate a high post count with someone being a snarky unhelpful jerk (as Andy's post suggests) would be a mistake. If you actually look at most of the individuals with high post counts, you'd find that the majority of them are ridiculously helpful people. While some posts may be snarky, more often than not they're quick to chime in with the right info or at least helpful tips and pointers that help people figure out what they're trying to do.

What I find is a trend among those with higher post counts is that they are active year-round participants in the online community, and the community is better for it. Rather than only coming to the board to promote their camp, some on-playa event, or to look for lost sunglasses... they take a look at other peoples' threads in the Preparation board and try to help them with projects (or get inspired for their own projects), or they discuss other aspects of the event (tickets, getting involved, etc) throughout the year. Many also do a great job serving as virtual greeter's to new members who post introductions. I think time and personal on-playa connections are also a factor - the total accumulates over time, and as you make more on-playa connections I think that plays a part in the amount of online communication (you post hello's/thank you's/etc to friendly camps and artists). Speaking personally, I know that over time I've both met/connected with more people on the boards after establishing a connection in person, and have also met lots of people on the playa that I first connected with on the site.

Going back to what was said in some of the first responses in this thread, the majority of the snark and sarcasm you see on ePlaya these days is good natured (Eric's post in the Overview of the ePlaya sums it up really well).

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Re: Snark, is that really something burners take pride in?

Postby Zhust » Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:18 pm

Eric wrote: I think it only feels more confined to the internet because in real life it's easy to walk away from if you don't like it, whereas on the internets it's part of the dialog regardless of how you feel about it.


I agree with that. But I will say that I find it very difficult to believe that most people who reply to an innocent, dumb question with a "let-me-Google-that-for-you" fistful of snark would react the same way in person. As such, there's it's so much more prolific on the Internet that it's not a stretch to say I find it largely confined here. Particularly in light of the original poster's request to compare it to what it's like at Burning Man.

All that said, I think there is a lot more tricksterism going on at Burning Man than elsewhere. I mean if someone came around asking innocent dumb questions like "how do I find first camp?" or "what should I do about my generator being too loud?" I think it's way more likely to hear a twisted answer than a straight one.
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