Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby unjonharley » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:16 pm

my first burn campmate and I read an ad in the AAA mag. Went to go on just that..

did a bunch of shit wrong... the whole word didn't fall on us for that..

So some rich guy reads a ad and gos for it.. Asshats on this board are out to burn the bastard at the stake..
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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby A-RockLeFrench » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:19 pm

Burning Man was running ads in AAA magazines? How long has this kind of crap been going on? Since 1987?

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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby kiboy » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:19 pm

Well that would be a shame if he doesn't and it brings up one of the difficulties in discussions of this nature. Gathering accurate information can be very difficult. Especially when some of the parties legally don't have to be open and transparent about their dealings. And then of course on the other side is slander, and outright lying to cover ones ass when they don't hold up their agreements. And from what I can see here that's how much of this is going to go unfortunately although anecdotal evidence is not to be dismissed outright.
So while my ears are open if I'm not hearing much real solid evidence I'm going to make up my mind somewhat on the gut hit I get off those make their subjective opinions known. Of course that's going to very likely reflect a bias on my part because as RAW (Robert Anton Wilson) so aptly said. what the thinker thinks, the prover proves Subjectively I have an opinion on all of this. I've entered this discussion to see what evidence can be presented that might alter that opinion. If there isn't any or enough I'll run with what I'm feeling, because if I don't let my voice be heard then I've missed my chance to be radically included. :P

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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby VultureChow » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:23 pm

unjonharley wrote:my first burn campmate and I read an ad in the AAA mag. Went to go on just that..

did a bunch of shit wrong... the whole word didn't fall on us for that..

So some rich guy reads a ad and gos for it.. Asshats on this board are out to burn the bastard at the stake..


Though I haven't really seen anyone really sharpening the pitchforks, you have a point. The other end of the spectrum is the hippies who show up with a bag of drugs, some protein bars and pubic lice. I wanted to make a hippie scarecrow this year to keep them away from food not meant for the general public.

What's worse? Someone who provide luxuriously for themselves but gives nothing, or someone who can't even be bothered to provide for themselves.
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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby kiboy » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:26 pm

unjonharley wrote:my first burn campmate and I read an ad in the AAA mag. Went to go on just that..

did a bunch of shit wrong... the whole word didn't fall on us for that..

So some rich guy reads a ad and gos for it.. Asshats on this board are out to burn the bastard at the stake..


And now on to your evidence? Personally I'm not getting the same hit as you are on many here going after the "rich guy". There's plenty of money here already. Like I said I've attended with a guy that is very millionairish. So much money I wouldn't know how to spend it without some real education. He rented a big rig but was part of our tent camp and played on the streets with the rest of us. Nobody was pointing fingers. There seems to be more to this than just being wealthy.

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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby kiboy » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:28 pm

VultureChow wrote:
unjonharley wrote:my first burn campmate and I read an ad in the AAA mag. Went to go on just that..

did a bunch of shit wrong... the whole word didn't fall on us for that..

So some rich guy reads a ad and gos for it.. Asshats on this board are out to burn the bastard at the stake..


Though I haven't really seen anyone really sharpening the pitchforks, you have a point. The other end of the spectrum is the hippies who show up with a bag of drugs, some protein bars and pubic lice. I wanted to make a hippie scarecrow this year to keep them away from food not meant for the general public.

What's worse? Someone who provide luxuriously for themselves but gives nothing, or someone who can't even be bothered to provide for themselves.


Well both are worse of course. Not providing for yourself is again missing out on the principles of BM from what I've read.

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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby BBadger » Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:15 pm

Jackass wrote:When their RVs, massive generators, and 8ft high plywood walls stare you in the face where you've always chosen to camp, then your POV may change, or not...


As opposed to a non-PnP camp that is doing the same? If your beef is with large camps that put up walls, then by all means complain about that. It's not a PnP-exclusive phenomena. Furthermore, is a PnP camp just fine if it stays out in the J-ring?

kiboy wrote:For myself I'd like to see some lower scale downsized versions in similar type locals. God do I love the desert environment. But I'm in my late years and I don't have the energy to start up such a thing so I'll have to take what is offered. Honestly I'm not sure where to stand on all this.


You don't need to start anything. Go to Regionals for that experience. They're actually quite nice, with a more close-knit community.

Corvus wrote:My concern is about the camp Mr. GotRocks is staying in. Does it contribute anything to the city? If it does, great. If it doesn't, and Placement is doing its job, the camp doesn't get placed next year and the operator gets no EAs and no guaranteed contiguous square footage. He can't deliver the promised "experience" to his clients, word gets around, and he has a hard sell the year after that.


I'm all for a fair assessment of whether or where camps get placed for what they do, as is done with LNT. Even "zoning statutes" to ensure that camps meet standards for appearance, etc. would be fine. However, whether they're "plug-and-play" or "not-so-plug-and-play" is just too subjective. "OMG Doc Pyro brings a shower for others to use when they pay for dues?!! PLUG AND PLAY!!!"
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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby BBadger » Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:15 pm

VultureChow wrote:But Plug N Plays aren't just selling lodging and food and clothing and servants. They are selling us. They are selling the experience we create. And we have no way of consenting to it. We are the animals in the zoo and they are paying to watch us and play around us, comfortable in the belief that the 10 principles have trained us not to attack.


To that I ask: what are you missing out on because someone is selling tickets to this "zoo"? Dignity? That you're not receiving your cut?

And did you create what you create as part of a bargain with others, or just because you wanted to share? Is "gifting" a really just a present-exchange?

I think the core of the matter is this: the hardest thing to let go when going to BM is the need to be compensated by others for what you do.

Let it go and nobody can own you.
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Re: Self-righteous, truth-resenting burners having a tantrum

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:25 pm

no comment.
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Re: Self-righteous, truth-resenting burners having a tantrum

Postby kiboy » Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:30 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:no comment.

That was a comment. :wink:

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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby kiboy » Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:58 pm

This all is really good for me. I've been reading the 10 principles of Burning Man. You know in the past I really didn't pay them much mind innocent midwest country boy that I was. What's interesting is it looks like my actions, in spite of my ignorance, did not violate any, to any major degree.

However in looking them over I can see several ways in which someone playing P&P could avoid engaging with many of the principles of Burning Man. I think if I'm going to have a reasonable objection it would have to be found there.

Unfortunately It seems the BM organization is not setting a sterling example of practicing them all itself. However that failure is limited and do I/we want it to expand that and if so how far would I/we want that to go before the principle becomes completely moot and can be abandoned and would that then have a decidedly negative impact on the event for the majority? Because my friends very little goes from point A to Z directly. It's A to B ,or not to B, that is the question.

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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby BBadger » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:05 pm

5280MeV wrote:While I agree that the churchiness and ensuing vitriol is unhelpful, I think that BBadger's post is really mostly a strawman. This really isn't about wealth resentment at all, even though there has been considerable effort to try to frame it that way.


I do think it is about wealth resentment, if only because the same standard isn't being applied to similar things at the event. It's only because a PnP camp is supposedly full of rich people that people are getting uppity over the whole thing. When something symbolic of wealth, like a Segway, is seen the reaction isn't "oh, that's just someone else's personal transportation" it's "oh, that person is rich, and anyone who rides one of those is not a contributor" even if both people are doing the same thing.

Some responses say something to the effect, "oh I'm not so annoyed with rich people and PnP camps, but I just think they should be 'participating.'" Only I have to question why these two things are linked in the same sentence. It's as if attending a PnP camp automatically implies that you are not a contributor of some sort. It doesn't, but someone spending money for camp services seems to imply it.

This resentment of PnP camps and the money that funds them, or symbols of wealth such as Segways, should not be a basis for concluding that someone is not a "participant" or for that matter, will not become a participant at some other point in time.

Really this is about vending, plain and simple. It is a very interesting loophole that certainly meets the letter of the BLM regulations to vend at Burning Man by insisting that all monetary exchanges take place before the event. That is what occurs. I can go to a commercial festival and buy a fancy drink or a yoga lesson. I can buy one at Burning Man, I just need to negotiate and pay for it in advance.


Which is ... about the same with everything you buy prior to the event? Or is the distinction drawn here that a service is rendered, rather than a product purchased?

To me, I'm seeing the same level of money being thrown around, nearly the same level of comfort, and the same level of "participation" as it were for people to enjoy the event. What is the distinction that makes one seem so incredibly bad? If it is so bad, why aren't people up in arms over something like the Burner Express? People are paying a good amount to be driven in on buses like they're going to casino resort, only to lodge at a camp set up by other people in camp. What about people renting their bikes or other camping gear? Or paying for pump services or fuel services?

Or is it because this is "all inclusive" in which case, why is a rented RV not such an abomination (or maybe it was yesterday's abomination)? What about these camps where people pay their dues and someone brings the showers, the main community area, etc.? What about those people who arrive later in the week after everything is set up?

It's so relative...

... but when PnP camps are mentioned... oh my... these assholes are the true downfall of Burning Man. These rich people on Segways with caterers. We know they can't possibly be contributing because they're not pitching their own tents or pedaling their secondhand furry bike like "real" participants do.

I don't see what is so great about a festival in which I have to buy all-inclusive things in advance. It would be better if I could get to the festival and buy what I wanted a-la-carte when I decided I would like it. I don't really see any value in this particular restriction.

Honestly, I think that the reality is that there has been a lot of vending at Burning Man for a very long time, but it has generally been very discrete, limited, or performed as pragmatically necessary. What it sounds like from all this outrage is that this discretion is slowly eroding, and the whole idea of no-vending or decommodification is sort of a joke or a sham.


Yes, that is the reality: to believe that Burning Man does not deal in commodities, or that people do not make money from the event, is absolutely naive. The "decommodification" is at the event. Everything outside is no holds barred, except maybe attempts to prevent scalping. We don't build this city from just dust, but using money, labor, and resources. People just need to get into their heads that they come to Burning Man to enjoy it and that "participation" is something they want to do, not a requirement for attendance.

Maybe it's not even a terrible thing. Services like Burner Express alleviate road traffic and allows more people to attend. If these PnP camps can do the same, by all means let them. There are already services at Burning Man that allow camps to purchase fuel and power. Wow, imagine that. Consolidating resources can reduce prices and strain on infrastructure.

Plug and Play camps could actually be considered a good thing too, as they reduce strain on public services like bathrooms, and often have good LNT records. They're model camps in that regard. If seeing RV cities isn't what people want to see near the Esplanade, these camps can be forced to the boondocks, or they can spend more effort to earn their place closer.
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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby BBadger » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:14 pm

kiboy wrote:However in looking them over I can see several ways in which someone playing P&P could avoid engaging with many of the principles of Burning Man. I think if I'm going to have a reasonable objection it would have to be found there.


Please elaborate on how they don't engage with many of the principles, and/or why this is automatically implied. Really, this could be applied to the majority of people and camps you encounter at the event.

I would also like to point out that the person you see now is not necessarily the person you will see in the future. How many burgins did very little their first year, only to come back again with a bang? Why can't this also be applied to PnPers?

I say let them come and witness the best that humanity has to offer. Let them be inspired by what they see and possibly contribute to it. This even it is not just about what people are doing now.
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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby kiboy » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:16 pm

I think you make some solid points. However this makes Principle NO. 3 moot imo (maybe it almost always was and we just were pretending). I'd say then open the flood gates and let it all in. I'll buy my food instead of bringing it and have more choices and less work and I can think of a lot of other shit I won't be rigging up myself. All I need is a little more cash to spend and that's probably good for the local economy right? I like the idea of right to your camp catering. Maybe by a half naked hardbody girl/guy.

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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby tamarakay » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:21 pm

Building our stuff, figuring it all out and getting to the playa and thriving there has been an eye opening gift to my husband and myself. To have macglenver come into our public space and tell me our monkey hut rocked made my burn this year. Problem solving and building opened my mind to the possibility of creating other things.

Having said that, if I win the lottery will I pay someone to schlep in my camp? Hell fucking yes I will. :shock: Campmates would get the splurge too. Free my cranky butt up to do something else.
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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby graidawg » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:23 pm

so bbadger what you are saying is if we see something we diagree with and post about it trying to find a solution we should stfu and do nothing - its not our party we dont make the rules,besides we buy our tents from eureka our food fromwhole foods SO WE ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM TOO.
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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby FIGJAM » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:28 pm

I seriously doubt you would mistreat the help or lie to hire them.

The producer of this camp did and when some quit, posted a notice to hire more help for CASH on the playa.

This was no "virgin burner", but a 6 year vet who's on the board that said a big "FUCK YOU" to most of the guidelines of the event.

BBager, if you're not getting that, I think you missed the point.
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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby tamarakay » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:44 pm

The behavior of one producer in one camp doesn't paint all in the group. I would imagine some plug and plays were exclusionary and didn't offer much up in the way of participatory interaction. I would imagine some rocked it. I met an asshole that brought all his own stuff, was radically self sufficient etc. camped in a tent, is suspected of putting sugar in a neighbors generator, had nothing good to say about anything, left not a trace of moop. Does that make all solo campers suspect?

If you are an asshole, you are an asshole regardless of wealth.
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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby kiboy » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:52 pm

tamarakay wrote:The behavior of one producer in one camp doesn't paint all in the group. I would imagine some plug and plays were exclusionary and didn't offer much up in the way of participatory interaction. I would imagine some rocked it. I met an asshole that brought all his own stuff, was radically self sufficient etc. camped in a tent, is suspected of putting sugar in a neighbors generator, had nothing good to say about anything, left not a trace of moop. Does that make all solo campers suspect?

If you are an asshole, you are an asshole regardless of wealth.


Yes assholes are there in all the economic ranks. For me that's not an issue. My question is, are there some decisions on how to do Burning Man that will encourage assholiness and might it be good to avoid them or at least regulate them in ways that would make being an asshole as difficult as it already is at the Man. For example, thieves are discouraged in BRC due to the remoteness and difficulties of existing in a place like a playa desert.

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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby BBadger » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:58 pm

kiboy wrote:I think you make some solid points. However this makes Principle NO. 3 moot imo (maybe it almost always was and we just were pretending). I'd say then open the flood gates and let it all in. I'll buy my food instead of bringing it and have more choices and less work and I can think of a lot of other shit I won't be rigging up myself. All I need is a little more cash to spend and that's probably good for the local economy right?


It's not moot. It's a principle to put you in the mindset that what you do and create is not for compensation. The fact that you buy a ticket, supplies, or even ice at the event does not diminish that mindset when it comes to how you interact with the remainder of the event.

Free yourself from the need to feel compensated. You're not in a zoo to be watched, or being taken advantaged of. You're enjoying the event and "participating" because it makes you feel good, because you want to do it regardless of what someone else gives you in return.

tamarakay wrote:Having said that, if I win the lottery will I pay someone to schlep in my camp? Hell fucking yes I will. :shock: Campmates would get the splurge too. Free my cranky butt up to do something else.


I know right? Because if dealing with that shit were what BM were all about we could just as well deal with that in our back yards. We go to enjoy BM. We go to bring things and do things because that's what we do. If money makes that process easier, by all means let's use it. Money buys time, and we only have so much time on the playa. It's no sin to pay to make things easier for yourself.

graidawg wrote:so bbadger what you are saying is if we see something we diagree with and post about it trying to find a solution we should stfu and do nothing - its not our party we dont make the rules,besides we buy our tents from eureka our food fromwhole foods SO WE ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM TOO.


No Grai. It's obvious you didn't read what I said, as you implied in your first post here. I'm saying that if you're making unfounded assumptions about the nature of people you're merely observing at a single point in time, that you have no proof to back your assertions other than what you perceive is a symbol of wealth (like a Segway), then yes, shut the fuck up because you're talking out your ass and your statements are entirely devoid of value.

Don't let the lack of facts get in the way of a good ASSumption right?

If you're talking about tangible things like abuse of labor, money not being recycled into the community, big messes left by camps, or something like that, great, now you have something to argue. If you're just bitter and making unfounded statements, yeah, STFU and start doing things rather than complaining.

FIGJAM wrote:I seriously doubt you would mistreat the help or lie to hire them.

The producer of this camp did and when some quit, posted a notice to hire more help for CASH on the playa.

This was no "virgin burner", but a 6 year vet who's on the board that said a big "FUCK YOU" to most of the guidelines of the event.

BBager, if you're not getting that, I think you missed the point.


FIGJAM, with all due respect, you're being entirely disingenuous believing that was "the point" of the thread. Don't pretend it was. That thread shifted topics seven (7) pages in; the majority was about bitching about PnP camps and participation and wealth resentment. Furthermore, nothing about a camp being "plug and play" implies that they "abuse the help," nor should you believe that this is a PnP-camp exclusive problem. The "point" I am making is about how people approach the concept of PnP camps and their members, and what they assume about them. If you want to discuss worker abuse, specific asshole (PnP) camps that should be outed, or any such topics, those should be in an entirely different topic and not limit it to PnP camps, which is too limited in scope.
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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby kiboy » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:06 pm

It's not moot. It's a principle to put you in the mindset that what you do and create is not for compensation. The fact that you buy a ticket, supplies, or even ice at the event does not diminish that mindset when it comes to how you interact with the remainder of the event.

Free yourself from the need to feel compensated. You're not in a zoo to be watched, or being taken advantaged of. You're enjoying the event and "participating" because it makes you feel good, because you want to do it regardless of what someone else gives you in return.


I never said anything about needing to feel compensated for my gifts to others. However if someone else is buying the event then I want to also according to my means. . I can't afford $17,000 but I can afford some catering in my camp and being able to buy some food service out on the playa and maybe water deliveries. Frees me up from cooking and cleaning chores so I can play more and I can haul more toys if I don't have to carry all that water. Hell maybe I can get in on the ground floor of renting out bucket swamp coolers so folk don't have to make them and they can be more comfy in the tent. Everybody wins.

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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby FIGJAM » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:22 pm

"FIGJAM, with all due respect, you're being entirely disingenuous believing that was "the point" of the thread. Don't pretend it was. That thread shifted topics seven (7) pages in; the majority was about bitching about PnP camps and participation and wealth resentment."

I wasn't being disingenuous, I just didn't interpret it the way you did.

kiboy, please don't commercialize MY gift!!! :roll:
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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby Elderberry » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:27 pm

FIGJAM wrote:I seriously doubt you would mistreat the help or lie to hire them.

The producer of this camp did and when some quit, posted a notice to hire more help for CASH on the playa.

This was no "virgin burner", but a 6 year vet who's on the board that said a big "FUCK YOU" to most of the guidelines of the event.

BBager, if you're not getting that, I think you missed the point.

I think that two things are getting confused in this discussion and most of the other threads talking about this as well.

First, there is the concept of PnP, and secondly, the terrible way one specific PnP behaved.

I think we all agree that one camp and their treatment of employees was disgraceful if not out and out illegal.

What seems to be keeping the subject going around in circles is thinking they are one and the same.
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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:30 pm

i would have to agree with Elderberry on this.

the two are indeed, different issues.

one could make a linkage, but that would be more philosphical, and not as logical.

perhaps, a third thread is in order...


(oh dear g*d, no....i'm just kidding)
Frida Be You & Me

kiboy
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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby kiboy » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:43 pm

kiboy, please don't commercialize MY gift!!! :roll:


Too late. :| Time marches on.

Don't believe everything you think.

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Bin Noddin
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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby Bin Noddin » Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:13 pm

In UnJon's case, since 1887.

A-RockLeFrench wrote:Burning Man was running ads in AAA magazines? How long has this kind of crap been going on? Since 1987?
"I have gobs of mustard and ketchup on the front of my shirt, which does not make me a hot dog." Sam A. McKeen

pink
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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby pink » Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:44 pm

If I won the lottery, I wouldn't pay someone to schelp...just doesn't feel right. I might get an RV that's big enough to have an actual bed, and my night's dinner might be steak instead of grilled cheese, but hell, the stuff in camp I don't like to do I don't volunteer for, or at least not too often. I like that our camp is created by us as a group, with all contributing different skills.

Shit, I go to burning man to get away from all that kind of crap; why would I want to deal with employees on the playa?
I'm not a slut, I'm good time floozy!

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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby maladroit » Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:56 pm

Burning Man is NOT actually a place to "do it right." It is, at heart, someplace you can do it wrong, over and over again. Burning Man is a city based on failure, disappointment, sorrow, hardship, shattered expectations. We quite literally wipe the slate blank every year, to try again later.

You might do more things right next year...or perhaps your frame of reference will shift to make it seem so. You might be proud of your monkeyhut or your RV...but you're still a failure scrabbling in a fragile plastic shack, barely able to perceive your place as a randomly wandering dust mote on the surface of a tiny rock near a tiny star. Another rock could scratch a tiny amount of surface contamination off this rock, and the human race would be gone...and nothing would change.

Civilization is designed to help us forget that we're all failures. We create so many safety nets around ourselves, and redefine the meaning of failure to the point that some of us believe we're not all that much of a failure, and might actually be sort of good at things. It makes us think that we can do things that actually matter.

Burning Man might be a place that takes away some of the safety nets, where we can be reminded that we all suck on a cosmic scale. Yet we are able to experience this universe in a way that a pool of methane or a crumbling lava flow cannot. We can communicate, touch, feel love and hate, create something incredibly tiny but breathtakingly beautiful. We can hope that someone has zoomed far enough into this fractal to see our tiny corner of it and recognize that we're twirling our last intricate dance a mere moment from annihilation.

Or we could be the most important beings in the universe and we're having a big dubstep party in the desert to laugh at our former selves cowering from nature's fury.

Should it bother me that people can come to Burning Man and watch me fail, without any hope of understanding the failure because they paid someone else to do it for them? Should it bother me that when a Segway rolls by, it feels almost the same as if a Fox News van rolled by? I am about to be judged by a spectator rather than a community member?

I think that it should not bother me, but it will take time to choke down that reaction.

BBadger is correct in saying that some of this is resenting the rich. However, I don't think it's because they have money, it's because the rich are trying to make BRC more like the default world. Of course the city and the event will evolve over time, but I think we can draw the line at paying people to go to Burning Man to stroke your importance in a sea of people who honestly don't give a shit who you are.

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Nipple
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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby Nipple » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:07 pm

I think these are really important conversations for us to be having.

There's a movement and culture here that is relatively young. We're going to have growing pains... and honestly, if it ever hopes to be something beyond a big dirty party, we're going to need people with clout and resources in the society outside of Black Rock City.

I think it's really valuable for those people to come to BRC and experience it. I've read that some come back a second and third year, and get it. I think that's rad.

I resent people like "Pete" who use their resources to fuck the "poors." Those folks I feel are the real cancer in our city.

I'll add the caveat... The folks I camped with this year... there was a lot of luxury. We have infrastructure in our camp. We had a Christopher Walken fridge, a shower, 2 deep chest freezers, a professional gas range from a restaurant, and two smokers. We had water delivery service, and black water removal service. I'm not against cushy desert living conditions.

Bbadger: I like what you said about the regionals. Did you go to SOAK? I'd love for SOAK to eventually get to the size where it has similar problems.

kiboy
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Re: Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

Postby kiboy » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:32 pm

maladroit wrote:Burning Man is NOT actually a place to "do it right." It is, at heart, someplace you can do it wrong, over and over again. Burning Man is a city based on failure, disappointment, sorrow, hardship, shattered expectations. We quite literally wipe the slate blank every year, to try again later.

You might do more things right next year...or perhaps your frame of reference will shift to make it seem so. You might be proud of your monkeyhut or your RV...but you're still a failure scrabbling in a fragile plastic shack, barely able to perceive your place as a randomly wandering dust mote on the surface of a tiny rock near a tiny star. Another rock could scratch a tiny amount of surface contamination off this rock, and the human race would be gone...and nothing would change.

Civilization is designed to help us forget that we're all failures. We create so many safety nets around ourselves, and redefine the meaning of failure to the point that some of us believe we're not all that much of a failure, and might actually be sort of good at things. It makes us think that we can do things that actually matter.

Burning Man might be a place that takes away some of the safety nets, where we can be reminded that we all suck on a cosmic scale. Yet we are able to experience this universe in a way that a pool of methane or a crumbling lava flow cannot. We can communicate, touch, feel love and hate, create something incredibly tiny but breathtakingly beautiful. We can hope that someone has zoomed far enough into this fractal to see our tiny corner of it and recognize that we're twirling our last intricate dance a mere moment from annihilation.

Or we could be the most important beings in the universe and we're having a big dubstep party in the desert to laugh at our former selves cowering from nature's fury.

Should it bother me that people can come to Burning Man and watch me fail, without any hope of understanding the failure because they paid someone else to do it for them? Should it bother me that when a Segway rolls by, it feels almost the same as if a Fox News van rolled by? I am about to be judged by a spectator rather than a community member?

I think that it should not bother me, but it will take time to choke down that reaction.

BBadger is correct in saying that some of this is resenting the rich. However, I don't think it's because they have money, it's because the rich are trying to make BRC more like the default world. Of course the city and the event will evolve over time, but I think we can draw the line at paying people to go to Burning Man to stroke your importance in a sea of people who honestly don't give a shit who you are.



^ this, all this. What a fucking great post. You gave me a new perspective to chew on. Off topic but I really like all you folk ,agree or disagree, you are pretty thoughtful and snarky and it wouldn't be the same without you and your weird opinions. It would be great to score a ticket in 2015. Oh and this place has truly sucky smilies.

Don't believe everything you think.


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