Coffee debate poll

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
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Should BMORG stop the coffee/drink sales?

Stop the drinks, sell nothing but ice
28
42%
Stop the drinks, sell nothing but ice
28
42%
Sell nothing, not even ice!
5
8%
Sell nothing, not even ice!
5
8%
 
Total votes: 66

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Savior69
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Coffee debate poll

Post by Savior69 » Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:46 pm

The other thread about this subject is great, but would I like to see the numbers. What would be the fate if left up to the e-playans to decide?
Let's Vote!

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echohaus
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Post by echohaus » Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:42 pm

Kind of a skewed set of questions, there, aren't they?

I vote for the continuation of both ice and coffee sales; I enjoyed both. I think there are much bigger things to worry about.

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geekster
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Post by geekster » Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:52 pm

My vote would be to continue selling coffe but take it out of the central tent. Make it a structure like the post office. Keep the tent for use for acoustic performances, etc. It is a nice reference point for meeting up with people too.
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.

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sputnik
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Post by sputnik » Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:54 pm

It is certainly possible to survive a week in the desert without either. I survived without the coffee (and am now coffee free for once in many years). I could have survived without the ice, but my food options would have been different. No coffee and no ice would mean some people wouldn't come. That may or may not be a good thing.

Personally I find the sale of anything counter to the ethos of the event.

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EB
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Post by EB » Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:13 pm

My vote: Sell both.

At the 2003 burn, I was waiting in line when at the register next to me this guy was just getting his coffee. The worker told him it would be $3. The guy was totally surprised, said he thought there wasn't any commerce at Burning Man. The worker told him the coffee house was the exception to the rule, to which the guy pulls out a peace pipe, lights it and hands it to the worker.

The worker takes a giant pull off it, hands it back to the guy, then (this is my favorite part) rings it up on the register!
Irony. You're soaking in it.

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kikidelosfeliz
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Post by kikidelosfeliz » Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:16 pm

Yay coffee! Double yay ice!
cognitive dissident

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~

Post by sparkletarte » Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:42 pm

Sell ice only. It's really not that hard to make your own coffee, is it? Whereas it's quite hard to make your own ice out there.

I did buy a chai one day and a mocha another day. It was nice but certainly wasn't essential.

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Post by Icepack » Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:31 pm

Last year I bought coffee a couple of times. This year I brought my own and didn't buy a bit of it. When I was too lazy to make it myself, there was a campmate who had some, and when I was too lazy for that, I had some of the iced coffee that comes in cans on hand. And that was good even when it wasn't chilled.
Ice was essential though, and not something I could have survived the week without.
I was surprised to see that lemonade and electrolyte replacements were being sold! What was that about? Make your own freaking lemonade at least!

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The politics of caffiene

Post by Stryder » Mon Sep 20, 2004 7:07 pm

I love the coffee selling. Yes, I can make my own but it's not the same. For some of us there is a social aspect to going for the morning (or evening) coffee run. We go not only for the drink, but to visit, to see what's going on, to make friends while chillin out, relaxing after a long night, and watching the extroverts perform on the stages.
It is a great way to meet folks. Granted no one needs to buy coffee to do any of those things, but everything tastes so much better when someone else makes it, doesn't it!
Besides, the money collected goes to good use, and the coffee is ORGANIC. (Or so the signs say, but hey, don't believe everything ya read on the Playa...)
AND we bring our own cups. So there. NYA NYA.
The chai is good too. Peace peeps.
"Look, good against remotes is one thing. Good against the living, that's something else."

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Mon Sep 20, 2004 7:08 pm

Should BMORG stop the coffee/drink sales?
a) Stop the drinks, sell nothing but ice
b) Sell nothing, not even ice!
c) Stop selling diapers to yo mama.

Seriously -- get a life, and just stay out of Center Camp if all you do is pee your pants about ice and coffee swillers. 'Nuff said.
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Savior69
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Post by Savior69 » Mon Sep 20, 2004 7:55 pm

Bob wrote:
Seriously -- get a life, and just stay out of Center Camp if all you do is pee your pants about ice and coffee swillers. 'Nuff said.
I mistakenly didn't include the "leave it the way it is" option, which I realized right as I hit submit and re-did the post that is way down this disscussion list (moderator, if you see this, please delete this thread and merge it with the one with all 3 poll options if possible. Thanks)

Bob- Certainly not peeing my pants over here, its just an interesting debate, and a strange anomaly to the "No Vending" policy. It always gets a weird response when telling people about it, then saying "...except for coffee." I'm aware of the duality of life, and its no freaking big deal to me, really. Shit, if we want to raise money for Gerlach, why not some of that legal prostitution Nevada offers. Or Gambling. Or diapers as you suggest.

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mowgli
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Post by mowgli » Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:17 pm

Ice is essential if you are staying in the desert for a week and you want to eat decent food. Ice sales dont smack of commercial chain shops.

Coffee would be provided by citizens if they did not sell it it center camp. It sucks even having to take money out and look at it while your on the playa. It's all to "Starbucks" for me.

actiongrl
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Post by actiongrl » Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:33 pm

Well, the sale of the coffee basically pays for the creation and building of that lovely public space that you buy it in...and if you're a newbie, walking into a theme camp and meeting new folks can be intimidating, but a public space welcomes everyone, and many new people's first chance to meet new acquaintances happens in the cafe, where they don't ever have to look around and wonder if they're disrupting someone's living space.

My opinion is just like some others: don't go to center camp if you don't want to, but it does provide an important civic service (and I ain't talking about caffeination...that's the means to the end.)

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HughMungus
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Post by HughMungus » Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:09 pm

geekster wrote:My vote would be to continue selling coffe but take it out of the central tent. Make it a structure like the post office. Keep the tent for use for acoustic performances, etc. It is a nice reference point for meeting up with people too.
Yep. Kill two birds with one stone. Make center camp what it used to be.
It's what you make it.

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:33 pm

Urm... how far down on the evolutionary escalator do you wish to backslide?
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

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theCryptofishist
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Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:35 pm

Bob wrote:Urm... how far down on the evolutionary escalator do you wish to backslide?
Ooooh! Oooooh! Pick me! Pick me!

Primordial Ooze, please.


(the words "primordial ooze" don't appear on the internet often enough)

actiongrl
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Post by actiongrl » Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:19 pm

How about all the way back to Flash selling burgers?

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Ivy
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Post by Ivy » Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:28 pm

IMO, hamburgers are much more important than coffee. I'd probably buy a burger. It's much more difficult for me to grill up a burger in the desert than to make myself a cuppa joe.

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mars
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Post by mars » Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:26 pm

Is this all about what we as individuals need? I don't need coffee, ice, (OR HAMBURGERS) but I think the sales of coffee and ice are fine.

I enjoy the cafe vibe at center camp and I love watching people try to ride their bikes balancing a bag of ice.

I love the idea of absolutely no commerce, it's my definite preference to not have to think about, feel, or see money while on the playa, and I can create that experience for myself if I want to. So can you.

Mars
Live as if everyone loves you and thinks you look great. Dance as if no one is watching.

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SuZQ
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Post by SuZQ » Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:47 pm

actiongrl wrote:Well, the sale of the coffee basically pays for the creation and building of that lovely public space that you buy it in...and if you're a newbie, walking into a theme camp and meeting new folks can be intimidating, but a public space welcomes everyone, and many new people's first chance to meet new acquaintances happens in the cafe, where they don't ever have to look around and wonder if they're disrupting someone's living space.
Agreed. It's a good reason to go anywhere early in the day. I for one enjoy a big cup of coffee whilst watching an improv show before going to get my ice. I also found it kind of bonded the greater community in a ritualistic way. And as a newbie, it provided just what actiongrl said it provided.

So long as we don't get overcharged, I'm for it! But it should remain coffee only.

xSuZQ
Oh Bliss and heaven! Oh, it was gorgeousness and gorgeousity made flesh. It was like a bird of rarest-spun heaven metal or like silvery wine flowing in a spaceship, gravity all nonsense now. As I slooshied, I knew such lovely pictures! - Alex DeLarge

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Post by binaryuplink » Sun Oct 10, 2004 7:30 pm

i think their should be a centercamp starbucks style coffe shop or cart or pagoda or something every 15 feet just like starbucks we will never have to be with out it ......



ohh and yea befor you jump allover my back for this please relise its a joke and i really dont care what happens in center camp because i didnt spend any time there running the 100meter squatter hurtles
blea!!!

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Tancorix
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Post by Tancorix » Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:49 pm

I hate biased polls with limited choices. Bob's post covered the concern well.

Whatever happened to radical self reliance? Nobody needs ice or coffee on the playa. You can bring in your own coffee or chai, and ice can be handled by hauling it in yourself and practicing good cooler management.

If coffee and ice are now an untouchable / critical part of the event, what's next...having Pizza Hut bring in their mobile kitchen and bake pizzas on the playa for those who can't cook and might starve? Or bring in the Stagg Chili truck...how about bringing in more Hansen's products and Monster Energy drinks while you're at it. And how about extending the Center Camp grid and slap Lanceland: We power the playa banners all over the place, and introduce ice delivery so people won't be hurt trying to balance 4 bags of ice on their bikes riding back to camp?

AG does raise a good point about the social aspects of center camp, yet the cafe and Camp Artica take up space that could be put to better use. While I could rant on realistically it looks like no matter what's said here ice and coffee sales will stay...unless the hatted one decides otherwise. I hope that commerce doesn't expand beyond that...after reading through the on-playa survey i'm thinking the next commerce expansion will be an on-playa version of Cabelas / Home Despot / Trader Joes for the people who forgot stuff and are willing to fork over the cash to get it. If that comes to pass, you think the yahoo problem is bad now? The event many of us know and loved will be royally screwed. </soapbox></rant>

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poosie_kat
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Post by poosie_kat » Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:29 pm

Well, for my part, I like the fact that ice is sold at the event, even though I normally don't bring foods/drinks that REQUIRE ice, it is nice to have around if I want cold water. Coffee, chai, lemon aid, those emergenC drink packs though? Not for me. How do I deal with this? I don't bother to buy them. I don't purchase any of them. I may head down to center camp and check out the sights, chat with the people, but I don't agree with the selling of products, even coffee, out on the playa, so I don't contribute. Personally I'm not the biggest Center Camp goer anywho. If you're not down with it, don't contribute.

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stuart
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Post by stuart » Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:46 pm

mMMmmm, fresh pizza
call me baby

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:30 pm

I still want a cigarette machine.

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playasnake
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Post by playasnake » Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:25 am

Image
e pluribus unimog

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Post by The Fooley » Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:34 am

Now here ye, here ye, round up there folks and listen up a second...

I attended the BM as a newbie this year and by Jeebus did i have an experience of a lifetime, people i encountered, situations i found myself imersed in and feelings emotions i never thought i had...

not to side track from the issue guys but is the BM not about participation, expression being one of an extended family, community, you all know im sure of that but being the habitual creatures we are we easily forget lessons that were with the universe behind them sent our way... we all are aware of spirituality and the power of love and its energy... but we lose sight sometimes... the selling of coffee and ice is perfectly acceptable to me, in my opinion. i met so many souls and danced to so much music there (cetral cafe) it was a hive of activity, i felt part of the group/community.

we can't expect to escape 21st century life... most of us actuall like it! together with its pittfalls but a festival like BM is so rare, i feel special and most of all i feel human for my experience... i spent enough to get there (to Nevada) traveling from Ireland i'm not going to crib about a €2 cuppa coffee.... they deserve more for the effort they put in and the memories the give away..

love you all my brothers and sisters...

The newworld is on the horizon.... its about community and unity.
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Iago
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Post by Iago » Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:12 pm

Quote="Bob "I still want a cigarette machine."

I bet you would generate more money from it at the end of the week than all the ice and coffee they sold all week..

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