Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
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Lonesomebri
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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by Lonesomebri » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:47 pm

There, in my mind, is a very similar exchange going on here regarding contentious issues, as what goes on in the default world regarding social conflict. Be it Civil Rights, Women’s Rights, Gay Rights, Climate Change, War, Health Care, Integration, etc. There are those who refuse to see the issue, refuse to see a problem, refuse to seek a solution. These types say “There is no problem, and I don’t want to hear about it.” When there is too large of an outcry to ignore this away, then it’s “There is not enough information.” “We have to wait for all the facts before thinking or acting.” “Nothing is actually known.” And then, while bemoaning a lack of info, they insist that “this issue has been talked to death.” “Why continue focusing on this?” “What is to be gained by dwelling on these problems?” Saying that there is not enough information, and with the same breathe saying that the issue is getting too much attention. And then, when all else fails, simply claiming that nothing can be done, it's all out of human control. Civil Rights....war...health care... Same old same old.

It will be interesting to see the response to these issues on playa, issues that actually do exist, that are human-caused, and are open to human inspired solutions. I feel that a Code of Ethics and Best Practices discussion and regulations are more likely an outcome for these problems in the future, rather than counting on mass delusion by ignoring the problems.
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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by Dr. Pyro » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:35 pm

You sound like some sort of commie leftist to me.

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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by FIGJAM » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:00 am

From the JRS..............................



Turnkey Camps at Burning Man — an Ongoing Conversation


Turnkey camps in Black Rock City are the talk of the community lately, and understandably so. Theme camps that provide all-inclusive camping services for (sometimes large) fees mean that many people visit Black Rock City who wouldn’t otherwise experience Burning Man, but they also raise questions about Radical Self-Reliance, Communal Effort and Decommodification that challenge our core values.

While this is going to be an ongoing conversation, we wanted to let you know that we share your concerns. Right now we're taking in your feedback, looking at the situation carefully, and talking to the parties involved. We’re trying to create an accurate picture of what’s happening – we are gathering facts to understand the scope and nature of the problems associated with Turnkey camps. This is a continuation of a process that started with a roundtable discussion with Turnkey camp organizers two years ago, and included the creation of Turnkey Camping Guidelines.

Right now our various teams are deep in their debrief processes for the 2014 event - what worked, what didn't, and what changes should be made for next year. Turnkey camps are currently being discussed at all levels of the organization and we are reviewing the options available for making positive changes.

And, we’d appreciate your formal input. If you have had a first hand experience with a Turnkey camp – either as a producer, a staff member, a participant or as a community member, please let us know about your experience through our feedback form.

We know that if we all work together as a community, we can find a way to stay true to Radical Inclusion without undermining the rest of the Ten Principles. This community has faced similar challenges throughout its history, and this probably won't be the last one. Indeed, our society would not be a real community if such challenges did not occur.

We'll figure out the way forward together.

Stay tuned for more on this topic in the near future!
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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by unjonharley » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:25 am

Now! Let this thread die..
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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by kiboy » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:12 am

OK but I'd like to have the last word. WORD!

Don't believe everything you think.

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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by Elderberry » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:22 am

unjonharley wrote:Now! Let this thread die..
Yes. Please!

For your convenience, here is a link to the feedback form. Please post further comments there where they can actually have an effect.

http://www.burningman.com/participate/f ... _2014.html

(sorry kiboy)
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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by kiboy » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:58 am

damn!








:twisted:

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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by some seeing eye » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:09 am

The intent of the thread was toward something constructive rather than the many pages of displaying criticism.

By all means kill it, so the other threads that are nonsensical and will have no impact can bloom. Let a hundred flowers bloom, isn't that what Mao said?
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion

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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by Elderberry » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:40 am

some seeing eye wrote:The intent of the thread was toward something constructive rather than the many pages of displaying criticism.

By all means kill it, so the other threads that are nonsensical and will have no impact can bloom. Let a hundred flowers bloom, isn't that what Mao said?
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

It was a galant effort.
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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by Lonesomebri » Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:00 pm

Dr. Pyro wrote:You sound like some sort of commie leftist to me.
Then I'm doing it right.
I do love all the calls for ignorance. "Please, don't tell me anything, I revel in not knowing, while blaming others."
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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by Lonesomebri » Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:07 pm

FIGJAM wrote:From the JRS..............................
Turnkey Camps at Burning Man — an Ongoing Conversation...
...Turnkey camps in Black Rock City are the talk of the community lately, and understandably so.
No thanks, and all jeers, to everyone who tried, and are still feverishly trying, to shut down this discussion. Thanks for raising your hands to be acknowledged for your efforts. Keep trying.
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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by Elderberry » Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:50 pm

Lonesomebri wrote:
FIGJAM wrote:From the JRS..............................
Turnkey Camps at Burning Man — an Ongoing Conversation...
...Turnkey camps in Black Rock City are the talk of the community lately, and understandably so.
No thanks, and all jeers, to everyone who tried, and are still feverishly trying, to shut down this discussion. Thanks for raising your hands to be acknowledged for your efforts. Keep trying.
Hahaha Another conspiracy theory? The conversation is getting boring and nothing said here will have any effect as o the outcome. That's the only reason I wish it would stop and people would use the link to make their voices heard where they might actually make a difference. I see now why you're lonesome. :shock: :wink: :D
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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by FIGJAM » Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:52 pm

I posted that so people would send it all to where it would do the most good, if any.

http://www.burningman.com/participate/f ... _2014.html
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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by Elderberry » Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:13 pm

FIGJAM wrote:I posted that so people would send it all to where it would do the most good, if any.

http://www.burningman.com/participate/f ... _2014.html
Me too! 8)
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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by Lonesomebri » Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:40 pm

Elderberry wrote: I see now why you're lonesome. :shock: :wink: :D
Hilarious, and so original......like alot of the fruity input here. Did you think of that yourself? You should really write for Leno. Anyway, this forum here is going to stir up alot of comments sent to the link that will get stuff done. It's not as if this thread exists in a vacuum. Why not ignore these threadds if they offend you so? Why so intent on shutting down the discussion? Why are you so afraid of public discussions? We will see if after they get a few responses down at Bmorg HQ if they decide to ignore it and wish it away like so many here vote to do.
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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by Elderberry » Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:41 pm

lonesomebri wrote:Hilarious, and so original......like alot of the fruity input here.
Hey! I resemble that remark. :shock:

It ain't a democracy.
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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by kiboy » Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:41 pm

Elderberry wrote:
lonesomebri wrote:Hilarious, and so original......like alot of the fruity input here.
Hey! I resemble that remark. :shock:

It ain't a democracy.
That means input not allowed? From what I've read from the Borg they are listening.

Don't believe everything you think.

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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by FIGJAM » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:30 pm

Just watched "Spark" and made a couple of observations.

Harley K. Dubois , Chief Transition Officer stated that PNPs could be the ruin of Burning Man.

This was the year of the first sell out and brought up most of what we're discussing as far as tickets for essential personnel for THEME camp infrastructure and getting the art built.

The other thing was the head of playa school's argument that the people paying for the all inclusive packages wanted to jump right into their experience without pre-prep.

Then when he's on the playa, he's surprised that he can't walk ten feet in camp without someone asking what to do about SOMETHING THE CUSTOMER WHASN'T PREPARED FOR!!! :lol:

It ain't about the money!

It's about the whole process that creates the experience.

Some prepping is essential to develop enough self reliance to not need your hand held for every little thing that comes up.

The paying customer has that very expectation!
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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by Jovankat » Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:57 am

FIGJAM wrote: Then when he's on the playa, he's surprised that he can't walk ten feet in camp without someone asking what to do about SOMETHING THE CUSTOMER WHASN'T PREPARED FOR!!! :lol:

It ain't about the money!

It's about the whole process that creates the experience.

Some prepping is essential to develop enough self reliance to not need your hand held for every little thing that comes up.

The paying customer has that very expectation!
I had this happen to a small extent in our camp, it gets old real quick and is why I'd warn anyone thinking about running a camp to consider how it will effect their experience of the burn. As much as I enjoyed doing all the pre-playa prep myself I think a more communal organisational structure would be better for everyone in future.

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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by FIGJAM » Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:35 am

Find a volunteer to be in charge of "stupid questions".

OR

Make sure everyone has been educated so that once on playa the rule is "Figure it out for yourself"!

FIOFY!!!!!!!!!! 8)
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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by FIGJAM » Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:37 am

Tell the person that they have a "Playa Puzzle" and their challenge is to figure it out.

The prize is a cookie. 8)
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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by Jovankat » Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:40 am

Yeah if you're running a camp and have virgins you should have a plan for acculturating them before the burn, it will make your life a lot easier and help them get into the vibe a lot faster I think. I didn't manage to do quite enough this year.

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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by Elderberry » Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:33 am

Except for the problem with the tickets and the help, there is actually no reason that those two things (PnP and the process) by requiring some level of actually participation.
FIGJAM wrote:Just watched "Spark" and made a couple of observations.

Harley K. Dubois , Chief Transition Officer stated that PNPs could be the ruin of Burning Man.

This was the year of the first sell out and brought up most of what we're discussing as far as tickets for essential personnel for THEME camp infrastructure and getting the art built.

The other thing was the head of playa school's argument that the people paying for the all inclusive packages wanted to jump right into their experience without pre-prep.

Then when he's on the playa, he's surprised that he can't walk ten feet in camp without someone asking what to do about SOMETHING THE CUSTOMER WHASN'T PREPARED FOR!!! :lol:

It ain't about the money!

It's about the whole process that creates the experience.

Some prepping is essential to develop enough self reliance to not need your hand held for every little thing that comes up.

The paying customer has that very expectation!
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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by trilobyte » Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:51 am

To give feedback to Burning Man about Turnkey/Plug & Play camps or some other aspect of the event, use the form on this page.

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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by forty_eight » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:36 am

My feedback:

I think turnkey camping undermines the transformative opportunities of the event. We speak about Radical Inclusion, but what good is being included in the event as a bystander. Theme camp dues and division of labor is one thing, but over the top camp fees with promised amenities and onsite service staff is something seemingly quite different. To me, it takes a very cynical view of things to interpret a bought and paid for BM experience as anything more than a commodity. Turnkey campers just may not have enough skin in the game to stretch their perspective on communal effort and self reliance. It all just seems manufactured and fake. The main takeaway I would like to share is that the board of directors may want to strive to not directly facilitate or otherwise coordinate such camps. It calls into question the integrity and authenticity of the event itself, and with all the greatness that has come out of this event, it would be a travesty to undermine it good intentions aside.

Maybe others will post their feedback that they have shared at the link. It seems there may be different perspectives about turnkey camping among ePlaya members. All I would hope is that we can have this be one of many places where we can share our perspectives and learn and grow from that process. I know I try to not have a stubbornly fixed point of view about these things.

Seems like we need to reaffirm some advice we give all the time ... if you don't like what you are seeing in one part of ePlaya/Playa, check out some other part.

And mods may have to read every thread (or not), so if they are bored or otherwise frustrated by thread content, that is really their problem. I would just add this last bit - Mod hat on, Mod hat off - Mods need to be careful in how they interact with rank and file posters. There will always be a perception, rightly or wrongly, that posters with screennames in green are in a position of influence and power. Express yourself freely, but understand there can unintended interpretations of your points of view since you represent quasi-officialdom. Take it with a grain of playa dust ... just my $.02.

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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by kiboy » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:44 am

Thanks for sharing that.

Don't believe everything you think.

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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by Lonesomebri » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:58 am

While registering your views with an official form is probably a good thing to do. As for me, what with my hassle this past year of having been asked for my STEP log-in and my eplaya info, the form asking for my name and email seems to make the screening process for who attends all that easier. The fact that the form is being pushed by the Bmorg that helped set up the hotels out on 9, along with the don't-rock-the-boat brigade here makes hopes for any open debate and discussion from the form nil. I really like the open debate and discussion. Ideas and opinions bouncing off each other. People feeding off each other, changing perspectives. The form keeps all that hidden. Whatever the authorities at BRC do (and we have witnessed it here), I'll keep plugging away. On the form page it says that all entries will be read by the correct department. I believe the rank and file is an entity, a very important one, one that is involved and can be informed and make decisions. And, oh my fucking god, isn't that what makes the Burn what it is, that and fire, and explosions, shirt-cockers, DJs, dust, tamales, hula hoops................
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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:08 pm

forty_eight wrote:And mods may have to read every thread (or not), so if they are bored or otherwise frustrated by thread content, that is really their problem.
They do. Every single post. Even from the people I've plonked.
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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by Elderberry » Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:37 pm

Lonesomebri wrote:Whatever the authorities at BRC do (and we have witnessed it here), I'll keep plugging away.
Can you give me a specific example? Otherwise, I call bull shit on that. (in my unofficial capacity as a regular user of the board)
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Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices

Post by Lonesomebri » Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:08 pm

Elderberry wrote:
Lonesomebri wrote:Whatever the authorities at BRC do (and we have witnessed it here), I'll keep plugging away.
Can you give me a specific example? Otherwise, I call bull shit on that. (in my unofficial capacity as a regular user of the board)
The Plug and Plays being set up by Bmorg members, the composition of the Burning Man Project, the moop map, Sherpa girl, the recent addition of a Bmorg compliant moderator, etc. which came out as info right on these boards if you paid any attention to those things instead of being bored and laying out your lame insults calling me a woman and a child.
I call your bullshit and raise you. Have you learned nothing? The worst type of ignorance, self imposed.
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