How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

[Elderberry]

Here is an explanation of how PnP Casio's get placed from the Burning Man blog.

http://blog.burningman.com/2014/10/buil ... et-placed/

[Ratty]

Check the thread 'Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices'. You will find this discussion. (Such as it is). I don't expect to actually learn anything from the Borg. Ms. Kristen Berg did her best to write an article without revealing the facts and figures. She also didn't tell us the special courtesies accorded these camps.

This thread is dead unless an organizer from a large concern gets on here and enlightens us.

[Jackass]

Maybe next time they can address: WHY plug n play camps get placed.

How they get placed is simple to answer. Someone allotted them space and put their name on it and may have walked them out to show them where it was.

Oh yeah, they had a roundtable meeting where they made vague, optional suggestions to the heads of PnPs too....

[pink]

You mean a 'producer' of one of the camps.

[Lonesomebri]

From the blog-
"Citizens of Black Rock City – everyone is talking about Turnkey camps and the Placement team wants you to know: we hear you! You’re speaking up on social media, talking at parties, doing deep dives at regional events. We’ve received more than 400 post-event emails and hundreds of comments through the Feedback form."

Wonder what aspect of Turnkey camps everyone was talking about? How chill they are? How radical inclusion demands they be placed? Wonder what the Citizen feedback was, the linked blog is just more cover.

And I would add, Thanks to all you glorious trouble making, rabble rousing, whining, anti-commercialization, build your burn, not sitting silent while the big boys figure it all out, and their lackeys deny there is a problem, to those true Citizens of Black Rock City who saw a problem, identified it, and now continue to not be quite, thank you, thank you, thank you. Fight the good fight.

Join the BRCCP, the only true revolutionary Turnkey camp on the playa today, membership has it's privileges; cash, checks, credit cards, pharmaceuticals accepted

[Jovankat]

Maybe next time they can address: WHY plug n play camps get placed.

To be fair there was this bit on the WHY

We found it is the best interest of the broader BRC community if we do place them. The placement process starts the relationship, sets expectations about MOOP and accountability and helps us with density issues. Placement knows how large a footprint a camp needs and we can help with the guesswork of how big. The placement process also intends to inspire our Turnkey camp friends to become more like our beloved Theme Camps who have experience balancing public space with private living, and with using interactions to inspire participation...

It's just not really clear how they found this to be in the best interest of the community. A few examples of how not placing turnkeys has been bad for the community might have been useful.

Starting a relationship and setting expectations is great, what happens as the relationship progresses? What if expectations are not met? Some examples here about the effects these relationships have had and how they've grown could in interesting.

You know what else helps with working how much space a camp needs? Researching it yourself. Get involved in discussions on ePlaya/Reddit, measure the vehicles and structures you're taking and then draw a plan. Now you know how much space you need. Any information beyond that that needs to come from the BMOrg should be readily available to anyone and everyone.

Does the placement process really inspire turnkey camps to become more interactive and become theme camps? I'd like to hear some examples of this. Do turnkeys really naturally get more interactive across the years? And even if they did surely it's the experience of the event itself that does that not the process of applying for and getting a plot of land. And are there any incentives or disincentives to help this process? If a turnkey camp doesn't get more interactive over a couple of years will they stop getting placement? Maybe they should.

So yeah, it does address the why. Just not well enough I don't think.

[Popeye]

We found it is the best interest of the broader BRC community....

Paternalistic Bull Shit

[Jackass]

Their explanation is rather weak. Wrapping it all up in feelgood, so it doesn't burn so bad.

[Jackass]

Does the placement process really inspire turnkey camps to become more interactive and become theme camps? I'd like to hear some examples of this. Do turnkeys really naturally get more interactive across the years?

For profit PnPs don't have to be interactive at all, that's not what they are there for

[Roberto Dobbisano]

im reminded of colin powell's speech to the UN.


nice guy......bad speech.

[Roberto Dobbisano]

evidently the BMORG has hired morbo to head up the PR dept.

[media]

[H.G.Crosby]

THIS IS NOT ABOUT VIRGINS WILL....a case of classic misdirection

[Corvus]

I think the members of the board have forgotten that Black Rock City doesn't belong to them any more than my default world city belongs to the mayor and city council -- it belongs to its citizens. If my city council announced for example that it had changed the zoning so a casino could be plunked down in the middle of a residential neighborhood, "But it's okay; we got extra fees from the developers," we would be outraged. If it turned out one of the council members owned the casino . . . well tar and feathers would not be out of the question.

I rather like the term Commodification Camp, a camp with the purpose of profiting the camp's organizer. After all, I belong a camp many would consider PnP. There about 200 campers every year and we pay $150 for the privelege in exchange for a lot of stuff -- shade, a kitchen, and a genny among others -- brought to the playa for us. After expenses there's generally a couple hundred in profits which gets carried over to the next year in anticipation of possible extra expenses. Our poor ol' generator may need to be replaced next year. We do interact with the city. Every day we have at least one event for public participation, most days two or three. If the wall-o-RVs camps did that, there'd be a lot less umbrage.

Over the years I've commented in the blogs sticking up for Burning Man in general and the BORG in particular when the whiners and sneerers post comments. I don't think I'll be doing that any more. I'd bet John Law is laughing his ass off.

[some seeing eye]

There has been a lot of controversy... so we are going to give a complete explanation...

Got that?

[FIGJAM]

Burners ALWAYS know where the pee is!!!!!!!!!!

[Dr. Pyro]

Am I about the only one on this board who has really no problem whatsoever with Plug n Play camps?

[Ratty]

Nope. The line forms behind Dr P. I'm fine with the camps. I don't go to Orgy camps or rap music camps etc... It's so easy to ignore things out there. I just want their tickets to be put back into the ticket pool. I have no guarantee of a ticket. All those P&P camps including their support staff. How many tickets are sold to those companies directly? 1,000...2,000... Borg will never say. Other than that little turd in the pudding, I'm fine with them being there. They can watch satellite TV In air conditioned yurts and drink mojitos all day.

[Elderberry]

For profit PnPs don't have to be interactive at all, that's not what they are there for

I think you hit on the problem and the solution.

[Elderberry]

Am I about the only one on this board who has really no problem whatsoever with Plug n Play camps?

No.

[Elderberry]

I just want their tickets to be put back into the ticket pool.

Dear Kristen Berg, We would like to know how these camps get tickets. We, (the ordinary garden variety burner), have to miss a day of work and sit at our computer praying and cursing alternately. Ditto for the registration for step tickets. Do you really guarantee these tickets to the P&Ps? How else would they do business? THAT is my biggest resentment. And believe me I'm not alone. Your blog didn't tell us any information about this. Are the rich able to simply pay the price and come to the party. Exactly how many tickets go to P&P camps. Are those people entitled to attend more than a guy that jumps through the hoops and still doesn't get a ticket? Please enlighten us. I would love to hear that those camps buy their tickets through the pre sale, main sale, step, craig's list at face value and private parties. Thank you in advance for your timely reply.

This was the one thing that article didn't address or even try explain--exactly what the ticketing procedure was for Turn Keys.

[Simon of the Playa]

Am I about the only one on this board who has really no problem whatsoever with Plug n Play camps?

No.

yeah, we know john....

[Elderberry]

[trilobyte]

You're not alone, Dr. Pyro. The more thought I give to the idea of turnkey operations, the less bothered I am about the amenities and whatnot I've known AnswerGirl for years and know something of the placement process, and like seeing it explained in some detail. I also liked knowing that the bona fide turnkey operations (as opposed to theme camps that just have posh amenities) are not being placed within theme camp space, the numbers are minimal, and that an effort is being made to address the issue of acculturation. To me, that's the real challenge.

I don't care that rich people go to Burning Man (they've been going for longer than I have), I don't even care that they have people helping them get their shit together (paid or unpaid). Hell, I never would have made it to the event in my first year if other people hadn't helped me. Veteran burners have been making money sewing and selling fur coats and all kinds of other stuff, yet we don't break out the torches and pitchforks if someone's got a piece of playawear that they paid for (as opposed to made themselves). Care should be taken with regards to logos and branding and the commerce taking place on the playa, just like all those other burn-related things that people pay for.. but yeah.

Acculturation is the challenge - I care that the people involved in these camps may be coming away with only a spectator experience. Part of me cares on their behalf - because if that's the experience you have, holy fuck you are seriously missing out! And part of me cares for selfish reasons - no spectators means that everything is contributing something to the cacaphonous symphony, and the result is more nonsense and interaction and fun. As I thought about that, I realized that acculturation is a challenge for every camp (regardless of budgets or income levels of the campmates). People who come and camp solo, or who join up with a minimalist camp, or sign up for some big camp where all they need is a few hundred bucks and put in a couple hours MOOPing and other than that it's a week of ridiculous partying (ie being a spectator). That's an issue for all income levels. Like I said before, I like that there's an effort being made to address the issue of acculturation. If anything, I'd like to see more of that - when I first started participating the rally cry of "no spectators!" was bigger and louder than it is today. I'm thinking about ways I can affect change within my own camp, and things we can do as a community...

Ratty/Elderberry - my understanding is that turnkey camps are not given any ticket allotments, and do not participate in the directed group sale. The forum AnswerGirl mentioned took place last summer, long after the ticket sales and after the placed camp questionnaire deadline. Participants did not receive any special amenities, other than probably having their camps visited a few times throughout the week by various Burning Man staffers who wanted to see the turnkey operations (and the fruits of their acculturation efforts) firsthand.

[unjonharley]

Odds are if a turn-key burner liked TTITD they will return with there own camp..

[Roberto Dobbisano]

my understanding is that turnkey camps are not given any ticket allotments, and do not participate in the directed group sale. The forum AnswerGirl mentioned took place last summer, long after the ticket sales and after the placed camp questionnaire deadline. Participants did not receive any special amenities,

[666isMONEY]

Tickets, White Ocean, 2014



Source:

[Just_Joe]

I'm trying to cut the BMORG some slack.
The Burning Man Project mission is to bring Burning Man to the world.
In attempt to do that, the founders probably decided that being in bed with venture capitalists, "movers and shakers", etc would be a good move.
Allocating tickets to the "more important" people may have been an experiment. If so, it failed and is now coming back to bite them on the ass.
What has emerged from the community is a feeling of betrayal and it needs to be addressed.
The community brings the Art, brings the volunteerism, brings the Theme Camps, brings the Mutant Vehicles. The community *is* Burning Man.

[Lonesomebri]

No doubt.
The closer you stand with the Bmorg, the less of a problem you have with the for-profit Commodification camps that the Bmorg approves.
The closer you stand with the Citizens of Black Rock City, well, I think the blog mentions something about that............

[unjonharley]

I'm trying to cut the BMORG some slack.
The Burning Man Project mission is to bring Burning Man to the world.
In attempt to do that, the founders probably decided that being in bed with venture capitalists, "movers and shakers", etc would be a good move.
Allocating tickets to the "more important" people may have been an experiment. If so, it failed and is now coming back to bite them on the ass.
What has emerged from the community is a feeling of betrayal and it needs to be addressed.
The community brings the Art, brings the volunteerism, brings the Theme Camps, brings the Mutant Vehicles. The community *is* Burning Man.

So, an open question to Burners?????

Are there burners that plan to bring less to Burning Man if turn-key continues as it is?????

[Lonesomebri]

I'm trying to cut the BMORG some slack.
The Burning Man Project mission is to bring Burning Man to the world.
In attempt to do that, the founders probably decided that being in bed with venture capitalists, "movers and shakers", etc would be a good move.
Allocating tickets to the "more important" people may have been an experiment. If so, it failed and is now coming back to bite them on the ass.
What has emerged from the community is a feeling of betrayal and it needs to be addressed.
The community brings the Art, brings the volunteerism, brings the Theme Camps, brings the Mutant Vehicles. The community *is* Burning Man.

So, an open question to Burners?????

Are there burners that plan to bring less to Burning Man if turn-key continues as it is?????

Absolutely, the Burners who don't get a ticket because the spread of for-profit camps has not been checked, and the tickets go to non-participants who contribute nothing.
As for me, if I manage to get a couple tickets away from the commercial interests, I plan to bring more, enough to support one free Sherpa.