Beginning of the end?

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
socks2
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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by socks2 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:07 pm

You tell me
We have now have 10,000 dedicated tickets to the special camps to make sure they attend. They get something most burners would love to have
a guaranteed ticket to buy. So now we have classes of burners
We now have VIP tickets reserved for better people than you and I
We now have plug and play camps pimping out the man and us for a profit. All of this with the blessing of the bm.org So much for decommodifcation
We now have a board member linked to some plug and play to make a profit, So much for trusting the board to do what is right
We now have private parties requiring wrist band to get past the bouncers So much for radical inclusion
If you saw the moop map it clearly showed the plug and play camps trashed our playa, So much for leaving no trace
If you saw the placement of the plug and play camps had along with EA passes to allow them to build their private camps for their paying customers
Those camps had no problem getting tickets unlike most of us
The 10 principles do not mean a thing to those camps. They live by only 1 principle making a profit.
So unless you are at sleep at the wheel ,yes things are changing but not for the better

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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by trilobyte » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:35 pm

No, it's not the beginning of the end. Nor is it the beginning of the end of threads and prophecies of it being the beginning of the end. Hell, as earth-shattering news and drama surrounding the event goes... it's probably not even in the top 10. The prophecies of doom were better last year

People have been wailing and gnashing their teeth about it being over, or ruined forever for longer than I've been participating in the event. Commercialization, media attention, haves vs. have nots, spectators vs. artists <insert gripe here>...

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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by kiboy » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:38 pm

Socks2

Was this, if true, inevitable? Growing revenues to attract those interested in profits? Entropy? Rapid Growth?

I've never see anything not change. Now I almost said and rarely for the better but I realized that that would likely be more due to an actual bias on my part that a universal truth. I think the very early early days of BM wouldn't have suited my taste any more than what is likely coming. My sweet spot was around 2000 to 2004.

Don't believe everything you think.

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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by gaminwench » Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:51 pm

trilobyte wrote: The prophecies of doom were better last year
stolen.
"the prophecies of doom were better last year" trilo

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Eric
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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by Eric » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:21 am

kiboy wrote:I think the very early early days of BM wouldn't have suited my taste any more than what is likely coming. My sweet spot was around 2000 to 2004.
I'm sorry, but didn't you say it's been at least a decade since you've attended? How do you know that right now isn't your sweet spot, and how do you know what is likely coming? Because doom-sayers on the internet say it? If the internet spoke truth we'd all be dead of ebola (or SARS, or something brought by foreigners) by now. I see some peoples posts & don't even recognize the event they were at, and it's the same year - some of them were even in my neighborhood. Hell, I don't even have the same Burn as the people in the same camp with me - no two people burn alike, ever. You want to set yourself up for sucky Burns, go right ahead, but it sure isn't the tack I would take.
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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by kiboy » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:28 am

Eric wrote:
kiboy wrote:I think the very early early days of BM wouldn't have suited my taste any more than what is likely coming. My sweet spot was around 2000 to 2004.
I'm sorry, but didn't you say it's been at least a decade since you've attended? How do you know that right now isn't your sweet spot, and how do you know what is likely coming? Because doom-sayers on the internet say it? If the internet spoke truth we'd all be dead of ebola (or SARS, or something brought by foreigners) by now. I see some peoples posts & don't even recognize the event they were at, and it's the same year - some of them were even in my neighborhood. Hell, I don't even have the same Burn as the people in the same camp with me - no two people burn alike, ever. You want to set yourself up for sucky Burns, go right ahead, but it sure isn't the tack I would take.
Well of course I don't know but I don't really know how it would have been for me in the early days either. I only know what I've read about that time. So I'm speculating on the future of Burning Man. Not really based solely on the dispute around it now but my life of experience with watching things change around me. I'll be honest here. I'm a product of my times. As I age it's harder to play there and it's hard not to have some nostalgia for the past. Plus I had just discovered BM and there is little to compare with a new romance for it's intensity and the fact I was still in my physical prime. That all plays into this speculation. So I know I might be wrong in my speculations but as far as I know we all speculate anyway. I plan on having a great time next year or I won't be going.

Your point is well taken though and I'm going to try and remember your words as I watch the debates rage here. I know much of what you say is true because I've been reading all the old issues of Piss Clear and they were bitching about all this shit back then too. But I also know I agree with a lot of what they were bitching about. That's all shit I didn't have a real clue about when I was going in those early days. I didn't know anything about the political dramas surrounding the Man to any serious degree until I joined up here. So now I'm thinking on all of it and there is areas of concern I agree with or think might come to pass. The ignorance of those first years was blissful and so make it a sweet spot in my mind. But you're right I could be totally wrong. In fact I said in another post here that I was planning on this being my best burn because I know exactly why I'm going now and I think I know how to find what I want to get out of it. But that's almost beside the points of what is happening in the bigger picture of BM. It might be falling apart around me while I'm having a good time. Kind of like fiddling on the roof as Rome burns. I feel that way about human culture in general these days. I think we're headed for the cliff but I could be totally wrong and in a thousand years humans will be Burning on the off world colonies.

Don't believe everything you think.

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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by Eric » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:52 am

kiboy wrote:I know much of what you say is true because I've been reading all the old issues of Piss Clear and they were bitching about all this shit back then too. But I also know I agree with a lot of what they were bitching about.
I'm one of "they" - I've camped with Piss Clear (and now it's successor, BRC Weekly) every year I've gone. You might want to read Adrian's editorial from this year to get an updated perspective (it's on page two of the link). :D
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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by Aurelia » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:42 am

Hey !
I am an original burner

I think it is exactly true that the burn will get more complex and intricately particular...whatever

Kiboy, I think you would have loved it then and still will whenever you go again

Just protect yourself from only listening to the static.

xoA.

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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by kiboy » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:58 am

aserendipity wrote:Hey !
I am an original burner

I think it is exactly true that the burn will get more complex and intricately particular...whatever

Kiboy, I think you would have loved it then and still will whenever you go again

Just protect yourself from only listening to the static.

xoA.
Yes agree, and I don't only listen to static. But I'm eclectic in my taste and so I listen to everything. I've had my earful on the political end. I know what's going on and I'm not hearing anything new now anyway. In other words I'm fairly much up to speed. I've shared my view that P&Ps aren't really a problem for me unless, like any camp on the playa they really ignore the culture of the place. OK done for now.

My other goal is to see what the Newbs are all thinking about. A lot of people may think that so many new virgins is not good either but not me. I was hoping to hear from some of them here but it's been a trickle so far. I'm hoping more show or feel comfortable enough to join in.

Don't believe everything you think.

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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by Elderberry » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:38 am

It's kind of ironic. When I was new, I didn't know or care aout the politics. I had a great time. I'm starting to feel the same way these days whether it be BM politics or the countries politics, and I'm trying hard to not let either of them spoil my enjoyment of life. Besides vote, there's not much else that can be done to change the course of either. Everybody bitches, hardly anybody votes, and nobody cares near enough to actually write their representatives, let alone actually go out and physically get involved.

No virgin that goes will ever be effected nor concerned about the politics. They will just have a great time (or not) because BM was what it was when they attended. If they like it, they return. If they don't they don't. Shouldn't that really be the end of the story?
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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by unjonharley » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:47 am

Seems like many people asked... What has change about Burning Man...
After this years Burn I can only ansewer with.. Burning Man is bigger this year than ever.. Main complaint, Didn't get to see it all.. Same complaint as 20001.
I'm the contraptioneer your mother warned you about.

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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by Elderberry » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:52 am

unjonharley wrote:Seems like many people asked... What has change about Burning Man...
After this years Burn I can only ansewer with.. Burning Man is bigger this year than ever.. Main complaint, Didn't get to see it all.. Same complaint as 20001.
Now there's a complaint I can agree with!
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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by Fan C » Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:32 am

Who would have ever thought something would change over a twenty year span? I know I'm exactly the same now as I was in 1986.

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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by Aurelia » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:33 pm

Cool retort Fan c,

But I learned about the concept of "just press restart " from one of my not sons
I press restart assiduously

xoA.

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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by kiboy » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:37 pm

Eric wrote:
kiboy wrote:I know much of what you say is true because I've been reading all the old issues of Piss Clear and they were bitching about all this shit back then too. But I also know I agree with a lot of what they were bitching about.
I'm one of "they" - I've camped with Piss Clear (and now it's successor, BRC Weekly) every year I've gone. You might want to read Adrian's editorial from this year to get an updated perspective (it's on page two of the link). :D
Thanks for that link, I keep the 13 years of Piss Clear book on my nightstand. I can fall peacefully asleep reading a couple of pages a night and know that once all was well in the world. :P

"I’m a Post-Jaded Burner" :D I think this is a good mantra. I did need an update into the political landscape though and I've had a one month crash course and I'm pretty much over it. Doesn't mean I won't have an opinion but I'm not taking this too seriously, so I can get back to my goal of making a couple of good connections to meet on the playa. I do miss the name Piss Clear though. But that's just more nostalgia for my "sweet spot" years. Image

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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by Lonesomebri » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:37 pm

"Well I guess everything dies, baby that's a fact.
But maybe everything that dies someday comes back.
Put your makeup on, fix your hair up pretty
and meet me tonight in Atlantic City"
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Camp THREAT: Dominating the porta potties 4 years running.
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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by socks2 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:33 pm

For those who have forgotten

The 10 Principles
Our community's ethos is built on the values reflected in the 10 principles. Burning man is understood not as a event, but
as referring to a way of life lived consistently with these 10 principles. They are meant to be taken as a whole, as a set
of commonly understood values that have arisen out of the history of the burning man experience.

Radical inclusion Communal effort
Gifting Civic Responsibility
Decommodification leaving no trace
Radical self-reliance Participation
Radical self-expression Immediacy

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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by kiboy » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:53 pm

socks2 wrote:For those who have forgotten

The 10 Principles
Our community's ethos is built on the values reflected in the 10 principles. Burning man is understood not as a event, but
as referring to a way of life lived consistently with these 10 principles. They are meant to be taken as a whole, as a set
of commonly understood values that have arisen out of the history of the burning man experience.

Radical inclusion Communal effort
Gifting Civic Responsibility
Decommodification leaving no trace
Radical self-reliance Participation
Radical self-expression Immediacy
What has become very apparent to me is these principles are interpreted slightly differently by each individual.

Don't believe everything you think.

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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by Eric » Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:34 am

socks2 wrote:For those who have forgotten

The 10 Principles
Our community's ethos is built on the values reflected in the 10 principles. Burning man is understood not as a event, but
as referring to a way of life lived consistently with these 10 principles. They are meant to be taken as a whole, as a set
of commonly understood values that have arisen out of the history of the burning man experience.

Radical inclusion Communal effort
Gifting Civic Responsibility
Decommodification leaving no trace
Radical self-reliance Participation
Radical self-expression Immediacy
They are also Principles, not the Law of God
Burning Man Page on the Ten Principles wrote:Burning Man Founder Larry Harvey wrote the Ten Principles in 2004 as guidelines for the newly-formed Regionals Network. They were crafted not as a dictate of how people should be and act, but as a reflection of the community's ethos and culture as it had organically developed since the event's inception.
emphasis mine
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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by socks2 » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:30 pm

Eric, that's funny the words I wrote were found on the back of Burning man survival guide 2013.
By your logic its ok to leave trash anywhere you want or do open vending because
its not a dictate but a mere suggestion on how to act.
The plug and play camps have their walls and some have security just like the gated communities they live in.
So they recreate it on the playa but just like at home keeping most people out
The very fact those camps had enough tickets for their customers and help is astounding.
One would hope these plug and play camps did not get the dedicated sale tickets but its hard to
imagine how they got them if not. Hell they even got good placement and EA to set up
I am not saying its the end but something is not right

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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:28 pm

socks2 wrote:By your logic its ok to leave trash anywhere you want or do open vending because
its not a dictate but a mere suggestion on how to act.
Ah, but it is a dictate from the BLM. I haven't looked in a couple of years, but when I did, the only reference to vendors on BLM land that google could find was Imperial Sand Dunes, and in that case, you had to leave the land and clean down your cart every five days. So I inferred that the only vending was food. BLM simply doesn't do that, it's mostly about cattle and mineral rights. And Eric, I'm sure, knows that if we don't pass inspection, there wouldn't be a permit the following years. So in both cases, the principles you selected, weren't just good ideas, but were (essentially) the law.
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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:39 am

REPENT, SINNERS, REPENT !!!



i know, i know...... you're too fucking Lazy...


i'll do you it for it...


i'll burn for 7 days on a pillar, so you can burn our sacred cow and our 10 principles.


maybe i'll come down to go upset the buddhists at the temple, maybe not. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Frida Be You & Me

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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by Roberto Dobbisano » Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:43 am

wait....you're doing a performance art piece?








oh fuck.......the OP is right....stick a fork in that shit, it's done...
"10 principles? you cant HANDLE the 10 principles..."

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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by H.G.Crosby » Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:47 am

burn the fourth wall






[media]
Once I noticed I was on fire, I decided to relax and enjoy the fall™

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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by Aurelia » Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:09 am

Great way to go !

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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by mdmf007 » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:15 pm

Savannah wrote:
This year's Burn was actually my best
I second that! Woot!!!! I had such a goodtime drinking Lemon Liqueur that I went into the future. :oops:
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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by DoctorIknow » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:04 am

Eric wrote:....I've camped with Piss Clear (and now it's successor, BRC Weekly) every year I've gone. You might want to read Adrian's editorial from this year to get an updated perspective (it's on page two of the link). :D
I've been tossing stuff (moving) and came across a FedEx "pac" with all 2007 BM publication stuff in it. Opened it up and the smell of playa dust slowly eating away at the 2007 Piss Clears made me want to read them all before I, probably, just put them back and store them another seven years, at which time they may be disintegrated moop.

Adrian and the Piss Clear writers were the brilliant voices of frustration, sarcasm, truth and anger about exactly what we're talking about now with Plug/Play camps, the Org, EDM stuff (was it even called EDM in 2007?).

Note to self: buy the book they published.

Consulting the I-Ching can produce two distinct "readings."
-----The Developing Situation
-----The Final Solution

The Piss Clear journey is both:
"Developing Situation" : the bellwether, the harbinger, the prophet, the messenger about what was happening to BM, and here we are in 2014, with many of us furious about exactly what Piss Clear was bringing to our knowledge for years. In 2007, we might have read Issue #34, 2007: "So Long and Thanks for All the Drugs" at "The Dirty Cup" (Center Camp in Piss Clear Playa Lingo) and had a smile on our face, finished the coffee, and gotten back on the playa for our burn, rapidly forgetting what we read as we walk/bike from shiny thing to shiny thing,,,,but in 2014, Adrian is back, "post-jaded" with:
"The Final Solution" : in this case BurningMan 3.0, which you'll have to read about here on page 2: http://brcweekly.com/BRCWeekly2014_ext.pdf

Thank you Adrian, and Eric too as you seem to have been a part of Piss Clear, and all others making those newsprints that say more about BM than any lame movie, youtube video, or "news" coming out of the Org or press.

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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by Aurelia » Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:40 pm

YEAH !

Thank goodness I brought home my copy

xoA.

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Re: Beginning of the end?

Post by alt12 » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:32 am

Whoops, didn't see that someone had already posted the same reference to Adrian's Black Rock Weekly (formerly Piss Clear) article "When did Burning Man get so douchey." http://www.brcweekly.com/BRCWeekly2014_ext.pdf

Yes, agree 100% with her. Burning Man has become more douchey AND we are in Burning Man 3.0, the shark-jumping stage.

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